A poll on soloing....

Daedallus - Sanctuary
Daedallus - Sanctuary Posts: 554 Arc User
edited October 2011 in General Discussion
We've all seen people talking about how they can solo FCC or instance [insert name here].

What I'd like to ask is:

Should it be possible to solo instances? ( in a MMO I believe not, since cooperation is what defines a MMO )

If you believe it should be possible, what level ( let's use level to make it easier ) should it require? ( like 30+ levels to solo an instance )


Edit: As instances you may also consider World Bosses :)
Post edited by Daedallus - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Xainou - Sanctuary
    Xainou - Sanctuary Posts: 5,369 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Your poll is specified way too little.

    While I say, no a single person shouldn't be able to solo a world boss, it's totally okay for me if someone runs FCC or TT on his own.
    Venos with herc can solo TT easily, does that make them 'OP'? I don't think so...
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  • Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary
    Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary Posts: 3,034 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    This is an mmorpg, not a single player game, hence, no! But as you can see nowadays people can do it rather easily by having OP -int gear.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=14516063001&dateline=1364756666[/SIGPIC] Ty Silvy :)
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ehhh there are still some instances that require a squad of some sort. So really this isn't needed.


    Still don't get why people ***** bout APS, when just bout everybody has a aps barb/sin/bm/archer/whatever else
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

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  • Daedallus - Sanctuary
    Daedallus - Sanctuary Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Your poll is specified way too little.

    While I say, no a single person shouldn't be able to solo a world boss, it's totally okay for me if someone runs FCC or TT on his own.
    Venos with herc can solo TT easily, does that make them 'OP'? I don't think so...

    Not trying to flame you, but if you solo TT 1-1 at 60, yes, you're OP.

    If you solo TT 1-1 at 90, I don't think you're OP.

    Anyway, what I meant was if you guys believe it should be possible ( not gear or herc dependant )

    I believe it shouldn't be possible ( it should be so hard we'd be forced to get a squad for it)

    And btw, thanks for posting :)
  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I voted no, but for one good reason.

    Mechanism should be put in place for sins to not be able to teleport through walls nor stealth in FC.

    As for instances wise, 30 lvls + sounds ok, but how does that apply to world bosses ?
    Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle
  • Daedallus - Sanctuary
    Daedallus - Sanctuary Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

    As for instances wise, 30 lvls + sounds ok, but how does that apply to world bosses ?

    I think it doesn't. It should be impossible to solo WB's IMO
  • rgog
    rgog Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Really by the time you can solo an instance efficiently it is usually not worth it. And you need really good gear to be able to do it in a time-frame that makes it worthwhile.

    I think the only class that can do it in a worthwhile time frame is SIN's and even then you are almost always better off duoing it.
  • Daedallus - Sanctuary
    Daedallus - Sanctuary Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Agreed, and I know it's possible... the question is.... should the game allow ANY player to solo instances? Shouldn't instances be hard enough to be impossible to solo?
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    World bosses don't require a squad to get to but most instances do. That being said, if it takes 4 people to open a TT then every boss should require at least 4 to get a drop (etc). The mechanics of this game are poorly done, but they never anticipated -int being the way that it is and that people could actually survive bosses without heals (no BP until 2 expansions ago). I still feel squad mechanics of this game are possibly the worst I've ever seen in any game.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver
    TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Personally I'm of the mindset that if you are overleveled for the dungeon to the point that it no longer gives you anything (like you have with the 30+ option) then it should be soloable. Trying to make it so that you cannot solo instances no matter your level would require them to be so difficult that people who are an appropriate level cant even finish them. I think that barring hercs, the instances should be designed to be un-soloable, but I think the blame lies in the classes who can solo those kinds of instances rather than in the instances themselves
  • Fulcanelli - Raging Tide
    Fulcanelli - Raging Tide Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Personally I'm of the mindset that if you are overleveled for the dungeon to the point that it no longer gives you anything (like you have with the 30+ option) then it should be soloable. Trying to make it so that you cannot solo instances no matter your level would require them to be so difficult that people who are an appropriate level cant even finish them. I think that barring hercs, the instances should be designed to be un-soloable, but I think the blame lies in the classes who can solo those kinds of instances rather than in the instances themselves

    +1 to this!
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Oh and on a side note the hardest instance to solo? Yep you guessed it, Warsong.
    TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    but I think the blame lies in the classes who can solo those kinds of instances rather than in the instances themselves

    Guess who dictates if they can get that good? Oh back on the devs again those same sneaky people that gave us the game mechanics to be able to do it anyway.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • RunningTiger - Dreamweaver
    RunningTiger - Dreamweaver Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Yes I think you should be able to solo if you have at minimum 2500$ worth of gear on your character.

    Sometimes I just dont feel like having to deal with other people....Also the rewards in this game for absolutely anything when divided by 6 = not worth the time to do.
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yes I think you should be able to solo if you have at minimum 2500$ worth of gear on your character.

    Sometimes I just dont feel like having to deal with other people....Also the rewards in this game for absolutely anything when divided by 6 = not worth the time to do.

    It costs me 1.5bil to replace my sins weapon. I'm all for squads but I'd rather farm 3 billion (wife and I) then 9 billion. That extra 6 billion will cost about 8 months more of farming. This is the only real reason people solo. If end game wasn't so crazy expensive people would squad a lot more. I find those numbers above ridiculous just for 1 weapon replacement. You used to be able to take a squad of 6 to TT3-3 (all classes were needed to do it) and farm everyone full TT99 (end game gear..) in about a month and a half.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • Northern - Dreamweaver
    Northern - Dreamweaver Posts: 183 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Yeah, if you actually play this game without cash shopping then the idea of not being able to solo sucks becuase the rewards are definitely not up to par to be divided amount 6.

    This is the key reason most people solo, because solo to trio is the only economically feasible way to do anything pretty much. If I couldn't solo I'd simply multi client an play the whole squad.----Either way I am not sharing my drops with you.
  • Ocelote - Lost City
    Ocelote - Lost City Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    is hard to make a vote for this since i think squad mode for instance should always made in squad, some can solo and some dont have the single mode still thinking my vote
  • Tsukyini - Raging Tide
    Tsukyini - Raging Tide Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Northern - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    solo to trio is the only economically feasible way to do anything pretty much.

    QFT.

    It doesn't make sense to force people to take along more people than they need to accomplish their goals.

    Actually, I take that back. It makes sense if you're from the group of people who isn't needed/wanted and wants to force others to take you along so that you can mooch off their efforts. But then again, I hear having friends is helpful for getting stuff done that you can't accomplish on your own.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • XxZavxX - Raging Tide
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Daedallus - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ( in a MMO I believe not, since cooperation is what defines a MMO )

    Hate to burst your bubble but,

    cooperation =/= a definition of a mmo

    MMOs are just games where huge amounts of players interact with one another. Not necessarily in the form of cooperation. That doesn't mean all players should have to hold each others' hands and skip down the yellow brick road or anything. Quite a few MMOs are made where you can solo or team. And that's how they should be for the most part.

    TW instances aren't going to be soloed when there is some degree of seriousness going on. That's fine. But depending on other peoples' help to gear toons is kind of lame.

    Ever notice how much QQing goes on in WC or on these forums from people getting stuff stolen from them? Go to any other MMO and the same thing happens. People ninja loot.

    I don't see why soloing is so bad to begin with.

    I enjoy teams too. But if I were to err on the side of the situation I would always make games somewhat soloable so that players can be self-sufficient and not have to suffer getting loot (ie Play Time) stolen from them.
  • TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver
    TanisHawkeye - Dreamweaver Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That doesn't mean all players should have to hold each others' hands and skip down the yellow brick road or anything.

    Coming soon: "The Wizard of Oz: The MMO"
  • Yamiino - Heavens Tear
    Yamiino - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,031 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    No toon should be able to solo an instance or boss above or under 30 levels of the toon.

    It's against the whole MMORPG concept, where you NEED a squad/party in order to accomplish it.

    I see people soloing FF, Nirv with 2-3 toons, Abba, SOT, etc... especially sins, which can stealth to the boss itself and solo it in less than a minute.

    I mean sure, veno can solo some but not all things as well, but they do NEED a tank, which in most cases is a herc, which would do the barb's job, so that technically is 2 against 1, which would be considered a party/squad.
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  • Tsukyini - Raging Tide
    Tsukyini - Raging Tide Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No toon should be able to solo an instance or boss above or under 30 levels of the toon.

    It's against the whole MMORPG concept, where you NEED a squad/party in order to accomplish it.

    In most MMOs, the big fuss is made over whether people can solo endgame.

    People have said repeatedly the endgame of PWI is PVP, not PVE.

    If that is true (as people have repeatedly asserted on this forum that it is) who cares, apart from jealousy, if people can solo the PVE content? What does it even matter? You aren't required to run PVE instances to compete in endgame.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BerserkBeast - Sanctuary
    BerserkBeast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    My 2 cents:
    - Drops given by quest

    TT Version 1:You can solo but crappy drops
    TT Version 2:Based on quests,every squad member takes a quest automatically(Like when you enter a PQ area),that requires to kill a boss.After boss its killed,the quest auto-complete and gives the player directly in his inventory some random drops -- like this -- every squad member get his random share.
    To prevent people to farm 6 times normal drops,all drops given by TT version 2 are non-tradable,this way also solve the problem to share among the squad since everyone gets something random and have to keep it since its not tradable.

    I think the actual"Squad Mode",with OP gear is like the"Solo Mode",they should instead replace the squad mode with TT Version 2 mode,this way people wouldn't farm too much since of the crappy drop rate.

    Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »
    In most MMOs, the big fuss is made over whether people can solo endgame.

    People have said repeatedly the endgame of PWI is PVP, not PVE.

    If that is true (as people have repeatedly asserted on this forum that it is) who cares, apart from jealousy, if people can solo the PVE content? What does it even matter? You aren't required to run PVE instances to compete in endgame.

    Not everyone consider PvP the endgame thing,that's why the so-called"Big Fuss".
    Some weird,odd people(Like me),are happy enough to kill a boss,even if that only takes a spark macro and nothing else.
    The only way to beat a troll is....to troll him back b:angry
  • Marista - Lost City
    Marista - Lost City Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    With the current state of the economy, the only thing that makes non-nv instances profitable at all is soloing. There's too much inflation and ability for gear to be gotten easily through csing to make the small profit margins of group instances pretty worthless. The crux of this is that people now need money, not mats, to get gear. The best stuff isn't farmed in TT, it's bought from people who open packs, bought by paying the exorbitant fee to open lunar, or bought from others who run NV because, on non-x2 drops, you don't usually even get 1 uncanny per person on normal drops, just money from the split.

    Thus, if the ability to solo is removed, many players such as myself, who do not cs hugely, would feel even more disenfranchised than we already do. Many of us would quit, removing a significant portion of those who buy gold. With less demand for gold, less people would charge it to sell to us, and the game would die faster than it already is. And since the state of the economy can't really be undone, removing the ability to solo would do only bad things.
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    So, I heard HA veno is the way to go? :3
  • Northern - Dreamweaver
    Northern - Dreamweaver Posts: 183 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    exactly..I do not really understand why the people who hate on soloing and aps can not get it.

    The game is already nearly to the point where you need to buy rank,refine orbs,packs for gems,packs for aps gear/gems, and sell alittle gold off for tt golds. The guys who are not serious merchants or already spent tons of cash shoping are not easily soloing anything.

    Also the majority of soloers are not really solo, they are multiclienting atleast 2, if they arent playing an entire squad that is.
  • Lenestro - Sanctuary
    Lenestro - Sanctuary Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I think instances should be difficult for a party, and impossible to solo for any level. Any high level that tries should get sidekicked down to the areas level, but too bad someone else already thought of that b:cute
  • ptana
    ptana Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Daedallus - Sanctuary wrote: »
    We've all seen people talking about how they can solo FCC or instance [insert name here].

    What I'd like to ask is:

    Should it be possible to solo instances? ( in a MMO I believe not, since cooperation is what defines a MMO )

    If you believe it should be possible, what level ( let's use level to make it easier ) should it require? ( like 30+ levels to solo an instance )


    Edit: As instances you may also consider World Bosses :)

    i dont think you played other korean/chinese mmo games.they have the same philosophy,farm 24/7 or use your visa to be able to solo and 1 hit ppl.
  • DraknessDuir - Sanctuary
    DraknessDuir - Sanctuary Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    XxZavxX - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Hate to burst your bubble but,

    cooperation =/= a definition of a mmo

    MMOs are just games where huge amounts of players interact with one another. Not necessarily in the form of cooperation. That doesn't mean all players should have to hold each others' hands and skip down the yellow brick road or anything. Quite a few MMOs are made where you can solo or team. And that's how they should be for the most part.

    TW instances aren't going to be soloed when there is some degree of seriousness going on. That's fine. But depending on other peoples' help to gear toons is kind of lame.

    Ever notice how much QQing goes on in WC or on these forums from people getting stuff stolen from them? Go to any other MMO and the same thing happens. People ninja loot.

    I don't see why soloing is so bad to begin with.

    I enjoy teams too. But if I were to err on the side of the situation I would always make games somewhat soloable so that players can be self-sufficient and not have to suffer getting loot (ie Play Time) stolen from them.

    +1

    and add, sometimes you just can't get a squad during your own free time and it's nice to have the soloable option.
  • X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear
    X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,301 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Me personally, I think it's stupid people can solo anything endgame. Endgame is meant to represent the super difficult, leading to great rewards. I just don't understand where the fun is in soloing nirvana, TT, lunar etc.

    This game needs a serious overhaul, and tweaking; in the 7 years or whatever Perfect World has been running, it's never had any major tweaks to keep up with the changes in standards of gear. Instances need to be made harder - bosses need more dynamics (easy and hard mode, hard mode being impossible to solo), and the rewards reflect the difficulty. Bosses here are boring and predictable, it isn't hard to write a script to create harder and unpredictable bosses.

    As an example, I've played some games where that last boss in Arch Assault or whatever that event is, you know that nasty fker outside north gate, is easy compared to the endgame bosses in them other games. Because hard instances and bosses keeps people interested, and coming back for more. How often do we see "game is dead" / "game is dying" / "waiting for G to the W to the 2" etc ...........
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Just because it's a MMO doesn't mean that it's required to cooperate with other players. The option is there if you decide to use it. There are days where I would rather solo something instead of running with a squad. The only thing that a squad does it make the instance easier and faster to complete. I wouldn't want to be forced to have to find a squad to run an instance every time that I want to go do one.
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  • Daedallus - Sanctuary
    Daedallus - Sanctuary Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I'd like to thank everyone who voted and replied this thread.

    I'm glad to see some people fel as I do that instances should be impossible to complet in solo mode.

    I respect those who prefer solo mode, but the majority of reasons presented were economical ones.

    I can understand that someone who put in thousands of dollars in the game wants to one-shoot evryone on sight, but I can't understand why they'd want to solo anything.

    I guess that's why I'll never be a rich player, lol.

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