Other classes prefferring sage veno's over demon?
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You got a point . But tbh in nirvana, there is not much difference since most of the runs dont last long and as long as the veno keeps debuffing . In TT, you can't talk about a few sec . It's much more longer and sage are much more appreciate cause of soul degen . 20% time save on each boss, it's a huge different .0
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Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »You got a point . But tbh in nirvana, there is not much difference since most of the runs dont last long and as long as the veno keeps debuffing . In TT, you can't talk about a few sec . It's much more longer and sage are much more appreciate cause of soul degen . 20% time save on each boss, it's a huge different .
yet you don't see squads clamoring for sage soul degen on TTb:shutup.
oops, may start a craze for sage soul degen for TT squads...there goes my meal ticket. b:avoid0 -
Nine_Lives - Raging Tide wrote: »yet you don't see squads clamoring for sage soul degen on TTb:shutup.
oops, may start a craze for sage soul degen for TT squads...there goes my meal ticket. b:avoid
Did you miss the point ? How many TT3-X did you run as veno ? If you ran that many you should know sage bring advantages, demon don't . Run in 3-2 and 3-3 and yet you will see how long it takes an average run . Not even talking about non aps squad with a lot of squishies who will fall like flies metting emperor or worse Armageddon .
Yet TT2-X and 3-1 are piece of cake b:bye0 -
Hmmm I seen those wc shouts on Sanc too... but imo.. seriously? lol
I would actually understand of you're looking for a sage veno with level 11 soul degen in TT.. or BH metal, whatever, if you can't find an archer.
But nirvana... Sure, level 11 amp is great, but I doubt it makes that much of a difference. o.o
Or maybe it's a new way to separate lazymancers from the actually good ones haha
Can't say I had been ditched for a sage amp veno, I'd guess that skill runs for 15milish on my server and that's cash I'm not gonna spend yet
And pff, let them be picky. Both sage and demon veno got their pretty epic skills, so their loss xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I asked a BM who was advertising in world chat for a "sage veno only" for his fb why he wanted only a sage veno? and his anser was "the only good veno is a sage veno, demon veno = fail veno" ....didn't know whether to laugh or get angry lol
It's obvious from the replies that at least my fellow veno's know that both sides have their own advantages i just wish the other classes wouldn't be so predjudiced
I don't regret goin demon at all i love my 10.6 m/per sec speed, demon bramble, demon lending hand etc. hopefully the "sage amp only" is just a fad and i won't have to keep defending my choice every time someone asks why i went demon instead of sage lol
b:victory
I think in the end, it comes down to skill and playstyle. Not so much Demon or Sage.
Even with my Sin, I can move through a TT, Lunar, Nirvana or FC with ease, and it's not because of my aps or my gear as much as it is my knowledge and understanding the mobs there.0 -
It's not a few seconds. Have you even run this instance much?
Do you kill the adds in the first room, if not, and if so: why? Do you run from the boss that 1 shots most people? -If so or if not; why? 5% is a significant difference that can translate into much more. High aps squads are favored because they can avoid time killing events.
I do run Nirv a lot. Even without sage amp or amp at all we never had to kill in the adds in the first room lol. Same for the third room foxes and whatsoever, why? Its called r9 Sin. I dont care about sage amp or demon amp, its no real diff. b:chuckle
Ops, wrong char
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »Always been preference between sage and demon when it comes to PVE and instance .
Sage got :
-Amplify 30% more damage .
-Soul Degen reduce Max HP by 20% .
-Ironwood that always works .
Amplify is pretty good balanced between both culti . Not the case for the 2 others :
-Demon soul degen reduce evasion o.o
-Ironwood never or barely works .
Demon actually got Demon Nova which is completly awesome (curse still works on boss that can be amplify) .
Demon summer sprint ( yes teach me how to purify when you are stunned/slept i'm still trying to figure out ) .
When it comes to PVP and TW the only things i like in sage veno is the aoe purge . But i wouldn't trade my demon culti for the sage one . Then it's all about people preference .
OM FG! Not another debate over skills. You're ignoring Demon's great skills and just comparing based on where Sage is strong. Nearly everyone else here already knows how balanced they are.0 -
OM FG! Not another debate over skills. You're ignoring Demon's great skills and just comparing based on where Sage is strong. Nearly everyone else here already knows how balanced they are.
You just woke up ? Someone else using your account to post ? you posted 2 replies after i posted this and yet you quote me just now ? I'm Demon, hello world... so basicly i DO know my demon skills . SAGE got strong debuff PVE wise, yikes once again i'm DEMON .
Yet, i do know where my demon skills lack . Not like everyone else it seems b:sweat
Edit : LOL you even asked if Demon Nova works on nirvana bosses . Isn't ironical that i was the one replying to that post ? Guess there is some double personality people using that forum... kinda scary0 -
Kuru, why are you so fail? Get your lvl79 skills and if you already have them, use them. You have 3 chances to break approximately every 20 seconds. I rarely use all three break skills and don't get at least one break. It's usually one; or if I don't get a break from this set of tries, I get one next set of tries.
Start a new break set every time you go to fox to use Amp. Fox -> amp -> Fox-Myriad -> Human -> Human-Myriad -> Demon Ironwood.
After that, you can use Blazing Scarab -> Noxious Gas -> Lucky scarab to recharge chi, then Demon ironwood again. Then you rotate chi gaining skills until the 26 seconds of amp are over, and start again. I guarantee you'll get at least one break every 20 seconds. That's 9 seconds of break. the reason people are requesting venos less and less is simply because most of you here are fail venos. That is all.
Trust me, it's pr0. At least every other set of tries for a break you'll get one. That should be your regular PvE rotation. Then again, on PvE servers, apparently they can't even kill bosses without squad wipes, so...
Get your 79 skills. Get your lvl11 amp. Know your required role. It's like a BM. BMs are expected to max out DG asap. Wiz is expected to max out BIDS asap. Venos however refuse to get 79 skills. *Shrug*, what do you expect the server to do? Hold your hand and tell you how to do your class?Valhalla disband. That is all \o/
"The thing about winners is... they get to write the history books, and they get to analyze everything from high atop their winner's perch.
Doesn't matter what the circumstances are." -- Burnout, Harshlands, Wizard.0 -
veno's 79 skills eat lots of mana so there for i use them usually when the boss really really has to die fast...
sage or demon veno both are awesome... but i think matter if veno is pro more then anythingb:chuckleb:laugh0 -
Kuru, why are you so fail? ... blah blah blah ... Get your 79 skills. Get your lvl11 amp. Know your required role. It's like a BM. BMs are expected to max out DG asap. Wiz is expected to max out BIDS asap. Venos however refuse to get 79 skills. *Shrug*, what do you expect the server to do? Hold your hand and tell you how to do your class?
b:laugh Look who show up . I'll be pr0 like you until i break my O key and use blazing scarab and lucky scarab to "recharge" chi ... oh wait wait wait b:kiss Ty my Zeal for the chi .
b:cry I are so fail to never use blazing scarab, not even to recharge chi .Thank you so much i'll try to be pr0 now0 -
Correct: because spamming genie cloud eruption in PvE makes sense. Ironwood Scarab requires 25 chi, and using both myriads would require 20 chi each, totalling 65 chi in all. Cloud eruption uses 166 energy and 500 stamina to restore 130 chi. It makes complete sense to waste your genie's stamina this way.
You obviously have a pure MAG genie which recharges energy at about 100 per second. In this manner you are able to use cloud eruption every 2 seconds. You've made a very practical, very deep point, obviously backed by experience and I apologise for having called you out on your stupidity. Proceed.
Idiot.Valhalla disband. That is all \o/
"The thing about winners is... they get to write the history books, and they get to analyze everything from high atop their winner's perch.
Doesn't matter what the circumstances are." -- Burnout, Harshlands, Wizard.0 -
Correct: because spamming genie cloud eruption in PvE makes sense. Ironwood Scarab requires 25 chi, and using both myriads would require 20 chi each, totalling 65 chi in all. Cloud eruption uses 166 energy and 500 stamina to restore 130 chi. It makes complete sense to waste your genie's stamina this way.
You obviously have a pure MAG genie which recharges energy at about 100 per second. In this manner you are able to use cloud eruption every 2 seconds. You've made a very practical, very deep point, obviously backed by experience and I apologise for having called you out on your stupidity. Proceed.
Idiot.
Demon crush vigor enough said b:laugh And actually i'm idiot to take time to reply but since i'm super bored while drinking my coffee . I needed some entertainment .
166 energy ? who is "pr0" enough to max cloud ? b:cry you're so pro, i can't handle so much awesomeness .
PURE Magic genie LOL0 -
I believe her post says all that needs to be said, and I'm sure she's convinced that it does as well, thought in an entirely different sense.Valhalla disband. That is all \o/
"The thing about winners is... they get to write the history books, and they get to analyze everything from high atop their winner's perch.
Doesn't matter what the circumstances are." -- Burnout, Harshlands, Wizard.0 -
I mentioned in one of my posts earlier that having the mind/armor break isn't that rare if you spam the Myriads and Ironwood. I always spam them as much as possible. It surely eats my MP but it's not too hard to get coins (for mp food) to keep your MP up. I use Lending Hand and Crush Vigor to gain chi to be able to use Demon Parasitic Nova often as well and I use my genie for Extreme Poison and Tangling Mire (to make up for the no physical defence reduction when myriads/ironwood doesn't proc).
I often hear Venomancers not wanting to use those skills because of the chi and mana cost. Well, for chi I could understand a little (although there are other ways to deal with that problem; genie, pots) but it's kinda silly to cry over the mp and refuse to use those skills because of that. Maybe Venomancers are used not to use mp pots and rely on Nature's Grace/Soul Transfusion but I see that as a bonus rather than something you can effectively rely on to keep you mp up when you're supposed to be spamming your skills to be effective in your squad.
Anyway, as great as demon skills might be the debuff master is the Sage Venomancer. Demons have other nice things to offer to the squads. I think it requires a little more investment to the Demon ones in order to be close to the effectiveness of Sages when it comes to debuffing (parasitic nova, lending hand/crush vigor for chi, genie skills or pet skills to make up for ironwood etc.). Someone mentioned that a Venomancer with Demon Parasitic Nova is rare which is true since there probably only a few people out there who work for it via Cube while the chance to have a Venomancer with Sage Soul Degeneration are higher. Although for nirvana partculary I don't know how useful/wanted it is.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
Desdi dear, those 3 previous posters probably didnt even read anything before thumbs second personality appeared and just came around to troll/flame and pretend to act pro .
b:cute Who cares anyway, i still have coffee left in my cup .0 -
Hmm yeah, there's little excuse not to get myriads and feral, but regarding squad based play, myriads. I want to smack a veno upside the head complaining about their MP using myriads especially given how much mp other magic casters eat thru -- the worst being mystic.
It must be said though that the effectiveness of demon and sage in debuffing is pretty much identical in practice, although the sage version is simply easier. I tend not to include soul degeneration anymore in comparisons because Nirvana bosses are immune to max hp reduction effect, and sage veno's, like archers, tend to try and use soul degen like a child with a new toy in FF without understanding how it reduces mob kill xp/sp. In other cases like TT, rebirth, and on world bosses, it's extremely useful.0 -
This thread is ***** pathetic, fo realz. I think its harder to find a good veno, then a sage one.
Sage =/= pro
Demon =/= fail
only the user can be called pro or fail..........
silly rabbitsOriginally Posted by Curses - Harshlands
Sidenote: hilarious name for a boat: "Yeah Buoy".
b:laughb:laugh0 -
both sage/demon venos have nice books..but 2 be honestly i prefere.. demon bc of veno scrab take down wood resistance..and w howl = 66% + venos skil are most wood atks...XD
demon books i love
: never got in this server but privat server:
- veno scrab
-amfy
-purge
-lucky scrab
-bleazing..scrab
-frost scrab
-nova
-brable guard.
fox form
summer spint
sage books i like:
ironwood
amfy
purge
summer sprit
nova
fox form.
-Im sage veno here bc of the def i get from foxform and my reduse hp= nice on bosses..and purge. vit veno..
-If i had been pure mag w nice refined gear i had go for demon bc of the nice reduse wood defence effects..and speed. xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
SNuppzH lvl 101 Sage Venomancer.0 -
I logged in to clear up this misconception.
None of this changes the difference between Sage vs. Demon Amp. The difference between Sage Amp (30%) and Demon Amp (25%) for a 20 second fight is and always will be 4% (1.3/1.25 = 1.04). It doesn't matter how many extra damage adds or debuffs or whatnot you stack on, the difference is always and only 4%.Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »[LenieClarke - Heavens Tear;14356391]if the boss dies that quickly, i honestly have to ask: what difference does amp do? a handful of seconds this way or that, if the squad puts out that much damage then you can cope for that bit of time.
HF = 100% amp, Subsea or EP = 20-30% amp, Tangling Mire = about 50% less defense or about 30% more damage, and a physical debuff of 30% is about 15-20% more damage. That means if there is a Veno's Amp its doing 30% more on a fully debuffed boss. 30% Amp+ HF would be a 60% increase.... See how this stacks and multiplies quickly?
Actually, lets try to theorize the math. X damage, HF doubles it, so=2x, EP increases it by 20% so 2x times 1.2=2.4x. Tangling Mires physical debuff of about 50% is an actual increase of about 30% damage, so 2.4x times 1.3 = 3.12x, then a plain 30 debuff is another 15% damage or so = 3.588x. So if you have a fully debuffed/amped boss you will be doing about 358.8% damage on it before amp, and amp increase THAT by 30%. That means the 5% difference of sage and demon is much larger than we expected. With amp that's 4.664 times your normal damage. This is theoretical and speculation, but you can see why veno's are wanted and why bosses blow up so fast.
By itself:
Regular damage = 100%
Demon Amp = 100*1.25 = 125%
Sage Amp = 100*1.3 = 130%
130% / 125% = 1.04 = 4% extra damage for Sage Amp
Stack it with HF for 100%:
Regular damage = 100%
HF damage = 200%
HF + Demon Amp = 200*1.25 = 250%
HF + Sage Amp = 200*1.3 = 260%
260% / 250% = 1.04 = 4% extra damage for Sage Amp
Stack it with all those debuffs you've listed:
Stacked damage = 358.8%
Stacked + Demon Amp = 358.8*1.25 = 448.5%
Stacked + Sage Amp = 358.8*1.3 = 466.44%
466.44% / 448.5% = 1.04 = 4% extra damage for Sage Amp
It's a trivial difference. If the boss dies in 20 sec with Sage Amp, it will die in 20.8 sec with Demon Amp. If people are requiring Sage over Demon Amp for a group, they're either obsessed min-maxers who always pick the bigger number without ever thinking about the difference in practice, or they're people who've been mislead by said min-maxers.0 -
I asked a BM who was advertising in world chat for a "sage veno only" for his fb why he wanted only a sage veno? and his anser was "the only good veno is a sage veno, demon veno = fail veno" ....didn't know whether to laugh or get angry lol
I believe part of that mentality comes from the fact that some people only go demon on venos because "they're faster". ...Yes, I actually had a conversation with someone that swore that was the only reason they were going demon. <_< And so have several other people said that to me as well.
I understand that most people do their research on the paths before they choose, but some of us have just heard the "going demon because it's faster" argument too much.
I have no qualms inviting either path to squad later on. Both are helpful and awesome. Although I may just have to holy path less with sage venos. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Demon as of 5/6/12 - On the night where the moon is closer to the earth and brighter than any other night in the past 18 years.~
Slow and steady stays alive~ I'm in no rush, I'm enjoying the journey to end game just as it was ment to be. b:victory
"You sir, are why I love clerics
" < Liba - Heaven's Tear
b:thanks Well thank you Liba<30 -
Thank you so much Solandri. That clears out many things!
I, myself, didn't know about that. I see now that the difference between the Amplifies is even smaller than I thought. Not that I underestimated my Demon Amplify but considering so many people seem to prefer Sage over Demon, I thought there was a bigger difference.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »I believe part of that mentality comes from the fact that some people only go demon on venos because "they're faster". ...Yes, I actually had a conversation with someone that swore that was the only reason they were going demon. <_< And so have several other people said that to me as well.
I understand that most people do their research on the paths before they choose, but some of us have just heard the "going demon because it's faster" argument too much.
I have no qualms inviting either path to squad later on. Both are helpful and awesome. Although I may just have to holy path less with sage venos. b:surrender
Indeed, not too long ago most Venomancers seemed to choose the Demon path. Even in my faction the majority are Demon. Not that I have something against that fact but I simply wanted to give an example.
Just like you implied, most of them don't even know much about the said path to begin with and simply follow the popularity of it. Following what most people follow is not always correct.
In my opinion, if you cannot afford many skills, Sage path is more beneficial to you. Why? Because you can get the awesome Sage Ironwood (not too expensive), better survivability from Fox Form (not expensive either) and a free 50Chi skill (so you can pass sparks easier if needed). Not to mention that Sage Venomous might give you extra chi also. Furthermore, Sage Soul Degeneration alone will be much appreciated (if you don't have Sage Amplify let's say). Throw in the mastery too, it increases your damage.
If you go Demon in the same case, what do you get? Speed from Fox Form (it's surely extremely useful but summer sprint (+ speed gear maybe), holy path and apothecary potions are there anyway so it's not like Demons can get that speed only, it's just cheaper because all you spend is an mp pot (sometimes not even that) perhaps I seem to contradict myself here but I just wanted to point out Demons are not the only ones that can get speed. There's the unreliable Ironwood (although if you spam Ironwood and both Myriad the proc isn't too rare but still I admit it's not too reliable either). Demon Venomous is fantastic for increasing your damage but I see a Sage Ironwood more useful overall. Throw in the mastery too (let's say you get it for a decent price) but without much crit gear, the bonus from the mastery is next to useless (like getting 4% crit or something).
Now if you are able to afford more skills; Demon Parasitic Nova has 30% amp that stacks with Amplify itself. There's Demon Lending Hand and Demon Crush Vigor to help you build chi quickly and throughout the fights (enabled me to use Demon Nova quite often). There's Frost Scarab (along with normal Lucky and Stunning Blow) that gives you a better control over a mob (you can pretty much stunlock the mob and prevent it from hitting you). Of course there's Demon Summer Sprint which has come in very handy to me in Delta, 3-x and other situations (Purify from Sage one is nice but if you're stunned/sleep...you can't purify yourself. Well, Sage and Demon Summer Sprint are used in different situations).
You will also need to learn Tangling Mire and teach your pet Pierce for when your physical debuff doesn't proc and the Barbrian/Cleric (if any) don't debuff themselves. Demon Bramble is awesome for your melee and Demon Purge is quite handy in 2-2/2-3 or Metal when you're the only Venomancer (which is usually the case).
While both paths are most effective when you acquire all/most skills. They way I see it is that for the poor people, Sage has more benefits. This is my opinion though, feel free to object.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
If a boss is not going to die in a short time though, demon amp is better overall:
+30% for 20 sec = +600% dmg over 30 seconds.
+25% for 26 sec = +650% dmg over 30 seconds.
Both demon and sage amp have 30 second cooldowns, so in the long run demon is better for a boss that will require more than 1 amp. Additionally, as a support PvE class, demon is better: Demon ironwood along with the 2 lvl79 Myriads presents a much larger chance of getting a break. Demon ironwood gives a chance to break every 8 seconds, and the two myriads are once every 20 seconds.
So that's 4 chances to break every 20 seconds on average. The chance to completely break physical defense far outclasses a 40% pdef debuff. 40% less physical defense DOES NOT imply 40% increased damage and in fact is probably going to be more like 20% give or take a little. Armour break on the other hand certainly does imply at least 80-90% increased damage for a whole 10 seconds. In reality I've found that I get a break every 20 sec, whether it be phys or magical break.
That said...all this arguing you all are doing: nobody really cares about which veno culti-path is better for PvE support...most nirvana aps squads are new money CSers (Young Money Cash Money Rank 9s) and don't even know that venos can apply an armour/mind break effect since (LOLOL) I'm sure that 80% of you failure venos in here are still thinking that it's not worth the money to get your lvl79 skills. As it is right now, people either want a veno, or they don't. Nobody even bothers to ask for sage or demon veno specifically anymore. It's 2x drops and I've never seen anyone distinguishing between sage and demon. LOL I get into squads and I don't even have lvl11 amp.
If people got more used to seeing venos breaking boss defenses, then they wouldn't even care about amp...they'd want you in squad simply because you can BREAK, and they'd see amp as icing on the cake, and not the main course.
@Desdi:There's the unreliable Ironwood (although if you spam Ironwood and both Myriad the proc isn't too rare but still I admit it's not too reliable either). Demon Venomous is fantastic for increasing your damage
Nah, actually I used to be really excited about demon Venomous myself, and I used to think it would even becomes a major pvp strategy or something...venomous first for debuff, ironwood for break and high damage, then Lucky to stun before they got close, and another venomous.
I pretty much thought that would be a game changer or something...in reality a 30% debuff really doesn't add that much to your damage output on the other player. Especially when your rank8/9 weapon is a pataka and your damage is always jumping all over the place. It makes you feel like the debuff didn't add anything at all.
For Demon Ironwood, I get a proc in PvE usually at least once every 20 seconds. In PvP, it's harder to try for breaks as consistently, so I get them often, but not often enough...I don't know if that wording was precise enough to convey the rate. Tbh, I wouldn't call demon ironwood unreliable anymore.Valhalla disband. That is all \o/
"The thing about winners is... they get to write the history books, and they get to analyze everything from high atop their winner's perch.
Doesn't matter what the circumstances are." -- Burnout, Harshlands, Wizard.0 -
I do PvE only on Venomancer so I don't about PvP xD I wouldn't make Demon Venomous a priority in PvP anyway, I see it mostly for PvE.
In my case I often squad with Venomancers (I just happen to have many friends who are Venomancers) and many of them don't have the demon version of the skill (or are lower level or are sage) so it works good for the general damage output of the squad ( I run a lot of veno-only or almost-veno-only TTs for fun). I also use it in caster Nirvana because my Shaodu Cub has the wood element bash (until my Frogling reaches a higher lvl, but even that pet has toxic mist) and it does increase the damage of the skill when the wood debuff is applied (tested it).
But yeah, I think it's a great skill overall but not as incredible as some people might make it be. Maybe I sounded like that too because of my choice of words. Nevertheless I like it a lot still.[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0 -
You have the right idea, but you're messing up the units calculating it this way. You want average damage amp over time. Cycle time is 31.5 sec (30 sec cooldown + 1.5 sec cast)If a boss is not going to die in a short time though, demon amp is better overall:
+30% for 20 sec = +600% dmg over 30 seconds.
+25% for 26 sec = +650% dmg over 30 seconds.
+30% for 20 sec out of every 31.5 sec = +30% * 20 sec / 31.5 sec = +19.0% average amp
+25% for 26 sec out of every 31.5 sec = +25% * 26 sec / 31.5 sec = +20.6% average amp
However...
That really depends. If there's a second veno along for another Amp (L10, Demon, or Sage), then Sage Amp is better.Both demon and sage amp have 30 second cooldowns, so in the long run demon is better for a boss that will require more than 1 amp.
Also, you're assuming damage is uniform over time. If you can synchronize all big damage adds and hits (sparks, hardest hitting spells, etc) to fall within the first 20 sec, then Sage Amp can be more effective than Demon Amp. In most cases, the bulk of the group's damage would come within the first 10-20 seconds. The extra 6 seconds from Demon Amp gets filled with unsparked, un-HF'ed damage, people using low- or no-damage chi-building skills, etc, so doesn't contribute as much damage. e.g.
0-6 sec : triple sparked, HFed, EPed, Amped = 300%*200%*120%*Amp%
Sage = 936%
Demon = 900%
6-15 sec : triple sparked, Amped = 300%*Amp%
Sage = 390%
Demon = 375%
15-20 sec : Amped
Sage = 130%
Demon = 125%
20-26 sec : Demon Amped
Sage = 100%
Demon = 125%
26 - 31.5 sec : nothing
Sage and Demon = 100%
Add these all up weighted by time and you get:
Sage = ( 6*936% + 9*390% + 5*130% + 11.5*100% ) / 31.5 sec = 347% average
Demon = ( 6*900% + 9*375% + 5*125% + 6*125% + 5.5*100% ) / 31.5 sec = 340% average
So you can see how front-loading damage and synchronizing high-damage effects can leverage that small advantage of Sage Amp to greater effect than the longer duration of Demon Amp.
Neither is "better" than the other. They are just different. Which is better depends on your circumstances and how well the group uses it.
~20% over time is a huge difference in a long boss fight. It can turn a 15 minute fight into a 12 minute fight, which is a pretty big savings. But when you get the fight times down to a few seconds with APS, the time savings is tiny. The 20 sec fight with Sage Amp in my first post, becomes a 26 sec fight with no veno.I pretty much thought that would be a game changer or something...in reality a 30% debuff really doesn't add that much to your damage output on the other player. Especially when your rank8/9 weapon is a pataka and your damage is always jumping all over the place. It makes you feel like the debuff didn't add anything at all.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »However...
That really depends. If there's a second veno along for another Amp (L10, Demon, or Sage), then Sage Amp is better.
Also, you're assuming damage is uniform over time ... In most cases, the bulk of the group's damage would come within the first 10-20 seconds. The extra 6 seconds from Demon Amp gets filled with unsparked, un-HF'ed damage, people using low- or no-damage chi-building skills, etc, so doesn't contribute as much damage. e.g.
Kay :O
Wouldn't have thought of those two points myself, good logic, thanks Valhalla disband. That is all \o/
"The thing about winners is... they get to write the history books, and they get to analyze everything from high atop their winner's perch.
Doesn't matter what the circumstances are." -- Burnout, Harshlands, Wizard.0 -
I don't regret goin demon at all i love my 10.6 m/per sec speed, demon bramble, demon lending hand etc. hopefully the "sage amp only" is just a fad and i won't have to keep defending my choice every time someone asks why i went demon instead of sage lol
Personally, I am going Sage. But, I have a good friend who went Demon, and he kicks butt with it. So I agree not much diff between the two. We are lucky in that regard, just wish everyone else knew it. ;P0 -
Just to clarify. Dont be so desilusional by demon ironwood.
It gots 20% chance which means that if you throw it 100 times only 20 will work so you cant say it NEVER works >.>. Im a demon veno and I love it b:cute. Its extremely risky but once it works NO ONE is safe with their defenses in 0 and my sexy nix bleed b:dirty.0
![http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]](http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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