Sage or Demon questions

_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver
_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 171 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Venomancer
Hello Veno's!

I am approaching the time when I need to choose my culti path and I'm having a tough choice! Both have some really nice options, so I thought I'd ask here for some feedback on what I'm planning to do end-game.

I'm (hopefully) planning on farming Nirvy and TT (with Herc), and possibly some TW too after I see how my Seeker is in TW. But assume I want to TW.

I like the idea of the HA/AA hybrid, especially for TW, which leans me more towards Sage for the awesome fox form defense bonus, melee mastery and AoE purge. But that's not only difficult to manage in terms of the exact build, but it's expensive too and limits my magic attack and healing power. I want to be able to switch between fox and caster without having either too underpowered.

Demon has some really nice skills too - more of the casting ones (nova, venemous, ironwood) and the fox form speed bonus is sweet! But the actual fox form skills don't look as good. It looks like a better choice if I was to stay primarily casting.

I'm leaning more towards Sage but I'd like some input from the rest of the Veno collective please b:pleased
Post edited by _Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Venomancer is one of those classes that their Cult choice provides big benefits for both Sage/Demon. Most choose according to skills , others according to Skill costs , some , from pure luck.

    Since u lean towards Sage , the maybe Sage is for You. usually our first choice is our best one. Personally if i ever manage to lvl this venomancer , ill go Sage. I have leaned towards demon many times , but at the end , sage appeals more to me , cause it suits my own style.

    since u want to TW some things i could point out are

    Sage Fox Form : Big def bonus , nice boost in accuracy
    Sage Amplify : 30% more dmg on a cata barb who is being spanked by every possible caster is just smexy.
    Sage Purge : 5 meter radius around the targer = 10 meter diameter purge , right left forward back diagonically and on the air. If u manage to pull it out on a group of clueless enemies , they are screwed.
    Sage Ironwood : 40% phys def debuff for 20 seconds. its nice
    Sage Noxious : More direct and DoT damage helps since u wont be pure caster

    Demon Fox Form : can replace Holy path from ur genie
    Demon Amplify : lasts a bit more , 25% dmg amplify , depends on cases
    Demon Nova : extra amplify
    Demon ironwood : if it lands it hurts , can be replaced or stacked with Myriads.
    Demon bramble : unless they change it , 75% reflect gives u official right to pull a finger at those APS midgets.
    Demon Lucky , less cooldown , more stuns.

    In the end , choose what u think is best , or toss a coin , and let Lady Luck plan things for you
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    edited October 2011
    I play more of a support role with my veno and rarely use fox form except for amp, myriad, and purge. Overall Sage was the better choice for me.

    I always say, look at the skills you use the most, and how the sage/demon attributes benefit you the best. Make a list and the one that weighs higher is your choice.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tfi3f
    tfi3f Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Hello Veno's!

    I am approaching the time when I need to choose my culti path and I'm having a tough choice! Both have some really nice options, so I thought I'd ask here for some feedback on what I'm planning to do end-game.

    I'm (hopefully) planning on farming Nirvy and TT (with Herc), and possibly some TW too after I see how my Seeker is in TW. But assume I want to TW.

    I like the idea of the HA/AA hybrid, especially for TW, which leans me more towards Sage for the awesome fox form defense bonus, melee mastery and AoE purge. But that's not only difficult to manage in terms of the exact build, but it's expensive too and limits my magic attack and healing power. I want to be able to switch between fox and caster without having either too underpowered.

    Demon has some really nice skills too - more of the casting ones (nova, venemous, ironwood) and the fox form speed bonus is sweet! But the actual fox form skills don't look as good. It looks like a better choice if I was to stay primarily casting.

    I'm leaning more towards Sage but I'd like some input from the rest of the Veno collective please b:pleased

    A few notes I'll make in passing to help ground your perceptions to what actually happens in the game so you can make a more practically informed choice:

    (1) Is your veno character on a PvP or PvE server? Do you intend to do any world PK on it, if on a PvE server?

    (2) You say you "like the idea of HA/AA for TW". Do you ever intend to actually use physical attacks from fox form? As in, do you intend to ever attack an opponent in fox form using APS and sparking increased dmg + melee? If you know that you've never done this, and don't intend to do it either, then don't consider it a factor, because for 90% of venos fox form accuracy and attack boost are NOT a factor.

    (3) Unless you SPECIFICALLY intend to build you venor to be a physical fox melee character and have very high physical attack (8K+ patk in fox form), and shard garnet/accuracy etc, do not consider Melee Mastery to be a factor, and if you know you play caster, do not even bother to level up Melee Mastery. As a corollary, if you know that you are not playing pure fox melee, stop thinking about melee mastery/fox-form-patk.

    (4) You are 90% likely to never ever play a duo-styled veno. You are most likely going to either play caster, or fox-melee. Choose one. Which do you use most? Do you ever attack things actively in fox form at all? Don't choose a middle path because you won't stick to it; 90% sure.

    (5) Now you should be thinking about whether you want to play caster or melee.

    (6) If you want to play melee, that means you will have to do HA build since you will be in your opponents' faces constantly, and you will not be kiting BMs, Assassins, Seeker, etc. Their APS will rip you apart if you do not go full HA. Else you'll play of course, caster which should be AA. That should finalize the things you need to know/think about for your dilemma over whether to go HA or AA.

    (7) In any serious TW faction, you will often not find sage purge to be a factor. Real guilds have venos who understand their purpose in TW (support) and they listen in to commands on ventrilo, so they go and purge priority targets when they are called out in vent. AOE Purge is overrated in TW: people on PvE servers tend to forget (or are unaware) that archers also purge, and if the other venos in your guild know their role and play pure support in TW, priority targets will always be purged. Archers, Wiz, etc which are the TW DD classes will kill everything else, your AOE purge is really of no consequence. Additionally, most TW DD classes go rank 9 nowadays.

    Also, veno is not supposed to be running in the middle of a whole squad of enemy targets, so from the time you find yourself trying to LEEEEEROOOOYY nnnJENKIIIINSSSSS a whole squad to purge it, you know you're doing something pretty stupid. I can think of at least one major TW guild on Harshlands where they would kick you after the TW for doing stupid **** like that.

    (8) There is an 80% or so chance that you will never have either sage or Demon Nova. Most venos never even see the skill book on AH, much less in their inventory.

    Hope I helped dispell some of the things you were factoring in as deciding points which were probably not that realistic.

    Good luck, and as stated by many people in this thread, sage and demon are both very parallel choices for veno.
    Valhalla disband. That is all \o/

    "The thing about winners is... they get to write the history books, and they get to analyze everything from high atop their winner's perch.

    Doesn't matter what the circumstances are." -- Burnout, Harshlands, Wizard.
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Have a sin/archer friend to duel you before you shard your weapon. While accuracy is never a problem for PvE, PvP is a whole different story.

    Concerning your sage/demon dilemma I happen to find demons to be slightly better on fox form (better triple spark, chance to gain spark on crush vigor) as the accuracy gains for sage aren't much better and the defense gains are just overkill - anything past 20k is enough for you to kill r9 sins on bramble. Melee mastery is pretty good regardless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.
  • Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary
    Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I found sage/demon a hard choice too for veno :) Both have amazing skills. While I see demon more as the "all or nothing" sage seems more like the "certain but not extreme" Sage Soul Degeneration being the exception ;)
    I myself am a demon veno, the only thing I miss is the sage soul degeneration. On bosses that skill is just.. awesome.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _Morigan_ - Harshlands
    _Morigan_ - Harshlands Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    i ve never seen demon nova in almost 3 years of pw.

    i fail every time i try to get it b:cry
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    i ve never seen demon nova in almost 3 years of pw.

    i fail every time i try to get it b:cry

    i have seen sage a few times (AH), demon only once , but they charged a freaking 40m for it o.o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • Aijou - Harshlands
    Aijou - Harshlands Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    i ve never seen demon nova in almost 3 years of pw.

    i fail every time i try to get it b:cry

    Isabella on harshlands had it.
    Then he changed to sage.
  • Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary
    Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Desdi has demon nova too, she got lucky with making books in cube :3
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aijou - Harshlands
    Aijou - Harshlands Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Hello Veno's!

    I am approaching the time when I need to choose my culti path and I'm having a tough choice! Both have some really nice options, so I thought I'd ask here for some feedback on what I'm planning to do end-game.

    I'm (hopefully) planning on farming Nirvy and TT (with Herc), and possibly some TW too after I see how my Seeker is in TW. But assume I want to TW.

    I like the idea of the HA/AA hybrid, especially for TW, which leans me more towards Sage for the awesome fox form defense bonus, melee mastery and AoE purge. But that's not only difficult to manage in terms of the exact build, but it's expensive too and limits my magic attack and healing power. I want to be able to switch between fox and caster without having either too underpowered.

    Demon has some really nice skills too - more of the casting ones (nova, venemous, ironwood) and the fox form speed bonus is sweet! But the actual fox form skills don't look as good. It looks like a better choice if I was to stay primarily casting.

    I'm leaning more towards Sage but I'd like some input from the rest of the Veno collective please b:pleased

    Don't worry about healing power when you're doing things such as TW and Nirvana. In both of those situations your Nix and Herc (respectively) will only be hit a few times. Each of those few times will likely oneshot it or either have it put immediately in a situation where the only way you can keep it from dying would be to pull it away and resummon it. (For example if an archer were autoattacking your nix in TW)

    Sage is definitely the more preferred option for TW given it's more support oriented skill set-up, AOE purge and stronger AMP.

    Every path has it's highs and lows, I suggest reading up on a few of the guides including mine (which is arguably biased towards demons) and going to ecatomb.com yourself and looking at the list of sage and demon skills.

    Pick the ones that really strike you as skills you can see yourself using and abusing often then find out how much they roughly cost on your server. Then make a separate list of the ones you can see yourself being able to afford by end-game.

    Don't forget you can always switch cultis after 100.