Is LA a good idea at all?

Shatea - Raging Tide · August 2011

So, I'm lv 16 at the moment, and I've been going pure int so far.

I play on raging, which is a PvE server, so I don't really need to worry about World PvP, but I still feel like int based is limiting what my character can do.
The fox form has a ton of great skills, but with no dex, even in fox form, 70% to hit is low.
So I was wondering, is LA even worth going anymore? I've never reached 70+ so I have no idea about the end game.

Would a 1 str, 1 dex, 3 mag per level build be okay?
Or even, 1str,1dex,3mag even, 1dex,4mag odd? (iirc, pure mag only needs 1 str per 2 levels to wear weapons?)

I just want to be able to use my fox form efficiently, while keeping enough mag to use all the regular veno skills. (Also I'm assuming veno R9 is arcane so... again, no knowledge of 60+ content.)

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide · August 2011

i'm LA atm...the best that i can say that LA for now is more stopgap than longterm for me. Though I feel more confident using my foxform skills in LA (it's true the accuracy rate is higher, and the crits more frequent) i'm not planning to remain here for longterm. It's more of my training wheels for me to become AA/HA.

Some critics here will automatically dismiss the LA veno as the most pathetic of the lot...
It all boils down to your playstyle thoughb:victory

Liba - Heavens Tear · August 2011

I'm a bit of a veno-nut, i have 5 venos....
AA (vit build, main)
AA (pure, lvl 45- very squishy >.<)
LA (lvl 32, very diverse)
HA (lvl 41, fairly nice to play, given up now as i far prefer the feel of a LA veno

)
and melee.... lvl 22, because i just ended up hating it and thinking 'why did i create this char' (thank god she's on an alt xD)
Overall, you'll have base vit of 5 (or 3 if you reset) so all of your LA will need to be sharded with some hp stones

. You won't hit as much as a pure, but if played right, and you stay dedicated, you can easily beat pure venos in DD. My in-game-sister is a LA veno, and she often steals aggro from me, and venos of higher levels. (But when a AA veno crits, there's no getting that aggro back)
Basically, if seeing a crit makes you smile a bit, or gives you a little bit of pride, you like your survivability, and don't mind switching between forms, LA would be a good choice for you- and if you don't like it, you can always get a reset note and go AA, or AA vit (A bit like LA, just with lower p.def and loads of hp

)
hope this helped

x
Edit; forgot to say, that a LA build is 1str 1 dex 3 mag every level. It's advised you don't put on any vit, because most LA armor does give a lot of vit

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · August 2011

LA isnt bad from the start , it is just not *competitive* at endgame (which usually starts from 90+.

It is considered a hybrid between Arcane Spells and Foxform spells. The unique of this build is that it can use Foxfrom better than arcane (cause the physical defence bonus is somewhat higher along with the base dmg) and still do good dmg with arcane spells. the Increased crit rate isnt much (20 Dex = 1% crit , and considering the fact that the normal build for LA is 1 STR 1 DEX 3 MAG every lvl , u gain more Crit% every 20 lvls. Usually Crit % comes right from gear since most Light armor Pieces have + Dex or + Crit% bonuses.)

Also with the use of - Requirement gear , A good Tome with Str and DEX and similar ornaments , the points u would put to DEX and STR can instead go to Magic.\

The problem is that endgame , Light armor just doesnt quite cuts it. Ull find urself being moderately weak to both types pf dmg. if u were heavy u would be more weak to magic but foxform would give plenty of physical defence (even more as a Sage). Arcane , u would be able to tank magic dmg , but being Weak to physical def. More importantly u could cover ur weaknesses with ornaments , still as a LA , u would see u lack something right and left.

Also Light armor doesnt provide the HP refining bonus as heavy does.
As for how Light armor Classes like archers and sins survive ? Archers have range and a bunch of defensive skills to run away and return to end their task. Sins , well , i guess u will have heard already xD

In the End , it still depends on u , its you who plays ur character , and if u find an interesting build , it will work.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · August 2011

Shatea - Raging Tide wrote: »

(Also I'm assuming veno R9 is arcane so... again, no knowledge of 60+ content.)

Yes, R9 for venos is arcane armor and pataka.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · August 2011

It really depends on your aim. Most people don't fully understand the versatility a veno has in that it does substantial physical damage along with magical. However, the brunt of a LA veno's strength won't come until they can get all of the majority (and rest) of -int pieces at level 99/100.

Casting-wise, a LA veno obviously won't do as much magic damage as an AA and pure magic veno. However, a typical r8 veno is going to get well over 10K mag damage even as a HA/AA build, never mind LA and AA.

To me there's a few important issues concerning builds when dealing with LA:

1) Does your play style allow for significant play time in fox form to take advantage of the phys dmg and accuracy of an LA build?

2) Can you afford all the -int pieces (similar to archer/sin build) for LA melee and -channeling stuff for casting?

3) If you aren't powerleveling (if you are, ignore this), can you handle the likelihood that you'll have to find +magic/+dex/+str gear as you level up if you want to use a same level magic wep and LA armour until 80/90+?

Also, r9 is arcane, but unless cashing out, it's generally not something veno's get, and veno is one of the worst classes to go r9 with imo. If you could conjure up enough for, say, the r9 wep and ring, that would be more than sufficient, and you could easily maintain an LA build with that.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · August 2011

An LA veno can still get the mdef of AA armour pieces; but then of course, if you're wearing a LOT of arcane pieces, you have to wonder why you'd bother being LA in the first place.

HA is better for this 'mix' approach.

Personally I'd avoid LA completely. You get 5% more crit, and your foxform bites aren't going to be that much stronger (unless you glitch into non-magic weapons)
Your non-fox melee will be better, true - but you won't be as good as a real light-melee class (since that would be, you know, a sin. And pangu himself fears sins.)

Going *pure* LA, and mostly ignoring magic... well, I've got a tiny veno who's got to about level 20 doing it. It's very very painfully slow at the low levels.
And at the high levels, I don't think you'll be rewarded for it. There's really no reason to not be a different class if you're doing that. (Aside from the fox-glitch. And, again, that's bannable and dubious when compared to a BM and laughable when compared to a sin. We don't get bloodpaint.)

Oh - to edit: LA does have about as much magic as a vit-arcane build (potentially, most people stop putting points into vit earlier than an LA would put them into str/dex) - so it will still attack fairly well. It's just the defence that suffers.

Kariae - Heavens Tear · August 2011

I'm 92 and have been LA from the beginning. i adore it, the armor is way cuter than that nasty ole AA xD
i've never had a problem stating and i deal decent damage. i have quite a bit of hp through shards and refinement and i can survive well enough. i think it really does come down to how you play. even though 20 dex=1 crit, much of the LA adds give dex and crit. i have 12% and i crit pretty often

b:victory

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · August 2011

I tested LA on my Veno. Perhaps I had too much Vit to really do a proper LA build. I ended up not liking it, I didn't have enough magic attack to really solo anything, and without a herc or nix, was unable to do much. On TT1-3 or 2-1 runs (at level 80), I would take my Glaive of Divinity from 100% durability down to 1 durability point left, switch to a backup weapon (a Sakyamuni's Light), and take it from 100% durability do about 30% before the run ended. I would burn perhaps 20 mana pots or foods...

I restatted back to a light vit/AA build at 81, and stopped playing since then (right after I got a nix too). I might be inclined to start playing again if i could afford R8 or R9 for Veno, but I found I like playing LA/HA melee/Archer better. >_> Being a spark slave sucks, and without a Herc it's pretty hard to solo TT and such.

I do have a nubby HA/AA Veno, but I am not sure what I'm doing with it right now. I don't think I can stat for Nirvana HA and R9 weapon at the same time without an expensive tome, so... IDK what I'm going to do.

Shatea - Raging Tide · September 2011

...so much info >.<

Well, I think for now, with this character at least, I'll stick too AA.
I might make a few veno's on an alt account later on, and try out all these different builds. Doubt I'm going to go anywhere with them though... I'm so slow at lvling and what not >_>
(Been playing for over 2 years on and off, and my highest char is a 54 Archer... However, now with a job, I can buy stuff! So I haven't re-rolled a character in a while!)

Tabbycat - Harshlands · September 2011

Hiyah!

I currently have an lvl 90 sage la/aa veno. I know the la/aa is kinda odd but ill explain why in a bit. I made my veno an la build because well first off: im on pvp server and i wanted to survive longer than the normal aa venos. I also decided to become a la veno because i was looking at the ha build and i kinda liked it but i thought it wouldve been too much work for me so i decided to meet in the middle.

On the ha build u lack elemental defense even though as a mag user you already come with a base elemental defense not to mention your phys defense is through the roof. I tried using elemental necks and belts and i didnt get the elemental def. that i wanted.

On a pure AA veno, I got the attk power and elemental defense i wanted but no crits, barely any defense(even if you sharded the heck out of your gear and wore phys defense necks) and no hp.
I know some ppl are going to say that it could be easily remedied if i just got a puzzle cube neck or a warsong, but lets face it not everyone can afford CSing.

So, with this in mind i decided the best thing for me would be an la veno because la meets in the middle. An la build has two sides: the mag and the melee. The "normal" build for an la veno will be 1 dex 1 str and 3 mag leaving vit at 5 for every lvl, but some ppl only get enough mag to use mag weapons so they can use fox form. (Kinda like Ha venos). There are some la venos like me that do both sides of the la build and then there are some that just use the mag side of the build. La gives my veno pretty good attk power, good hp, more defense and overall i just enjoy playing her. I use my veno to solo TTs, bosses, fbs, etc.

Sarrafeline: I noticed you commented that being an la veno gave you a rough time in TTs, saying that both of your weapons durabilities went to 1 and that you had to keep using pots over and over. You also said that it wouldve been easier for you if you had a herc. Well, I know a few la venos on the forums that dont even have hercs that can solo tts. I also dont understand how both your weapons durablities went to 1 with just one tt. It might be because i have a herc and a nix(nix: was a gift from hubby herc: i worked my a** off to get it) that i dont understand, but i didnt get my herc til i was in my 70s. Even then i had my golem out doing solo mode tt 1-1.

JanusZeal: With regard to questions 2 and 3:

2: A veno wouldnt need interval pieces. I understand you think that in order to have good melee damage as an la veno u need interval pieces, but u also have to factor in the fact that you can only use a mag weapon to use fox form. Sure wearing interval pieces will increase ur aps, but in the end it will only increase it a bit. And yes you will need some channeling pieces to increase your channeling time but they are not needed unless ur doing the mag side of la.

3: You dont need to have special gear to give u mag, str and dex in order to use the current lvl weapon. Before lvl 80/90s, I made up for this by using one Demon panther ring and weapons that added dex and mag. Thats all you really need.

Now as much as i enjoyed being la, i was still unsatisfied over the slight elemental defense she had. Thats when i decided to do an la/aa build on her. (heres the link of what my veno currently has if u would like to see it: http://pwcalc.com/c934f5d536b970ae) Ofc ppl are going to comment that she has low attk power, but to tell the truth she has about the same attk power as an vit veno. Heres how i would build my vit veno if i had one: http://pwcalc.com/da42cc9ab0f2d413.

I know it might not look like much now, but when she gets to the 100s and wears tt99 her attk power will increase as well as her hp, crit rate and just about everything else.
For example: http://pwcalc.com/fe40a43528825438
That is my current plan for my la/aa veno. I luv the build and sure it might look expensive but thats why im saving up now. I plan on running tt til i know how to do it in my sleep and grinding all month long while 2x drops/exp/spirit is going on.

But like everyone said, it depends on how you play your veno and what your likes are. But the best advice i can give is do what you want to do and dont let anyone tell you what your doing is wrong. I cant tell how many times i had high lvls on my server tell me i was a fail for being an la veno. I just ignored them though lol.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Tabbycat - Harshlands wrote: »

JanusZeal: With regard to questions 2 and 3:

2: A veno wouldnt need interval pieces. I understand you think that in order to have good melee damage as an la veno u need interval pieces, but u also have to factor in the fact that you can only use a mag weapon to use fox form. Sure wearing interval pieces will increase ur aps, but in the end it will only increase it a bit. And yes you will need some channeling pieces to increase your channeling time but they are not needed unless ur doing the mag side of la.

A veno to try and maximize their physical damage would need interval pieces.

I will post my 2nd veno's build again:

http://pwcalc.com/bc477fc3e1940374

And note that this veno has 2.5 APS with wind shield and a phys attack that, with the same A/R, outdamages my archer with +10 TT100 fists and blazing arrow+SOT buff. Obviously using a magic weapon is a must, and if you look at the weapon, the physical damage is pretty damn high as well as the magic damage, and hitting at 2.5 attacks per second fox form w/wind shield.. by "a bit", that's an extra 1000-2500 dmg per second on a [?] Nirvana boss. You have sorely underestimated the damage potential of a LA veno with -int gear, and yes, with a magic weapon. I will be switching my first veno (101 HA/AA sage) to LA and getting another set of ornaments for her, because the build is just that awesome.

The rest of your post, btw, is pretty informative, and I can't disagree at all.

thumbs · September 2011

You wanna ignore JanusZeal as they promote fail builds and advice being basically here to troll.

A veno to try and maximize their physical damage would need interval pieces.

Interval works different than channeling. The more -int you get: the more effective it becomes. Venos are limited to a pathetic amount of -int. If you want -int: roll an appropriate class.

2.5 APS with wind shield

You almost never see people using Wind Shield for a reason.

And note that this veno has 2.5 APS with wind shield and a phys attack that, with the same A/R, outdamages my archer with +10 TT100 fists and blazing arrow+SOT buff.

Janus leaves out here that archers use ranged weapons with damage based on dex, while fist dmg is based on STR. They're comparing one fail build to another. I think most of us know now that Archer dmg with fists is pathetic.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2011

thumbs wrote: »

You wanna ignore JanusZeal as they promote fail builds and advice being basically here to troll.

Interval works different than channeling. The more -int you get: the more effective it becomes. Venos are limited to a pathetic amount of -int. If you want -int: roll an appropriate class.

You almost never see people using Wind Shield for a reason.

Janus leaves out here that archers use ranged weapons with damage based on dex, while fist dmg is based on STR. They're comparing one fail build to another. I think most of us know now that Archer dmg with fists is pathetic.

1) 2.5 aps is not "pathetic" especially given the extremely high physical attack a veno can have compared to every other caster, added on their masteries and spark promotes this type of damage.

2) Few veno's use APS builds because it's extremely expensive, particularly for the tome. Wind shield = more attacks, nearly spammable, plus reduced damage. You obviously don't use it because you are a pure arcane caster. Duh? I'm waiting for your "reason".

3) I have a 100 archer and I can tell you their damage is anything but "pathetic". In fact, I find my archer stealing aggro from most sins who still use r8 weapons and almost every BM I come across. My archer's damage is comparable to my BM's with the same gear, many idiots like tweakz underestimate the bonus of having blazing arrow when using fists. It actually takes having an archer with endgame fists to understand they are not only viable, but they ****ing hurt. I just finished a 99 key Nirvana with my wife and finished maybe 5 mins behind my sin (+10 TT100 fists versus +10 stage 1 Nirvana daggers) with only a veno+herc, BM, and archer doing damage.

Bottom line is, those who actually know how to play and post in pretty much every subforum give a "thumbs" down (pun intended) to tweakz' posts because he rarely posts from experience, he posts from some sort of religious viewpoint without any kind of backing behind his stupidity. And when he gets challenged on this religious mindset, he hilariously goes on a rampage making personal attacks still never achieving what his posts are criticized for. b:cute

Tabbycat - Harshlands · September 2011

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

A veno to try and maximize their physical damage would need interval pieces.

I will post my 2nd veno's build again:

http://pwcalc.com/bc477fc3e1940374

And note that this veno has 2.5 APS with wind shield and a phys attack that, with the same A/R, outdamages my archer with +10 TT100 fists and blazing arrow+SOT buff. Obviously using a magic weapon is a must, and if you look at the weapon, the physical damage is pretty damn high as well as the magic damage, and hitting at 2.5 attacks per second fox form w/wind shield.. by "a bit", that's an extra 1000-2500 dmg per second on a [?] Nirvana boss. You have sorely underestimated the damage potential of a LA veno with -int gear, and yes, with a magic weapon. I will be switching my first veno (101 HA/AA sage) to LA and getting another set of ornaments for her, because the build is just that awesome.

Ah i see your veno is doing the melee side of the la very nice. ^^

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · September 2011

thumbs wrote: »

You wanna ignore JanusZeal as they promote fail builds and advice being basically here to troll.

From the very first post i know you from to this one, i have never seen -you- give any real advice.

b:bye

thumbs · September 2011

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1) 2.5 aps is not "pathetic" especially given the extremely high physical attack a veno can have compared to every other caster, added on their masteries and spark promotes this type of damage.

-idiot. If you want to play melee; roll a melee class. -duh

3) I have a 100 archer and I can tell you their damage is anything but "pathetic". In fact, I find my archer stealing aggro from most sins who still use r8 weapons and almost every BM I come across. My archer's damage is comparable to my BM's with the same gear, many idiots like tweakz underestimate the bonus of having blazing arrow when using fists. It actually takes having an archer with endgame fists to understand they are not only viable, but they ****ing hurt. I just finished a 99 key Nirvana with my wife and finished maybe 5 mins behind my sin (+10 TT100 fists versus +10 stage 1 Nirvana daggers) with only a veno+herc, BM, and archer doing damage.

You can out dd some non specific assassin with your claws? -Bloody impressive! b:laugh

Kaitica - Heavens Tear · September 2011

thumbs wrote: »

You almost never see people using Wind Shield for a reason.

Why? Is it because it overwrites demon spark attack speed increase? WHICH VENOS DO NOT HAVE -.-''

Demon Eruption Veno = 700% magic attack 650% physical attack
Sage Eruption Veno = 900% magic attack 500% physical attack

Demon gets 26 second 25% amp + 150% melee mastery
Sage gets 20 second 30% amp + 200% melee mastery

Obviously this class is meant to do some beating.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary · September 2011

thumbs wrote: »

-idiot. If you want to play melee; roll a melee class. -duh

Ok so, foxform should be removed then ? cause obviously... yeah, were not melee-classy enough ?
get off it

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2011

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok so, foxform should be removed then ? cause obviously... yeah, were not melee-classy enough ?
get off it

Hilariously, the veno's winning Celestial Tigers week in and out on HT are the melee veno's -- if only tweakz would cast his way to victory. tweakz posts have been so discredited all that's left for him is to troll the forums. b:cute Unfortunately, the repetitive nature of his trolls is sinking in entertainment value faster than the titanic. b:surrender

tweakz · September 2011

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hilariously, the veno's winning Celestial Tigers week in and out on HT are the melee veno's -- if only tweakz would cast his way to victory. tweakz posts have been so discredited all that's left for him is to troll the forums. b:cute Unfortunately, the repetitive nature of his trolls is sinking in entertainment value faster than the titanic. b:surrender

What a dumb butt. Should I also give just a single example of where a caster veno out performs melee? Go back to hooking up your lonely butt in wc.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · September 2011

tweakz wrote: »

What a dumb butt. Should I also give just a single example of where a caster veno out performs melee? Go back to hooking up your lonely butt in wc.

You could but what would that prove? I'm not the one discounting other builds here based upon my own religious-like ignorance of a pixel character, followed by throwing kiddy forum tantrums because others discount your bashing opinions of other people's preferences without any logical or statistical basis.

Someone who knows how to play a veno knows their strengths and weaknesses and makes a build centred around what makes them more plausible to a squad and personally having fun. If that's having two sets of rings, two sets of gear, a Beamhoof Slicer with a garnet+sapphire, so be it. Being that you have merely a caster veno you've never been in any position to judge the viability of HA, HA/AA, or LA, as is obvious by your remarks surrounding them, especially around other people who actually play these builds, but that sure doesn't stop you. Stick to trolling pls.

Is LA a good idea at all?

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