Bash or fleshream or something else for herc?

zelgadis
zelgadis Posts: 3
edited September 2011 in Venomancer
Everyone been telling me to get one or another or some other skill for herc.

I am looking for a skill that will keep aggro.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Try Claw. If you can ever find it. Would be a nice addition to a Herc and should give you enough DPS on the big yellow guy to hold aggro better.

    But really, Reflect is your primary aggro skill on herc.

    If there was a 50 Veno/Herc and a 50 Veno/Nix both trying the same thing, the Nix's higher DPS with it self buffed will mean it would take aggro pretty much instantly from the Herc.

    But the Nix would have trouble, say, tanking 12 mobs at once, or even holding aggro against them all with you healing it. Herc wouldn't have a problem, assuming they're all Melee, due to reflect.

    So, if you put Claw on a herc it might help some. Really there's not much else you can do. Just don't replace Reflect with Claw. >_>
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  • Asgardeus - Sanctuary
    Asgardeus - Sanctuary Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    What the... ignore that complete bs above o.o Makes no sense at all.

    Most venos I know replaced pounce with bash. Short cooldown, nice physical agro skill. Flesh ream also works, but it's got a longer cooldown and the bleed wouldn't be as effective as on a phoenix due to the hercs lower attack.

    Just go with bash and you can't go wrong :)
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    With new caster nirvana - I think I'd recommend an elemental bash - probably either toxic mist (so that it has the same boosts as you, to give it the best chance at holding aggro against you) or fireball (the opposite boosts to actually hurt the stuff that resist you)

    But your herc cannot and will not hold aggro the way a proper tank can. And since even THEY cannot hold aggro against spazzin-sins, I suggest you give up any hope of doing so. (A real proper player will know how to turn down the aggro, of course. If you meet one, throw them a party.)

    Claw is non-terrible suggestion - however a herc won't get the kind of benefit from it a faster pet would.
  • vampirenite
    vampirenite Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Bash is the best skill to replace Pounce with. But remember to level it to 5 at the same time. That together with the Reflect will hold aggro quite well when soloing.

    It has been heavily discussed and calculated in the past and I remember Bash coming out on top followed by Flesh Ream if you use the Herc for PvP.

    That being said I'm sorry to say once you get into the higher levels say 80+, you are going to find that Sins and BMs are going to pull aggro from your Herc no matter what you do. When BMs pull aggro it isn't so bad because they can usually tank quite well. When Sins do it they usually end up dying.

    It has got to the point where I rarely play my Veno now since I find that in squads I'm only useful for Amp and on a few bosses Purge. The usual fun role of being Main tank, DD and Healer all in one becomes obsolete if you have an APS in your squad.
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Try Claw. If you can ever find it. Would be a nice addition to a Herc and should give you enough DPS on the big yellow guy to hold aggro better.

    But really, Reflect is your primary aggro skill on herc.

    If there was a 50 Veno/Herc and a 50 Veno/Nix both trying the same thing, the Nix's higher DPS with it self buffed will mean it would take aggro pretty much instantly from the Herc.

    But the Nix would have trouble, say, tanking 12 mobs at once, or even holding aggro against them all with you healing it. Herc wouldn't have a problem, assuming they're all Melee, due to reflect.

    So, if you put Claw on a herc it might help some. Really there's not much else you can do. Just don't replace Reflect with Claw. >_>

    Or dont put claw at all for goodness sake.. Comapring a Herc to a Nix doesnt make sense , really . whatever ......

    @ OP : Bash is the best skill to let herc get aggro and its normal elemental damage will hit through most bosses (some are Immune to some elements).

    @ Vitenka : Wouldnt another DD pet like Seamonster guardian or Wanderer do much more damage through an elemental bash ??? im not sure about this since i dont have a herc yet. Some help here would be wonderful.
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  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    all the bashes do damage equal to some percentage of the pet's base attack stat, so a pet with more powerful base attack bashes harder too. the herc, of course, has amazing defenses and HP but not that great attack, really.

    i'm not positive if the bash calculation gets multiplied in with the base attack bonus from claw or not. i think it does, but i haven't bothered to actually find out yet.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Stick with Bash (either elemental or normal). Most Venomancers replace Pounce with Bash for a reason.

    Flesh Ream doesn't work well enough due to its longer cooldown. Roar is a very nice skill but it basicaly resets aggro so chances are that if you use Roar a member of your squad with high damage output will just steal aggro (again). I see Roar more of an emergency skill, when things go wrong and you want the boss/mob to switch hate on your pet immidiately (eg. tank dies and targets the cleric).
    Claw is not a terrible idea but I believe it benefits DD pets (pets with high physical attack) much more.
    The reflect skill plays a major role in keeping aggro for the Hercules.

    Thing is, players have better weapons (and gear) than two years ago and high refines are easier to get (mega orb sale going on as we speak) and so they are stonger, thus the Hercules is no longer the best dps nor tank in squads.


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  • Tabbycat - Harshlands
    Tabbycat - Harshlands Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    When it came to my herc, most venos did tell me to replace pounce with bash. I did and it keeps agro very well. It even stole agro from a lvl 95 barb in fc (it was 89 at the time). Fleshream on a herc o.O Ive heard of it being done but in my opinion flesh reams cooldown is too long. Bash's cooldown is way faster. Besides fleshream is mainly used on nixes.
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  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    What do you plan on doing with your herc?

    Do you plan to tank?
    Go with Bash. Short cooldown and nice damage. Aggro is kept on the herc by Reflect damage + attack damage + skill usage. So if and when you lose aggro, reflect won't help you at all and it'll be harder to gain aggro back if you don't have an attack skill helping you out. Plus, while Reflect will help with AOE grinding, it's important to have an actual attack skill as well. Reflect alone won't always cut it.

    Do you plan to be a back up tank?
    Go with Roar. It works by clearing the aggro table and giving a small amount of aggro to the pet. This is useful if you run with people who have poor internet connections and/or are reckless. If the main tank goes down or a squishy steals aggro, you can let out a Roar to (hopefully) save the day and give the rest of the squad time to react, whether that is to res a dead tank or to stop DD'ing. That said, aggro management is a bit of a lost art in this game with more and more toons gaining the ability to tank things, so don't expect certain DD's to clue in enough to control their damage output. However, keep in mind that Roar is only useful in those few clutch situations.

    Do you plan on PvP'ing?
    While there are many better pets for PvP, I do know some people who use their Herc in this avenue as well. They like to keep Pounce, for the stun, or replace it with Flesh Ream, for the Bleed affect.

    Like others have said, I'd go with Bash. For general use, the standard Bash should suffice. If you want to use your herc in caster-nirvana, an elemental bash is preferred.
  • zelgadis
    zelgadis Posts: 3
    edited September 2011
    That you for all of your feedback :)

    Bash it is then, I just was to do good with pwe, so that my demon skills would not steal aggro from herc. Atm its :( I should not have listenedd and put bash from the start.

    Going to start to look for bash in ah, hopefully its there :)
  • mryc
    mryc Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Haven't checked but can't Bash be bought from the Pet lady in the south east corner of Arch. Or did you mean you want it cheaper?
  • zelgadis
    zelgadis Posts: 3
    edited September 2011
    i meant to have it cheaper! bash 200k + 4 upgrades, that another 200k * 4. so total 1 mill.
  • cre8ive
    cre8ive Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Would be nice if PWI would allow a fifth pet slot on the legendary pets considering the work you have to put in to get one (real life or merchanting) :D

    My last FC run the barb died on a big pull, mobs went after the cleric in BB and by the time i'd summoned my armoured bear and used roar to reset aggro to my pet the poor cleric was dead b:cry.

    Managed to save the other 2 squad members by sacrificing my bear, then demonsprint/holypathing down the corridor and catching the mobs 1 at a time with my resummoned herc til the cleric ran back past me and rezzed the barb, if i had been able to use roar on my herc i could have saved the cleric from dying and losing experience :(

    Considering one of a veno's jobs is to guard the cleric i would love to put roar on my herc but its not worth sacrificing Bash to do it for the few times where things get nasty.

    A fifth pet slot would make veno's a much bigger asset to a squad in tight situations and help to level the playing field a bit for us against all the aps characters b:victory
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    cre8ive wrote: »
    Would be nice if PWI would allow a fifth pet slot on the legendary pets considering the work you have to put in to get one (real life or merchanting) :D

    My last FC run the barb died on a big pull, mobs went after the cleric in BB and by the time i'd summoned my armoured bear and used roar to reset aggro to my pet the poor cleric was dead b:cry.

    Managed to save the other 2 squad members by sacrificing my bear, then demonsprint/holypathing down the corridor and catching the mobs 1 at a time with my resummoned herc til the cleric ran back past me and rezzed the barb, if i had been able to use roar on my herc i could have saved the cleric from dying and losing experience :(

    Considering one of a veno's jobs is to guard the cleric i would love to put roar on my herc but its not worth sacrificing Bash to do it for the few times where things get nasty.

    A fifth pet slot would make veno's a much bigger asset to a squad in tight situations and help to level the playing field a bit for us against all the aps characters b:victory

    Too good , never going to happen :l
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