DoTs in weapons. Stop doing it.
Sakubatou - Sanctuary
Posts: 4,001 Arc User
I know most of the pwi community needs helmets to go outside and does their damage calculations in crayon, but for some reason I keep having higher hopes for people and being let down. I saw about 5 people with DoTs in their weapons tonight. I've warned people about them being about as useful as average or flawless garnets but for the low-low price of...13 mil. Now, if you want to spend 72 times more than a flawless garnet that costs 180k for lower damage, go ahead and waste your money (more to imbue it, too). Instead, I'd thought I'd post damage calcs for people so you can flame anyone who has DoTs in their weapon.
Now, the higher the DD before the shard the more a DoT actually benefits but I'm posting here because sins have the highest DD of any class already and so if DoTs fail on a sin then they'd fail on anything.
Here is my build currently. Here.
I'm using it because he has pretty mediocre damage. I took the current shards out so we can play with it. Anyway, he has Rank 8 +7 with 483 dex. Not godly, Not G15 or Rank 9 but I figured a mediocre dph to do our damage calculations on. Rank 8 +7 does the same dph as Barrier Thorns between +10 and +11.
Dph average = (6228+9826)/2=8027 average before shards. Here is the damage calculation from pwpedia.
Daggers and ranged weapons:
attack multiplier = 1 + ( Dex / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs
Adding a garnet would be multiplied by weapon mastery, attack buffs (adds to base weapon attack), and dexterity.
New dph with a flawless is 8151 average for a gain of +124 phys attack.
Attack Levels
damage taken = damage delivered * ( 1 + ( attack level - defense level ) / 100 )
So basically, 1 attack level is a 1% increase in pve. 8027 x 1.01 = 8107 ave dph for a gain of 80 dph. So a DoT gives you 1/3 less increase then a flawless garnet in this example.
What about sparked damage?
Unsharded=16102 dph
Flawless Garnet=16351 dph (+249)
DoT=16263 dph (+161)
Average (G5) Garnet=16261 dph (159)
This only concerns DoTs in the weapon where garnets are a better option for increasing dps. In the armor sockets a DoT is still an option for increasing dps and would also help multiply the damage a garnet in the weapon adds. Point is, flame loudly and openly anyone stupid enough to DoT shard weapons.
Now, the higher the DD before the shard the more a DoT actually benefits but I'm posting here because sins have the highest DD of any class already and so if DoTs fail on a sin then they'd fail on anything.
Here is my build currently. Here.
I'm using it because he has pretty mediocre damage. I took the current shards out so we can play with it. Anyway, he has Rank 8 +7 with 483 dex. Not godly, Not G15 or Rank 9 but I figured a mediocre dph to do our damage calculations on. Rank 8 +7 does the same dph as Barrier Thorns between +10 and +11.
Dph average = (6228+9826)/2=8027 average before shards. Here is the damage calculation from pwpedia.
Daggers and ranged weapons:
attack multiplier = 1 + ( Dex / 150 ) + weapon mastery + physical attack buffs
Adding a garnet would be multiplied by weapon mastery, attack buffs (adds to base weapon attack), and dexterity.
New dph with a flawless is 8151 average for a gain of +124 phys attack.
Attack Levels
damage taken = damage delivered * ( 1 + ( attack level - defense level ) / 100 )
So basically, 1 attack level is a 1% increase in pve. 8027 x 1.01 = 8107 ave dph for a gain of 80 dph. So a DoT gives you 1/3 less increase then a flawless garnet in this example.
What about sparked damage?
Unsharded=16102 dph
Flawless Garnet=16351 dph (+249)
DoT=16263 dph (+161)
Average (G5) Garnet=16261 dph (159)
This only concerns DoTs in the weapon where garnets are a better option for increasing dps. In the armor sockets a DoT is still an option for increasing dps and would also help multiply the damage a garnet in the weapon adds. Point is, flame loudly and openly anyone stupid enough to DoT shard weapons.
Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
Post edited by Sakubatou - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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Lol half on HL's Sin's got DoT in weapon, that or elemental shards. I was going to say something in my gear guide, but you know what, **** it, cheaper garnet gems for me.0
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Too complicated.
I did a simplified version, assuming the following:
1. 2 Garnets Gems vs 2 DoTs
2. Jones' Blessing
3. 450 Dexterity
4. Demon Dagger Devotion (e.g. +75% damage)
I decided to ignore Crit% as I figured it'd be a redundant scaler. I did not do this for dexterity because then I wouldn't get the base DPH amount right. I decided to use Jones Blessing since it's a very common item. I could've obviously ignored it, but it's highly unlikely that it would change the result.
The result that I got was that you'd need a base DPH of 9,750 for DoTs to be superior to Garnet Gems. In this instance, "base DPH" refers to the average Physical Damage you'd have from your Weapon, Ornaments and other potential sources, but before any multipliers.
As you might realize, you'll never, ever, reach this number. For example, a +12 R9 dagger has an average on-weapon DPH of 1,709.5. Add two Bands from Heaven's Jail with engraved +20 Patk on both and the TT99 necklace and you're still only looking at 2,046.5, which isn't even a quarter of the required number.
Oh, and in response to Sakubatou's talking about doing math with crayons, I did all of this math on my room window using a red whiteboard marker.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
I seriously thought that it was over, but I still see it too.
Some people just have the jonas blessing mindset. Mo' attack level mo' powa.0 -
+9,001 million Saku.
I want to punch a kitten in the face every time I see weapons with DoTs...and I'm a huge animal lover. b:surrender
...but I have to say, Marionette's 2-DoT Gut Breakers are pretty b:avoidDemon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Too complicated.
How's this for simplified: A 13 mil DoT in your weapon gives about the same damage as a grade 5 garnet gem which can be bought for 16k. A G11 garnet is about 4 times better than a DoT.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »How's this for simplified: A 13 mil DoT in your weapon gives about the same damage as a grade 5 garnet gem which can be bought for 16k. A G11 garnet is about 4 times better than a DoT.
WHERE'S YOUR PROOF, NOOB?
b:cute
And besides, it's not like posting these things will stop people from doing stupid things. DoTs are shiney, expensive and Attack Levels are confusing. So why the hell not shard with them? I mean, shiney things are good, expensive means you're cool, confusing things make you look smart. It's win-win-win as far as I can see?I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »WHERE'S YOUR PROOF, NOOB?
b:cute
And besides, it's not like posting these things will stop people from doing stupid things. DoTs are shiney, expensive and Attack Levels are confusing. So why the hell not shard with them? I mean, shiney things are good, expensive means you're cool, confusing things make you look smart. It's win-win-win as far as I can see?
Lol, okay okay. And honestly, the main reasons I posted is so I can point at the math in game rather than having to explain in whispers and so other peple can see the math and help me mass flame our village idiots.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Lol, okay okay. And honestly, the main reasons I posted is so I can point at the math in game rather than having to explain in whispers and so other peple can see the math and help me mass flame our village idiots.
Putting numbers in front of me in the form of equations just makes me cryb:surrender...
So here is what my dumbass will do...put Dot's into shards and test dmg in pve and pvp....
then put garnets and test....whichever is higher I will use that one... Oh and I plan on buying garnets and vit stones half and half for all gear... Think about a sin (sage) with 125 att lvl and 12k hp with with 2.5 aps base b:laugh... Although the calculator makes it look pretty I am anxious to get up there and see what it does for real.... Except a certain shooting beta just came out so no pwi time till further noticeb:avoid[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Other names include but not limited to LOKl_ _ClRCE_, _AnGeal_0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »I mean, shiney things are good, expensive means you're cool, confusing things make you look smart.
^ this. Why make things more complicated then they are. Why get r9 daggers? Because they match pink fashion ofc! b:cute0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »^ this. Why make things more complicated then they are. Why get r9 daggers? Because they match pink fashion ofc! b:cute
My mystic looks like freaking god in it b:sinDemon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Math In Your Assassin Forums?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Math In Your Assassin Forums?
I bought some LA armor from an archer and some basic "how to" of math was scribbled inside. Thought I'd share. Oh, and inside the boots "Sin's suck, archer's rule" was written, too D=Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Oh, and inside the boots "Sin's suck, archer's rule" was written, too D=Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
This should be stickied, or added into a stickied guide or something...so I can point people to it easily b:victory0
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Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Math In Your Assassin Forums?Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »I bought some LA armor from an archer and some basic "how to" of math was scribbled inside. Thought I'd share. Oh, and inside the boots "Sin's suck, archer's rule" was written, too D=
That must've been an Archer who wasn't a native speaker of English then.Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »We have an archer-turned-sin in here who's native language is Teh Mathz.
Hey, don't just give out my secret identity like that!
b:cuteI am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Hey, don't just give out my secret identity like that!
b:cuteDemon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »Math In Your Assassin Forums?
Ofc, everyone loves math! It's like DoTOlbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »And besides, it's not like posting these things will stop people from doing stupid things. DoTs are shiney, expensive and Attack Levels are confusing. So why the hell not shard with them? I mean, shiney things are good, expensive means you're cool, confusing things make you look smart. It's win-win-win as far as I can see?
Figures look scientific so they make you look like you know what you're talking about, Formulas look confusing so they make you look smart, Math is a universal langue so make it look like you are part of that elite class that is smarter then the rest. b:avoid0 -
Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »Ofc, everyone loves math! It's like DoT
Indeed, everyone loves.Figures look scientific so they make you look like you know what you're talking about, Formulas look confusing so they make you look smart, Math is a universal langue so make it look like you are part of that elite class that is smarter then the rest. b:avoid
Well of course. A lot of people give me strange looks when I say "math is fun".
But yes, those assumptions seem pretty true. Just by being a math major at uni, I seem to get a label of "highly intelligent young man".I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0
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