BMs and the new R8 recast

Valenya - Lost City
Valenya - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Blademaster
Question to all you pro Bms out there. I have been slowly leveling and farmimg for my 5aps bm (mainly NV stuff), then I read about the R8 recast and now I'm wondering what the impact will be.
Can someone advise on what should I do? Do I forge the NV gears or wait till the r8 recast is launched? Will the recast r8 fist be a good option?

Thanks in advance for the replies b:pleased

Val
Post edited by Valenya - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Rank for BMs has always been kind of notoriously bad. After level 30 the only things worth getting are the rank axes and ring, unless you go full rank 9 for pvp and have most of your gear on switch for pve.

    One of the issues with rank 8 recast is we had to pick a single weapon choice out of 4 and could not change our minds once it was picked. Most people picked axes, I think. A good option since they are the best axes short of G15 Nirvana but for only a couple mil. A few people picked pole because of the heavy, consistant base damage on them for ranged pk attacks, since the other option is a Lunar or Nirvana pole and hope for a SS. Some people picked the sword, mostly because Rank 8 sword is decent and there really aren't many other sword options. Alot of people did pick fists at first because the high base damage made them good pvp fists. Even though they attacked slower they had close to the same dps (less, but close) but did heavier hits and crit more often. For dps and chi building reasons aps claws (Deicides, Striking Dragons, G13s...) won out.


    Now, when they introduce the recast option will they also allow us to repick our weapons?

    Sword and Pole could become ranged mage killers again if they could get a SS/GOF.
    Fist could compete and out DD other fists with just a single -.05 int add on as long as the user also has a -int tome.
    And the axes could become the best axes in the game other than other Rank 8 and rank 9 axes, leaving Nirvana in the dust.

    Also, right now we have 1 armor piece left over after the -int pants and 2 x tt99 set bonuses. Many people do things like a Nirvana chest plate. If this is the case, then instead of farming the vana chest plate you could use the R8 plate since when recast it could give more hp, as well as get the same defenses and refine rate (R8 will be bumped up to G15) all for much cheaper.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Valenya - Lost City wrote: »
    Question to all you pro Bms out there. I have been slowly leveling and farmimg for my 5aps bm (mainly NV stuff), then I read about the R8 recast and now I'm wondering what the impact will be.
    Can someone advise on what should I do? Do I forge the NV gears or wait till the r8 recast is launched? Will the recast r8 fist be a good option?

    Thanks in advance for the replies b:pleased

    Val

    I'm assuming you haven't chosen your R8 weapon yet (as Sakubatou alluded to... its a bit too late for most of us b:surrender). Therefore it certainly won't hurt to postpone your Nirvana plans for the weapon at least until you see how much it will cost to recast the R8 fists.

    The chances of rolling interval on the R8 weapon is absurdly low (0.06% I believe) but the % chances for other adds such as attack levels and God of Frenzy are much higher. R8 fists with GoF at 4 aps will out DD G13 claws at 5 aps by a large margin. The spike damage will be more useful in PvP too.

    As for re-rolling R8 armor... again its really a case of cost...
  • Valenya - Lost City
    Valenya - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Thanks guys, that was exactly what I was looking for, this will be my first melee class and I'm a bit lost .

    Please keep the comments up!!

    b:kiss
  • X_Rays - Sanctuary
    X_Rays - Sanctuary Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    http://w2i.178.com/201110/112560490725.html

    I just saw this debuff pole blade with +1.37m attack distance. Sick huh? Yeah unlike in the other expansions, BMs finally get something good.
  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I hope they unlock all the rank 8 weapons for bm's. A purge pole that does more than tickle would be nice. GoF sword, not so much.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    GoF on fists would make Zanryu very very happy.
  • Drigan - Raging Tide
    Drigan - Raging Tide Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ok so.. People are discussing how r8 fists with GoF would be OP.. But in terms of pvp. Im curious how viable it will be. Im referring mainly to the purify proc for r8 mag weapons.

    Im gonna picture the proc rate to be not much less like than SoS on a fully refined psy - though i hoping it'll proc less. So would stun locking + aps even work anymore if in the future 70% of mag classes have that? Im having this horrific flashback of what i saw in the pwic video of the wiz from china with what appeared to be the guild base weapon with purify proc.

    Though i will admit, on all other targets that dont have purify proc + pve farming sounds good. b:victory
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Drigan - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ok so.. People are discussing how r8 fists with GoF would be OP.. But in terms of pvp. Im curious how viable it will be. Im referring mainly to the purify proc for r8 mag weapons.

    Im gonna picture the proc rate to be not much less like than SoS on a fully refined psy - though i hoping it'll proc less. So would stun locking + aps even work anymore if in the future 70% of mag classes have that? Im having this horrific flashback of what i saw in the pwic video of the wiz from china with what appeared to be the guild base weapon with purify proc.

    Though i will admit, on all other targets that dont have purify proc + pve farming sounds good. b:victory

    I have to admit, that Purify proc seems massively overpowered if it has even a semi-decent proc rate, but... with GoF on fists the moment you stun the fight would be over. The only problem would be smart casters who use Fortify/Badge, but as long as you can catch up to 'em and stun them before Purify activates you'd be able to kill them.

    Honestly GoF on fists seems like a really good update for BMs, because only they can get it on fists which, if they use them, would bump them back up to 2nd highest DD in game which would be really nice. That, and it'd make fighting certain classes in PvP much less of a hassle.
  • Drigan - Raging Tide
    Drigan - Raging Tide Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    You think so? Maybe ill wait to see how it all goes. I don't feel that a r9 caster with r9 armour (say full JoSD x_x) and r8 purify weapon is convincingly splatter in 1 stun. I been skeptical about aps lately on certain targets. Long story short i had a BM try and APS me to death in tw. 150 dmg per hit with regicides on on 14k pdef and 83 def lvl mag marrowed - dont ask why he did it.

    I think my main concern was being unable to chain stuns in the long run. Assuming you don't smoke them after u lock them down on the first stun.

    Plus i found it easier to go toe to toe with a full +12 r9 psy easier with my full +10 and actually a +5 cube neck than relying on immunes to block silences and aps him. I can only imagine the pains of trying to deal with the purify proc + his buffs soon. b:sad
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Drigan - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Ok so.. People are discussing how r8 fists with GoF would be OP.. But in terms of pvp. Im curious how viable it will be. Im referring mainly to the purify proc for r8 mag weapons.

    Im gonna picture the proc rate to be not much less like than SoS on a fully refined psy - though i hoping it'll proc less. So would stun locking + aps even work anymore if in the future 70% of mag classes have that? Im having this horrific flashback of what i saw in the pwic video of the wiz from china with what appeared to be the guild base weapon with purify proc.

    Though i will admit, on all other targets that dont have purify proc + pve farming sounds good. b:victory

    My thoughts exactly and why I'm rolling a mage, 100% proc rate please
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Yup... once I'm back in game I'm gonna begin levelling my Psy, if the proc rate of Purify is even 20% I'm going for it.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yup... once I'm back in game I'm gonna begin levelling my Psy, if the proc rate of Purify is even 20% I'm going for it.

    I'd be happy with 10% 2 seconds of stunlock = no u
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • George_Bush - Harshlands
    George_Bush - Harshlands Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Purify is made to counter the 5.0 frenzy. Since the rate to trigger purify is greatly increased under 5.0 but not so great against normal skill attacks. We melees have GoF, now casters finally have the equivalent: Purify. This doesn't make BMs go obsolete, but only the BMs who rely on 5.0 too much in pk. We still have pole and axe with zerk. As you can see in the PWIC, most BMs use axe/pole. Tell me, what are the chances that purify will activate by a roar of pride followed by a drake bash 6 seconds later? Very little. However, purify will most likely to activate if you start using 5.0 between the two stuns.
  • Genital_Wart - Harshlands
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Here is the combo that I use to achieve minimum break between stunlocks.

    tiger maw (demon) + ocean's edge + drake's ray

    Using that between roar and bash, I'm able to stunlock almost perfectly given that my tiger maw is demon.

    Ocean edge has an awesome slow effect, and drake's ray stops auto attack. And the best part is that these three skills can be used under any weapon. If I don't have the spark for drake's bash, I can spam aeolian blade + demon meteor rush. The chances of stunlock are pretty high. Against another BM and barb, I can leap back after drake ray and use farstrike + smack + spirit chaser + drake's ray. With my enemy slowed by 70% from ocean's edge, I already have a great advantage.

    The point is BM has too many skills to be only relying on 5.0.

    Any better suggestions from pro BMs out there?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Drigan - Raging Tide
    Drigan - Raging Tide Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well as i said before, i found using my full r9 better vs a full +12 r9 psy. For the main reason his chance to silence was so damn high. Just about every 1-2 seconds of aps woulda meant getting silenced. So i thought i'd try just going DPH and stunning. I guess this applies to the whole purify proc too. Hit less but harder = procs less often.

    In that lil list there, i think as a demon Bm adding drake sweep might come in handy. Chance to get chi... The chances isnt all that great but i was tanking this psy that out geared me in refines and i had to get every bit of chi i could to keep him stunned. Seemed to help me maintain my chi usage in a long fight. i had to couple my stuns with occult though.
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Forgive my noobness here but chance to purify procs based on the number of times you get hit ?

    If so Ha Ha... forget the BMs... the class that this new purify add-on really fuccks over are Sins whose offense is pretty much aps by default (daggers are the only weapon they can wield).
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Forgive my noobness here but chance to purify procs based on the number of times you get hit ?

    If so Ha Ha... forget the BMs... the class that this new purify add-on really fuccks over are Sins whose offense is pretty much aps by default (daggers are the only weapon they can wield).

    Purify is like any other weapon proc, it only activates when you attack. That, or I'm horribly misinformed and Purify can activate randomly when you get attacked... which makes it god-like... and hella scary
  • Genital_Wart - Harshlands
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Drigan - Raging Tide wrote: »

    In that lil list there, i think as a demon Bm adding drake sweep might come in handy. Chance to get chi... The chances isnt all that great but i was tanking this psy that out geared me in refines and i had to get every bit of chi i could to keep him stunned. Seemed to help me maintain my chi usage in a long fight. i had to couple my stuns with occult though.

    Thanks. That's a great suggestion. I'll try to incorporate that to my combo.
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Forgive my noobness here but chance to purify procs based on the number of times you get hit ?

    If so Ha Ha... forget the BMs... the class that this new purify add-on really fuccks over are Sins whose offense is pretty much aps by default (daggers are the only weapon they can wield).

    Suppose the chance to proc is 5% per hit. Suppose you hit it once, the chance to proc is still 5% which is low. But suppose you hit it 5 times, then the chance that proc will trigger at least once is 1 - 0.95^5 = 0.226219063. That's roughly 20%. b:victory

    Yeah, aps sins will cry now. BMs are badasses no matter what the update brings because we have 4 weapons and like a million skills lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Genital_Wart - Harshlands
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Purify is like any other weapon proc, it only activates when you attack. That, or I'm horribly misinformed and Purify can activate randomly when you get attacked... which makes it god-like... and hella scary

    Yeah I think that purify is based on how many times you get hit, not how many times you hit others. It makes more sense that way too.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands wrote: »
    Yeah I think that purify is based on how many times you get hit, not how many times you hit others. It makes more sense that way too.

    How does that make sense? It's a proc on a weapon, it makes more sense for it to follow the same rule as other weapon adds and only activate when you hit someone.
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands wrote: »
    Yeah I think that purify is based on how many times you get hit, not how many times you hit others. It makes more sense that way too.
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    How does that make sense? It's a proc on a weapon, it makes more sense for it to follow the same rule as other weapon adds and only activate when you hit someone.


    It does make sense to work differently from other procs since... LOL... you won't be hitting anything when silenced or stunned (presumably the whole point of having purify in PvP) in the first place. b:laugh
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It does make since to work differently from other procs since... LOL... you won't be hitting anything when silenced or stunned (presumably the whole point of having purify in PvP) in the first place. b:laugh

    It's a weapon proc... why would it activate without the weapon being used? Just being able to get a stun resist and a speed boost is a pain enough as it is, but having it differ in the way it activates would be flatout OP. It's a weapon proc, until I see proof otherwise I'd say it's safe to assume it behaves in the same way as GoF and other weapon procs, meaning it only activates when attacking something.
  • Genital_Wart - Harshlands
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It's a weapon proc... why would it activate without the weapon being used? Just being able to get a stun resist and a speed boost is a pain enough as it is, but having it differ in the way it activates would be flatout OP. It's a weapon proc, until I see proof otherwise I'd say it's safe to assume it behaves in the same way as GoF and other weapon procs, meaning it only activates when attacking something.

    http://bbs.178.com/thread-3867743-1-1.html

    太清咒：受到攻击时有一定几率解除自身异常状态，同时免疫击晕、减速效果，移动速度提高200%%，持续5秒。"5%被击中触发提高从法术攻击100%，减唱50%，持续6S。

    My translation:

    Purify: A certain chance to lift all negative stats while under attack, also immune to stun, slow, and increase movement speed by 200%, lasts 5 seconds. Also a 5% chance to increase magic attack by 100%, channeling by 50% while under a successful attack, lasts 6 seconds.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands wrote: »
    http://bbs.178.com/thread-3867743-1-1.html

    太清咒：受到攻击时有一定几率解除自身异常状态，同时免疫击晕、减速效果，移动速度提高200%%，持续5秒。"5%被击中触发提高从法术攻击100%，减唱50%，持续6S。

    My translation:

    Purify: A certain chance to lift all negative stats while under attack, also immune to stun, slow, and increase movement speed by 200%, lasts 5 seconds. Also a 5% chance to increase magic attack by 100%, channeling by 50% while under a successful attack, lasts 6 seconds.

    Jesus freaking Christ we're all screwed
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Jesus freaking Christ we're all screwed

    Ha Ha !! Sins are really the ones who get it up the a$$ because as mentioned earlier in this thread, BMs still get Zerk axe and pole (either R8 or R9 to choose from now) which lessens the chance that purify will proc and remove your stun before the kill blow.

    But a 3.33/4.00 aps base dagger Sin now... LOLOLOL !!b:laugh

    I bought R8 for a Seeker I'm currently leveling (even have the Orbs stashed to +10 his weapon) with hopes of getting GoF on reroll. But now I'm having serious second thoughts as to whether it won't be better to reroll a Wiz, Rank 8 him and go troll every Sin in SP. b:sin
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ha Ha !! Sins are really the ones who get it up the a$$ because as mentioned earlier in this thread, BMs still get Zerk axe and pole (either R8 or R9 to choose from now) which lessens the chance that purify will proc and remove your stun before the kill blow.

    But a 3.33/4.00 aps base dagger Sin now... LOLOLOL !!b:laugh

    I bought R8 for a Seeker I'm currently leveling (even have the Orbs stashed to +10 his weapon) with hopes of getting GoF on reroll. But now I'm having serious second thoughts as to whether it won't be better to reroll a Wiz, Rank 8 him and go troll every Sin in SP. b:sin


    Yeah.. a Seeker with GoF could be very troublesome.. but without any real way to consistantly stunlock you'll have to pray for a chain of zerks/crits to kill a decently geared heavy with your combos b:surrender

    I wanna get some R9 axes later on... after I've obtained everything else on my list :P Recasted R8 fists + R9 axes would be pretty deadly =P
  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Purify proc has a chance to activate when you are attacked not when you attack; this was known since faction bases were introduced at the latest.

    It will be very effective for psy's as I noted back when the recast details were released a month ago or whenever, particularly in white voodoo.

    Sins will have a slightly harder time with casters but not much tbh. +12 r9 daggers hurt no matter what and they have the range to get a killing blow in as you try to run. Their daggers can effectively be turned into axes with Chill and they don't have to switch weapons for it.

    Nerf my class more plox. Psychics ftw.
  • Genital_Wart - Harshlands
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yeah.. a Seeker with GoF could be very troublesome.. but without any real way to consistantly stunlock you'll have to pray for a chain of zerks/crits to kill a decently geared heavy with your combos b:surrender

    I wanna get some R9 axes later on... after I've obtained everything else on my list :P Recasted R8 fists + R9 axes would be pretty deadly =P

    Remember you also have the deadly HF. Even in private servers, I don't think that a +12 wizard can kill a full defense +12 BM by using gush + pyro alone. The wizard will need to either use instant channeling pot, one of the ultis, essential sutra, or spark, in order to bypass BM's huge hp and insane mdef after marrow. Same way, don't expect to kill a insanely good geared wiz only using your normal skills and hoping for zerk + crit. HF at the right moment is the only way to kill a premium wiz with 20k p.def.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands wrote: »
    Remember you also have the deadly HF. Even in private servers, I don't think that a +12 wizard can kill a full defense +12 BM by using gush + pyro alone. The wizard will need to either use instant channeling pot, one of the ultis, essential sutra, or spark, in order to bypass BM's huge hp and insane mdef after marrow. Same way, don't expect to kill a insanely good geared wiz only using your normal skills and hoping for zerk + crit. HF at the right moment is the only way to kill a premium wiz with 20k p.def.

    On private servers you can drop fully geared Wizards without the use of HF, granted it's a pain to kill stunlock them. I'm not gonna deny that Seekers hit hard, but they have barely any stun resistance and their control skills are somewhat laughable. A Wizard will have a lower HP pool than a BM, even if they have good Pdef they'll still killable, it's just a matter of keeping them stunlocked which would still be possible. It'll be a real pain with Purify, but it's still doable.

    But.. jeez.. Purify is just plain overkill.
  • Genital_Wart - Harshlands
    Genital_Wart - Harshlands Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Purify proc has a chance to activate when you are attacked not when you attack; this was known since faction bases were introduced at the latest.

    It will be very effective for psy's as I noted back when the recast details were released a month ago or whenever, particularly in white voodoo.

    Sins will have a slightly harder time with casters but not much tbh. +12 r9 daggers hurt no matter what and they have the range to get a killing blow in as you try to run. Their daggers can effectively be turned into axes with Chill and they don't have to switch weapons for it.

    Nerf my class more plox. Psychics ftw.

    All +12 r9 hurts no matter what. r9 axe is better because even r9 dagger is trying to imitate it. :D. Okay sin has a knife throw, but what do BMs have? Oh boy, far strike, drake ray, spirit chase, smack, myriad sword. Not to mention BM has much better defense than a sin. All we need now are good weapons from all 4 paths. I agree sins are still OP because they can still stealth. b:angry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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