Sin Workshop

FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis
FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis Posts: 6 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Assassin
Ok, so I made a claw barb alt because I knew I could level a claw barb faster (I was able to get 18 different fc squads back to back in a single day one time - gotta love how people love barbs) and solo farm the easier TT bosses with it to get mats for tt99 gear.

Now, almost 8 months later, I FINALLY got my sin alt to 99. Here's my current trash bin recycled gear from my barb - with pangu tome which pwcalc doesn't seem to want to include:

With TT80 Daggers:

http://pwcalc.com/a57f1c5fcdf8d54f

With Deicides:

http://pwcalc.com/5be7e1f507565edb

The +12 vit add on the helm is for the +5 and +7 vit adds I have engraved onto my rings.

I have a few questions (please keep in mind I want to spend as little as possible but still be moderately effective):

1. Which do you think would be easier to solo FC with to get me to 100? Claws or Daggers?

2. Should I replace citrines in wrist, boots and cape with g9 citrines or g9 garnets? Vit stones are tooooo pricey.

3. Should I stat any vitality?

4. With the cheap reset notes now, should I stat some dex to strength to increase damage with the claws, even if I have to reset back eventually after I can farm nirvana daggers or rank 8 rep? Any sins actually use claws with 200+ strength and are happy with it? Can a sin with strength and claws @ 5.0 aps out DD a claw barb 4.0 with claws? Should I just keep farming on my barb?

5. If I go nirvana daggers, do I even need rank 8 rep? I figure I can shard my gear pretty well for the 80-100m rank 8 will cost me to make up for the defense loss from staying with the lvl 60 (b:chuckle) interval chest.

I am hoping to get here eventually:

http://pwcalc.com/75d4409a8d615560

I just want to try and farm as much of this as I can, as best I can, with what I have already.

Any estimate of the cost (in coins) to get there from where I am now?
Post edited by FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis on

Comments

  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    1. Which do you think would be easier to solo FC with to get me to 100? Claws or Daggers?

    Either will work.
    2. Should I replace citrines in wrist, boots and cape with g9 citrines or g9 garnets? Vit stones are tooooo pricey.

    Depends. Are you planning on getting higher grade shards eventually? If yes, then don't get G9s.
    3. Should I stat any vitality?

    No.
    4. With the cheap reset notes now, should I stat some dex to strength to increase damage with the claws, even if I have to reset back eventually after I can farm nirvana daggers or rank 8 rep? Any sins actually use claws with 200+ strength and are happy with it? Can a sin with strength and claws @ 5.0 aps out DD a claw barb 4.0 with claws? Should I just keep farming on my barb?

    A clawsin is a waste of time. A clawbarb works mostly because you got Poison Fang and Strength of Titans to boost your damage to a level that is close to a BM's. Assassins don't have any such skills.
    5. If I go nirvana daggers, do I even need rank 8 rep? I figure I can shard my gear pretty well for the 80-100m rank 8 will cost me to make up for the defense loss from staying with the lvl 60 (b:chuckle) interval chest.

    Let me just put it this way: If you go ahead and get G13 Nirvana daggers and keep the Rank 4 armor, you're an idiot. Dumbest move ever.

    Granted, you will be 5 aps, but you won't be getting any squads with such craptastic armor, as you'll be getting aggro all over the place and dying instantly.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    *sigh*

    So stay on my barb then for farming? I was kinda hoping for something new. And chasing down bloodpaint is such a pain - you guys are always invisible, ya know?



    I added this above while you were typing I guess, but any thoughts?

    I am hoping to get here eventually:

    http://pwcalc.com/75d4409a8d615560

    I just want to try and farm as much of this as I can, as best I can, with what I have already.

    Any estimate of the cost (in coins) to get there from where I am now?
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    5. If I go nirvana daggers, do I even need rank 8 rep? I figure I can shard my gear pretty well for the 80-100m rank 8 will cost me to make up for the defense loss from staying with the lvl 60 (b:chuckle) interval chest.
    IMO, you have this backwards. If you get rank8, do you even need g13 daggers?

    With the gear you have, if you get rank8, which would give you more interval in the top, and a cheap set of hard hitting daggers, you could be hitting 3.33APS right there for a mere 80mil (which is more than enough for permasparking on a sin)
    Take this new found damage dealing and farm out cannys for the g15 legs and now you're 4APS-sparked rank8. Beautiful.
  • Massad - Harshlands
    Massad - Harshlands Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    *sigh*

    So stay on my barb then for farming? I was kinda hoping for something new. And chasing down bloodpaint is such a pain - you guys are always invisible, ya know?



    I added this above while you were typing I guess, but any thoughts?

    I am hoping to get here eventually:

    http://pwcalc.com/75d4409a8d615560

    I just want to try and farm as much of this as I can, as best I can, with what I have already.

    Any estimate of the cost (in coins) to get there from where I am now?




    Not bad.... I am going with a different route myself

    Many many many people on here will criticize you for your choice in vit... Me personally I love it and every 10 lvls people tell me it will be worthless and every 10 lvls I end up loving it even more when I survive more than they can. My advice is have reset notes handy and try a few things to see what you like. There are more than one way to skin a cat after all.

    http://pwcalc.com/b19be6760e6f74be <=== Where my sin is now

    Buying up socket stones and DoTs now to put into the current gear as well as some I have available already in bank.


    http://pwcalc.com/8693a50e73fb57e7 <=== and what I am am building it up to

    Final note on the builds... They are not finalized and are subject to change especially now with the recast outb:shocked


    Also can anyone tell me why Tomes are no longer showing up on the calc?b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Other names include but not limited to LOKl_ _ClRCE_, _AnGeal_
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Massad - Harshlands wrote: »
    Also can anyone tell me why Tomes are no longer showing up on the calc?b:surrender
    Idk, thats new...coz they were working very recently when I was doing some building yesterday or the day before, I'm pretty sure.
  • FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    IMO, you have this backwards. If you get rank8, do you even need g13 daggers?

    ***************
    Take this new found damage dealing and farm out cannys for the g15 legs and now you're 4APS-sparked rank8. Beautiful.

    I guess, but maybe this helps frame my delemma.

    Why would I get rank 8 and nirvana pants, if I could get nirvy daggers for about the same cost and have 5 aps with nirvy daggers instead of 4 aps with rank 8? All at a cost of only a little defense (rank IV top) which, since I don't think im going to do more than +5 or +6 the weapon anyway, I doubt I'll be tanking in most squads.

    Massad - Harshlands wrote: »
    .... I .......myself......Me personally I .........me ............I ............I ............My ........my ...........I .........I

    Also can anyone tell me why Tomes are no longer showing up on the calc?b:surrender

    stop hijacking my thread!!!!!!!!!!b:angry
  • Massad - Harshlands
    Massad - Harshlands Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »



    stop hijacking my thread!!!!!!!!!!b:angry

    Ones personal opinion to a question stated can only be answered using ones own personal historical experience... Unless you asked the questions not really looking for an answer in which case none of us would answer you in any way shape or form.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Other names include but not limited to LOKl_ _ClRCE_, _AnGeal_
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    1. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1193781 < Thread where sins talked about being deicide sins. There's about 3 more threads like this in the first few pages but here is the jist of Deicide sins. You need to stat 146 strength to use deicides. Compared to TT80 H&Ts you will have lower dd unsparked but only slightly higher DD sparked (depending on deicide refines), so you will switch them constantly based on your needs. At level 100 when you get your next level daggers you will have to pay for a restat down to whatever your current helm's strength req. Deicides are no match for daggers above H&T (Rank, G13, Hitman's). So it's effective for 5 levels but will cost you a couple mil to restat out. Your choice.

    2. Depends when you think you can save for better gems. If G9 are your endgame, sure. If you expect to put 30 mil gems in later, why throw away 3 mil now for 22 more hp?

    3. Adding to vitality will lower your survivability. You don't get much hp from a vit point and instead you have weaker bloodpaint heals because you didn't stat it for dexterity.

    4. I'd guess a sin with 5.0 claws and tons of strength would DD about equal to a barb with 4.0 when they are both sparked. A barb has his buffs and more strength, a sin has a slightly higher crit rate+wolf emblem and triple spark is regular attack+ 5 x weapon damage so strength isn't as important when triple sparked. Unsparked the clawbarb would way out DD. The point is a 5 aps sin should out DD a 5 aps barb by 40-60%, not be equal.

    5. 4.0 Rank 8 daggers should out dd 5.0 Nirvana daggers. Especially at lower refines. The benefit of vana daggers is at 5.0 is even though they don't hit as hard as rank 8 its easier to maintain a permaspark while using other skills and have spare chi. Also, it sounds weird but small paint heals 5 times a second helps you survive better than larger paint heals 4 times a second even though we are talking about heals .05 seconds apart, lol.

    Getting Rank 8 means you get a ring that gives you 4% crit, 180 hp, +125 attack. You get -.1 armor that refines at G12 that adds to dex. You get temporary pants that refine at G12 and have dex adds. And you get Rank 8 daggers that can out DD G13 at low refines. Your ring and your top are endgame, so you can refine and shard them early. Your dagger can even be endgame. So why would you pick to spend 185 mil on G13 daggers instead of 85 mil on rank 8 and get an equal dagger, better top, pants, and a ring that would all way increase survivability? Take the 100 mil difference and shard/refine your gear.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Khiren - Lost City
    Khiren - Lost City Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    *sigh*

    So stay on my barb then for farming? I was kinda hoping for something new. And chasing down bloodpaint is such a pain - you guys are always invisible, ya know?



    I added this above while you were typing I guess, but any thoughts?

    I am hoping to get here eventually:

    http://pwcalc.com/75d4409a8d615560

    I just want to try and farm as much of this as I can, as best I can, with what I have already.

    Any estimate of the cost (in coins) to get there from where I am now?

    Why does the r8 top in this post have -.15 int? b:puzzledb:puzzled
  • Defect - Raging Tide
    Defect - Raging Tide Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

    3. Adding to vitality will lower your survivability. You don't get much hp from a vit point and instead you have weaker bloodpaint heals because you didn't stat it for dexterity.

    I'll have to disagree with this one. With my sin I did an experimental tank build, adding 1 vit, 1 str, and 3 dex every levels until my vit stat reached 66. Though, a lot of my wiser and more experienced friends told me I made a mistake, I was able to not get 1 hit KO'd while doing Nirvy when I stole aggro and I was able to solo FC at around 93.

    Eventually restat to full dex for endgame b:surrender
    102(100RB1tr) Sage Sin ~ 100 Demon BM ~ 96 Sage Cleric ~ 90 Demon Archer ~ 87 Veno ~ 86 Pure Axe BM ~ 83 Barb ~ 82 Seeker ~ 81 Mystic ~ 86 Wizzie ~ 84 Psychic
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    I guess, but maybe this helps frame my delemma.

    Why would I get rank 8 and nirvana pants, if I could get nirvy daggers for about the same cost and have 5 aps with nirvy daggers instead of 4 aps with rank 8? All at a cost of only a little defense (rank IV top) which, since I don't think im going to do more than +5 or +6 the weapon anyway, I doubt I'll be tanking in most squads.
    I was going to reply....but Sakubatou pretty much covered everything I would have said in this part of his post :
    5. 4.0 Rank 8 daggers should out dd 5.0 Nirvana daggers. Especially at lower refines. The benefit of vana daggers is at 5.0 is even though they don't hit as hard as rank 8 its easier to maintain a permaspark while using other skills and have spare chi. Also, it sounds weird but small paint heals 5 times a second helps you survive better than larger paint heals 4 times a second even though we are talking about heals .05 seconds apart, lol.

    Getting Rank 8 means you get a ring that gives you 4% crit, 180 hp, +125 attack. You get -.1 armor that refines at G12 that adds to dex. You get temporary pants that refine at G12 and have dex adds. And you get Rank 8 daggers that can out DD G13 at low refines. Your ring and your top are endgame, so you can refine and shard them early. Your dagger can even be endgame. So why would you pick to spend 185 mil on G13 daggers instead of 85 mil on rank 8 and get an equal dagger, better top, pants, and a ring that would all way increase survivability? Take the 100 mil difference and shard/refine your gear.

    it's your choice ofc, but APS does not equal DPS and it seems a waste to spend 185mil on daggers that you only want to refine to +4 or 5 anyway, in which case rank8's would out-DD anyway even at lower APS, when that coin could be put into alot more end game gear as Sakubatou pointed out.
  • FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Getting Rank 8 means you get a ring that gives you 4% crit, 180 hp, +125 attack. You get -.1 armor that refines at G12 that adds to dex. You get temporary pants that refine at G12 and have dex adds. And you get Rank 8 daggers that can out DD G13 at low refines. Your ring and your top are endgame, so you can refine and shard them early. Your dagger can even be endgame. So why would you pick to spend 185 mil on G13 daggers instead of 85 mil on rank 8 and get an equal dagger, better top, pants, and a ring that would all way increase survivability? Take the 100 mil difference and shard/refine your gear.

    Yea, this kinda convinced me, thanks. Its just that sooooo many sins are walking around with those nirvana daggers, I kinda don't get why if they are roughly equivalent.
    Khiren - Lost City wrote: »
    Why does the r8 top in this post have -.15 int? b:puzzledb:puzzled

    Because pwi isn't letting me put the tome on, so I put the interval I have from my tome on the chest.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Defect - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I'll have to disagree with this one. With my sin I did an experimental tank build, adding 1 vit, 1 str, and 3 dex every levels until my vit stat reached 66. Though, a lot of my wiser and more experienced friends told me I made a mistake, I was able to not get 1 hit KO'd while doing Nirvy when I stole aggro and I was able to solo FC at around 93.

    Eventually restat to full dex for endgame b:surrender

    Vitality is useful prior to your damage being able to heal you purely on bloodpaint (let's say under level 75) and its important to be able to take at least a few hits for when you are unable to reach a mob, are channeling a skill, or are between sparks. However, its more practical to just refine your gear than to place stats into vitality knowing you'll need to pull them out and restat later. And I think most sins can solo FCC except for the second boss starting at level 89, at least my pure dex, 3 vit sin was. It's just not worth it until you have 99+ gear for -int and 100+ daggers for speed.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    Yea, this kinda convinced me, thanks. Its just that sooooo many sins are walking around with those nirvana daggers, I kinda don't get why if they are roughly equivalent.

    There are 3 reasons for that :
    - First would be all those who got G13 before rank8 became cheap by that sudden sale(s). At that time, G13 was way cheaper/easier to get then rank8.

    - Then there are those who like aps for rational or irrational reasons. Some consider having bp 5 times per sec is better then having bp 4 times per sec even it the last option heals more overall, some consider that the extra 5 chi per sec is important, etc etc

    - For the rest, it's cause most think "higher aps = higher damage". Even if they know themselves they do less or equal damage for more, they also know that "5 aps sin" will get them in squads more easily then "4 aps sin, but I do the same dps as G13 daggers".
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    FRFRYSHOOTER - Lothranis wrote: »
    Its just that sooooo many sins are walking around with those nirvana daggers, I kinda don't get why if they are roughly equivalent.
    Because so many cannot differentiate between APS and DPS, or haven't bothered to try. They have the almighty 'interval between hits' and sadly that's all they see. Granted not all are like this, and not to blatently put down the g13 Barrier Thorns as they are a viable endgame dagger. Just a vast majority are caught up in and bewildered by the -0.10 w/o exploring or even considering that anything else lacking in interval could be better.
    This same reason is why you will also see 100+ Sins with the rank8 top and still using +5 Hook and Thorn....simply because they have the -interval stat, even tho they are utter **** otherwise at 100.

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