Killing Bots: Good or Evil?

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
edited October 2011 in General Discussion
Quick morality question:

If you see a bot near an AOE mob, is it good or evil to use the AOE mob to kill the bot?



I admit I do this, and I also admit I don't feel that there's anything wrong with it. But perhaps I am biased or something.

One specific type of botter I'm thinking of are AFK Venos, who the GMs have repeatedly stated are in fact cheating:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7709562&postcount=20
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2329571&postcount=87
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7586892&postcount=91

Personally, I report botters who are using a 3rd-party program (since that seems like a much more serious offense to me), but botters who are just AFK Venos I prefer to deal with using an AOE mob and not report. But perhaps I should leave them alone, report them, and get them banned instead?

Thoughts? Opinions?
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Post edited by WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Abstractive - Archosaur
    Abstractive - Archosaur Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Quick morality question:

    If you see a bot near an AOE mob, is it good or evil to use the AOE mob to kill the bot?



    I admit I do this, and I also admit I don't feel that there's anything wrong with it. But perhaps I am biased or something.

    Well...bots ruin our precious ingame economy that we need so much to raise billions of coins for no particular purpose. Kill all bots.
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  • HardToThink - Lost City
    HardToThink - Lost City Posts: 967 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    They're like free damage test dolls.
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  • Aesthor - Heavens Tear
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,845 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I'd kill them mostly out of mischief b:laugh
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  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    HardToThink - Lost City wrote: »
    They're like free damage test dolls.
    Well, see, that's where PvP servers have a distinct advantage. b:victory

    But on a PvE server many people will side with the bots. The argument seems to be that the botters are killing mobs, and it's always OK to kill mobs using any and all means available, even if it's against the ToS. But it's never OK to kill another player, or to get one killed.

    At least, that's what I *THINK* the logic is, because frankly, I admit don't really understand it.
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  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Bots need to be eradicated! Playing a game by not playing it is just silly, and can ruin it for others (especially herb farming bots). Why have the pc play your side of the chess board against the pc, just to win from the pc... Some ppl just have wrong priorities...
  • Tekril - Dreamweaver
    Tekril - Dreamweaver Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Kill the bots mercilessly.
  • UMad_Bro - Sanctuary
    UMad_Bro - Sanctuary Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Botters need to die a miserable death.


    However an afk veno is not a botter. Botting requires use of a 3rd party program to play the game for you. An afk veno isn't going to be picking up loot so I'm not sure how they're harming the economy. With today's exp options, the char exp gain would be laughable and the only real reward for the veno would be the pet exp--which is still painfully slow.


    I see this on similar level to afk flying across the world to save teleport fees. A teeny bit of savings for a huge investment of time. Doesn't bother me any if they want to **** away their time with a minimal return from 0 effort built in game mechanics.


    It doesn't bother me if you want to kill them either. They're the fools breaking the rules and going afk in combat areas.
  • ItsAWolf - Archosaur
    ItsAWolf - Archosaur Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well, see, that's where PvP servers have a distinct advantage. b:victory

    But on a PvE server many people will side with the bots. The argument seems to be that the botters are killing mobs, and it's always OK to kill mobs using any and all means available, even if it's against the ToS. But it's never OK to kill another player, or to get one killed.

    At least, that's what I *THINK* the logic is, because frankly, I admit don't really understand it.

    Is this a hint at the FC glitch and certain PK whining? b:chuckle

    If so, I approve of this message. Could be my own mind making twisted leaps though. Either way, I don't see any harm done getting anyone banned that's doing something against the ToS.
  • Lienna - Momaganon
    Lienna - Momaganon Posts: 136 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Tekril - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Kill the bots mercilessly.

    What he said b:victory
  • LadyYueliang - Sanctuary
    LadyYueliang - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Tekril - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Kill the bots mercilessly.

    +1b:chuckle
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  • Deteriorate - Harshlands
    Deteriorate - Harshlands Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Good, obviously.

    That said, if the economy wernt as **** as it is people might not be so tempted to bot.
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well luring mobs to grief others, particularly bosses into safe zones, is also against the ToS so I don't really see it as any better. :P Personally, I don't even get why this rule was implemented, but using a macro against a boss like sins use against solo mobs, or even going into BB is not against the rules. They even give away macro keyboards as prizes in their contests and then ban people for using them. :P IMHO if it's not exploiting a glitch, doesn't cause grief to other players, and is just using the game's intended mechanics the way they were intended it shouldn't be bannable. :P So personally, I don't report these venos on the very rare occasion that I see them. If I see third party bots though, I simply screenshot and report it. Although I must admit, i've never come across the temptation of an aoe mob being nearby, it would be very tempting indeed to kill those bots. b:laugh
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  • Magicsaber - Dreamweaver
    Magicsaber - Dreamweaver Posts: 727 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ...Although I must admit, i've never come across the temptation of an aoe mob being nearby, it would be very tempting indeed to kill those bots. b:laugh

    Killing bots at PvE server is in most cases impossible.

    Best method to kill bot is to Screenshot and report it.
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  • Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary
    Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I can't say I wasn't tempted to vote for all of them since the option is there... XD

    But yeh, kill the bots >:O
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  • Gorwulf - Sanctuary
    Gorwulf - Sanctuary Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    talking about killing bots.. they should make a way that if you spam the WC you auto turn into white name, no matter what lvl and zone, so ppl can kill gold spammers even in archo... hehe
  • //erIin - Momaganon8
    //erIin - Momaganon8 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    There are no bots in this game. The GM's are always watching and kill them instantly.
  • Roseary - Sanctuary
    Roseary - Sanctuary Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Afk + Gaining Exp = Cheating

    That formula brings to mind the training towers in guild bases, isn't there going to be a time where standing in the tower doing nothing gives you exp? Why would the devs implement it and GMs punish us for it!

    Also, killing any kind of botter with an aoe mob or boss is A-O-K in my book.
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  • Asgardeus - Sanctuary
    Asgardeus - Sanctuary Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I don't care for afk botting venos if they don't camp any mobs someone needs lol It's hard enough to level a pet and meh, let them be :p

    I care for real bots though. Like herb botters or people who take stuff others could need. Or if they're simply making money off their botting. That's what I kill when I see it.
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  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    UMad_Bro - Sanctuary wrote: »
    However an afk veno is not a botter. Botting requires use of a 3rd party program to play the game for you.
    I guess I can understand the differing opinion on the definition, but my reasoning is that if you're getting the game to play itself automatically in a fashion the GMs have specifically outlawed, then that seems to me to fit the definition of what a bot is.

    For example, no 3rd party program is required to use a macro keyboard, and using a macro keyboard isn't banable, but using a macro keyboard to get the game to automatically play itself is.

    Also, I sometimes use a 3rd party program to re-map keys to an XBOX controller, but the instructions for doing so were posted here on the forums by a GM. So the problem doesn't seem to be about using a 3rd party program or not.

    But anyway, that's just my opinion, and I understand why others might have a differing one, and I also certainly agree that 3rd party program bots are the worst kind, due to their sophistication.
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  • laloner
    laloner Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    How can you tell if a toon is a bot.
    AKA PermaSpark, Heartshatter
  • mogwai
    mogwai Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    UMad_Bro - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Botters need to die a miserable death.


    However an afk veno is not a botter. Botting requires use of a 3rd party program to play the game for you. An afk veno isn't going to be picking up loot so I'm not sure how they're harming the economy. With today's exp options, the char exp gain would be laughable and the only real reward for the veno would be the pet exp--which is still painfully slow.


    I see this on similar level to afk flying across the world to save teleport fees. A teeny bit of savings for a huge investment of time. Doesn't bother me any if they want to **** away their time with a minimal return from 0 effort built in game mechanics.


    It doesn't bother me if you want to kill them either. They're the fools breaking the rules and going afk in combat areas.


    So what if i my jelly doughnut smears are holding down the attack key, then my fat *** passes out...guess i'm safe then.
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  • Purge - Raging Tide
    Purge - Raging Tide Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    laloner wrote: »
    How can you tell if a toon is a bot.

    I wondered this too...

    But yeah, if you're sure they are a botter, they deserve death!
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    The reason that luring AoE bosses and killing people with it is bannable is because people get hurt for no reason. They haven't done anything to deserve it, there's no reason to do it except for giggles.

    Now, a botter isn't actually even playing the game. He's not there. Well, at best he'll be there with a book or something to check so that he can pass the usual GM botting inquiries.

    When he's not really even playing the game, does he even count as being any different from a mob? And do you really concern yourself over killing mobs you don't need to kill by hitting an AoE near them?

    Also, botters gain an unfair advantage over others, that is one of the reasons botting is bannable. Therefore, some might argue that you're actually doing them a favor by killing them. If they're dead, they can't bot and therefore they can't be banned, so they get to play longer. But that leads us to the question as to whether such "justice" is just vigilante action?

    Personally, I don't care about people enough to do that. Most people would see a botter and get angered or feel that they've been wronged. As far as I'm concerned, at that point anything that they choose to do is the wrong choice, they've already lost the game by being personally involved.
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  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    AFK venos and botters are... Stupid. I'd kill either.

    AFK venos that are AFK pet grinding mobs make for nice coin mold dumps, I've picked up hundreds of coins before... I found one once that was AFK pet grinding, had something held down on their heal pet key. I picked up the drops that they obviously weren't picking up, then started KSing their mobs... Then pulled a boss over and AOE killed them, then their Cleric when they dual logged to rez their Veno.
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  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited October 2011
    laloner wrote: »
    How can you tell if a toon is a bot.

    You ask it "are you a bot" and wait for a response.

    Do this a few times, if you don't get a response, and they continue doing it, take a screenshot.

    Sadly though, the ability to blacklist people under a certain level could prevent them from hearing you. Make sure to stand in front of them because then they can see the text over your head even if they don't see it in the chat window.


    Personally I'd kill em. I remember this one guy that used to level his veno pets by setting them on defend and standing on a mob in SP. he always put a stack of coins on the pickup key and that was how he farmed cash. Was fun to drop a line of coins from Dismal to him and watch him follow the trail auto-picking the coins.
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  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    PvP Server...me see bot...it in me way, it die :>


    No if, ands, or buts' bout it. The guy or gal botting in my path, it going to die until it leaves b:laugh
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  • fairymaster1
    fairymaster1 Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You ask it "are you a bot" and wait for a response.

    Sadly though, the ability to blacklist people under a certain level could prevent them from hearing you. Make sure to stand in front of them because then they can see the text over your head even if they don't see it in the chat window.

    That will not work if they have the show/hide players names in hide, but if someone is standing in front of me while i am grinding ect, i would have probaly noticed the pm's b:bye

    but yeah, kill the bots b:angry
  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Frankie's statement of being afk while gaining xp means that it's bannable to mass combine shards or dragon orbs and go afk while your toon works on them, because you gain xp from the process. So no going afk while working on shards or dq orbs or you could be banned. b:chuckle
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  • DraknessDuir - Sanctuary
    DraknessDuir - Sanctuary Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Frankie's statement of being afk while gaining xp means that it's bannable to mass combine shards or dragon orbs and go afk while your toon works on them, because you gain xp from the process. So no going afk while working on shards or dq orbs or you could be banned. b:chuckle


    Better not have emergency bathroom issues either b:chuckle
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    AFK venos and botters are... Stupid. I'd kill either.

    AFK venos that are AFK pet grinding mobs make for nice coin mold dumps, I've picked up hundreds of coins before... I found one once that was AFK pet grinding, had something held down on their heal pet key. I picked up the drops that they obviously weren't picking up, then started KSing their mobs... Then pulled a boss over and AOE killed them, then their Cleric when they dual logged to rez their Veno.

    You're admitting here to breaking TOS and you should be banned for it. fyi: You're a hypocrite.

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