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Mystics Are Not Clerics

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  • RosangeIa - Heavens TearRosangeIa - Heavens Tear Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Hmm. Well I read most of this thread thusfar and I thought it'd fit to add that while I would LOVE to just DD once in a while in FF squads, most of the time I end up the solo healer. I don't mind it really, I was a full-time cleric for 2 years prior to this toon (with breaks from PWI altogether in there before the mystic lol). I enjoy keeping people safe I guess it's just my nature. My cleric was my second toon on this game after a veno, and I loved it a lot. So when mystic came out I was like "Yay a combo of my faves with other new things in there too". lol. I know people hate that comparison but to me it made sense. Even though summons are... quite a lot different than pets.

    Anyway my point in this is that, when random FFers are looking for "DDs" they're usually meaning aps Sins/BMs and/or Aps Barbs/Archers. I have tried to apply to these squads in the past and they usually say something along the lines of "we need sin (or whatever)". Then why not just SAY that? >_> I remember when TB expansion came out, after a while I couldn't get FF so easily with my veno either. DD soon became Sin or BM specific. Just like it does for many other instance, squad based activities.

    People are too focused on APS and such like that, they completely forget or don't care about the other possibilities. Anyone notice how few wizards there are these days?

    I made a sin when TB came out and I do enjoy it, but I get bored with it sometimes. I geared her up specifically so I could make money for my other characters like my mystic. Problem is I find myself playing it more than this toon (and I prefer mystic, greatly) simply because a sin is in more demand for certain activities. :/

    Soooo idk. In a way it seems like there is no other choice but to be completely the healer in instances or end up "gtfo'ing" because that's only what people want or demand. You can stay on a high horse and demand only to DD all you want, but I say good luck to you in doing so... because you'll find yourself with fewer possibilities. In my humble opinion you should try to embrace all aspects of your class. Even sins and BMs fail to do this these days.

    I still remember once in my 90s I joined a BH79 squad only to be booted shortly after because the leader found a sin instead of me and wanted them instead.

    I mean seriously? People are just rude sometimes. Blacklist them and never talk to em again haha.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • brazenbusboybrazenbusboy Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    It always amazes me how so many people are so impatient to fill a squad and start their instance that they will try to substitute other professions for the tank and the cleric.

    Doing just one is risky. Doing both is madness, yet I see it frequently in random BH squads.

    They would rather get started now, and then waste 30 to 45 minutes that leads to an eventual squad wipe, than wait another 15 minutes for a cleric or tank to come forward at the platform.

    It is wonderful that some professions can fill in 'briefly' with other roles, but too many people think they are replacements.
    Just some guy
  • Brillance - Raging TideBrillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Thats what I mean about luck - finally get to 90 and find myself in "Faction Limbo" lol.

    My app is now in Eniyo. I hope I get the votes. b:cute
  • Brillance - Raging TideBrillance - Raging Tide Posts: 1,643 Arc User
    edited October 2011

    Soooo idk. In a way it seems like there is no other choice but to be completely the healer in instances or end up "gtfo'ing" because that's only what people want or demand. You can stay on a high horse and demand only to DD all you want, but I say good luck to you in doing so... because you'll find yourself with fewer possibilities. In my humble opinion you should try to embrace all aspects of your class. Even sins and BMs fail to do this these days.

    I still remember once in my 90s I joined a BH79 squad only to be booted shortly after because the leader found a sin instead of me and wanted them instead.

    I mean seriously? People are just rude sometimes. Blacklist them and never talk to em again haha.

    I never demand to DD, but I dont demand to heal either. In all honesty its a lot of pressure to put on a Mystic (at least at low levels), which is not to say they cant pull it off. But as Ive already said - I have to DD some to maintain sparks for my Vital Herb. So telling me "just heal' means no Vital Herb for you! lol.

    People will ask me to heal if they cant find any clerics, and I usually comply - except on certain bosses that require reliable skills I dont have. I was doing a BH69 this morning that simply couldnt find a cleric. We were going to skip Polearm until someone found a bored 101 Sin to join in. Yes, not just shopping - I seem to also be on a 101 Sin luck streak. xD

    I will answer the ads for DD. If they give me any **** about not being a DD char, I explain that I am, as well as heal support. Sometimes I get an invite, but even if I dont - hopefully those players have at least had an opportunity to consider a Mystic for another time they need DD.

    I honestly dont see a lot of Wizzies or Psys in squads. And, I confess - I was jealous of Psys as a low level. They seemed more powerful than I could ever have hoped to be.

    There seem to be a lot of mystics on my server now, or at least more than when I first made this one - and hopefully with exposure people will become more accustomed to using them - fully. I remember when I met my first level 100 Mystic helping out a low level squad. All I could think to say was, "wow". He was like - "lolwut?" And I said, "Sorry, but Ive never seen a high level Mystic before." as I checked out his gear.

    Its sort of depressing to think I will be stuck in the role of 'second-string' cleric for as long as I play the char. But, I can still hope to see that change.

    Hopefully the rude, stupid, and simply close-minded will open themselves up a little more to the idea - or those coming behind them will just be smarter, due to exposure.
  • Eniyo - Raging TideEniyo - Raging Tide Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    my App Is Now In Eniyo. I Hope I Get The Votes. B:cute

    Good Luck :d
  • RosangeIa - Heavens TearRosangeIa - Heavens Tear Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I understand. Sorry I didn't mean only you specifically (far as demanding to only DD goes) I was speaking more in general.

    I know before you're about 85ish (at least that's when I started being the solo healer in FF) solo healing is not all that great. A lot of it does hinge on peoples' skill level (in terms of how well they play their own class) as well as yours (along with gear). Even as a cleric if you have some really nubby Barbs, Sins or BMs you will struggle to keep their dumb arses alive at times. lol Oh the stories I could tell of my cleric days haha.

    So yeah I understand it can be difficult. When people used to grab me from world chat before I was yet accustomed to solo healing for FF I would always state that I was still new to it (in a sense) and that I wasn't a cleric. Thankfully those random squads knew that and were confident more in their own abilities to run the instance properly, and were more than willing to prepare if something didn't go exactly right. Those runs always went smoothly. Running with competent people is absolutely a must.

    Eventually your skill will become better known with people you have run FF with before and you'll make friends that you'll go with regularly just like I did. It helps immensely when you go with people you know because you'll have a system down.

    And just as a side note, far as people seeing how nice having mystics around really is, I was running a lot of Nirvana with my guildies over this last x2. My sin had JUST turned 100 in the first x2 week, so getting keys on her was limited. I couldn't run Nirvy with her but 3 times a day pretty much. So I'd replace her with my mystic. This was before we all had our 4 aps, and none of us were any kind of +10. So having healing and vital herbs ended up being a god send. And poison effects from bosses was a lot less brutal since I have the sage heal with 25% purify. Along with the herbs, my healing, and their triple sparks surviving bosses was pretty easy. I have to say I enjoy Nirvana as my mystic far more than my cleric because I could throw down herbs and most of the time that'd be enough healing for the squad and I could focus on DDing and hitting with Craggy.

    Sure things didn't go quite as fast if I didn't have my sin, but no one ever complained. Even after all our aps toons had 3.33 (5.0 with spark) it was nice having my mystic in squad.

    But then again my guild is pretty chill about Nirvy and stuff like that. How long it takes didn't matter, we just enjoyed eachother's company regardless (and helping eachother get our needed Nirvana mats was rewarding too).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Marista - Lost CityMarista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I understand. Sorry I didn't mean only you specifically (far as demanding to only DD goes) I was speaking more in general.

    I know before you're about 85ish (at least that's when I started being the solo healer in FF) solo healing is not all that great. A lot of it does hinge on peoples' skill level (in terms of how well they play their own class) as well as yours (along with gear). Even as a cleric if you have some really nubby Barbs, Sins or BMs you will struggle to keep their dumb arses alive at times. lol Oh the stories I could tell of my cleric days haha.

    So yeah I understand it can be difficult. When people used to grab me from world chat before I was yet accustomed to solo healing for FF I would always state that I was still new to it (in a sense) and that I wasn't a cleric. Thankfully those random squads knew that and were confident more in their own abilities to run the instance properly, and were more than willing to prepare if something didn't go exactly right. Those runs always went smoothly. Running with competent people is absolutely a must.

    Eventually your skill will become better known with people you have run FF with before and you'll make friends that you'll go with regularly just like I did. It helps immensely when you go with people you know because you'll have a system down.


    Your points about difficulty are entirely valid. However, I do not believe that the difficulty is what she's really concerned about--rather, the idea that people try to railroad mystic into exclusively playing a role that, for someone playing for the whole range of the class's abilities will find boring and wasteful. The issue is not so much about ability as desire...

    On a related note, I think it's worth mentioning that Lv 1 mp aura in gv wasn't enough to keep my mp from going down if I was spamming heals on myself for chi, whilst cleric in BB has no trouble... Ie, spam healing on a mystic uses mp faster than bb does.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • tweakztweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    It always amazes me how so many people are so impatient to fill a squad and start their instance that they will try to substitute other professions for the tank and the cleric.

    There is no class called "tank", and cleric doesn't mean "my healing biotch". Some people just can't adapt; like those cleric's spam healing my 4.0 base sage +10 assassin as if the BP isn't overkill already. Dimensional Seal would be better for healing and dmg but no.. some people think all clerics should do is sit there spam healing all day. -Are you one of those?
    They would rather get started now, and then waste 30 to 45 minutes that leads to an eventual squad wipe, than wait another 15 minutes for a cleric or tank to come forward at the platform.

    Squad wipes are typically caused by bad players regardless of class.
    It is wonderful that some professions can fill in 'briefly' with other roles, but too many people think they are replacements.

    From a long time high level cleric playing an 8x mystic; "mystic is much better at healing than cleric". Cleric has purify which really doesn't carry much weight anymore.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Marista - Lost CityMarista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    From a long time high level cleric playing an 8x mystic; "mystic is much better at healing than cleric". Cleric has purify which really doesn't carry much weight anymore.

    That's just a completely silly perspective. Clerics have purify, ironheart, and BB, none of which a mystic has an equivalent to, and mystics use quite a bit more mp, as illustrated by my example above. Mystics have Falling Petals and Salvation, which clerics cannot match. These are useful, but ultimately weaker measures in pve. Petal is only good because it can potentially last longer than an IH for situations where only minor damage is being taken, whilst the shield can save a squishy who has taken agro briefly, both situations best used in compliment to cleric healing.

    Ultimately, purify is still a valuable tool in serious situations. If you seriously believe that clerics aren't better healers, I can only imagine your pve is limited to lightweight instances such as Frost and NV where a healer beyond paint is entirely optional in the first place. If you're not serious, keep your trolling out of here. <.<;
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • Baby_pho - Heavens TearBaby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    tweakz wrote: »
    From a long time high level cleric playing an 8x mystic; "mystic is much better at healing than cleric". Cleric has purify which really doesn't carry much weight anymore.

    you sir must be a crapy cleric... mystic is more versitile, more fun to play because it is more challenging if you want the healing roll. Ill give a few examples to compair them even though they are not at all resemble each other.

    1)clerics gives squad buff which mystic canot making heals easier since people have better pdef/mdef. and sins can have unlimited stealth with mp/hp buff. mages gets mag attck bonus. this helps loads with mage aoe in instances like rb/ff/zen parties.

    2)cleric's debuff is 40% phys and 35% mag( if u have sage/demon) while mystic is 20%. this makes killing way faster with cleric's debuff in any situation.

    3) you can nnot compair stacked ih/purify with break in the cloud/falling petals(comfort mist if you are demon). especially if you are demon mystic. not to mention sage ih gives extra 10%hp and demon with spirit's gift u gain extra 150% to your magic making cleric's heal/purify more efficient and faster. (not to mention wop cleric's 79 skill. can be cast in sticky situation)

    mystics does have healing herb/vital plants but the range can only go so far when you want to heal from range to get away from steelation's sleep for example.(healer sleep= cant heal/no purify= squad wipe while tanker gets no heal. and mystic's purify arent reliable at all)

    4)the sheild sally gives it is good yes. but cleric's demon sor/sage vanguard spirit gives addistional 100% phys defense this canot be compair with a 5% bonus+w/e it absorb that sally's sheild gives.

    5) im not even goign to compair bb to the healing herb/vital plants. because plants can die in aoe. bb cuts the dmg u take in by 50%.

    6)dont compair mystic's aoe heal comfort mist with cleric's chromatic healing beam. cleric's has better cool down. cleric's 1600hp+25% vs. mystic's 1200hp+20%

    7)I gota say tho mystic's res buff is better than a cleric's if you dont care about exp lost with demon 100 hp upon resurect sage is still good with 50%. but in instances you gota remember to recast em.

    people who thinks mystics heals better than clerics must have met some noob clers. I do admit mystics can heal in certain instances but they do not do a better job at healing/debuff than a cleric. yes i do play both class if i wanted to dd i'd go on my mystic for the fun when i dont want to heal. i hate how mystic's constantly being compair to a veno/wiz/psy/cleric. they are their own class with their own special skills.
  • TanisHawkeye - DreamweaverTanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    tweakz wrote: »
    There is no class called "tank", and cleric doesn't mean "my healing biotch". Some people just can't adapt; like those cleric's spam healing my 4.0 base sage +10 assassin as if the BP isn't overkill already. Dimensional Seal would be better for healing and dmg but no.. some people think all clerics should do is sit there spam healing all day. -Are you one of those?

    Squad wipes are typically caused by bad players regardless of class.

    From a long time high level cleric playing an 8x mystic; "mystic is much better at healing than cleric". Cleric has purify which really doesn't carry much weight anymore.

    In order:

    "Tank" refers to anything with high health and the ability to soak hits, so while a "tank" class may not exist, the category of "tank" usually falls to barbs, bms, and occasionally sins and seekers. If you try to have a magic class holding aggro from a boss at their level they are usually dead in a few hits.

    Cleric often does end up the healing bitch, mainly because no one likes dying and clerics rarely make a marked increase in dps by spamming plume shot and cyclone unless they are massively overleveled because they are helping someone lower than them. It's not that clerics cant do damage, it's that people would rather be safe than sorry. Plus fewer attacks means clerics get to save mana, always nice b:victory

    A good cleric will let you die a little bit, just to gauge how fast they need to heal you. Some like to just spam IH til their keyboard breaks, but the good players will heal you just enough to keep you at close to full. Also until you get high leveled, clerics have limited spirit, so don't expect people to level the debuffs on a cleric when they barely have enough to get all their attacks and buffs maxed out. Hell I'm sure people would rather get sage/demon skills before going back to level the seals just because of how little use they get outside of boss fights.

    Typically yes, but not always. Squad composition can be a major factor. For bosses you need something to take hits and something to heal it, whether that's barb + cleric, veno with herc, mystic + bm, or whatever, you can't have the boss killing your squishy classes. Most of the time a squad wipe is because the squishies died and nothing was left to heal or the tanks bit off more than they could chew and were unable to be healed fast enough. Yes a lot of this can be chocked up to bad players, but have 6 magic classes try to tank a physical boss and it likely wont end well.

    Also I have a mystic and a cleric too, and I really wonder how much you have to fail at being a cleric to be at the same ability to heal as a mystic. Plants pretty much are useless against bosses with physical aoe, because either you'll die placing the plant in range of your tank or the plant will die after you've placed it, either way you're plants do almost nothing. You can use a squad heal but as already shown, cleric heals more than mystic. Mystic has a fast heal for a medium amount of hp, that's about it, and most people would rather have stacked IH than a mystic holding down the cloud break button. And don't even get me started on mp per hp efficiency, it's disgusting how much more mp efficient clerics are than mystics, part of which stems from their self-buff which gives regen, and another part of which is that a quick IH in between mobs keeps your tanks in top form.

    Basically I'm saying you're http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
  • tweakztweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    you sir must be a crapy cleric... mystic is more versitile, more fun to play because it is more challenging if you want the healing roll. Ill give a few examples to compair them even though they are not at all resemble each other.

    You must be a crappy player in general. I'm not saying Mystics are Clerics; you quote me saying a good cleric said Mystics are better healers.
    1)clerics gives squad buff which mystic canot making heals easier since people have better pdef/mdef. and sins can have unlimited stealth with mp/hp buff. mages gets mag attck bonus. this helps loads with mage aoe in instances like rb/ff/zen parties

    Cleric squad buffs are 1 hour, and easily obtained. Sins unlimited stealth? - trollololol. Mystic Herbs have similar effects to those buffs.

    .
    2)cleric's debuff is 40% phys and 35% mag( if u have sage/demon) while mystic is 20%. this makes killing way faster with cleric's debuff in any situation.

    Except that every other class has better phys debuff, either leaves the cleric vulnerable, they take time to channel/cast, and they do no dmg of their own.
    3) you can nnot compair stacked ih/purify with break in the cloud/falling petals(comfort mist if you are demon). especially if you are demon mystic. not to mention sage ih gives extra 10%hp and demon with spirit's gift u gain extra 150% to your magic making cleric's heal/purify more efficient and faster. (not to mention wop cleric's 79 skill. can be cast in sticky situation)

    Purify? - Most of us don't even need that ever.
    5) im not even goign to compair bb to the healing herb/vital plants. because plants can die in aoe. bb cuts the dmg u take in by 50%.

    Regeneration Aura doesn't get knocked down?
    6)dont compair mystic's aoe heal comfort mist with cleric's chromatic healing beam. cleric's has better cool down. cleric's 1600hp+25% vs. mystic's 1200hp+20%

    Cleric doesn't have herb to supplement.
    people who thinks mystics heals better than clerics must have met some noob clers.

    trololol.. never brought it up.

    I do admit mystics can heal in certain instances but they do not do a better job at healing/debuff than a cleric.

    i didn't mention debuff trololol

    they are their own class with their own special skills.

    -With that I don't disagree.
    In order:

    "Tank" refers to anything with high health and the ability to soak hits, so while a "tank" class may not exist, the category of "tank" usually falls to barbs, bms, and occasionally sins and seekers.

    Do you even play this game? Have you never seen range / mag tanking or how a Lv.95 veno can solo a World Boss with a common pet, or how a modestly equipped mage can solo BHD while heavily invested melee classes can't? You should spend less time professing and more time learning.
    If you try to have a magic class holding aggro from a boss at their level they are usually dead in a few hits.

    -nub talk
    Cleric often does end up the healing bitch, mainly because no one likes dying and clerics rarely make a marked increase in dps by spamming plume shot and cyclone unless they are massively overleveled because they are helping someone lower than them. It's not that clerics cant do damage, it's that people would rather be safe than sorry. Plus fewer attacks means clerics get to save mana, always nice b:victory

    I save mana by attacking quote often. Clerics shouldn't have to sit there spam healing some cheap vit pos build that's just mooching when they can kill faster.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • _Grandpa - Raging Tide_Grandpa - Raging Tide Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    kalshomin wrote: »
    now one last time MYSTICS ARE NOT CLERICS thank you that is all


    Mystics are no clerics but they can be useful if the cleric fails to heal others in squad. Happened to members of my faction: cleric didn't attack, just healed himself and watched the others. Got a lot of nice pm's when i asked (via wc) failclerics to join my faction. Many wanted to kill me... lol.... so they can do more than heal themself. With the ressurection buff and nice attacks Mystics can always join my squad, but for the clerics... hell...just check if they can do anything for the squad or else kick them out. I've seen to many players don't do anything to get their BH,TT,.. quests.

    See you all in the game.

    b:bye
  • Baby_pho - Heavens TearBaby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    tweakz wrote: »
    You must be a crappy player in general. I'm not saying Mystics are Clerics; you quote me saying a good cleric said Mystics are better healers.

    i quote YOU saying that not another cleric saying that u said "From a long time high level cleric(your?) playing an 8x mystic; "mystic is much better at healing than cleric". Cleric has purify which really doesn't carry much weight anymore." and i didnt say you said mystics are clerics...
    Cleric squad buffs are 1 hour, and easily obtained. Sins unlimited stealth? - trollololol. Mystic Herbs have similar effects to those buffs.

    if a cleric buff u for 1 hour y wouldnt he/she heal u in the instance. unless they pay the cleric to buff them so they can solo and get all the drops for themselves. you are taking clerics for granted. mystic's plants arent always going to be out. and yes some sins does complain about the regenbuff if they dont get it so they stealth through the whole sot to kill the guard.
    Except that every other class has better phys debuff, either leaves the cleric vulnerable, they take time to channel/cast, and they do no dmg of their own.

    every other class? the only class i can think of barb/bm that has the same phys debuff that's better than cleric. and 1 barbs arent always there. 2 bm always uses hf instead of glacial spike. and if the tank hits mob/boss then cleric wouldnt be vulnerable and it takes less than a second to purify. it stacks with other debuffs. sage veno does the same debuff 40%. demon veno's iron wood arent reliable and so are their myraid(79 skill with no sage or demon effect)
    Purify? - Most of us don't even need that ever.

    i think you are generalizing a lil bit. i use it daily in tt. i farm/live in tt. but yeah there are people/factions that does tt for coins and doesnt cashshop. those like me need purify quite often thanks. and i just gave u example of steelation(there are ofc more but let's not name em all) in tt if you did not read it on my above post.
    Regeneration Aura doesn't get knocked down?

    fair enough, i can also say it takes long to put up bb again...? and how often does bb get knock down? in rb wave 3? that's when bb is needed the most. in sot? in aba? a quick chromatic heal can get people's hp up. bb in warsong is way better than healing herb it doesnt get knock down there(except when bb is put up bfor pulling runer). there is constant aoe in warsong where the healing plants will die bfor it can heal anything probably.
    Cleric doesn't have herb to supplement.
    herb doesnt die in aoe? and it takes longer for a mystic to cast herb+ their aoe heal. than a cleric doing chromatic heal.
    trololol.. never brought it up.

    i thought u did as i said above. i wasnt trolling... maybe u were...?
  • RosangeIa - Heavens TearRosangeIa - Heavens Tear Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Well without getting into the cleric vs mystic argument too much, I will say that from playing both extensively now, I think both are good for healing but obviously the cleric will always be the better choice. The problem i have run into more is not having one that's skilled lol. So I end up picking up the slack...

    That is actually how I started solo healing in FFs in the first place. Either the cleric absolutely sucked, or they'd d/c and I'd just help finish the instance anyway since finding another one was always particularly difficult.

    I still feel the urge to blame power leveling for the lack of skilled players these days, but there were some bad players even before all this plvl craze.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Safeng - SanctuarySafeng - Sanctuary Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This feels like a weird thing to say but.. I have to agree with tweakz here.
    When it comes down to healing, just healing, no buffs or stuff, mystics are at least equal to clerics imo.

    Aoe healing... cleric got chromatic healing beam, BB with a nice dmg reduction on top. Mystics got the same in aoe heal, but herbs instead of BB. As for being interrupted.. Aoes can knock down BB as well. And healing herb got an evasion buff like the tb do, so it's not guaranteed to die. Vital herb is just epic. Squishy and short duration but the healing effect is strong.
    Plus, a cleric in BB can't do much but use genie skills. A mystic with her herbs down can attack, heal, whatever she wants to do.


    As for single healing.. Yes, clerics got IH, which is like the most amazing heal ever and stacks. But on the same hand mystics got a heal that you can put on someone and it will activate wheneever the person gets hit. Sweet sweet preventive measure. And we also got an extremly short channleing heal. Comparable to wellspring maybe. I think those two heals can at least make the same impact as IH, if not even more.if it comes down to stacking people so they get heals in emergencies, mystic wins here.


    Purify... Sure, you can't run a BH69 in the appropriate level range with just a mystic. But you won't get too much use of a nub cleric with level purify either to be fair. Me being sage I found a nice way to work around purify. Put herbs down, throw petals on the person, whenever they're debuffed break. 25% to remove all debuffs. If it doesn't proc, herbs and petals usually keep the person alive too. I healed 5k hp sins through bottle boss in fcc that way. Imo, if you face something really bad, like TT 3-1 GBA/Steelation or something you should have a squad with a cleric too. But that's the *hard* stuff. mystics can do a lot for everything else.

    I healed too many instances when we officially had a cleric but she/he was just too slow or fail to do anything to keep people alive b:surrender

    And yea, I got a level 100 cleric I started 3 years ago, too. So don't even try to nullify my arguments with the fact that I'm a fail cleric b:sweat
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Baby_pho - Heavens TearBaby_pho - Heavens Tear Posts: 636 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I was talking about a high end lvl cleric 100+(cos tweekz started saying "From a long time high level cleric" so i assume that's wut he's talking about) hence i was talking about bh 100s rb,warsong,sot,abba. and yes i have said that mystic can heal but to an extend(also with different situations like tank's lvls ect...if they do heal in lower instances like bh 89 and below) but it is very mana drain for them. yes i have gone to an sot/abba with a mystic healing(i was on my veno) but it was an aps squad everything die so quick that she doesnt even have to heal but most of us dont have that luxury of entering an aps squad all the time. when i talk about tt im not talking about 3-1. 3-2 and 3-3 almost all of the bosses their does aoe stun/mana burn/debuff constant where you have to purify constantly and/or sleep debuff where you have to heal from a far and healing herb cant reach because you cant put healing herb on a target and if you come in the range of sleep you cant do anything no heal=squad wipe as i mention before. not to mention the new mage nirvy with constant aoe/mob spawn(idk i havent seen any mystic take a try at healing these when im on my veno).(im not even going to talk about wb... ._.' hubby said let's atempt one with me n him im sure i will die there... he's crazy >.>'. but yeah ill tell you all about this experience of "solo" healing for wb if he ever convince me to do it >.>')

    I didnt reject the thought that mystic can heal they can yes but to an extend as i said also depending on situations of the squad(squad member's classes/lvls, the instances they are in ect...)
    If you seriously believe that clerics aren't better healers, I can only imagine your pve is limited to lightweight instances such as Frost and NV where a healer beyond paint is entirely optional in the first place. If you're not serious, keep your trolling out of here. <.<;

    completely agree with marista.
  • Marista - Lost CityMarista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This feels like a weird thing to say but.. I have to agree with tweakz here.
    When it comes down to healing, just healing, no buffs or stuff, mystics are at least equal to clerics imo.

    Aoe healing... cleric got chromatic healing beam, BB with a nice dmg reduction on top. Mystics got the same in aoe heal, but herbs instead of BB. As for being interrupted.. Aoes can knock down BB as well. And healing herb got an evasion buff like the tb do, so it's not guaranteed to die. Vital herb is just epic. Squishy and short duration but the healing effect is strong.
    Plus, a cleric in BB can't do much but use genie skills. A mystic with her herbs down can attack, heal, whatever she wants to do.


    As for single healing.. Yes, clerics got IH, which is like the most amazing heal ever and stacks. But on the same hand mystics got a heal that you can put on someone and it will activate wheneever the person gets hit. Sweet sweet preventive measure. And we also got an extremly short channleing heal. Comparable to wellspring maybe. I think those two heals can at least make the same impact as IH, if not even more.if it comes down to stacking people so they get heals in emergencies, mystic wins here.


    Purify... Sure, you can't run a BH69 in the appropriate level range with just a mystic. But you won't get too much use of a nub cleric with level purify either to be fair. Me being sage I found a nice way to work around purify. Put herbs down, throw petals on the person, whenever they're debuffed break. 25% to remove all debuffs. If it doesn't proc, herbs and petals usually keep the person alive too. I healed 5k hp sins through bottle boss in fcc that way. Imo, if you face something really bad, like TT 3-1 GBA/Steelation or something you should have a squad with a cleric too. But that's the *hard* stuff. mystics can do a lot for everything else.

    I healed too many instances when we officially had a cleric but she/he was just too slow or fail to do anything to keep people alive b:surrender

    And yea, I got a level 100 cleric I started 3 years ago, too. So don't even try to nullify my arguments with the fact that I'm a fail cleric b:sweat


    I fail to see how time spent playing really means anything as far as not being a fail. You could still be a terrible player--though, I'm not going to accuse you of that. I think your play just doesn't take you into many situations where clerics' superiority shines.

    Examples of situations where purify is required:
    MP drain bosses like Cannonfist Orclord, Ancient Evil: Lethal Vengeance, etc. For these bosses, if you get hit with the mp drain, you're going to have a lot of trouble keeping up your own mp while trying to heal unless you're lucky enough to have triple spark ready. Sage generally wouldn't be able to afford to stop healing the tank to spam their puri heal on themself, and forgot using mist if you're solo healing.

    Bosses that do a damage amp, such as Dark Collosueast, Steelation, and Illusion Lord: Armageddon. These amps can quite easily cause squad wipes, especially from bosses who also have nasty aoes, like Illusion Lord, or those who use then repeatedly like Collosueast. In the former case, squad members may not have triple spark ready, and in the latter it will often come right after the tank has sparked, and so the tank will have to endure the increased damage for quite a while. If he/she is the one unlucky enough to get Steelation's amp and isn't purified... Well, let's just say there were huge csers with 20k hp and vit stones qqing about getting oneshot the first night 3-3 was updated.

    These are just two examples of why purify is certainly not outdated. Now, there are also situations where BB is vital.

    The first of these that comes to mind is Warsong. I'm sorry, but I will never go to a warsong healed by a mystic only. The Dinos are nasty even with BB up, and they'd slaughter vital herb in about two seconds with how often they aoe. But BB rarely drops here if people aren't stupid. I also wouldn't want to try a legitimate snakefish run without bb to protect both the tank and the squad from the progressively stronger AoEs.

    Another is doing world bosses. Whilst their are a few (Sonic Oppressor comes to mind) that I can do with just non-bb healing, the majority of them I wouldn't touch without bb setup first because the magic spike frankly hurts like hell. With BB + heals or paint and cleric and barb buffs, I can solo a goodly number of them and do so when I happen to come upon them.

    So, I will accept if you believe a mystic is as good a healer as a cleric for some of the less challenging instances, such as Frost and Nirvana, but I will not cede any ground on this. I can only quite bluntly say that you are wrong to call mystics a better healer. And for the record, tweakz will be ignored for his fail trolling from this post onward. Go back to the veno forum, we don't need trolls like you here.

    @Baby_pho: Glad to hear you do. Soloing WBs is fun, isn't it? :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • thumbsthumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Examples of situations where purify is required:
    MP drain bosses like Cannonfist Orclord

    Your very first example and it's bunk? -seriously Cannonfist requires purify? b:chuckle -I must be delusional!
    Ancient Evil: Lethal Vengeance, etc.

    -There are so many ways to approach this beast that I'm sure you're wrong here too.
    If he/she is the one unlucky enough to get Steelation's amp and isn't purified... Well, let's just say there were huge csers with 20k hp and vit stones qqing about getting oneshot the first night 3-3 was updated.

    Lets just say it was approach and not ability related.
    These are just two examples of why purify is certainly not outdated.

    I wouldn't say it's outdated. One of my favorite skills for veno and assassin is self purification. I love it on my cleric as well.

    Now, there are also situations where BB is vital.

    The first of these that comes to mind is Warsong. I'm sorry, but I will never go to a warsong healed by a mystic only.


    You're the type of person that never learns because you refuse to learn. I solo warsong now because most people have no clue what they're doing there. They find some way that works and stick with it even though it's slow, just like they still think there's a way around the gluttonix c2d glitch in Disaster. -My bet is you still think there's a work around like taking quest when Gluttonix is less than 20% hp.

    The Dinos are nasty even with BB up, and they'd slaughter vital herb in about two seconds with how often they aoe

    They only aoe often if they're range tanked which happens because of nubs that refuse to learn.
    But BB rarely drops here if people aren't stupid.

    It shouldn't drop at all.
    So, I will accept if you believe a mystic is as good a healer as a cleric for some of the less challenging instances, such as Frost and Nirvana, but I will not cede any ground on this. I can only quite bluntly say that you are wrong to call mystics a better healer. And for the record, tweakz will be ignored for his fail trolling from this post onward. Go back to the veno forum, we don't need trolls like you here.

    lol; personal attacks are used as a disinformation tool: http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html
  • Marista - Lost CityMarista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    thumbs wrote: »
    Your very first example and it's bunk? -seriously Cannonfist requires purify? b:chuckle -I must be delusional!

    Obviously I'm not counting high interval squads who can drop it before the first beetles spawn. Some squads can also kill them, but in my experience most people fail this, and leave the bbing cleric to be mp drained.

    -There are so many ways to approach this beast that I'm sure you're wrong here too.

    Even if you use the archer method, if I was that archer and had an mp charm I'd damn well want purify. Any other method will have the mp burn being on several squad members, including the healer.

    Lets just say it was approach and not ability related.

    Or we could use arguments completely lacking any substance? I'm starting to assume you're just pulling this out of your hat anyway, so please, do share.


    You're the type of person that never learns because you refuse to learn. I solo warsong now because most people have no clue what they're doing there. They find some way that works and stick with it even though it's slow, just like they still think there's a way around the gluttonix c2d glitch in Disaster. -My bet is you still think there's a work around like taking quest when Gluttonix is less than 20% hp.

    Actually, I'm the kind of person who doesn't care enough about tabs to bother trying to get around that glitch. It's FB59--nonfactor exp and rep. /care. I'm someone who is interested in enjoying the game; I can solo ws bh too, if I feel so inclined, though I much prefer to have a squad of friends who'll help me do pavilions ahead of time and make the rest easier.

    But thank you--you've actually proved my point here. Yes, most people have no clue what they're doing. I'm not writing these exempla as places a exceptionally skilled squad would require purify, but rather as ones where an average, somewhat fail squad would require purify. I've said before that if you can solo heal and you really want to, have a field day, but since the average squad is usually not skilled and geared well enough to allow this, even if we all wanted to, it wouldn't work out most of the time.


    They only aoe often if they're range tanked which happens because of nubs that refuse to learn.

    Almost any monsters that are magic and physical both will use their magic--in this case ab AoE--every 10 seconds. With a low dd squad, that frequency is easily going to kill vital. And accidents happen, anyway; one can anticipate stupidity, but not so much the accidental failings of the intelligent.

    It shouldn't drop at all.

    I'm aware, but you can't guarantee it, just because ultimately there's a chance of even god's eye hits interrupting, even though it's very low. Almost any good argument needs qualifiers, for few things in life are absolute.

    lol; personal attacks are used as a disinformation tool: http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html

    My attack would only be ad hominem if my criticism of him was based off of unrelated matters. Because he trolls the veno forum with similarly inane ideas, it is not a fallacy in that capacity, nor is it even close to the extent of my arguments, but rather a coda to them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • Mekkhala - Lost CityMekkhala - Lost City Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have both a cleric and mystic (myst only at 95 tho)

    I think the main issue is that there aren't that many mystics...most squads (and even many mystics) don't quite understand what role they play in a party. Your roll will not be the same in every squad. It changes depending on what other classes are in the squad and their ability to play. Too many mystics box themselves into the "I am only a secondary cleric" stereotype.

    Great example...there was this one mystic that I squadded with for BH 100 that obviously loved healing. He loved it so much that even though I kept the squad at full health/buffed/ ect, he would continue to heal.
    I didn't say anything about his overzealous healing it since I didn't want to be the "cleric pooping on the mystic" type, but I was thinking that unless he learned how to adapt, he was going to be a huge waste of space in squads that had a good cleric.
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