Explanation on Sage Take Aim :)

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Hi guys,

I was going through the sage/demon skills today when I noticed that the sage take aim "gives 500% of the weapon damage".

So I have a few questions about it :

What exactly "gives" means ? Will I have 500% of my weapon for a few seconds after that or just for that 1 shot ? EDIT - Never mind, it's just for the 1 shot x.x

Will I still get that effect if I cancel the 3 seconds casting ? Sorry, last time I used Take Aim was when I was lvl 10 b:surrender If I remember correctly the 5 seconds ( yea it is 5 seconds on lvl1 ) casting can be canceled and the skill casts instantly.

Is it useful ? ( This question came up in my mind after I saw it for 50K over AH )

Please feel free to discuss this skill. Would love to hear a few examples of where I can use it.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Conventional wisdom suggests that both demon/sage Take Aim are relatively even, considering one fires faster and the other does more damage. However, considering that Take Aim seems mostly designed for standard PVE mob grinding (and is only good as an opener in that, or any context) I'd rather have the extra damage.

That said, neither version grants any kind of buff, so cancelling the skill before you let it out is useless. Take Aim DOES have the ability to be released without being fully charged, which you'd probably know if you used it on mobs (I kinda thought everyone did, though o.O).

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Yes, I've used it on mobs and sorry for the misleading - I meant releasing without fully charged - will that lower the damage of the skill aka the 500% dmg addon ? It doesn't make sense to wait for 3 second channeling when you can fire it away in under a second.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Releasing it less than fully charged will deal less than full damage.

Sage Take Aim is better than Demon, as you can release at the same time it takes Demon Take Aim to cast, and deal compareable damage. Thus, Demon is not "faster".

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Thanks for that guys. So Take Aim doesn't sound like a useful skill in anything else than grinding. A bit in doubt if I should lvl up all the way to 10 just for the Sage version of it. Any sage archers that can give any output if the skill is actually good?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · February 2011

It's the hardest hitting skill at high levels. If you want to one shot an opponent before they have a chance to use defenses take aim is your best shot.

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Thanks guys and girls

Managed to find it for 50K on my server, so I guess now it's time to get my *** to 89 b:avoid

Thanks again for the info (:

Teppeii - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Going sage huh, Grim?

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Going sage huh, Grim?

Yep mate, finally decided

My choice wouldn't be so easy without your help though b:cute

Miugre - Heavens Tear · February 2011

I hope you didn't get the impression that I don't like Take Aim; I do.

As someone who still bothers to do his killquests and straight-up grind once in awhile, it's my favorite opener. On solable mini-bosses, I sometimes open with STA instead, but only if it would remove more HP via its debuff than Sage Take Aim would deal (which, for me, is 10-15k to mobs without special damage reductions).

Considering that Take Aim is a starter skill, it is extremely cheap to max and I'd say you should do it, even if you don't plan on using it regularly.

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear · February 2011

how does deadly shot compare to Take aim, i was always under the belief that deadly shot was far more powerfull >.>

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I hope you didn't get the impression that I don't like Take Aim; I do. As someone who still bothers to do his killquests and straight-up grind once in awhile, it's my favorite opener. On solable mini-bosses, I sometimes open with STA instead, but only if it would remove more HP via its debuff than Sage Take Aim would deal (which, for me, is 10-15k to mobs without special damage reductions).

Considering that Take Aim is a starter skill, it is extremely cheap to max and I'd say you should do it, even if you don't plan on using it regularly.

No Miugre, I didn't get that impression

I`m just that kind of people who are first asking like 100 other people before making a decision lol. I hope that this isn't pissing off anyone, just the way I am b:surrender

Actually I`m pretty thankful that you took the time to answer my PM, for which I think I didn't say thanks b:surrender

Fleuri - Sanctuary · February 2011

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

how does deadly shot compare to Take aim, i was always under the belief that deadly shot was far more powerfull >.>

Both take aim and deadly shot give you your base weapon damage, but they also give you:

Take aim:
level 10: 3 * weapon damage
demon: 4 * weapon damage
sage: 5 * weapon damage

Deadly Shot:
level 10: 4986.6 + weapon damage
sage: 5800 + weapon damage
demon: 6300 + weapon damage

So, if you have the same level of take aim and deadly shot, the break even points are:

sage: 5800/4 = 1450 weapon damage
demon: 6300/3 = 2100 weapon damage
level 10: 4986.6/2 = 2493.3 weapon damage

If your weapon is below the threshold, deadly shot does higher damage, if your weapon is above the threshold, take aim does higher damage.

Note that this comparison ignores time, mana, range, cooldown and opportunity issues.

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear · February 2011

alright i getcha

thanks very much for the detailed response b:thanks

AIethea - Sanctuary · October 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Both take aim and deadly shot give you your base weapon damage, but they also give you:

Take aim:
level 10: 3 * weapon damage
demon: 4 * weapon damage
sage: 5 * weapon damage

Deadly Shot:
level 10: 4986.6 + weapon damage
sage: 5800 + weapon damage
demon: 6300 + weapon damage

So, if you have the same level of take aim and deadly shot, the break even points are:

sage: 5800/4 = 1450 weapon damage
demon: 6300/3 = 2100 weapon damage
level 10: 4986.6/2 = 2493.3 weapon damage

If your weapon is below the threshold, deadly shot does higher damage, if your weapon is above the threshold, take aim does higher damage.

Note that this comparison ignores time, mana, range, cooldown and opportunity issues.

I'm not saying you are entirely wrong because it follows some terminology used elsewhere...but its confusing. Weapon Damage, as you show it, is the sum of (Level + Wpn.Dmg + Phys.Atk).

Just increasing your total physical attack can change whether the same weapon will be better with one or the other. Just a small revision I felt worth noting.

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2011

Weapon damage means equipment damage. Weapon + rings + shards + whatever the **** gives more attack, (Like Lionheart Necklace)

So when your skill says "+x00% weapon damage," you don't include your level in there. In base damage calculation the level is included, but it's not part of equipment damage. An exception is Blazing Arrow, it doesn't include damage from rings IIRC.

AIethea - Sanctuary · October 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Weapon damage means equipment damage. Weapon + rings + shards + whatever the **** gives more attack, (Like Lionheart Necklace)

So when your skill says "+x00% weapon damage," you don't include your level in there. In base damage calculation the level is included, but it's not part of equipment damage. An exception is Blazing Arrow, it doesn't include damage from rings IIRC.

Weapon Attack does have a level component and I have verified it with Take Aim specifically. Blazing arrow is based off of exclusively the average weapon min / max damage.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · October 2011

Necro

Vindis - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Necro

I was thinking the same thing x,x.

Quick summary though:

If sage, Take Aim does more damage

If demon, Deadly Shot does more damage

Having not bothered to learn Sage Deadly Shot I can say lvl 10 Deadly shot is far out damaged by Sage Take Aim. (I have it, it rots in my bank. I might even learn serrated first <,< Never used Deadly much except to test its damage against Sage Take Aim)

EDIT: Sage Take Aim is totally my "omg lol I wanna see how much I can hit for

" skill.

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Not sure how Demon Deadly Shot>Demon Take aim tbh. With Just a +5 R8, R8 ring, and 90 School teacher, you'd get about 1668-2692, which times x3 (the damage difference) would be 5004-8076 (Deamon DS has +6300). So you'd pay millions more to find and learn Demon Deadly shot, just because it does more damage ~20% of the time? That's just with +5 and Immacs, would be even bigger gap at higher levels.

IMO Sage Deadly shot is more useful just as I could see more uses for a Point-Blank Nuke than a crappier take aim. . .

Miugre - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Is it still a necro if it's in such a slow-paced forum like this one? o.o [/open-ended philosophical question]

Anyway, having learned Sage DS myself since this thread was first created... from what I can tell they're roughly equal. DS is perhaps slightly more powerful, but I didn't test that thoroughly... and the added MP cost offsets any benefit, IMO.

Then again, I don't have what you'd call a "pro wep," so maybe a vastly OP wep would prove Take Aim to be the unambiguous victor. :P

As for buying Lv11 DS... well, you shouldn't have to. Either you'll get it as your "**** result" from a PoF book clip, or you can get it along with 8 other books from the AMP full book clip, which I would highly recommend as it guarantees you access to several more useful skills (Stun, STA, and Bow Mastery being the biggest highlights). Thus, DS becomes one of those "I have it, so I may as well learn it" books. :P

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Not sure if is a Necro considering the thread seems to have continued well anyway

Still costs 2.5mil to max + 2mil to learn level11. So you are effectivly paying millions for a crappier Take Aim (if Demon). With Sage, Take aim will always do more damage, the gap can be quite large there. Though IMO is more useful as it's full damage point-blank, while the Demon one has no benifit.

Though there was a time when +5 R8 was pretty close to goodly . . .

Miugre - Heavens Tear · October 2011

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not sure if is a Necro considering the thread seems to have continued well anyway

Still costs 2.5mil to max + 2mil to learn level11. So you are effectivly paying millions for a crappier Take Aim (if Demon). With Sage, Take aim will always do more damage, the gap can be quite large there. Though IMO is more useful as it's full damage point-blank, while the Demon one has no benifit.

Though there was a time when +5 R8 was pretty close to goodly . . .

"There was a time" when R8 was logistically impossible. >_> Generally when framing advice I use the least common denominator for gears (e.g. TT90/99, molds, OHT, or maybe FF). :P

I'm not sure if Sage DS's benefit is really a benefit at all. Nobody would channel DS on a mob that's already moving toward them, and in PVP it'd only be useful on a melee char who's trying to run into your range in hopes that your melee-range penalty would be applied (in which case, they'd probably stun you before you can get it off anyway, and a smart archer would've probably kited or used stun/freeze anyway). Rather, the only reasons I learned Sage DS are (a) the basic boost to it that all skills get from Lv10 -> Lv11, (b) the "I have it so I may as well use it" factor, and (c) because I'm a completionist like that. XD

Also, DS costs 1.5mil coin/sp to learn. The only skills that cost 2mil are Stormrage and Barrage.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · October 2011

Sage deadly shot would be a little useful for wizards who shrink into melee range during the channeling of DS. However almost all archers would rather lead with stun arrow instead of deadly shot so I don't see the point.

If the wizard distance shrinks into melee range sage winged pledge isn't a bad option anyway.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · October 2011

I can think of two cases where I might want to use deadly shot in place of take aim.

One of those cases is where take aim is on cooldown (or, hypothetically speaking, where I wanted take aim to not be on cooldown after taking the shot).

The other of those cases would be in a zooming thunder powder macro. Here, deadly shot is perfect, since it's almost certainly not hot, and it has a 0.6 second casting time, and of course it has nice damage adds. Our DoT skills can also be nice here because they will also almost certainly not be hot.

Quilue - Sanctuary · October 2011

If Take Aim is on CD use STA...I really don't see how Deadly Shot is useful for any path...

and I don't realistically see anyone using Zooming Thunder as an archer...most of the time pills are for defense; even when wizards or clerics use Zooming Thunder it's to drop an AOE that could wipe squads. To do some single target damage very quickly is not worth putting your other pills on cd...might as well eat a White Tea and x2 spark or something...at least your DPS bonus duration is more than 5s...then again might as well eat a White Tea and drop Barrage.

Vindis - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Oh interesting. I was always told by Demon archer's that Take Aim is useless to them, I've met several that left it at level 1. I honestly never leveled it until around 94 when it and Stormrage were the only things left at level 1. I tried it out, decided it does a rough 10k less on crits than sage take aim with DS lvl 10 and barely use it. Only when I am bored and want variety or attempting to test it I suppose (I've probably used it more to test than anything else, though I did once kill another archer in a duel with it just to say "oooh DS crit ftw lolololol"

@Asterelle: my tactic vs shrinking wizards tends to be Stun-->Wingspan (likely crit) --> Pledge spam (x2 pledge gives a high chance of at least one of those skills critting). I guess if they lived I would drop Shell and if they do not sutra one should have killed them before they kill you.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · October 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If Take Aim is on CD use STA...I really don't see how Deadly Shot is useful for any path...

and I don't realistically see anyone using Zooming Thunder as an archer...most of the time pills are for defense; even when wizards or clerics use Zooming Thunder it's to drop an AOE that could wipe squads. To do some single target damage very quickly is not worth putting your other pills on cd...might as well eat a White Tea and x2 spark or something...at least your DPS bonus duration is more than 5s...then again might as well eat a White Tea and drop Barrage.

Sage STA is useful for high health targets, but you can sometimes have a lot of targets where Deadly Shot or Take Aim is a high probability oneshot, and sometimes you have situations where they will not notice you before you attack them.

And if you want an example for when single target zooming thunder would be worthwhile, consider a catapult puller with a -100% physical defense debuff in a situation where you do not have a lot of defenders. (And I can think of other possibilities also.)

Explanation on Sage Take Aim :)

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