Do HA/LA builds still exist out there?

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Helloes.

Well I made a veno years ago, and have had her in full TT99 HA with TT99 Glaive for quite some time (ever since TT99 was considered the end game armor). And now looking at her, I just don't see any point in pursuing the goal of being a competitive player with her with the R9 stuff out now.

More or less I just want to cry that there's no HA or LA armor available R8/9 wise for veno, you're strictly bound to a certain build type if you want to use the rank equipment... which quite honestly sucks. Arguably you could use the Rank robes and use a different HA set like Nirvana, but it would pale against any R9 melee classes or archers...

The thing I liked the most was how flexible and customizable I could be with my veno's build, I loved the challenge of figuring out how to stat and use certain ornaments so I could wear current level gear.

Nirvana doesn't even really compare to R9 now so I don't really know lol.

Any of you run around with these types of builds (HA/Robe or LA) anymore? Just curious what end game venos are doing these days other than the typical arcane build. Are the various builds dead now? :[

Mistbelle - Sanctuary · October 2011

First of all, to play competitively, you do not need r9. A full nirvana set with the proper refines/shards will be sufficient.

I know a few LA/HA venos who can deal as much damage as a full AA veno. A mixture of r9 weapon/nirvana gear works wonderfully.

Just my two cents. b:surrender

Itori - Lost City · October 2011

Meh.
I was HA for a very long time,
They do exist, still see a few out there.
I just never see the build done very well. Though the mixed HA/AA ones seem to have higher HP, mdef and def than the LAs. I'm not really a fan of LA. They have more crit than AA or HA builds but like the survivability of a pure mag AA. Where the pure mag has higher m.atck, mdef, comparable def, LA slightly higher hp, crit, lower mag attack and mdef.
Also... I dont think a HA or LA will ever hit as hard as an AA.. even vit AAs who invest just a little more to mag. I use eyes of observation (cause I dont have a jungle belt and like to be creepy o'o) on random people just for the heck of it, I see venos with higher refine on their weap and they still dont have my magic attack. HA and LA are quite restricting on stats.
If you're after some sorta melee type veno maybe you'd consider an HA or LA build.

reason I restat: was unhappy with my build, extra def didnt help me much and mag attacks just *****. Maybe it was just the lowish refines but I dont think that was just it. sure, you're not always gonna be buffed but atleast consider... there are more def buffs than there are mdef buffs. Cleric buff, BM buff, Base buff/demon BM/Sage Cleric buff, and you also have fox form and bramble hood to consider. On the mdef side... cleric buff? it doesnt seem to stack with anything else

I'm probably missing a few but these are usually the ones you will see.

Though in the end, if you enjoy one of these other builds, pursue it. No one's gonna kick you from squad cause they notice you're HA (they never did to me at least b:surrender) Doesnt matter your armour build none of that affects your skills... just their power. Also... venos are probably one of the classes that almost always gets away with having crappy gear zzzzzz...b:sleep

Lady_Zam - Lost City · October 2011

Itori - Lost City wrote: »

Meh.
I was HA for a very long time,
They do exist, still see a few out there.
I just never see the build done very well. Though the mixed HA/AA ones seem to have higher HP, mdef and def than the LAs. I'm not really a fan of LA. They have more crit than AA or HA builds but like the survivability of a pure mag AA. Where the pure mag has higher m.atck, mdef, comparable def, LA slightly higher hp, crit, lower mag attack and mdef.
Also... I dont think a HA or LA will ever hit as hard as an AA.. even vit AAs who invest just a little more to mag. I use eyes of observation (cause I dont have a jungle belt and like to be creepy o'o) on random people just for the heck of it, I see venos with higher refine on their weap and they still dont have my magic attack. HA and LA are quite restricting on stats.
If you're after some sorta melee type veno maybe you'd consider an HA or LA build.

reason I restat: was unhappy with my build, extra def didnt help me much and mag attacks just *****. Maybe it was just the lowish refines but I dont think that was just it. sure, you're not always gonna be buffed but atleast consider... there are more def buffs than there are mdef buffs. Cleric buff, BM buff, Base buff/demon BM/Sage Cleric buff, and you also have fox form and bramble hood to consider. On the mdef side... cleric buff? it doesnt seem to stack with anything else I'm probably missing a few but these are usually the ones you will see.

Though in the end, if you enjoy one of these other builds, pursue it. No one's gonna kick you from squad cause they notice you're HA (they never did to me at least b:surrender) Doesnt matter your armour build none of that affects your skills... just their power. Also... venos are probably one of the classes that almost always gets away with having crappy gear zzzzzz...b:sleep

My story is very similar to Itori's actually. I have a level 100 sage venomancer. She was heavy armored, I had the tt99 heavy armor with a +9 neon purg. At the time, pro ****. I eventually realised that although I loved the defence and stuff, the whack in magic attack was too much. And I rarely critted. I tried pure mag, it wasn't to my taste, too squishy if I stole aggro. Vit/arcane was next, which was a nice but I still didn't like it.
Finally, my veno is light armored which isn't to everyone taste. But the crit and versatility is enough to keep me happy.

thumbs · October 2011

Mistbelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

First of all, to play competitively, you do not need r9. A full nirvana set with the proper refines/shards will be sufficient.

I know a few LA/HA venos who can deal as much damage as a full AA veno.

If they're LA/HA; they should be compared to an LA/HA class. There are advantages to being a mage and there are advantages to being melee. Veno benefits more from being mage and their AoE tops anything an LA/HA can do.

Moroboshi - Raging Tide · October 2011

thumbs wrote: »

If they're LA/HA; they should be compared to an LA/HA class. There are advantages to being a mage and there are advantages to being melee. Veno benefits more from being mage and their AoE tops anything an LA/HA can do.

Venos are a special Case. Unlike the other Arcane Classes they have also Physical Attacks
(Fox Form). Personally I like the LA-Venons, but I'm playing a
Vit/Mag (cut the Vit at 30) Veno. And HA can also be reallsy strong if you do it right.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · October 2011

A buffed heavy veno with +12 ornaments/weapon and real good gear peaks 44k physical resistance with 30k+ damage/second, 2.22 APS, 8 chi/second, without APS boost through genie, without garnets on armoury, without spark, not considering attack lvl.

No rank items at all.

thumbs · October 2011

Moroboshi - Raging Tide wrote: »

Venos are a special Case. Unlike the other Arcane Classes they have also Physical Attacks
(Fox Form). Personally I like the LA-Venons, but I'm playing a
Vit/Mag (cut the Vit at 30) Veno. And HA can also be reallsy strong if you do it right.

You call it an Arcane class; Mages do best with arcane / Arcane suits mages. Clerics have multiple phys attacks and are by far best as arcane. -Venos aren't a special case. If you want melee; roll a melee class.

Moroboshi - Raging Tide · October 2011

thumbs wrote: »

You call it an Arcane class; Mages do best with arcane / Arcane suits mages. Clerics have multiple phys attacks and are by far best as arcane. -Venos aren't a special case. If you want melee; roll a melee class.

Unlike the Cleric and all other Mage Classes:
The Damage in the Human Form is based on the Magical Attack
The Damage in the Fox Form is based on the Physical Attack

Even their Sage/Demon Sparks are unique, because of this.

Sage: Grants bonus damage equal to 900% of magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage for 15 seconds.

Demon: Grants bonus damage equal to 700% of magic attack plus 650% of weapon damage for 15 seconds.

And at least

Melee Mastery Level10 : Gain an additional 120% weapon damage in Werefox form.

Savor - Lost City · October 2011

Yes they do. I love playing this character my main is Susamajii here is my veno's build I share gear with my barb.

Savor

I can switch the rank 9 wrists into a +12 3 JOSD Heavy Nirvana and the belt to a g14 +11 elemental belt. Also the -7 stat points is because I have +7 strength on the CV ring, but pwcalc won't let me add it.

Moroboshi - Raging Tide wrote: »

Unlike the Cleric and all other Mage Classes:
The Damage in the Human Form is based on the Magical Attack
The Damage in the Fox Form is based on the Physical Attack

Even their Sage/Demon Sparks are unique, because of this.

Sage: Grants bonus damage equal to 900% of magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage for 15 seconds.

Demon: Grants bonus damage equal to 700% of magic attack plus 650% of weapon damage for 15 seconds.

And at least

Melee Mastery Level10 : Gain an additional 120% weapon damage in Werefox form.

I beat a rank 9 wizard with +10 gear in fox form only.

I really need a new wep if this Nirvana Balance cast i keep hearing about with getting 50 attack lvls on the wep I would probably do that if not then not really sure what wep to get..

tfi3f · October 2011

Yea, susa: your calc there has -7 stat points overcharge

http://pwcalc.com/72e1c2692ba9851a <-- If I did an HA veno it would be this build, but I'd really rather just roll a BM

Itori - Lost City · October 2011

Savor - Lost City wrote: »

Yes they do. I love playing this character my main is Susamajii here is my veno's build I share gear with my barb.

The only thing I learned from susa is that to be good with HA you have to be +10 or higher b:cry

but that goes for anything b:avoid

Susamajii - Lost City · October 2011

tfi3f wrote: »

Yea, susa: your calc there has -7 stat points overcharge

http://pwcalc.com/72e1c2692ba9851a <-- If I did an HA veno it would be this build, but I'd really rather just roll a BM

I stated why in my post. I have +7 str engraved on my CV ring that the calculator won't let me add in so I overcharged by 7.

Itori - Lost City wrote: »

The only thing I learned from susa is that to be good with HA you have to be +10 or higher b:cry

but that goes for anything b:avoid

You still have to know when to use what skills/genieskills/pots etc.

tfi3f · October 2011

Ah. my bad, fail skimming ftw \o/

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · October 2011

tfi3f wrote: »

Yea, susa: your calc there has -7 stat points overcharge

http://pwcalc.com/72e1c2692ba9851a <-- If I did an HA veno it would be this build, but I'd really rather just roll a BM

Why not both? I save a lot for wearing heavy on both bm and veno.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Im HA Veno, and I love it still. I cant say it works that well competetively, as the R9 Archers, Wizzies, Psys, Sins, Clerics, and occasionally veno, One shots me. PvP is dead, but compared to an AA Veno in PvE... Its a speciality thing.

I can do things AA Venos cant, and vice versa. Mostly due to my independency of pet tanking. I just never got the hang of it.

My build looks like this, since calculator dont allow ring engravings, I added 7 mag on my tome, and 20 phy atk on my ring,

http://pwcalc.com/1e927028a588fe3b

In the future I want to get an engraving to increase my dex for accuracy reasons, and maybe one day manage to get another socket in the weapon for an amber gem. But that will probably take so long that the game is gone before I get it x.x

I dont feel its much point in getting more HP, as Id need 5k more buffed to avoid most of the one shots. And increasing the magic def wont do much either, since I only got rings to do so. I farm, tank and kill bosses.

Why this build isnt a BM:

-Sage Soul Degen
-Sage Amplify
-Myriad Rainbow
-Magic with some real range(got AA set too, tho its weaker)
-Pets with debuffs +Stun
-Crush vigor for the barbs
-Accuracy debuff(w/low range AoE)
-8 second freeze while I pounce on ya with my paws o,..,o

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Oh, thanks everyone for the nice feedback!

I might pick up my HA/Robe built veno someday, but I'm too focused on my mystic for now trying to get enough coin for Lunar Nirvana equipments eventually. :S Made a sin specifically for farming Nirvana and such to help but it's still a while coming.

I'm just glad to hear people still roll these builds since I honestly wasn't seeing a lot of it ever since the first R9 sales. Sure I'd see the occassional 70-80 HA veno but nothing beyond that.

Like others say there are good reasons at least I think, for rolling an HA venomancer same as there are for LA etc. I like the versatility in being able to use both mag and phys skills without the fear of getting killed by bosses or mobs (such as in foxform I mean). That and I liked being able to take a beating if I took agro (which I still do even with a herc lol... and my armor/weapons are no where near +10).

I guess the main reason I was curious is because I made a BM on the same account as my veno so I could swap their armor. I was just trying to think ahead I guess you could say. I had planned eventually to make my BM the nirvana gear.

Which does bring me to one last silly question: Is it true that using claws on a veno in foxform isn't possible anymore? lol. I remember people being able to glitch it. Was just curious.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Its possible, but nore really worth it. If you gonna go fist, then Id recommend to roll a BM instead. Youll have no available skills if you glitch it, and it is still bannable(tho I doubt youd really get banned for it). Youll use a lot of time destroying the fists, and when yo ugo fox form you lose your ability to bramble, amplify, summer sprint etc. Wich makes the BM with HF a tad more cooler

Aijou - Harshlands · October 2011

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Im HA Veno, and I love it still. I cant say it works that well competetively, as the R9 Archers, Wizzies, Psys, Sins, Clerics, and occasionally veno, One shots me. PvP is dead, but compared to an AA Veno in PvE... Its a speciality thing.

I can do things AA Venos cant, and vice versa. Mostly due to my independency of pet tanking. I just never got the hang of it.

My build looks like this, since calculator dont allow ring engravings, I added 7 mag on my tome, and 20 phy atk on my ring,

http://pwcalc.com/1e927028a588fe3b

In the future I want to get an engraving to increase my dex for accuracy reasons, and maybe one day manage to get another socket in the weapon for an amber gem. But that will probably take so long that the game is gone before I get it x.x

I dont feel its much point in getting more HP, as Id need 5k more buffed to avoid most of the one shots. And increasing the magic def wont do much either, since I only got rings to do so. I farm, tank and kill bosses.

Why this build isnt a BM:

-Sage Soul Degen
-Sage Amplify
-Myriad Rainbow
-Magic with some real range(got AA set too, tho its weaker)
-Pets with debuffs +Stun
-Crush vigor for the barbs
-Accuracy debuff(w/low range AoE)
-8 second freeze while I pounce on ya with my paws o,..,o

Get that garnet out of your weapon and throw your orns in the garbage. It's obvious that you have the money to do so.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Aijou - Harshlands wrote: »

Get that garnet out of your weapon and throw your orns in the garbage. It's obvious that you have the money to do so.

Why so? Her belt/neck give her aps and the garnet boosts her melee damage. Her rings are same as mine except for the refines...

Aijou - Harshlands · October 2011

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why so? Her belt/neck give her aps and the garnet boosts her melee damage. Her rings are same as mine except for the refines...

Sorry, I generally classify "orns" and "rings" as separate things. I was mentioning the belt and necklace. Unless she is an APS veno, they should not be used. EVEN on a BM, they should not be used.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver · October 2011

You dont seem to actually put 2+2 together with your statements there. If I want more accuracy, 6 out of 8 points in my list is based in fox form, the calculator is set up in fox form, to display the physical damage, wich is 10-12k, Would I be anything else than fighting fox form? So of course I need the most possible -int to get the most out of this build PvE wise.

I know thinking before you speak is like whiping your bum before you ****, but at least try to seem like you understand a build before you tell anyone its garbage b:bye

Aijou - Harshlands · October 2011

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You dont seem to actually put 2+2 together with your statements there. If I want more accuracy, 6 out of 8 points in my list is based in fox form, the calculator is set up in fox form, to display the physical damage, wich is 10-12k, Would I be anything else than fighting fox form? So of course I need the most possible -int to get the most out of this build PvE wise.

I know thinking before you speak is like whiping your bum before you ****, but at least try to seem like you understand a build before you tell anyone its garbage b:bye

Pure foxform veno.

You just gave up your legitimacy in any veno-related topic.

Castgurl - Raging Tide · October 2011

RosangeIa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Helloes.

Well I made a veno years ago, and have had her in full TT99 HA with TT99 Glaive for quite some time (ever since TT99 was considered the end game armor). And now looking at her, I just don't see any point in pursuing the goal of being a competitive player with her with the R9 stuff out now.

More or less I just want to cry that there's no HA or LA armor available R8/9 wise for veno, you're strictly bound to a certain build type if you want to use the rank equipment... which quite honestly sucks. Arguably you could use the Rank robes and use a different HA set like Nirvana, but it would pale against any R9 melee classes or archers...

The thing I liked the most was how flexible and customizable I could be with my veno's build, I loved the challenge of figuring out how to stat and use certain ornaments so I could wear current level gear.

Nirvana doesn't even really compare to R9 now so I don't really know lol.

Any of you run around with these types of builds (HA/Robe or LA) anymore? Just curious what end game venos are doing these days other than the typical arcane build. Are the various builds dead now? :[

My veno on DW used to be LA build. It wasn't too bad (It isn't really, if you can afford to make it work for you) it gave you better physical defense than AA, and better elemental defense than HA. The damage department was lacking though (for me at least) so I switched over to AA pure build, then went hybrid 50 vit build. Decent hp, but still hits hard enough. LA's still around (not as much as before though) because there has been a big calling for venos that can nuke and perhaps not get 1 shot lol. I miss it on my old veno and even this one sometimes, and the crits were swwweeeeet.

On to R9

You don't HAVE to have it. That is YOUR choice on what you want to do with your character and what will be best for it. (And what you are willing to grind/spend money on!) b:cute The only thing I see that appeals to me (that I would actually grind for) is the weapon. But it's a pataka, so the damage range can go from SUPER PWN to super sucky...it has nice adds though, so it's def. not too bad at all. If you are a 100% Pvp type of person, you might want to a get a few pieces of it..a LOT of people are running around in QQ+12 OMFGAHH R9 weapons and even highly refine armor. And throw in the cash players into that group and you might hide under a rock for months rather than go out there in pk mode with those guys.

HA/LA venos still around?

Yes (MUCH less than 2 - 3 years ago)

R9?

If you really want to get it and can afford it/grind for it. It's not 100% needed to 'enjoy' the game, but pvp is a bit crazy now a days haha...

Lunar/TT Nirvy?

You're right, we can't really stack it up against rank 9...but not EVERYONE is a cash player either. There's quite a number of people that still grind or merchant (like me) for their items in-game, or even have a aps alt (loooool) to farm for cash. Of course unless they have been around the place for a while, just saving up, not every single person is going to be like epic lord +10 every-PO-thing. It just depends on what you're doing with your veno (TW? PK? PvE?) I'm planning on going Lunar Nirvy (full, yes, not R9, I could care less about it.) Good rings with - channeling that are somewhat endgame worthy, stick a couple of ornies that are decent and maybe, maaayyybe try getting the R9 weapon. If not, I'll hang with my TT99 Magic Stick of epic omega doom and go from there.

b:bye -Casty

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Pure foxform veno.

You just gave up your legitimacy in any veno-related topic.

I find that one kinda amusing, since you pretty much dismiss anything but the Vit build for a veno. Wich is what the majority seem to disagree with you on. Your "guide" wich is more a rant of a.. not sure what you are, but Im putting early teen here, that youre supposed to be right. Making everyone but you wrong. Wake up kiddo

2.22 at about 10k damage after defences on the normal bosses give me an easy 22.2k DPS, in addition to the fact that most bosses will already be down 20% because of the Sage degen. I also got the lovely amplify damage, and on occasion the Myriad rainbow hits in. My sparked physical damage is around 20k without help, and with genie skills I hit 2.86 ->2.5, giving me a sparked DPS of 50-57k, without any extra effort.

With a number of damage amplifications, my veno have hit 247k per hit at 2.5, giving a second of 617.5k DPS.

A caster with the same amplifications, and with say 30% -channeling, Would have to hit a 456.95k hit to get the same DPS for that one second, using ironwood.

Sorry, your vit build wont do that b:bye

Susamajii - Lost City · October 2011

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/1e927028a588fe3b

What is this.. I don't even..

Biggest waste of money I have ever seen if this is really your veno build.

I beat a r9 Wizard 1v1 fox form only named Wadzio with my veno Savor. I did have the advantage due to I was buffed and can purge him. But if you really don't want to miss should have went demon and got demon soul degeneration instead of whatever that pwcalc you linked was.. good god.

Pytharia - Lost City · October 2011

Glitched Claw Venob:dirty

tfi3f · October 2011

Susamajii - Lost City wrote: »

What is this.. I don't even..

Biggest waste of money I have ever seen if this is really your veno build.

I beat a r9 Wizard 1v1 fox form only named Wadzio with my veno Savor. I did have the advantage due to I was buffed and can purge him. But if you really don't want to miss should have went demon and got demon soul degeneration instead of whatever that pwcalc you linked was.. good god.

Not to mention that she only has 4K mdef unbuffed. Any kind of wiz with r8 +7 and above and a jones blessing will absolutely kill her with ease and she won't even get a single hit in. All that HP means nothing when the wiz is hitting you for 2.5K-3K with gush.

Undine -> Glacial Snare -> Force of Will -> Sutra -> nuke.

Even if you're charmed you'd be dead with that fail build

Listen gaiz, if you wanna CS a build, be sure you can do it right, and be sure that it's OP UNBUFFED, before you consider buffs. Don't plan a build for buffs, gaiz.

Bellarie - Raging Tide · October 2011

thumbs wrote: »

If you want melee; roll a melee class.

Why is it people say stuff like this, but the turn around and defend to the death the right for non-BM's to use claw builds for 5APS? Why is it not okay for someone to say "if you want claw APS, roll a BM"

Veno is a special case, in that it is half melee class(Fox side), half magic class(Spellcasting side). So yes, rolling a veno is an option for being a "melee class"

On topic, I am a LA veno, and I quite enjoy it. I can successfully tank most bosses long enough to make a great backup for when the regular tank dies. Having a herc further adds to this, and I quite enjoy the extra oomph in fox form. Of course, I spend most of my time in fox form
Also, I use arcane ornaments and headgear for the extra channelling and mdef lost to LA.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/1e927028a588fe3b

Why on earth would use use the LA Belt and necklace? Evasion is pretty much useless in this game, and you can get the same -int bonus from the tt99 HA belt and necklace(Lionheart set).

Aijou - Harshlands · October 2011

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I find that one kinda amusing, since you pretty much dismiss anything but the Vit build for a veno. Wich is what the majority seem to disagree with you on. Your "guide" wich is more a rant of a.. not sure what you are, but Im putting early teen here, that youre supposed to be right. Making everyone but you wrong. Wake up kiddo

2.22 at about 10k damage after defences on the normal bosses give me an easy 22.2k DPS, in addition to the fact that most bosses will already be down 20% because of the Sage degen. I also got the lovely amplify damage, and on occasion the Myriad rainbow hits in. My sparked physical damage is around 20k without help, and with genie skills I hit 2.86 ->2.5, giving me a sparked DPS of 50-57k, without any extra effort.

With a number of damage amplifications, my veno have hit 247k per hit at 2.5, giving a second of 617.5k DPS.

A caster with the same amplifications, and with say 30% -channeling, Would have to hit a 456.95k hit to get the same DPS for that one second, using ironwood.

Sorry, your vit build wont do that b:bye

I'm a heavy armor veno. So I don't really see our point on hating on VIT/MAG. If your amazing foxform build is so perfect then write your own guide and see what people have to say.

I'm all for unique builds for the sake of being unique and special, but if you're really trying to justify the practicality of this then you have a lot to learn.

SmurfJegeren - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Why on earth would use use the LA Belt and necklace? Evasion is pretty much useless in this game, and you can get the same -int bonus from the tt99 HA belt and necklace(Lionheart set).

~Wonders when people will ever bother to read an entire thread~

Edit: Im already wearing Lionheart boots and bracers, so there would be no -int bonus from wearing those ornaments

Again, Im doing this to increase my over all DPS. I dont have to fear wizzies, as I dont do open world PvP... Mostly... Ive killed R9 wizzies like this, and Ive killed 5 aps BMs in melee combat. Barbs gone down too, even with R9 gear on. I can change to my AA set at any time if needed(Tho its noticably weaker with +5 G15 AA), however using the pants and sleeves with the HA usually gives me enough boost in mag def to survive the occasional encounters.

As with most others tho, I dont see why I should fear the wizzies, as theres hardly any of em out there. While theres a ton of sins that actually hit me for over 2k with a bow(sparking). Even the ones that would easily kill me seems to fear anything wearing bramble b:chuckle

Do HA/LA builds still exist out there?

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