When does p def start giving diminishing returns

Well, I have 4k+ phys def unbuffed over 6k self buffed and 8080 with bm buff and 5.7k hp. Not sure at what point you change your shards, but for me I have 2 garnets in each peice of my top, shoes, pants and wrists and working on JoSD for the other 2 spots. In my helm and cape i've done hp shards. It seems to be pretty good and I like it. Keep sharding for def, refine your gear for HP is what I learned as I built my cleric.

Diminishing returns is also kind of a misnomer, too.

Even though it takes more and more pdef to increase your damage reduction 1%, its so much diminishing because that 1% becomes a larger chunk of the damage you are taking.

For instance: lets say going 4k to 5k pdef increase you from 50% to 55% damage reduction. That means 1k pdef increased your dmg reduction 5% and decreased the amount of dmg you take by 10% (you used to take 50% dmg, now you take 45% damage, or 90% as much as before.)

Lets say you go from 9k to 10k pdef. Again, its 1k increase but lets say that takes you from 80% dmg reduction to 82% (only 2% this time) but you have decrease the amount of dmg you recieve by 10%.



Those aren't real numbers, just examples. There is an actual diminishing return, but its much more slight than most people thing.

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There's a FANTASTIC post where violetvalor used lagrange multipliers to calculate efficiency given one's stats as constraints. If you find that, it's a solid metric to guide you to the "magic point."

EDIT: Found it... http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=14130041#post14130041

QQ My brain... It just caught on fire. And not that easily extinguished fire that water puts out, either, this is like a grease fire.

Seriously, OP, you have two choices when it comes to PDef:

1) You can get as much PDef as you can without going LA or HA and have really high survivability, good healing, and pretty damn good HP, OR
2) You can get every -channeling piece of gear you can find, and have like... NO Pdef, but be able to completely obliterate 10k mana points in like 5 seconds by spamming Stream of Rejuvenation on someone (and heal them for close to a million HP in that time too).

If you want -channeling, you sacrifice PDef. If you want PDef, you typically don't get to have -channeling. And by -channeling, I mean like -90% channeling.

Alternatively you can get two sets of ornaments and armor, one for -channeling and one for PDef. PDef is cheap, -channeling is expensive.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

QQ My brain... It just caught on fire. And not that easily extinguished fire that water puts out, either, this is like a grease fire.

Seriously, OP, you have two choices when it comes to PDef:

1) You can get as much PDef as you can without going LA or HA and have really high survivability, good healing, and pretty damn good HP, OR
2) You can get every -channeling piece of gear you can find, and have like... NO Pdef, but be able to completely obliterate 10k mana points in like 5 seconds by spamming Stream of Rejuvenation on someone (and heal them for close to a million HP in that time too).

If you want -channeling, you sacrifice PDef. If you want PDef, you typically don't get to have -channeling. And by -channeling, I mean like -90% channeling.

Alternatively you can get two sets of ornaments and armor, one for -channeling and one for PDef. PDef is cheap, -channeling is expensive.

Channeling on clerics really isn't that great beyond -30chan or so which is easily attainable without using -chan ornas. Pdef vs. chan ornas is totally also not what this thread is about.

TrueHarmony - Archosaur wrote: »

So as things stand now i have 4.7k hp unbuffed and 5k p def with just my buff(7.5 while sage vanguard is active <,<). Im not really near my end game build, arch angel sleeves are my newest/highest piece, armor is mostly on hold as im spamming nirvana for my glaive lol


...anyway

I'm planning on getting cube neck/belt + Cloud charger(sharded with garnet gem...or josd if i strike oil somewhere)in terms of major p def upgrades for my end game gear, but i was wondering whats a good cap for p def, when does it start giving diminishing returns thus making it more useful to divert the points into hp

Maybe making a pwcalc of what you think your final gear is going be like might be useful so we can make some suggestions. I remember reading voiletvalor's posts a while back and thought they were really interesting and well thought out.

Personally i've liked a simpler rule when I used to play with builds (because i'm not so clever b:chuckle). I would try to aim for a pdef (with cleric buffs) of ~ 60-65% of HP for a nicely balanced build. So once i'd decided how much i was going to refine the ornaments I could see how many pdef shards i should be adding. Going higher than that and HP shards would effectively give similar phys survivability to pdef shards. (Probably not exactly true and I doubt it works at high HP but was a bit of a reference more than anything)

Of course I didnt actually follow this myself on my own char so i'm possibly not the person you should be listening to! b:chuckle