Minimum MP for Yataghan Vortex
Killergen - Lothranis
Posts: 6 Arc User
I am lvl67 with 1300 MP(with some mp bonus). i try vortex skill on quest mob with normal MP charm and the vortex continue 2 iteration after the mob died and stoppedb:cry.
now i need a reason why my vortex interrupt/stop?
Do i need addition mp for a success vortex for my zhen?
How many mp i need for vortex?
I have lvl 2 Yataghan vortexb:shocked
now i need a reason why my vortex interrupt/stop?
Do i need addition mp for a success vortex for my zhen?
How many mp i need for vortex?
I have lvl 2 Yataghan vortexb:shocked
Post edited by Killergen - Lothranis on
0
Comments
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Your vortex cancels because your mp is not regenerating quickly enough and even your charm cannot keep up with it.
You MP is not too bad, but the problem is not really lying with you MP, but rather what you can use to regen your MP quickly. Unfortunately a MP charm, at most lvls is not going to be extremely useful for very long.
Once you hit 75 you can start using Herbs that regen (I think) 5000 mp over 10 second, and that is sufficient for vortex to be run indefinately. Before you hit 75 though I would suggest 2 things:
1. Keep your vortex lvl as low as you can, I kept mine at 1 till I hit 75, it uses less mp and although you are losing out on damage done, I would rather be able to keep a low level vortex going longer than a high level vortex while soloing. The higher vortex might do more damage but you do not want it to cancel on you in the middle of a big group of mobs, e.g. nix valley.
2. Get yourself some apo mp powders, those that give x amount of mp over 30 seconds. The apo lvl 3 or 4 ones are best, but I found the lvl 3 ones worked just fine for me. Also just remember to drink a powder before you vortex. For some reason, if I vortex then try to drink a powder my vortex does not drop but it just will NOT accept the powder.
Anyway, my 2 cents worth.Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
Green vegetables would be so much more popular if they tasted like bacon.0 -
Minimum level to keep it up with a charm is around 1700-1800.
I have about 1800 and can keep level 3 Vortex Up with an MP Charm with no problem. I've been doing this since level 60 and it is a lot of fun. You can clear Phoenix Valley solo/duo in minutes. You can even Tank Rankar solo if you are HP charmed + Bloodpainted.
The trick is to get an Arcane headpiece with 4 slots and some extra mana stats. Shard with Flawless Turquoise +80 Mana each. That is 320 mana + say another 150 from +mana stats that are fairly common on headpieces. DO NOT add Mag to your base stats, it is a waste.
If you are still short, add a Robe with +mana stats and or shards. You can always swap out with a helmet when you aren't using Vortex.0 -
As for mp, I personally sharded my cape with +100mp shards. They're fairly cheap and add quite some mp. Also ornaments with +mp are nice. An arcane helmet can also help indeed, though I personally prefer to wear an hp one.
I already have a (mag) ring with some +mp stats for higher lvls laying around.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
HildieGarde - Heavens Tear wrote: »The trick is to get an Arcane headpiece with 4 slots and some extra mana stats. Shard with Flawless Aquamarines +80 Mana each. That is 320 mana + say another 150 from +mana stats that are fairly common on headpieces. DO NOT add Mag to your base stats, it is a waste.
I think you mean Turquoise, not Aquamarine (Aquamarine add wood defense in armor.)
My 68 seeker (5 base mag) has 1800+ MP through using Turquoise shards (mostly average) and +MP equipment. While an arcane hat would certainly help, she uses a helmet.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think you mean Turquoise, not Aquamarine (Aquamarine add wood defense in armor.)
My 68 seeker (5 base mag) has 1800+ MP through using Turquoise shards (mostly average) and +MP equipment. While an arcane hat would certainly help, she uses a helmet.
Yes Turquoise shards, my bad, the server was on maintenance and I couldn't log on to check my equip. As you indicated there are several ways to get +mana. It just so happened I found nice arcane +mana headpiece stuff in AH fairly cheap.
I would avoid sharding armor with it though since you want to reserve those slots for Citrine HP shards.0 -
HildieGarde - Heavens Tear wrote: »Minimum level to keep it up with a charm is around 1700-1800.
I have about 1800 and can keep level 3 Vortex Up with an MP Charm with no problem. I've been doing this since level 60 and it is a lot of fun. You can clear Phoenix Valley solo/duo in minutes. You can even Tank Rankar solo if you are HP charmed + Bloodpainted.
The trick is to get an Arcane headpiece with 4 slots and some extra mana stats. Shard with Flawless Turquoise +80 Mana each. That is 320 mana + say another 150 from +mana stats that are fairly common on headpieces. DO NOT add Mag to your base stats, it is a waste.
If you are still short, add a Robe with +mana stats and or shards. You can always swap out with a helmet when you aren't using Vortex.
As per your advice, i made my mp to 1816 and try to hold vortex without cleric buff. Now vortex continue for 10 iteration and got interrupt againb:shocked. i dont know why.
U r right, i saw a seeker holding lvl 10 vortex with 1750 MP. Can u tell me why i cant hold vortex? or is they any lvl requirement to hold vortex with charm? do i need cleric buff for holding vortex?0 -
Killergen - Lothranis wrote: »As per your advice, i made my mp to 1816 and try to hold vortex without cleric buff. Now vortex continue for 10 iteration and got interrupt againb:shocked. i dont know why.
U r right, i saw a seeker holding lvl 10 vortex with 1750 MP. Can u tell me why i cant hold vortex? or is they any lvl requirement to hold vortex with charm? do i need cleric buff for holding vortex?
Watch your MP bar, does it go down to 0? If so it might be that you need a little more Mana if your Vortex is lvl 2. The other Seeker with 1750 mana may have lvl 1 Vortex. I double checked my Mana and it is just over 1900 now and that holds level 3 Vortex quite well.
In the beginning I did have some interruption, but as I kept adding mana+ equipment it became stable. I think there is a little bit of randomness in the split second timing of the Charm tick, so having a little extra buffers that.
A Cleric buff won't help that much, lvl 10 Cleric MP regen buff only adds 10 mana per second regen.
Edit: I just reread it and you said the other Seeker had level TEN Vortex at 1750 mana, that can only be possible if he is using the level 75 mana pots Herb Yuanxiao, 5000MP over 10 secs.0 -
I have to say that Im lvl 82 seeker and I have around 2300 mana
I still cant keep Vortex (lvl 8) only with a charm >.> so I have herbs... they are so cheap that I have something like 900 in my inventory atm! With the herbs I could finaly lvl up my Vortex... I left it at lvl 1 till 75. I plvled from 53 to 69 so I didnt have to wait long LOL. I power leveled MYSELF from 69 to 82
. With a help of a cleric for hp... (spent 13 million on my equipment and Perfect mana shard)b:surrender 0 -
I decided to do this mathematically and found something strange.
In theory the formula for the amount of mana needed should be:
[Vortex Mana Consumption Per 1.5 secs/1.5] x 5 secs (cooldown for mana charm) = Mana pool required
My level 3 Vortex says it consumes 318.5 mana per 1.5 secs, which in theory means I need [318.5/1.5] x 5 = 1062 mana
This we all know is way below what is necessary which means there is some significant time delay or error in stats shown.
Reverse engineering it from my own mana pool of 1989, I get an implied delay of 4.35 seconds.
Meaning that it takes 5 secs + 4.35 secs=9.35secs for the Charm tick to refill Vortex consumption. (or, that the mana consumption is much higher than stated in the skill stats)
This makes the formula something like:
[Vortex Mana Consumption Per 1.5 secs/1.5] x 9.35 secs (cooldown for mana charm) = Mana Pool needed
Can others who have the ability to maintain Vortex with charm only verify this at different levels, or give an explanation?0 -
HildieGarde - Heavens Tear wrote: »I decided to do this mathematically and found something strange.
In theory the formula for the amount of mana needed should be:
[Vortex Mana Consumption Per 1.5 secs/1.5] x 5 secs (cooldown for mana charm) = Mana pool required
My level 3 Vortex says it consumes 318.5 mana per 1.5 secs, which in theory means I need [318.5/1.5] x 5 = 1062 mana
This we all know is way below what is necessary which means there is some significant time delay or error in stats shown.
Reverse engineering it from my own mana pool of 1989, I get an implied delay of 4.35 seconds.
Meaning that it takes 5 secs + 4.35 secs=9.35secs for the Charm tick to refill Vortex consumption. (or, that the mana consumption is much higher than stated in the skill stats)
This makes the formula something like:
[Vortex Mana Consumption Per 1.5 secs/1.5] x 9.35 secs (cooldown for mana charm) = Mana Pool needed
Can others who have the ability to maintain Vortex with charm only verify this at different levels, or give an explanation?
Well first I believe vortex really does 2 attacks every 3 seconds instead of 1 attack every 1.5seconds. This means you need the mp for those 2 attacks at all times if you want to keep vortex up. If you get an attack off right after the start of the tick and before the end then the mp charm is ticking over 3 iterations of 2 attacks (MP charm tick is 5 seconds).
3x2 = 6 so you need 6 times the base MP cost of the skill to keep vortex up.
For your lvl 3 vortex 6*318.5 = 1911 MP which fits pretty well with what you observe to be required.
That's if it behaves similar to barrage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Well first I believe vortex really does 2 attacks every 3 seconds instead of 1 attack every 1.5seconds. This means you need the mp for those 2 attacks at all times if you want to keep vortex up. If you get an attack off right after the start of the tick and before the end then the mp charm is ticking over 3 iterations of 2 attacks (MP charm tick is 5 seconds).
3x2 = 6 so you need 6 times the base MP cost of the skill to keep vortex up.
For your lvl 3 vortex 6*318.5 = 1911 MP which fits pretty well with what you observe to be required.
That's if it behaves similar to barrage.
Well that makes sense since PWCN Devs probably reuse programming code from other classes.
The thing is that the mana bar looks like it goes down smoothly as if continuously channeling - or using mana, and not in 3 second jumps. Maybe it is just smoke and mirrors.
To the OP it looks like you have a couple of ways to calculate out how much Mana you need.0 -
tyvm for your reply. i decided to level to 75 and used Herb Yuanxiao for holding vortex. Using charm at this level is waste of money for me.
thank for mathematical part behind the vortex. i used vortex on aoe grinding. even though i cant hold vortex, i really enjoy it but i lost my 45lvl supply slash charm in 1 hour.0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Well first I believe vortex really does 2 attacks every 3 seconds instead of 1 attack every 1.5seconds. This means you need the mp for those 2 attacks at all times if you want to keep vortex up. If you get an attack off right after the start of the tick and before the end then the mp charm is ticking over 3 iterations of 2 attacks (MP charm tick is 5 seconds).
3x2 = 6 so you need 6 times the base MP cost of the skill to keep vortex up.
For your lvl 3 vortex 6*318.5 = 1911 MP which fits pretty well with what you observe to be required.
That's if it behaves similar to barrage.
Ast you're awesome! Been waiting for a simple calculation on forums for ages about vortex mp cost.
I also think it's more likely 2 attacks every 3 seconds. It indeed drops if you don't have enough mp for 2 attacks.
If your calculation 6 * base MP cost = minimum mp pool is right (which I think it is)
mp cost would be as following for each skill lv(rounded up to whole numbers):
1735MP - lvl 1 vortex
1823MP - lvl 2 vortex
1911MP - lvl 3 vortex
2000MP - lvl 4 vortex
2088MP - lvl 5 vortex
2176MP - lvl 6 vortex
2264MP - lvl 7 vortex
3252MP - lvl 8 vortex
2441MP - lvl 9 vortex
2529MP - lvl 10 vortex
2610MP - lvl 11 vortex(sage/demon)
You will want +mp gear(hat, ornaments, rings, whatever) since with base mp you would be able to keep up lvl 1 vortex at lvl 95 otherwise and not earlier XD
@Hildie: I personally don't think the mp goes down smoothly, also I do notice that even if there's 1 mob left in aoe, it shows in damage log 2 hits right after eachother (so not with 1,5 second in between)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary wrote: »I also think it's more likely 2 attacks every 3 seconds. It indeed drops if you don't have enough mp for 2 attacks.
If your calculation 6 * base MP cost = minimum mp pool is right (which I think it is)
mp cost would be as following for each skill lv(rounded up to whole numbers):
1735MP - lvl 1 vortex
1823MP - lvl 2 vortex
1911MP - lvl 3 vortex
2000MP - lvl 4 vortex
2088MP - lvl 5 vortex
2176MP - lvl 6 vortex
2264MP - lvl 7 vortex
3252MP - lvl 8 vortex
2441MP - lvl 9 vortex
2529MP - lvl 10 vortex
2610MP - lvl 11 vortex(sage/demon)
You will want +mp gear(hat, ornaments, rings, whatever) since with base mp you would be able to keep up lvl 1 vortex at lvl 95 otherwise and not earlier XD
@Hildie: I personally don't think the mp goes down smoothly, also I do notice that even if there's 1 mob left in aoe, it shows in damage log 2 hits right after eachother (so not with 1,5 second in between)
Thanks for calculating it out. Now I'll know (as my +mana equipment improves) when I can upgrade Vortex.
I'll have to bookmark this.0 -
Oh yeah, thanks all, now I know I won't bother trying to get all that MP and just keep spamming pots b:chuckle0
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ItsAWolf - Archosaur wrote: »Oh yeah, thanks all, now I know I won't bother trying to get all that MP and just keep spamming pots b:chuckle
You will still have to spam mp food to keep it up... Oo;
Just that if you have per example lvl 11 vortex, but under 2610 mp, there's no way you're gonna keep it up o,o[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary wrote: »You will still have to spam mp food to keep it up... Oo;
Just that if you have per example lvl 11 vortex, but under 2610 mp, there's no way you're gonna keep it up o,o
Thought these were the numbers to keep it up with MP charm. Since MP charms don't regenerate continuously, but only in 5(?) second intervals, while pot spamming will keep up continuous MP so you'll need less maximum MP to sustain your vortex.
By pots I mean the lvl 75 event pots in this case. I've been using a combination of MP pots (the ones you get with divine contracts, 1k mp in 10 seconds) + MP charm so far, but I imagine I won't be needing the MP charm anymore once I get to lvl 75.0 -
Yes these are supposed to be numbers for Charm only.ItsAWolf - Archosaur wrote: »Thought these were the numbers to keep it up with MP charm. Since MP charms don't regenerate continuously, but only in 5(?) second intervals, while pot spamming will keep up continuous MP so you'll need less maximum MP to sustain your vortex.
BTW, @Hazumi_Chan, I think the calcs are a little off as I have been able to maintain Vortex level 4 and 5 at less Mana than indicated. Maybe 50-100 less although I didn't have the means to test the exact cutoff.0 -
In that case I gues Wolf is right there. Maybe Asterelle can confirm that?
I wonder what the calculation could be then for mp cost with spamming pots >_<"
Atm I have 2074mp and lvl 4 Vortex.
I have a cape with 3 +100mp shards. I'll try if I can still keep up my lvl 4 vortex without it. I do notice I sometimes get away with half mp and then clicking a pot.. P:
EDIT: tested, without cape I have 1774mp and keep up a lvl 4 vortex.
Now I really wanna know what the formula is for keeping it up with pots
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary wrote: »In that case I gues Wolf is right there. Maybe Asterelle can confirm that?
I wonder what the calculation could be then for mp cost with spamming pots >_<"
Atm I have 2074mp and lvl 4 Vortex.
I have a cape with 3 +100mp shards. I'll try if I can still keep up my lvl 4 vortex without it. I do notice I sometimes get away with half mp and then clicking a pot.. P:
EDIT: tested, without cape I have 1774mp and keep up a lvl 4 vortex.
Now I really wanna know what the formula is for keeping it up with pots
This thread was all about maintaining Vortex with MP Charm ONLY, all the calcs here are designed for this purpose.
I think if you are using the MP Pot - Herb Yuanxiao 5000MP over 10 secs, you don't need any extra mana stats, even level 11 Vortex uses less mana over 10 secs than the Pot generates. The only thing a larger mana pool would benefit you is more buffer time to click on a new Pot without accidentally running out of Mana.0 -
HildieGarde - Heavens Tear wrote: »This thread was all about maintaining Vortex with MP Charm ONLY, all the calcs here are designed for this purpose.
I think if you are using the MP Pot - Herb Yuanxiao 5000MP over 10 secs, you don't need any extra mana stats, even level 11 Vortex uses less mana over 10 secs than the Pot generates. The only thing a larger mana pool would benefit you is more buffer time to click on a new Pot without accidentally running out of Mana.
Indeed, ever since my seeker reached lvl 75+ he doesn't really require any MP gear. So considering the pots are so very cheap, I'd definitely recommend staying away from MP charms after 75, which also means you can safely max your vortex.0 -
Alright then
that clears up a lot ^^
Thanks for the answer
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I don't see a problem, I have level 10 vortex and only use mp food and i can keep vortex going forever if needed and been able to do so since 75 leveling vortex to max as it was unlocked....am i the only one not having a issue with mp? i only have like 1700 mp i just spam mp food every 30 secs and i am fine[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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KolaKnight - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't see a problem, I have level 10 vortex and only use mp food and i can keep vortex going forever if needed and been able to do so since 75 leveling vortex to max as it was unlocked....am i the only one not having a issue with mp? i only have like 1700 mp i just spam mp food every 30 secs and i am fine
This is about using just an MP charm so you can AFK vortex, nobody will have issues using mp food.0
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