Delta and Demon barbs

togeetee
togeetee Posts: 4 Arc User
edited October 2011 in Barbarian
In what ways would a demon barb cope with it's lack of defensive abilities compared to a sage barb going through delta (without a charm)?
Post edited by togeetee on

Comments

  • Basingeth - Lost City
    Basingeth - Lost City Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Any barb that is going through delta without a charm is going to die and get booted.
  • Gimlett - Lost City
    Gimlett - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    A vit build demon barb would have no problem in rebirth delta. Although like Basingeth said, you'd have to be charmed, as would a sage barb.
    It's when you're rounding up the magic mobs that you really take a beating, and sage barbs get no extra mdef bonusses >.> Just 10% more hp in tiger form which isn't really that important (before I get flamed, I'm sage!)
  • giniuz
    giniuz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gimlett - Lost City wrote: »
    A vit build demon barb would have no problem in rebirth delta. Although like Basingeth said, you'd have to be charmed, as would a sage barb.
    It's when you're rounding up the magic mobs that you really take a beating, and sage barbs get no extra mdef bonusses >.> Just 10% more hp in tiger form which isn't really that important (before I get flamed, I'm sage!)

    Even a semi vit/pvp (hybrid ^^) demon barb (80 dext, min req for GX, remaining in vit) can easily do RB starting 90 (with 2-3 pharma pots for 9th wave).

    And Gimlett correct me if I m wrong but holy bluster gives 30% def mag. I agree that Sage WB get life easier than demon but it's still easily doable if you know what to do and when to do it.

    On topic: You do need a charm for it even if it become less and less expensive when you get higher lvl and pro team.
    For example I used only 40k of my hiero hp yday for it (and I m Demon, not pure vit)

    My 2 cents b:surrender

    --

    Ginius dark WB 97
    PW MS : Wodan (pvp no oracle server)
    ***

    IGN : TBD
    Race : TBD but probably human
    Class : TBD Warrior or Assassin

    ***

    Only WB lvl 102 on Wodan : PW-MS pvp server
  • Gimlett - Lost City
    Gimlett - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    giniuz wrote: »
    And Gimlett correct me if I m wrong but holy bluster gives 30% def mag.

    I have no idea what holy bluster is, but from all the skills I have, nothing gives me more mdef than the demon equivalent. You're possibly talking about sage roar, which is a 10 second 30% m.attack debuff on mobs in range. In rebirth this isn't really that important anyway since you'll be in BB range before using roar and you'll struggle to take enough damage to tick within the cleric's warm embrace =D
  • giniuz
    giniuz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    My bad holy bluster in PW MS = sage roar in PWI b:surrender
    The demon one give 100% reflect on physical damages.

    But since you got already 30k+ pdef (9th wave with aura maxed), the 30% magic debuf is really valuable imo.

    Since you got aggro all time on melee (and some ranged sometimes), they are in ranged for this 10sec debuff, so I think in RB at least, the sage roar is a bit more usefull than the demon one :)

    Specially when the cleric warm embrace got interrupted b:shocked
    ***

    IGN : TBD
    Race : TBD but probably human
    Class : TBD Warrior or Assassin

    ***

    Only WB lvl 102 on Wodan : PW-MS pvp server
  • Gimlett - Lost City
    Gimlett - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I'd much rather have the physical reflect so I'm at least damaging all mobs and therefore keeping their attention for a little longer. I've never ticked when near the cleric (before I got sage roar), so I'd much rather have the offensive capabilities of demon roar over my sage version =)

    As a side note, demon frighten can be bloody awesome in rebirth (chance to stun mobs for 3 seconds) it's an awesome way to buy a little time if your aggro skills are on cooldown!
  • Brutu - Heavens Tear
    Brutu - Heavens Tear Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Both sage and demon should be able to run delta if they are charmed and smart as the sage bonus comes out to about 1.5k more hp and about 2% to physical resist.
  • giniuz
    giniuz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gimlett - Lost City wrote: »
    As a side note, demon frighten can be bloody awesome in rebirth (chance to stun mobs for 3 seconds) it's an awesome way to buy a little time if your aggro skills are on cooldown!

    I agree and even if it's only 20% chance it seems to be nice, but I need to lvl up to 99 b:surrender

    And about the demon roar there is a flaw, the reflect effect override the fox bramble guard, so when it wear out, you lose both reflect effect and no fox will bramble you every 30 seconds for 3hours b:shocked

    So with the sage roar, you got the mdef debuff and keep the reflect all time for aggro.

    Don't misunderstand me, I think both are pretty balanced and I love demon roar when there is no fox b:victory
    ***

    IGN : TBD
    Race : TBD but probably human
    Class : TBD Warrior or Assassin

    ***

    Only WB lvl 102 on Wodan : PW-MS pvp server
  • Gimlett - Lost City
    Gimlett - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    With alpha male removing the veno brambles every time you use it anyway, it's a moot point =P
  • giniuz
    giniuz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gimlett - Lost City wrote: »
    With alpha male removing the veno brambles every time you use it anyway, it's a moot point =P

    true but since you alternate alpha male and roar, for sage the fox needs to rebuff only every minutes and not every 30sec b:chuckle
    You should be able to keep aggro for 1min/ 1min10sec at the beginning of each mobs wave versus 30s/40s before casting alpha male b:chuckle

    Well I agree it s not a big difference, but when I was in my early 90ies, I was hating magic ranged mobs so much when ea was not doing his job b:cry
    That's why I like mdef buff ^^ (full hp shards barb, only wrist got mp ones, luv armagedon/perdition b:surrender)
    ***

    IGN : TBD
    Race : TBD but probably human
    Class : TBD Warrior or Assassin

    ***

    Only WB lvl 102 on Wodan : PW-MS pvp server
  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    It seems to be more level dependent. Good armor and refines can nearly make up for the HP diff in Sage or Demon. Practice makes perfect.

    I've only done RB twice, first to mid-lvl 9, 2nd finished. Demon, no Alpha Male. Sunder, and plenty of sparks.

    RedMenace
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • ZoanoAce - Lost City
    ZoanoAce - Lost City Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gimlett - Lost City wrote: »
    I'd much rather have the physical reflect so I'm at least damaging all mobs and therefore keeping their attention for a little longer. I've never ticked when near the cleric (before I got sage roar), so I'd much rather have the offensive capabilities of demon roar over my sage version =)

    As a side note, demon frighten can be bloody awesome in rebirth (chance to stun mobs for 3 seconds) it's an awesome way to buy a little time if your aggro skills are on cooldown!
    You appear to be regretting being a Sage barb =\, but for clarification, you would rather have the demon Roar for the physical mobs that are in delta? (I've never done delta, ever x.x). If so, then that would make sense for I was confused which mobs you'd want the physical reflect for.b:surrender
    ●Barb - The "natural" leader. Cool and collected, slow to anger, and typically jovial. Swift to act when friends' lives are in danger, and prepared to lay down his life if the situation calls for it.

    End of lvling, starting of the unimaginableb:laughb:victoryb:coolb:cool
  • Gimlett - Lost City
    Gimlett - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ZoanoAce - Lost City wrote: »
    You appear to be regretting being a Sage barb =\, but for clarification, you would rather have the demon Roar for the physical mobs that are in delta? (I've never done delta, ever x.x). If so, then that would make sense for I was confused which mobs you'd want the physical reflect for.b:surrender

    Nuuu, I love being sage! I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that I feel demon roar is better for rebirth than sage roar =)
    You're right, I generally only use roar in rebirth or if I have a rambo squishy in another instance! The distinction isn't really a huge one (since the reflect damage wouldn't be that high vs rebirth mobs anyway) but I would rather have physical damage reflect from the demon roar over the m.attack debuff from sage roar in rebirth.
  • Lycanthar - Sanctuary
    Lycanthar - Sanctuary Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Alpha Male is not for barb's to use in Delta FYI. Seems like a pretty dumb move to reset aggro after you've just spammed 5-6 skills to get it on you.

    AM is a BM skill to use when barb leaves to kite/gather/challenge next wave.
    ==Sanctuary's Last Demon Barbarian== ... (lol strife)

    Off through the new day's mist, I run
    Out from the new day's mist, I have come
    We shift, pulsing with the earth
    Company we keep, roaming the land while you sleep...
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    And about the demon roar there is a flaw, the reflect effect override the fox bramble guard, so when it wear out, you lose both reflect effect and no fox will bramble you every 30 seconds for 3hours
    Urgh... when a barb uses alpha male, which many do she has to rebramble anyway.


    Wether u can tank with charm or without largely depends on skills & gear, culti doesn't mater.

    I only need charm for stage 9 last waves (though it doesn't always tick), or stage 3 if the squad is bad or I mess up. You shouldn't need a charm for other waves. Invoke when u gather, if there's bb u're fine.
    Seems like a pretty dumb move to reset aggro after you've just spammed 5-6 skills to get it on you.

    I like using Alpha on archers before I bring bk mobs, so they don't atk the cleric.
    That's why I like mdef buff ^^
    Sage roar is nice if u know when to use it. but it's only 10 sec & a **** as long cooldown + it's a mdef buff.. it reduces mobs mgk atk by 30%.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZoanoAce - Lost City
    ZoanoAce - Lost City Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gimlett - Lost City wrote: »
    Nuuu, I love being sage! I'm just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that I feel demon roar is better for rebirth than sage roar =)
    You're right, I generally only use roar in rebirth or if I have a rambo squishy in another instance! The distinction isn't really a huge one (since the reflect damage wouldn't be that high vs rebirth mobs anyway) but I would rather have physical damage reflect from the demon roar over the m.attack debuff from sage roar in rebirth.
    Oh, awesome, thanks for clearing that up (Sage ftw ^^), but as VlLKASS says below:
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Urgh... when a barb uses alpha male, which many do she has to rebramble anyway.


    Wether u can tank with charm or without largely depends on skills & gear, culti doesn't mater.

    I only need charm for stage 9 last waves (though it doesn't always tick), or stage 3 if the squad is bad or I mess up. You shouldn't need a charm for other waves. Invoke when u gather, if there's bb u're fine.



    I like using Alpha on archers before I bring bk mobs, so they don't atk the cleric.


    Sage roar is nice if u know when to use it. but it's only 10 sec & a **** as long cooldown + it's a mdef buff.. it reduces mobs mgk atk by 30%.
    btw, which type of mobs are more numerous in Delta, Physical or Magical?
    ●Barb - The "natural" leader. Cool and collected, slow to anger, and typically jovial. Swift to act when friends' lives are in danger, and prepared to lay down his life if the situation calls for it.

    End of lvling, starting of the unimaginableb:laughb:victoryb:coolb:cool
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    ZoanoAce - Lost City wrote: »
    Oh, awesome, thanks for clearing that up (Sage ftw ^^), but as VlLKASS says below:


    btw, which type of mobs are more numerous in Delta, Physical or Magical?
    Urgh... I think physical... Just my opinion. Otherwise pretty equal.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Gimlett - Lost City
    Gimlett - Lost City Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Lycanthar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Alpha Male is not for barb's to use in Delta FYI. Seems like a pretty dumb move to reset aggro after you've just spammed 5-6 skills to get it on you.

    AM is a BM skill to use when barb leaves to kite/gather/challenge next wave.


    FYI, it's awesome in delta for barbs... I use it just after the archer sharptooths so all the mobs are following me as I try to pull them into the aoe area. Seems like it would be pretty dumb to not use it.
  • Lycanthar - Sanctuary
    Lycanthar - Sanctuary Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Gimlett - Lost City wrote: »
    FYI, it's awesome in delta for barbs... I use it just after the archer sharptooths so all the mobs are following me as I try to pull them into the aoe area. Seems like it would be pretty dumb to not use it.

    So the BM's you delta with are failures?

    I don't see why you'd need to waste valuable genie stamina and energy on alpha male.

    Oh I forgot, 99% of barbs are lazy fools and prefer to spam the lazy buttons rather than improve their game. GG.
    ==Sanctuary's Last Demon Barbarian== ... (lol strife)

    Off through the new day's mist, I run
    Out from the new day's mist, I have come
    We shift, pulsing with the earth
    Company we keep, roaming the land while you sleep...
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Lycanthar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So the BM's you delta with are failures?

    I don't see why you'd need to waste valuable genie stamina and energy on alpha male.

    Oh I forgot, 99% of barbs are lazy fools and prefer to spam the lazy buttons rather than improve their game. GG.

    Rofl.. so those barbs that actually USE alpha male & spend some (really not much ._.) reseources on genie stam, instead of risking squad or giving more work to the bm are the lazy ones? Lol wait wut?

    Oh I forgot, 99% of barbs are lazy fools and prefer to spam the lazy buttons rather than improve their game.
    Wow.. so... & u're even lazier XD since u spam 1 less button b:bye

    I have never done rb or bh delta with u, I duno your skills nor have I heard any responses on you tanking skills. Come to think of it I don't think we EVER squaded. Nor do I know what kind of gear u have.

    Everyone got their own way of tanking. Seen a bunch of barbs while healing each got their own way. So w/e works for u, your build, your gear & the ppl in your squad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lycanthar - Sanctuary
    Lycanthar - Sanctuary Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    rofl... if you really want to know how I delta, do a WC and ask "how is Lycanthar as delta barb?"

    /Thread and I reiterate: GG. b:victory

    How many cliches can I use, hmm...

    "Don't work harder, work smarter."

    You could bust your **** doing it the wrong way, or you can take it easy and do it the right way. I don't consider myself lazy for taking the time to try many different ways to find the best, most efficient method. You make a pretty large assumption that the squad is being put at risk in any way as well, where does that come from?

    Oh well, let the younger generation figure it out. I'm only here to kill boredom at work and set some nubs straight, you are all free to fail or win however you please.
    ==Sanctuary's Last Demon Barbarian== ... (lol strife)

    Off through the new day's mist, I run
    Out from the new day's mist, I have come
    We shift, pulsing with the earth
    Company we keep, roaming the land while you sleep...
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Lycanthar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    rofl... if you really want to know how I delta, do a WC and ask "how is Lycanthar as delta barb?"

    /Thread and I reiterate: GG. b:victory

    How many cliches can I use, hmm...

    "Don't work harder, work smarter."

    You could bust your **** doing it the wrong way, or you can take it easy and do it the right way. I don't consider myself lazy for taking the time to try many different ways to find the best, most efficient method. You make a pretty large assumption that the squad is being put at risk in any way as well, where does that come from?

    Oh well, let the younger generation figure it out. I'm only here to kill boredom at work and set some nubs straight, you are all free to fail or win however you please.

    Rofl I'm not gona waste a tele on u. However it would be nice to ask a person who was in both of our rbs at least a few times (lol some days are just bad) & ask about the dif in our tanking.

    While I was still rbing I would always nag the good DDs on who are one of the best barbs they have done rb with & how they were dif from me as well as how I could improve.


    b:chuckle Never heard your name

    You make a pretty large assumption that the squad is being put at risk in any way as well, where does that come from?
    That was one of the examples, yet u ignored the 2nd one on giving the bm more work, which I'd rather do myself.
    Oh well, let the younger generation figure it out.
    /facepalm
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Wait... alpha male resets aggro?


    I know roar resets but I didn't think alpha male did, I keep it on my genie but I've never done rebirth before as a barb (gamma is outdated now with frost+hypers) I've only used it a few times when a squishy DD would rambo some mobs in TT, or I was losing aggro for some reason in frost (which really only happens when I lag)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • XZlox - Raging Tide
    XZlox - Raging Tide Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    dont know about some of you but i got a 100 demon aps barb and a 101 r8sage barb and i find it ALOT easier on my r8 barb for some reason. with same genie same lvl of skillz
  • J_Balt - Heavens Tear
    J_Balt - Heavens Tear Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Wait... alpha male resets aggro?

    AM resets aggro yes, just like Roar. I must say I'm with Lycanthar on using alpha male as a barb in rebirth. To me it's useless and a waste of stamina/energy, which could be used to debuff the mobs instead, for faster kills.
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    XZlox - Raging Tide wrote: »
    dont know about some of you but i got a 100 demon aps barb and a 101 r8sage barb and i find it ALOT easier on my r8 barb for some reason. with same genie same lvl of skillz

    LOL


    So, beside the orripilant necro, you are wondering how come that your (much likely) VIT r8 sage barb has less trouble in tanking a delta than your APS demon barb ?


    You are such a noob man...



    You said it yourself, the sage one has 1 more level. That's the main difference between em b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Obvious necro is fail, but it was pretty funny to read how only "charmed sage vit builds" can tank Delta a year and a half ago. Now demon aps barbs do it fine uncharmed and with very low refines.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Krel - Heavens Tear
    Krel - Heavens Tear Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    ^^^^^
    this is true,and i do it on my demon barb with no charm.
    I luv my luvsalotb:dirty

    Fear Me:I will and can unleash my true demon forum troll from at anytime..so beware.


    Im A wizzie with godly looks and your all jealousb:bye
  • mangomanau1
    mangomanau1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I run an average demon barb 16K now but originally i did my first full run at about 14.5K (but thats was with an awesome pro squad). Kind of hurts but it isnt too much of a problem except when the stun mobs turn up and the BB goes down.

    It does hurt though and i need to keep a really carefull eye on my hp which is hard after 1.5-2 hours in there.....

    I do find that running down the length of the area where the waves come in to gather them up does a lot less damage than sitting there and waiting for them to pile up though.

    Usually a run to the end of the line i can see beastial rage (while running there) then invoke, roar, sunder maybe pop a pot and run. That usually cuts it pretty fine though with the sunder in there though and i think for that reason often i hold agro pretty good and the seeker doesnt it grab it off me till the mobs are mostly dead.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I tank delta on my 10.7k nhp demon bm when I'm bored its kinda easy now

    But ya lol at sage barbs "herp derp 10% moar hp make us pro tank"
    Gifs are hard to make work here

Categories