Nirvana and Rank 9 Balance

Blade_aether - Lost City · October 2011

So we all know that R9 is not going anywhere anytime soon.

We also seem to be hearing a fair amount about R8 and R9 recasting.

Full R9 gives you 63 attack levels, before blessing. It also gives you 20 def levels, unless you are LA, which it gives 3 more on the Chest Piece.

Full 2nd cast NV gives 5 atk lvl and 13 def lvl without blessing.

I am sorry, but 5 atk lvl is in no way shape or form competitive with 63 atk lvl.

It would be actually fair to make it possible to give a 4th stat on 2nd cast weapons that gives 50 atk lvl. That way as full 2nd cast you would have 55. Still not 63.

Even if you did 5 piece R9 and a +50 atk lvl 2nd cast weapon, you still only have 63 atk lvls base, and you still only have 20 def lvls, which is equal to full R9.

It is in very few ways imbalanced to add 50 atk lvls to 2nd cast weapons, it would be a positive balancing feature, which would push people to shard more defensively. Which considering people people just go +12 R9 for unbeatable damage, if the 2nd caster could go toe to toe, it would be kinda fair...

This whole post is basically because I am butthurt over the fact that my +12 G15 God of Frenzy axes, and my 550 str still don't let me hit as hard as +10 full vit full R9 barbs, who are just face rolling. When the gear negates the need for a decent build, or even a tailored build, we have deviated too much from the skill involved in statting a character.

We should really start a movement to improve 2nd cast armor and weapons, rather than the 72$ R8 and the coveted R9, which is horribly over powered anyways.

Just not for free, make it like recasting again, and cost some sort of orb, like make it cost roughly what an R9 weapon would cost to manufacture this new 2nd cast weapon.

Blade_Aether
Wants Warsoul to have sex with his NV axes.

HardToThink - Lost City · October 2011

Blade_aether - Lost City wrote: »

So we all know that R9 is not going anywhere anytime soon.

We also seem to be hearing a fair amount about R8 and R9 recasting.

Full R9 gives you 63 attack levels, before blessing. It also gives you 20 def levels, unless you are LA, which it gives 3 more on the Chest Piece.

Full 2nd cast NV gives 5 atk lvl and 13 def lvl without blessing.

I am sorry, but 5 atk lvl is in no way shape or form competitive with 63 atk lvl.

It would be actually fair to make it possible to give a 4th stat on 2nd cast weapons that gives 50 atk lvl. That way as full 2nd cast you would have 55. Still not 63.

Even if you did 5 piece R9 and a +50 atk lvl 2nd cast weapon, you still only have 63 atk lvls base, and you still only have 10 def lvls, which is less than full 2nd cast AND full R9.

It is in very few ways imbalanced to add 50 atk lvls to 2nd cast weapons, it would be a positive balancing feature, which would push people to shard more defensively. Which considering people people just go +12 R9 for unbeatable damage, if the 2nd caster could go toe to toe, it would be kinda fair...

This whole post is basically because I am butthurt over the fact that my +12 G15 God of Frenzy axes, and my 550 str still don't let me hit as hard as +10 full vit full R9 barbs, who are just face rolling. When the gear negates the need for a decent build, or even a tailored build, we have deviated too much from the skill involved in statting a character.

We should really start a movement to improve 2nd cast armor and weapons, rather than the 72$ R8 and the coveted R9, which is horribly over powered anyways.

Just not for free, make it like recasting again, and cost some sort of orb, like make it cost roughly what an R9 weapon would cost to manufacture this new 2nd cast weapon.

Blade_Aether
Wants Warsoul to have sex with his NV axes.

I think 30 attack levels would be more fair, 30 attack levels on the second cast weapon with 20 more attack levels for a full set bonus.

hi aefers =]

Blade_aether - Lost City · October 2011

Honestly, you are more than likely right Bliss, 30 would be more appropriate, I am just super jelly because I want my pretty axes to at least compete with R9.

Between HH NV and CV NV I had 8 cosmetic options, between Poleaxe, Polehammer, Dual axe, and Dual Hammer. All effecting doing the same thing.

With R9, I get one option, an ugly poleaxe that doesn't match my fashion and bugs my toon out so there are holes in my fash.

On a more serious note, with the R8 recast and R9 recast coming out, they break their own TOS, saying that 'NO' endgame content will be available in Cash Shop. I am sorry, but how do people get R9 gear without Rank sale? Farm it? I just laughed.

There should at least be a farm ONLY equivalent to R9, and it should also allow the cosmetic options that Nirvana did, after all, half of the appeal of NV weapons was the cosmetic appeal.
(No, farming coin in NV and then changing it to gold to get R9 pieces does not equal farm only gear, it stills equals CS based gear)

Blade_Aether
Bliss<3

Salasyn - Heavens Tear · October 2011

I farmed all my Mysterious Chips from cube for rank 9.

b:avoid

not that I actually have rank 9, or ever will.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Second cast nirvy weapons can already have 30 attack levels, but it's quite rare and it comes in place of any other unique addon (God of Frenzy, -10% channel etc).

I'd support the idea of removing the option of 30 attack levels as a unique addon and instead always making it appear on a second cast nirvana weapon, and putting the other blue stats aswell as a unique addon on top of that...

...except for claws and fists.

gyroki · October 2011

Im sry to say that but its not worth to write here any improvement suggestions cz u r writing to a dead end. Btw, u can even get +10 attack lvls with nv gear - by using 2 different sets of nv (lunar based and hh based). But u would lose int bonus when u r doing it. Ofc, +10 attack lvls r still **** in comparision to r9 bonus. And yup, the whole r9 gear (like oht stuff) has an ugly look which dont fit with in-game environment. Ppl just still posing with it cz its expensive.

Btw i remember that a GM wrote something about 3rd cast gear before earthguard release. Has any1 still a link to this comment? And did they only write this to motivate ppl to invest in nv before they r throwing their money out for r9?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · October 2011

But.. then why would people cash shop for full R9 when they could just farm out full second cast Nirvana? Think of the money they'd lose b:sad

Olbaze - Sanctuary · October 2011

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Second cast nirvy weapons can already have 30 attack levels, but it's quite rare and it comes in place of any other unique addon (God of Frenzy, -10% channel etc).

It's actually 20.

Adding a chance to get a 4th stat on Nirvana would make Nirvana weapons ridiculously powerful. Well, for the cost anyway.

Can you imagine getting GoF, 50 Attack Levels, -0.05 interval and +130 Maximum damage? Well, let's just say that without the 50 Attack Levels, such a dagger would be superior to Rank 9. And we really don't need people running around with even more powerful gear.

Rank 9 is ridiculously expensive and ridiculously overpowered for any purpose in the game. It just means that our playerbase is screwed up. Because really, what does a full +12 Rank 9 player even do? I asked one and they said all they pretty much do is afk and TW. Well, that was a barb so that might've been a factor.

iwillfamous · October 2011

you are talking about cash gears Vs. non-cash gear. Why would PWI make Nirvana gears so decent ? and it might cut down their business on selling R9 ? I can say that your complain is going no where , lol.... "Free" game is always expensive to play to the top ~ xD

Envelope - Raging Tide · October 2011

iwillfamous wrote: »

"Free" game is always expensive to play to the top ~ xD

That's true, but with the rank 9 sales pwi has clearly gone too far. Even if you have to pay to get the best possible gear in-game. As has been stated by others before... you should at least be able to gear a single character WITHOUT having to take a mortgage on your house b:irritated

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Can you imagine getting GoF, 50 Attack Levels, -0.05 interval and +130 Maximum damage? Well, let's just say that without the 50 Attack Levels, such a dagger would be superior to Rank 9. And we really don't need people running around with even more powerful gear.

Yea... basically they should nerf rank 9 gear. Which of course they would never do. And this is why i think people should stop demanding to make anything more powerful. You know common sense doesn't exist for pwi's management. You know what's gonna happen:

Players: We have nirvana but can't compete with rank 9. Cant't you make nirvana gear more powerful?
GM: Hey, it seems alot of players are dissatisfied with their nirvana gears.
Manager: What's this, people aren't satisfied with the gears we added to the game?
Developer A: We need people to have better gears then.
Developer B: *adds rank 10 to boutique*
Players: *facedesk*

About 2 or 3 more months till this is happening. I'm pretty sure of it b:shocked

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · October 2011

Do you really want to see sins with +50 attack levels on their +12 GoF -int daggers? Not a very well thought out idea.

Valirah - Sanctuary · October 2011

A simple improvement that I'd like to see is to fill in the 3 and 4 piece NV set bonuses.

3 Pieces : +10 Def lvl
4 Pieces : -.05 Int / -3% Chan

While we're at it, replace that very lame +3 Def lvl 6 piece bonus with something a tad better, like +10 Att lvl or +5% HP.

The interval would allow people to finally ditch those hideous TT99 wrists and boots and still maintain the same the same APS (as a 4 piece bonus it can't be stacked).

Strife_son - Sanctuary · October 2011

While we're on the topic of improving nirvana, why not touch on the crappy adds you can get on recasted g15 nirvana weapons. While I'm sure some caster out there might argue there is value in getting str/dex on their g15 weapon, I fail to see the need for magic on any non-magic dd'ing weapon. It's such a horrible add u__u

Olbaze - Sanctuary · October 2011

Strife_son - Sanctuary wrote: »

While we're on the topic of improving nirvana, why not touch on the crappy adds you can get on recasted g15 nirvana weapons. While I'm sure some caster out there might argue there is value in getting str/dex on their g15 weapon, I fail to see the need for magic on any non-magic dd'ing weapon. It's such a horrible add u__u

But if you only could get useful mods, it wouldn't be fun at all.

I mean, don't you giggle every time you see a Dark Death Thorn with Sacrificial Strike, -0.05 interval and +18 Magic?

joor · October 2011

I wonder how fast a solo FCC will be with +50 attack levels on +12 GoF -int daggers b:avoid or any boss in the game...

Kerona - Sanctuary · October 2011

Nirvana is R8 Equivalent/Possible Superior, not R9 Equivalent.

If you're trying to compete with someone in R9 with Nirvana, and expecting them to adjust your vana to meet their R9, I don't know what I can say to help you.

Strife_son - Sanctuary · October 2011

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

But if you only could get useful mods, it wouldn't be fun at all.

I mean, don't you giggle every time you see a Dark Death Thorn with Sacrificial Strike, -0.05 interval and +18 Magic?

Nah cuz I'm in a similar situation >__>

It's just lame that it is added in there, when it really is of little use, and add to that the fact that magic stat seems to be one of the most common ones to get when you finally re-roll to something nice. Just remembered you can also get MP ._.

Traz - Dreamweaver · October 2011

It makes no sense to make nirvana equal to rank 9. The devs will simply say.... go get r9 then if you want to be equal. It also makes no sense that you would expect highly farmable gear to be equivalent to a (majority) cash shopped item in a free to play game.

Templar - Sanctuary · October 2011

To the OP

you are totaly right about r9 pole , i whant r9 dual axe for my barbi b:cry

It look SweeT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1euw7lZZwhw

TPstar - Sanctuary · October 2011

The cost of full nirvana set is about half of rank 9. The power of nirvana should be no where close to rank 9.

Swannx - Archosaur · October 2011

At least bolster Nirvana gear and stop messing with Rank gear, they don't need extra recast options, that was supposed to be a Nirvana thing. **, just keep shooting those of us who have Nirvana gear in the foot why don't you, it was a disaster already when r9 was released. b:angry

Templar - Sanctuary · October 2011

Also lunar nirvana is tradable , while when u get r9 for one toon you are preatty much stuck xD and some people like to share equps trought account stash

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear · October 2011

The whole conversation here is whether there should be comparable gear, the answer is not until there's better gear that requires greater effort. R9 may be cash based, but it is still 100% farmable. As it is, there is 100% farmable, without cash shopping, gear that's "competitive" with r9, that is nirvana stage 2 and warsoul weapons. (BTW Warsoul can also be cash shopped when rank sales are on).

You may say b:cry but it's so hard for a casual player to earn the coin for r9. Why are you a casual player? Work (you make money) school (you're going to make money) or you don't care about the game that much (you dont' need good gear).

The other end is "OMG! it's so hard to farm r9 for even the dedicated gamer!" I farmed 95% of mine in 5 months, when I couldn't run a second client for a shop, 5 months for end game gear in an MMO? That's not hard enough to even complain about.

All in all, quit your bitchin you whiny little lazy *** children who want everything handed to you on a silver platter.

When r9 rerolls come around, chances are that r9 will be getting even stronger, at that point, yes there should be a Nirvana stage 3 or another instance entirely. There's plenty of new ways they could concoct for armor to compete or excell over R9. Simplest stage 3 option, combine defenses from TT and lunar nirvana into a single gear type and make it 15 def level 40 atk level for the set. Effectively defensively stronger than r9 by a small margin but offensively weaker by a small margin as well.

They could also introduce a new armoring style with defense level based armor with no elemental or physical defense inherent to the gear. Or make a gear that refines defense level (1-15) and attack level (2-30).

Just a few thoughts.

Oh yeah, quit your bitchin.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Blade_aether - Lost City wrote: »

This whole post is basically because I am butthurt over the fact that my +12 G15 God of Frenzy axes, and my 550 str still don't let me hit as hard as +10 full vit full R9 barbs, who are just face rolling. When the gear negates the need for a decent build, or even a tailored build, we have deviated too much from the skill involved in statting a character.

I guess no one consider that r9 is suppose to be better then recast nirvana. But since we're on the topic of making every last piece of gear as strong as r9. I demand that my level 72 three star crescent moon bow be recasted to be able to hit as hard as my r9 bow... so a +200 attack level add on would be nice.

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I guess no one consider that r9 is suppose to be better then recast nirvana. But since we're on the topic of making every last piece of gear as strong as r9. I demand that my level 72 three star crescent moon bow be recasted to be able to hit as hard as my r9 bow... so a +200 attack level add on would be nice.

b:kissb:kiss

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2011

I'm appalled by the fact that someone wants a weapon that costs ~200 gold cheaper to be just as effective.

Valirah - Sanctuary · October 2011

TPstar - Sanctuary wrote: »

The cost of full nirvana set is about half of rank 9. The power of nirvana should be no where close to rank 9.

It's actually closer to 2/3, and that's not factoring in rerolls to get desired stats. Also the cost of NV is more market driven and not pinned to the price of gold. It used to cost more than R9 for a time. If it's effectiveness was increased, so would it's value which would drive up cost. As it stands now, there isn't much incentive to 2nd cast NV armor (other than - int pants). It would be nice if there was some more justification for the steep cost of the upgrade to 2nd cast.

The way it looks now, upgraded R8 will blow NV away, and that's a shame. Would be nice if there was more than 1 choice at that gear level.

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2011

What was the cost of Nirv before R8 in Boutique was released? Think I remember it to be ~900m for full set? I don't know if Nirv prices will actually go up if it gets improved, especially since the instance would be just as easy to farm.

Price of Nirv is not tied to gold but price of gold is not any less volatile. There was a time when R9 was cheaper because gold was half the price.

edit: meh more like when gold was 2/3 the price. I guess PWI favors rank over farmed gear because the cost can be more easily manipulated.

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Ok, taking current pricse on HT Gold 1.39m(lets round to 1.4 for easier math)

R9 19 medals 380 gold
R9 205 tokens 1025 gold
Total: 1405 gold
approx 1967 Million coins.
Still need helm and cape
TT90helm/cape: approx 13m
550 uncannies(400k ea): 220m
Total R9 gear (no neck or rings):2200 Million coins (2.2 Billion)

TT Nirvana:
TT90 armor:approx 25m
TT99 armor: approx 80m
1550 uncannies(400k ea current): 620m
250 raptures(1.72m ea current): 425m
comprable belt to r9
Warsong: approx 60m
Total TT Nirvana cost: 1210 Million coins (1.21 Billion)

Lunar Nirvana:
Lunar: approx 140m
1500 uncannies(400k ea current): 600m
250 raptures(1.72m ea current): 425m
comprable belt to r9
Warsong: approx 60m
Total Lunar Nirvana cost: 1225 Million coins (1.25 Billion)

Cost not directly comparable, why should the gear be, be happy Nirvana's on a competitive level with r9, no, not equal, but competitive. Scratch the helm and the cape out of the equation and you're at about half r9's cost for nirvana.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · October 2011

Heh, when R9 first came out it was much, much cheaper than nirvana. GSTs were less than 4m each and if you bought DQs cheap you could get the medals for 2m or less. I got full R9 armor for around 40m each piece. Nirvana was the same price it is today. One of the few times early adopters came out way ahead.

Elanxu - Dreamweaver · October 2011

There are reasons why full r9 is like a bajillion times more expensive than 2nd nirvy, even when the rep sales are going on. Lvl2 nirvy has really good bonuses, pretty much comparable to R9's the only thing different is the attack levels, and that is what sets them apart mainly. Cant close the gap between r9 and nirvy stuff.

Nirvana and Rank 9 Balance

Comments

Categories