Off with their heads!

Azzazin - Dreamweaver
Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
edited October 2011 in General Discussion
Today a single squad went on a rampage and killed both north archosaur guards and both west archosaur guards inside of an hour (Dreamweaver).

Turns out the respawn time on a guard is roughly 30 minutes! Took some cool guard-free commemorative screenshots.

Squad make up:

-105 assassin (myself, and the brainchild of how we did it)
-102 assassin (extra dd)
-103 bm (more dd in case somebody messed up)
-101 DEMON veno (demon ironwood scarab)
-101 cleric -alt, for rezzes ;o
-102 sage veno (moral support)

Could hypothetically be done with a mere 3 people; DD primary, DD secondary, and demon veno.

When hitting the guards with some of my characters this evening, I noted that while my cleric was doing relatively normal damage (say, 4-6k per hit with great cyclone) I was doing a mere 400-800 with a knife throw, 1/10th the damage! While I was thinking about this it struck me that a demon veno with ironwood scarab might be the answer.

Demon ironwood scarab has a 20% chance to drop the physical defense of target to 0. ZERO. Nada. Zilch. Thus, I guessed, if ironwood scarab were to hit, the npc might be killed by a single squad very quickly.

After some trial and error, this is how we managed to do it.


1) Sins buff with deaden nerves, focused mind, and demon bloodpaint (just in case the timing of apoth wasn't quite right)

2) (a) I would triple spark, inner harmony (2 sparks of chi), and knife throw npc.
(b) the assassin & blademaster sparked about 2 seconds after me.


To hit npc, hold down CTRL button bottom left of keyboard while clicking your attack/genie skill/whatever.----
We discovered amps like hf and extreme poison & veno amp do not work on npcs!----

3)(a) as npc approached, I hit absolute domain and power dashed the npc.
(b) demon veno used ironwood scarab

4) (a)I would hit ironguard at this point then click auto attack.
(b)the other assassin & blademaster hit auto attack too, but didn't need to use an apoth

5) (a)if the demon ironwood scarab failed, jump up, everybody fills up chi, wait for genie & apoth, then try again
(b) if the ironwood scarab worked (20% chance remember) the npc died in about 8 seconds, and the damage we did was like hitting a normal TT boss.

6) Congratulated ourselves & proceeded to kill more guards! :D


If you should wish to try, this method worked rather well. Feel free to share any tales you guys may have of epic guard/npc kills.

Cheers!

Azzazin
Post edited by Azzazin - Dreamweaver on
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Comments

  • Escorian - Dreamweaver
    Escorian - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    >.> it is bannable to lure the guard so I am pretty sure it is bannable to kill the guards.

    edit: >.> than again alot of things are bannable but the gms just do not care anymore.
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  • Eilexa - Heavens Tear
    Eilexa - Heavens Tear Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I didn't even know killing guards/npcs were possible ... is that even allowed? You said you had screenies - please post?
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  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Poor logic.

    1) They weren't lured. The guards at no point left their little pad where they normally live.
    2) Luring = to tempt, to attract. If simply 'luring' a guard was a bannable offense, anybody who has ever been red-named and unwittingly ran past or flown over a guard and thus pulled it into archosaur is liable to be banned. Plausible? I don't think so.
    3) Presumably the danger in luring a guard is... (? It might frighten somebody ?!). There is really no logical connection between luring being an offense, and killing the guard being an offense.
    4) Others have killed the guards before with no repercussions.

    /

    Go dump your rain on somebody else's head.

    ;D

    Azzazin
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  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    It didn't occur to me to take screenshots whilst killing the guards, but we did take some of the guard-less entrance. You could also ask anybody from Dreamweaver, we made a big fuss in world chat about it lol.

    You will understand that I will not be posting any screenshots until I am 100% positive I am not indemnifying anybody of doing something they aught not to have done, though this seems a pretty harmless way to have some fun.

    How many people can say they killed a guard?

    ;o
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  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited October 2011
    I think you're pretty safe to post those screenies. Most of the time, people get in trouble for luring guards to other red-named players and getting them killed. Killing the guard is a pretty amazing feat (they hit HARD)... Bask in the glory of it.

    b:chuckle

    However, if you still want to be positive, I can ask frankie when he gets into the office today.b:mischievous
  • StormHydra - Sanctuary
    StormHydra - Sanctuary Posts: 2,221 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I remember the Conqueror faction on Lost City killed a guard about a year and a half ago.
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  • Magicsaber - Dreamweaver
    Magicsaber - Dreamweaver Posts: 727 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I remember the Conqueror faction on Lost City killed a guard about a year and a half ago.
    It had been done already:
    Offical: Harshlands PK a Guard

    And there are no Assassins ... good old days.
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  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited October 2011
    The point isn't that one was killed...

    The point is that 4 guards were killed...

    Within the span of 1 hour...

    That's impressive.
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear
    Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    The point isn't that one was killed...

    The point is that 4 guards were killed...

    Within the span of 1 hour...

    That's impressive.

    The point is that a guard was killed back then...

    Without assassins...

    Without crazy 9001aps damage that makes everything easy...

    Now THAT'S impressive.
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  • Hideori - Lost City
    Hideori - Lost City Posts: 530 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    good job!

    i hate those guards.
  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Oh yay aps damage can even kill guards .-. Grats I guess...


    Kinda funny you insist on the demon veno. Every veno got 2 skills that can drop physical def to zero if they learned their 79 skills. Doesn't need demon ironwood for that...
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  • Tyramera - Dreamweaver
    Tyramera - Dreamweaver Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Kinda funny you insist on the demon veno. Every veno got 2 skills that can drop physical def to zero if they learned their 79 skills. Doesn't need demon ironwood for that...

    ^This

    Although, a demon veno would have three chances to armour break, not just two. Also, there is the question of timing. Azzazin would have to confirm, but there might not be enough time (during the IG window) for a sage to myriad human, then change to fox and myriad again. i.e. if only the second myriad procs, will the IG run out before guard dies?

    But I would definitely think that a demon could cast IW then myriad human in enough time (since myriad is instant). Giving two chances at armour break and increasing the odds that the squad wouldn't have to disengage and try again.

    Also, that sage veno in squad should have been using myriad then. Doesn't matter if it overwrites the IW (or other way around) since they're both 100% reduction - and it lasts 9 seconds (and the kill took 8 sec) so no problem there. Unless you tested and myriad didn't work for some reason.

    Or get three venos in squad and have them all cast IW (if demon) and myriad, one is bound to hit XD.
  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited October 2011

    Also, that sage veno in squad should have been using myriad then. Doesn't matter if it overwrites the IW (or other way around) since they're both 100% reduction - and it lasts 9 seconds (and the kill took 8 sec) so no problem there. Unless you tested and myriad didn't work for some reason.

    This. If your sage veno was literally there for moral support and didn't realize she could do the same thing as the demon veno, thereby giving you two chances at success.... Fail.

    Also, you can hit both myriads in pretty quick succession. Hotkey them in a row: human myriad, foxform, foxform myriad... then it is a matter of hitting 1, 2, 3 quickly. Since myriad is an instant cast it would only take the extra second of changing to fox.
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  • Jay_Dubbz - Lost City
    Jay_Dubbz - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    been done before with lesser gear and lvls, nothing special here
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    been done before with lesser gear and lvls, nothing special here

    I'm really impressed with the level 8x squad that did it without the need of level 10x people. Now THAT's impressive.


    @OP
    GZ I guess though guys. Though I think the only guard that might get you in trouble as far as screen shots go is guard seven since he's required NPC for lowbie culti. Other than that I can't see a reason why you'd get in trouble. :P
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  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    New challenge: Kill guards with an army of level 30 red names.
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  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    K, I asked a few sage and demon venos this, and I'm not sure if you guys are right. Sage/demon venos are one of the few classes I don't have a lot of experience with using personally, so I can't just go test this stuff out myself. (Also, surprisingly a lot of venos don't actually know for sure what their skills do.)

    Here is the information I have about the veno skills, and why I thought what I did. If anybody can tell me more information, please do so.

    Ironwood Scarab skill description:

    lvl 10: Throw a splinted bug at the enemy inflicting Wood damage equal to
    base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 1327.7.
    Reduces enemy's physical defense by 30% for 10 seconds. Requires 25 Chi

    sage: Throw a splinted bug at the enemy inflicting Wood damage equal to base magic
    damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 2770.0. Reduces
    enemy's physical defense by 40% for 20 seconds.
    Sage version increases physical defense reduction to 20 seconds.

    demon: Throw a splinted bug at the enemy inflicting Wood damage equal to base
    magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 2770.0.
    Has a chance to reduce enemy's physical defense by 40%.
    Demon version only has a 20% chance of success,
    but will reduce physical defense to zero instead.



    Myriad Rainbow
    skill description (fox or standing, doesn't matter):

    Launch a shimmering chromatic scarab at an enemy.
    Your target has a chance to be affected by various status ailments.
    Bleed: 4500 physical damage over time.
    Poison: 4500 Wood damage over time.
    Armor break: Physical defense reduced by 100%.
    Mind break: Magic defense reduced by 100%.
    Lasts 9 seconds.


    Alrighty. A quick perusal shows us a few interesting things which may be skill description errors, or may be more.

    First, note that lvl 10 ironwood lasts 10 seconds, sage ironwood lasts 20 seconds, and demon ironwood... why, it doesn't say. We have to assume 10 seconds.

    Second, note how demon ironwood explicity states that the defense is reduced TO ZERO.

    Thirdly, note that myriad rainbow says there is a 100 PERCENT reduction.

    So the question is, in the world of PWI math, do those two things mean the same thing? I know of other skill effects that 'reduce by XXX %' (eg, one genie skill that reduces attack rate by 135% for 5 seconds) that does NOT reduce my attack rate to zero.

    Given that I wasn't sure if myriad actually reduced physical defense to zero or not, I went with demon veno, where the skill description was quite explicit about it. Also, one person asked: time to use ironwood then myriad? No, not enough time. We had to kill the guard inside the span of ironguard powder (no pun intended).

    Initially when I tried solo-dding the guard, I got its hp down to 40%. I have some of the best dd a sin can get outside of r9, so I doubt anybody can solo-dd a guard without at least the help of one more dd. The veno I was squadded with had a bm who was free, so he came to help along with the assassin I found via world chat. It would undoubtedly have been more impressive to solo-dd a guard; alas, it was not to be.

    Now lets see you guys go & try to kill a guard, eh.

    ;o
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  • ZoracGallant - Raging Tide
    ZoracGallant - Raging Tide Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Is killing a guard hard - Yes - so gratz to you and your team

    But note it has been done on probably every server but the french and german ones so it's not really a big accomplishment.

    Want to brag about something, kill all the guards outside west arch at the same time knocking them off 1 at a time is childs play to people that know how to play their classes.
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  • ClericMD - Lost City
    ClericMD - Lost City Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Someday pw dev should put the head hunetr outside of archo and let players kill he for all the damn orbs a chips we get for reward to do bh b:angry

    The event cant be call The great Hunting of the hunter b:laugh.

    PD sory for my bad english.
  • Vital_Slash - Sanctuary
    Vital_Slash - Sanctuary Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    iamllam wrote: »
    @ OP your gonna get ban b:bye b:bye b:bye why you kill guard you soo dumb OMG it is glitch and you did it you now gonna die byeeee

    Either thats a troll(and i hope so) or either you're a very "special" person. Any1 can attack the Guards and kill them with a red name since Mods and GMs don't seem to have a problem with it.

    So your post is Silly.
    You're Silly.
    Bye :D
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  • Thehate - Heavens Tear
    Thehate - Heavens Tear Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited October 2011

    So the question is, in the world of PWI math, do those two things mean the same thing? I know of other skill effects that 'reduce by XXX %' (eg, one genie skill that reduces attack rate by 135% for 5 seconds) that does NOT reduce my attack rate to zero.

    Easy explanation to that. "Reduce attack rate means "add interval between hits" so is +interval. If you are 5 APS, your interval between hits is 0.20 seconds. +135 percent to that is 0.47, which rounds down to 0.45=2.22 APS.
  • Thehate - Heavens Tear
    Thehate - Heavens Tear Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have to admit I don't understand you.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    The point isn't that one was killed...

    The point is that 4 guards were killed...

    Within the span of 1 hour...

    That's impressive.

    Not really.

    We did that nearly a year ago in about 40 minutes... due to rage for TW pay being nerfed, if I remember correctly. Both guards at west and both at north. The ones at south can't be pulled over the bridge, they reset before you can get them to a spot to be killed.... We tried for like half an hour.

    Killing the guard on HL two years ago was fun. I was still a nub there but it was exciting... there must have been over a hundred people in west watching... except when they killed the guard on HL, they were glitching it. But they were definitely the first on PWI to do it.
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  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ah ha ha!

    I have more information, minions.

    I did some extensive testing with some venos. With one veno, I tested the effects of myriad rainbow, both human and fox form, when I was buffless, and when I had cleric buffs.

    Here is a summary of what I discovered.

    Unbuffed:
    physical defense = 6100
    magical defense = 4000
    physical defense with myriad = 1600
    magical defense with myriad = 400
    physical defense with demon ironwood = 0

    Buffed (cleric):
    physical defense = 9100
    magical defense = 6200
    physical defense with myriad = 4100
    magical defense with myriad = 2600
    physical defense with demon ironwood = 0

    Clearly thinks aren't as straightforward as they seem. Does myriad reduce defenses by 100%... of gear value? If so, which gear? Do mobs or guard npcs have 'gear'? Demon ironwood scarab, at least, always reduces defense to zero it seems, regardless of gear or buffs.

    I can't say for sure how these skills work on mobs or guard npcs, but clearly, the mechanism behind how demon ironwood and myriad rainbow work is not the same, hence the different skill descriptions.

    So.

    Suck it!

    Azzazin
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  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ah ha ha!

    I have more information, minions.

    I did some extensive testing with some venos. With one veno, I tested the effects of myriad rainbow, both human and fox form, when I was buffless, and when I had cleric buffs.

    Here is a summary of what I discovered.

    Unbuffed:
    physical defense = 6100
    magical defense = 4000
    physical defense with myriad = 1600
    magical defense with myriad = 400
    physical defense with demon ironwood = 0

    Buffed (cleric):
    physical defense = 9100
    magical defense = 6200
    physical defense with myriad = 4100
    magical defense with myriad = 2600
    physical defense with demon ironwood = 0

    Clearly thinks aren't as straightforward as they seem. Does myriad reduce defenses by 100%... of gear value? If so, which gear? Do mobs or guard npcs have 'gear'? Demon ironwood scarab, at least, always reduces defense to zero it seems, regardless of gear or buffs.

    I can't say for sure how these skills work on mobs or guard npcs, but clearly, the mechanism behind how demon ironwood and myriad rainbow work is not the same, hence the different skill descriptions.

    So.

    Suck it!

    Azzazin

    I could have told you that by simply comparing them to the skill Enrage, or as it used to be called Frenzy. It reduces your defense by 100% however it doesn't bring you down to zero. Myriad's description says it's a 100% defense reduction so it's most likely behave as Enrage. I was gonna keep my mouth shut but, you know... why not get involved? Grats on gooning to 105 by the way :P
  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Heh wise guy, I knew that they didn't work the same way. Nice to think of using enrage as a proof, but by actually testing the skills themselves, there can be no doubt.

    My message was more to the doubting venos who posted above me.

    Still... can you say *why* a 100% defense reduction doesn't reduce defenses to zero? Hmm.
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  • Allynna_ - Dreamweaver
    Allynna_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    100% most likely means gear. That's the Pdef from Armour Physical Ornaments and Garnets on a player (Plus any +Def add). Then, when you get buffed (IE, a Sage Barb With level 11 bell and Vanguard) can have up to 100+120+90+60+100 (Base/SSI/Bell/Vanguard+proc) would get 480% Pdef. If hit by Myraid (or Pole/Fragrance's 'Armour Break') that would only drop to 360%. Add that to the diminishing returns on defense (100% armour break at 40K Pdef will barely be noticeable) and a '100% armour break' usually doesn't actually drop defenses to Zero.

    Also, Vit has a small multiplier for defenses to. So possessing Vit can make it impossible for someone to 'armour break' you, even purged.
  • Barber - Heavens Tear
    Barber - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    dont see a point on why even trying to do it b:bye
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    Assassin(Spongeworthy)=104
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  • Waterscyth - Harshlands
    Waterscyth - Harshlands Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ah i remember we attempted this a second time on Harshlands at west gate with SyntherosX and Wytche and a buncha other r9 archers, sadly it dissolved into a PK fest as the +12 r9 archers REFUSED to put white named protections on for their BoAs ahh soo many people died that day
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  • StormHydra - Sanctuary
    StormHydra - Sanctuary Posts: 2,221 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    iamllam wrote: »
    silly tats what she told billy billy grow big and attacked her she cried billy is mean

    This guy is my idol.
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