Crit+Zerk hits

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SoulFeast - Harshlands
SoulFeast - Harshlands Posts: 77 Arc User
edited October 2011 in General Discussion
Well, today i was just playing with friend sin in pvp, she's 102 hp arround 6-7k

my Throatcut deals 33102 +crit+zerk on her, i tought WTF? my wep is r9 daggers +7

then i just did Throatcut zerk+crit n deals 20k on her, wolf emblem was ON, so what happened? there's something about Zerk come first then crit, or crit then zerk?

the image:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/33k.png/

tell me pls D:
Post edited by SoulFeast - Harshlands on
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  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Okay so.. I know some people are really uptight and hide a lot of stuff in their screen shots, but why are you hiding your HP and xp? I mean.. really.. are you that paranoid?

    Some people these days...
  • SoulFeast - Harshlands
    SoulFeast - Harshlands Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    you are interested in my hp/exp ? answer or leave.
  • VenoMKII - Harshlands
    VenoMKII - Harshlands Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    you are interested in my hp/exp ? answer or leave.

    Gooner! :OOO

    Additionally, you must be forgetting a little thing called weapon damage range. 1st hit was likely close to your maximum potential and the latter closer to your minimum.
  • SoulFeast - Harshlands
    SoulFeast - Harshlands Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    oh, wait what? range of meters u mean? explain me please D:, idk how it work, if there rule of that, yea i'm noob about that lol >.< ty
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    oh, wait what? range of meters u mean? explain me please D:, idk how it work, if there rule of that, yea i'm noob about that lol >.< ty
    Uhhh...the range of damage. XXXX - XXXX on the weapon, and on your character info screen. Its not set amount of damage. Its a range from one value to another. "Physical Attack 500 - 700" or whatever.

    And you whited out some skills too? That's odd o.O
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    oh, wait what? range of meters u mean? explain me please D:, idk how it work, if there rule of that, yea i'm noob about that lol >.< ty

    ...

    What he means is this:

    Say you have a damage range of 10,000 - 18,000. You get a crit and now you're looking at 20,000-36,000. Say you get a zerk on that, it's going up to 40,000-72,000. At first, you had a range of 8,000 damage, then 16,000 and finally as much as 32,000.

    Also, as my example might point out, the damage ranges between a) a high regular hit and a low crit b) a high crit and a low zerk crit are kinda blending together, especially when you add defenses to that, as defenses will scale the damage down, making the differences smaller.

    To make it simple: A zerk crit has a massive range of damage and seeing a variance of 12,000 damage shouldn't really surprise you.

    It really just means you don't understand numbers.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • VenoMKII - Harshlands
    VenoMKII - Harshlands Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    oh, wait what? range of meters u mean? explain me please D:, idk how it work, if there rule of that, yea i'm noob about that lol >.< ty

    ..... You are so stupid, and paranoid, it amazes me to the point where I literally sat here for 2 minutes staring at my screen going "WTF!" in my head.

    However, now that has passed, il lay it out for you without attack levels because im lazy.(Im no archer, so 'scuse my dodgy method).

    Skill damage x 2 (Zerk) x 2 (Crit, 2.3/2.4 with wolf) / 4 (PvP reduction is 75%) = damage output.

    Your atk would, at a guess, 450 Dex, +7, 2 Garnet Gems R8 +R9 rings (Gear atk total of 1472 - 1787) approximately be 7586-9509. Low end - high end of atk range. Now we do the maths (Assuming level 11 Throatcut LV10 (Normal) Wolf Emblem ) :

    High End Wolf Emblem Zerk Crit
    (((9509 + 7331 + 1787 = 18627) x2 = 37254) x 2.3 = 85684) /4 = 21421 damage.

    Low End Wolf Emblem Zerk Crit :
    (((7586 + 7331 + 1472 = 16371) x2 = 32742) x2.3 = 75306) / 4 = 18826 damage.

    High End Zerk Crit :
    (((9509 + 7331 + 1787 = 18627) x2 = 37254) x 2 = 74508) / 4 = 18627 damage.

    Low End Zerk Crit

    (((7586 + 7331 + 1472 = 16371) x2 = 32742) x2 = 65484) /4 = 16371 damage.

    ~Attack levels make it differ a little more, but now ive done that, the difference you claim appears impossible. Are you sure your "friend" didnt switch blessings or had a defence debuff / buff for one of the hits?or you didnt have a buff run out on the second hit ?

    ~~~Oh, additionally : Damage range is why Venomancers tend to hate on their Rank 8/9 Pataka. The damage is unreliable. Assassins however love it. Thay can crit harder than +10 Barrier Thorn on a good day at +3 :D
  • SoulFeast - Harshlands
    SoulFeast - Harshlands Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    my phy atack atm is 7772-9791

    x2 perfect gem

    you said :

    ''It really just means you don't understand numbers.''

    like i said, i don't know about this rule thing, never knew it, not that i don't understend lol.

    So low hit is 7772 + " what ? " + "what " = my damage?

    explain what is what there pls, i want calculate others.

    Atack lvl 115

    And no, was just that.
  • VenoMKII - Harshlands
    VenoMKII - Harshlands Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    my phy atack atm is 7772-9791

    x2 perfect gem

    you said :

    ''It really just means you don't understand numbers.''

    like i said, i don't know about this rule thing, never knew it, not that i don't understend lol.

    So low hit is 7772 + " what ? " + "what " = my damage?

    explain what is what there pls, i want calculate others.

    Atack lvl 115

    And no, was just that.

    Skill damage is layed out clear as day on the skill its self. Base (What you see on your "C" screen) + Gear (The numbers on your weapon, rings, necklace (Lionheart has +Patk if you look) combined) + skill itself. (7331 for level 11 Throat).

    Again :

    Base + (Weapon + gear) + Skill.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    And we all wonder why older players are quitting.... ........ .. .... .
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • SoulFeast - Harshlands
    SoulFeast - Harshlands Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Oh really, thank you, but u can explain the 33102k damage? its right or not? atack lvl 95, but with frenzy that was on = 115.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    my phy atack atm is 7772-9791

    x2 perfect gem

    you said :

    ''It really just means you don't understand numbers.''

    like i said, i don't know about this rule thing, never knew it, not that i don't understend lol.

    So low hit is 7772 + " what ? " + "what " = my damage?

    explain what is what there pls, i want calculate others.

    Atack lvl 115

    And no, was just that.

    There is no way to tell what is your exact minimum damage, as that depends on a ton of factors, including opponent's defense level and physical defense. Also, just from your damage range, it's not possible to tell what's the maximum damage you'll deal using some skill.

    You have to understand that knowing the exact parameters is a) only possible to a small extent b) not relevant. Really, the best way to get familiar with your damage is to just look at the numbers you get and get used to them. I consider myself decently familiar with the damage formulae in the game and I don't even try to bother with figuring how exactly how large my damage range is or what would constitute a "high damage hit".
    Oh really, thank you, but u can explain the 33102k damage? its right or not? atack lvl 95, but with frenzy that was on = 115.

    It happened in the game so obviously it's right.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • VenoMKII - Harshlands
    VenoMKII - Harshlands Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    Oh really, thank you, but u can explain the 33102k damage? its right or not? atack lvl 95, but with frenzy that was on = 115.

    115 attack levels is more or less 115% more damage. A little more than double what is stated in my maths. Then modified by your opponents defences and defence levels, which are both complicated and archer territory, so I cant help you. I just go with the flow when I lay down a hard *** hit on something.
  • SoulFeast - Harshlands
    SoulFeast - Harshlands Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Can you explain me how i can calculate Atack lvl +1 , how much it does diff on hits?

    for i see if it really worth or not ?
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    VenoMKII - Harshlands wrote: »
    Skill damage is layed out clear as day on the skill its self. Base (What you see on your "C" screen) + Gear (The numbers on your weapon, rings, necklace (Lionheart has +Patk if you look) combined) + skill itself. (7331 for level 11 Throat).

    Again :

    Base + (Weapon + gear) + Skill.

    Weapon + gear damage is already factored into base damage. Attack level is not
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    Can you explain me how i can calculate Atack lvl +1 , how much it does diff on hits?

    for i see if it really worth or not ?

    The accurate means of counting an attack level are a bit too out there to be relevant.

    A good rule of thumb for attack levels is that 1 attack level adds roughly 1% damage. It's not exact, but it's "good enough".
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • VenoMKII - Harshlands
    VenoMKII - Harshlands Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    Can you explain me how i can calculate Atack lvl +1 , how much it does diff on hits?

    for i see if it really worth or not ?

    ~1% more of your final attack output per attack level. 100 atk levels = ~100% more damage.

    If you dont get that, then theres no hope. Additionally, im damn sure the attack level calculations have been done multiple times, use an advanced google search and good luck understanding those if you didnt understand this.
  • VenoMKII - Harshlands
    VenoMKII - Harshlands Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Weapon + gear damage is already factored into base damage. Attack level is not

    This is for use of a skill (Throatcut). Base + gear + numbers. Its added again if the skill demands it. (Hence the reason Earthen Rift is an absolutely evil skill with a +12 weapon).
  • Asurr - Heavens Tear
    Asurr - Heavens Tear Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SoulFeast - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well, today i was just playing with friend sin in pvp, she's 102 hp arround 6-7k

    my Throatcut deals 33102 +crit+zerk on her, i tought WTF? my wep is r9 daggers +7

    then i just did Throatcut zerk+crit n deals 20k on her, wolf emblem was ON, so what happened? there's something about Zerk come first then crit, or crit then zerk?

    the image:

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/33k.png/

    tell me pls D:

    *facepalm*

    how do u not know this?
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Asurr - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *facepalm*

    how do u not know this?

    Most likely they've been playing for a week :D
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Daialura - Heavens Tear
    Daialura - Heavens Tear Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Most likely they've been playing for a week :D

    Seems to be the current state of the game. 105 first, lrn2play later.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    And still too squishy...
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    too bad you cant CS and goon math
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Daialura - Heavens Tear
    Daialura - Heavens Tear Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    too bad you cant CS and goon math

    Best laugh I've had all day! b:thanks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    And still too squishy...
  • ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver
    ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    This rank 9 cashshopping goonz glitching sin is dumb as fuuuck.... lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    I think you should have asked this question 90 levels ago?
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    There's not a facepalm that does this justice.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    And this, everyone, is why being able to cash shop your R9+12 105s who can roll the rest of the server while being utterly **** is NOT a good thing.

    http://oi55.tinypic.com/2wqr3ub.jpg
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited October 2011
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    This is exactly why I don't do random squads anymore. If you don't know basic game mechanics by 103 you don't deserve my heals.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    By the way...

    You had mail, did you get it ?
    Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited October 2011
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    Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Most likely they've been playing for a week :D

    My bet is it's a troll b:avoid

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