Veno Fox form and Melee Weapons

Harlyu - Archosaur · September 2011

I understand a lot of people may not agree this is a good idea however I would like to suggest that venos can morph into fox form while having melee weapons equiped.

The reason I say this is because I recently decided I wanted to attempt a APS build veno for things such as pk and tw and it would be nice not needing to use magic weapons for melee attacks.

The Veno melee mastery only applies to while in fox form so even if i was to roll one now i would be missing out on a whole load of attack power.

while some people are no doubt gonna start saying "APS for a veno is a stupid idea" or ""this game has become all about APS" All i am saying is to think about allowing the use of a skill which can benefit one of the many versatile roles a veno can play. I Personally have a 100 arcane veno with both herc and nix and although trying out other character classes the veno is definitely my favorite skill wise and it would be nice to try something new with a class that I love.

Hope to hear what everyone thinks about this idea ty b:victory

krittycat · September 2011

Harlyu - Archosaur wrote: »

I understand a lot of people may not agree this is a good idea however I would like to suggest that venos can morph into fox form while having melee weapons equiped.

The reason I say this is because I recently decided I wanted to attempt a APS build veno for things such as pk and tw and it would be nice not needing to use magic weapons for melee attacks.

The Veno melee mastery only applies to while in fox form so even if i was to roll one now i would be missing out on a whole load of attack power.

while some people are no doubt gonna start saying "APS for a veno is a stupid idea" or ""this game has become all about APS" All i am saying is to think about allowing the use of a skill which can benefit one of the many versatile roles a veno can play. I Personally have a 100 arcane veno with both herc and nix and although trying out other character classes the veno is definitely my favorite skill wise and it would be nice to try something new with a class that I love.

Hope to hear what everyone thinks about this idea ty b:victory

Veno's fox form melee mastery + 5 aps = b:shocked

Anyway, 5aps is near useless without stuns/sleeps, which a veno has none of. You're just looking to get crushed out of the gate, eh? 5aps is nearly useless in PvP and TW anyway, much moreso without the control skills that BMs and Sins have.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

I like it
Support b:victory

krittycat · September 2011

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I like it
Support b:victory

The only way I would support this was if they were suggesting a new branch of weapons for the fox form. As it is, if they were able to use Claws in fox form, venos would join the ranks of current OP classes. Amp + Melee Mastery + 5aps = GG.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

KrittyCat wrote: »

The only way I would support this was if they were suggesting a new branch of weapons for the fox form. As it is, if they were able to use Claws in fox form, venos would join the ranks of current OP classes. Amp + Melee Mastery + 5aps = GG.

Support this as well b:chuckle b:victory

truekossy · September 2011

As someone who enjoys heavy/robe venos and could easily take advantage of this.... I'd love it. As someone with sense and knowledge of how the game works... not so much.

Here's a little comparison for you.
http://pwcalc.com/9efd0cf91867e1eb Veno assuming it goes for full APS
http://pwcalc.com/331f6b1db9c2525b BM
http://pwcalc.com/0dfed3158a57f4ed Sin

To keep things even (read: because I was too lazy to optimize the sin's gear), all of them are using second cast Nirvana weapons with the same properties (-0.1 int and +crit).

Assassin's DPS (ignoring wolf emblem because I'm lazy): 204106
BM's DPS: 172714 A good bit lower than the sin's, but that's to be expected.
Veno's DPS: 174691 Hey look. The veno now out-DPSs the BM with the BM's own weapon!

See, the problem here? With archers, it's close but goes slightly in favor of the BM before even considering BP. With barbs, they'll out-DPS a BM as long as the BM doesn't have titans as well. The instant the BM has titans as well (IE: being in the same squad), BM out-does the barb. For a veno who can use melee weapons in fox form, on the other hand.... not only will they have less repairs due to attacking slower than the BMs, but they'd also be out-DPSing the BM as well!

And in PvP? Your veno would be totally nullified by the fact that people can see you coming. People already try to keep venos they see in fox form far away because of purge. If the venos had APS too but none of the control skills other classes that use APS in PvP have (and even for them, outside of sins it's not too effective since they aren't invisible) you'd simply be another target still.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Still supporting. b:victory

Harlyu - Archosaur · September 2011

KrittyCat wrote: »

Veno's fox form melee mastery + 5 aps = b:shocked

Anyway, 5aps is near useless without stuns/sleeps, which a veno has none of.

Venos do have a stun b:surrender technically three. one from lucky scarab, one from a nix pet (if you have one) and the proc on parasitic nova can freeze an enemy.
I dont mean only for aps eitherbut also for a HA veno it would be more effective for some if they had the option of a melee weapon and being able to use it in fox form instead of a magic weapon.

truekossy · September 2011

The number of scenarios where a heavy/robe veno will prefer to melee an opponent in fox instead of casting when in PvP are few and far between.... and in those cases, 2.22 does the job just fine when it's needed.

Harlyu - Archosaur · September 2011

truekossy wrote: »

The number of scenarios where a heavy/robe veno will prefer to melee an opponent in fox instead of casting when in PvP are few and far between.... and in those cases, 2.22 does the job just fine when it's needed.

Fair enough point however all I meant to say is that it would be nice to be able to fully optimize that aspect of the veno and it is purely a personal choice. maybe its because I enjoy looking at creating bizarre yet workable builds or maybe i'm just bizarre lol. however there is no denying that the fox form is one of the least used aspects of the veno and this is something I feel would help to promote more players attempting that build because they will be able to make better use of it than is currently possible using the magic weapons only

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · September 2011

It still won't come close to out-damaging sins unfortunately (especially with their zerk weapons and wolf emblem). You can't really say it would break the game when the game is already broken.

krittycat · September 2011

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can't really say it would break the game when the game is already broken.

Broken things can be broken further.

Harlyu - Archosaur · September 2011

But Breaking something broken can sometimes fix it b:chuckle

Amencat - Sanctuary · October 2011

Harlyu - Archosaur wrote: »

But Breaking something broken can sometimes fix it b:chuckle

exactly

support the idea strongly,

couse for real veno in fox form are useless by now,

or for real make a special veno weopon with high mag and str attak!

Yami_ - Dreamweaver · October 2011

Bump!

however there is no denying that the fox form is one of the least used aspects of the veno and this is something I feel would help to promote more players attempting that build because they will be able to make better use of it than is currently possible using the magic weapons only

True, this forum can support you, just look at the veno thread, all the heavy venos quits after some time, cause It doesn't worth, everything that the game have works for melee venos, for example:

*MP reduction in fox form, for you be close of a melee character, since they don't spend points in Int;
*Attack bonus with mastery, that It's good;
*Increased def, since you wear robes this will help to reduce the penality, if you go light armor you won't will have spare points for HP, so It will be: +Def/-HP (same thing).

BUT the attack gain really It's little for a melee character, my max damage at lv70 was the minimun damage of a Blademaster using swords, the duration of the fox form skills really don't worth the trouble for cast then (and WTF is that Malefic Crush debuff? Worthless debuff ever, everyone have charms and can pot), most of the light venos that I know preffer build a atk spd reduction set, cast Amplify Damage and then smack down the boss with fists.

I understand that the pet It's part of the Veno damage, but a good PvP pet is the one that can fly, and honestly the game should give to Venos different options than sawflies since they die in one hit. Today for a Veno a Nix is a must-have, better don't be a Veno if you don't have Nix and Hercules, and the way that the Mystic summons developes are way better, the Veno pets should work like that too, actualy It's a waste of soul to spend on those pet skills other than Flesh Realm and stun.

PS: talking about PVP, for the pets everything works for PVE.
Edit: I forgot to mention that they receive hit rate in fox form too, for compensate the lack of Dex.

Harlyu - Archosaur · October 2011

Just want to say thanks guys for your positive feedback on this b:victory
Hopefully we can get something to compliment fox form even if it is as said before adding a magic weapon to the game with lower mag attack and higher phys attack along with melee weapon bonuses or even allowing the use of current melee weapon in fox form

Kremia - Lost City · January 2012

I more than support this.
You will rarely see a veno in fox form (only maybe to use a few skills then change again).
The melee mastery and melee skills are really useless skill since, by the limitation of the magic wep, no veno is going for a melee build.
Venos have a hard time getting in frost squads and such, but having the chance to get high aps and a descent melee wep will really improve things.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · January 2012

Well at least you didn't necro the thread or anything. . . .

Veno Fox form and Melee Weapons

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