Decides should archers get them?

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · August 2011

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

You've had time to build up your k/d, whereas I started a server that was spammed with nothing but sins that gank ever since I was lvl 30.. I'd like to see you make a toon here on this server as an archer, go perma white named from lvl 30, and get a better k/d. Not like it'll ever happen, but judging k/d from server to server is pretty stupid.

Last time I checked archo is a pve server... that alone pretty much void your "i been ganked by sins since level 30" excuse. We all got our problems... so stop making freaking excuses for your short-comings. Archer of my generation gets one shotted by nixes... and we have no pack gear and ff/bh to level up.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

I've had wizzes blink right into melee against me. Do I stay there long? No. I'm sorry, but when you're fighting rank 9 wizards with 90+ defense level, you're not going to 1 shot them.

So... a wiz blink to you... and you don't stay there long. Doesn't that mean you as an archer can create distance when the other guy close distance... more or less like what i said that an archer should be able to create distance when a robe close distance?

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

Same goes for any other stupid example you set forth. Archers aren't really the kinda class that 1 shots anybody unless the other person is undergeared.

An r9 wizard can seal me and nuke me for 10k before I can even react... you think he is going to need to blink toward me? The only robe who actually need to close distance are the **** ones... where distance or not... won't matter.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

I'm curious. Are you talking real PvP or just duels? lol.

I have a higher k/d and more kills on the rankings... maybe you can use your brain and figure that one out.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · September 2011

A high K/D doesn't say all that much about actual PVP skill. This is pretty clear if you see that the player with the highest K/D ratio of 26.4 is a level 87 archer on Lost City lol. Do you really think he is that much better than you?

If you PK against equal geared opponents frequently you will likely have a lower K/D ratio than someone who just engages in fights where they are at a clear advantage. TW participation also skews K/D heavily.

Furthermore, the kill/death counters never reset and can include data that is years old. For most older players it's not really representative of their current ratio.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · September 2011

Its a rare scenario that this would eventually get a kill.

You cant use skills with fist/claw(Such as stun).

If a melee person such as Bm/Sin/Barb get on your face.. they can stun you and they will most likely have more pdef/damage/atack speed/hp/disables.

If a mage gets on your face.. they can still seal you and blink away.. which makes u have to use your bow again? <<

If a Cleric gets on your face.. this means you were sleep/lv 100 skill... This either will go in the ep trying to 1 shot you or running away. Either way.. you rarely bypass them if they put plume shell on.

If a Psy.. Well Gl

If a Veno.. Stuns + phoenix... i really doubt you outdamage the veno fast enough.

If an Archer.. Well maybe he will get his out too? but most likely.. the archer will try to use metals or kite to gain distance.. nothing you can do without stuns?

If you TRIPLE SPARK at any of the classes.. They either have enough time to run cause unless their aim low.. (you used 4 sparks..) or They are ****...

In conclusion.. using a weapon that gives you no way.. to stun the person n keep them there while dealing damage.. will not give any advantage but disadvantage.

I had like to see a rank9 archer fist a rank8 archer with a bow(2-3 Squads hiding in the bush).. that seems fair in a Fleuri scenario.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

A high K/D doesn't say all that much about actual PVP skill. This is pretty clear if you see that the player with the highest K/D ratio of 26.4 is a level 87 archer on Lost City lol. Do you really think he is that much better than you?

If you PK against equal geared opponents frequently you will likely have a lower K/D ratio than someone who just engages in fights where they are at a clear advantage. TW participation also skews K/D heavily.

Furthermore, the kill/death counters never reset and can include data that is years old. For most older players it's not really representative of their current ratio.

That is fairly real.. I mean I know most of those people in the server that got kills from lv 30s n the ones that actually grinded 90s+.

I enjoyed passing time in 1st map killing people around then going west, hell, hidden, wq 29.

But.. its also obvious that people that actually had decent gear around 1 or 2 years ago(farm/cashshop).. had experience more pk than what any of the new people had now a days. I mean pk.. is all about 5-10 mins now? while before it used to be 30mins maybe even an hour or more. Pk involving 2-5 guilds in the mix and having massive aoe btw allies..

I dislike kioyshi because he thinks he is the best.. but i do agree that he has more experience in Pk than alot of the people that spent here making scenarios of A + B reaction to -C.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

You've had time to build up your k/d, whereas I started a server that was spammed with nothing but sins that gank ever since I was lvl 30.. I'd like to see you make a toon here on this server as an archer, go perma white named from lvl 30, and get a better k/d. Not like it'll ever happen, but judging k/d from server to server is pretty stupid.

I've had wizzes blink right into melee against me. Do I stay there long? No. I'm sorry, but when you're fighting rank 9 wizards with 90+ defense level, you're not going to 1 shot them.

Same goes for any other stupid example you set forth. Archers aren't really the kinda class that 1 shots anybody unless the other person is undergeared.

I'm curious. Are you talking real PvP or just duels? lol.

So the rank9 with 90+ defense level got in your face.. and you plan to atack with your claw +3? maybe +10 if your a believer/farmer.

Enjoy dealing 3 digits while the mage is sleeping + casting ice dragon in your face.

All you gotta do is.. click on the hotkey for fly.. drop from air to what you think its max.. stop n stun/aimlow the wiz at max range.. he wont be available to atack you from max range and his blink will be in cooldown to get away.. then follow up with stun. (all this hoping your not rocking a +3 rank8 bow like 90% of the server)

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · September 2011

I'm not doubting his skill or gear because I have no knowledge either way. I just strongly disagree with his using K/D as an absolute measure of skill.

I'm fairly sure I would be able to beat that level 87 archer in the top spot.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · September 2011

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not doubting his skill or gear because I have no knowledge either way. I just strongly disagree with his using K/D as an absolute measure of skill.

I'm fairly sure I would be able to beat that level 87 archer in the top spot.

I understand the K/D ratio.. I do believe that people that have play this game .. for over 2 years and have less than 1k-2k kills.. shouldn't be talking about pvp though.

I mean.. who comes up with topics as Mana drain, Using claws, Using eagleon, hh99 beats rank9, Etc.. You look at their amount of kills and its lower than the amounts of mobs you can kill in fb 29. (I know pvp ranking is broken and probably wont be fix.. still though lul)

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · September 2011

There are two psychics both named Kanjou that are both 105 and both are in Sanctuary and have the exact same Kill/Death ratio.

The information on that page is clearly accurate and meaningful.

Zhadi - Archosaur · September 2011

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Last time I checked archo is a pve server... that alone pretty much void your "i been ganked by sins since level 30" excuse. We all got our problems... so stop making freaking excuses for your short-comings. Archer of my generation gets one shotted by nixes... and we have no pack gear and ff/bh to level up.

I forgot you can't PK on a PvE server...

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So... a wiz blink to you... and you don't stay there long. Doesn't that mean you as an archer can create distance when the other guy close distance... more or less like what i said that an archer should be able to create distance when a robe close distance?

Point is they got to me in melee range for a bit and i rushed away. You had been arguing earlier how if any class chooses to fight you melee, theyre fkd, and now you're not arguing that anymore, now you're saying that an archer should create distance when a robe closes distance. make up your mind.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

An r9 wizard can seal me and nuke me for 10k before I can even react... you think he is going to need to blink toward me? The only robe who actually need to close distance are the **** ones... where distance or not... won't matter.

It's not my fault you get 1 shot and rank 9 wizards don't need to put some effort at fighting you. They do with me.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have a higher k/d and more kills on the rankings... maybe you can use your brain and figure that one out.

k/d means nothing, bro.
and more kills... maybe you're the one that should use your brain.
you're comparing the oldest server with the newest one, not to mention i rarely TW anymore.

Zhadi - Archosaur · September 2011

KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »

So the rank9 with 90+ defense level got in your face.. and you plan to atack with your claw +3? maybe +10 if your a believer/farmer.

Enjoy dealing 3 digits while the mage is sleeping + casting ice dragon in your face.

All you gotta do is.. click on the hotkey for fly.. drop from air to what you think its max.. stop n stun/aimlow the wiz at max range.. he wont be available to atack you from max range and his blink will be in cooldown to get away.. then follow up with stun. (all this hoping your not rocking a +3 rank8 bow like 90% of the server)

why are you putting words into my mouth? if you actually read what i posted on all my previous posts on this thread, you'd see i'm against archers whipping out claws or fists in the middle of a pk fight. and i doubt you've ever encountered the situation you're speaking about. a rank 8 +10 bow will only hit a 90+ defense lvl wizard for 350-400 dmg (cleric buffs). good luck even landing the kill when a fully jaded wizard will more than likely have over 10k hp too.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · September 2011

This thread is turning into a tardfest.

Using Deicides is stupid. End of story.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · September 2011

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Using Deicides is stupid. End of story.

That statement is stupid. End of story.

Smobo - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Pesticide kills pests.
Herbicide kills plants.
Homicide means killing people.
Deicide means killing a deity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicide

The weapon is a lot more bad *** when the name means "I kill gods" and not "I'm trying to figure out what to do".

So yes, Kratos is a deicidal maniac. ((Is that the correct grammar on that sentence?))

KedgeSniper - Lost City · September 2011

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

why are you putting words into my mouth? if you actually read what i posted on all my previous posts on this thread, you'd see i'm against archers whipping out claws or fists in the middle of a pk fight. and i doubt you've ever encountered the situation you're speaking about. a rank 8 +10 bow will only hit a 90+ defense lvl wizard for 350-400 dmg (cleric buffs). good luck even landing the kill when a fully jaded wizard will more than likely have over 10k hp too.

Umm maybe i read it wrong.. i though you meant to go claw since he was melee range.

I know what you would deal to a wizard with rank8. I was just mocking how people think fist is actually useful.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · September 2011

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

This thread is turning into a tardfest.

Using Deicides in PvP is almost always stupid. End of story.

I fixed that for you.

Edit: and the situations where using decides might make sense (maybe room 34 against a barb when your other weapon is a green crossbow, or whatever) generally do not involve having any help.

Quilue - Sanctuary · September 2011

If like, a harem of venos continually chain freeze and stun an opponent, then you may whip out the claws. It doesn't matter if the opponent is R9 jades +12, it'll just be delicious clawing all around.

b:dirty

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

a rank 8 +10 bow will only hit a 90+ defense lvl wizard for 350-400 dmg (cleric buffs). good luck even landing the kill when a fully jaded wizard will more than likely have over 10k hp too.

An archer with +10 r8 is ****. and hes fighting against a 90+ def level wiz... which can only be full r9... more then likely with +12 r9 weapon and sporting close to 100 attack levels. lets face it... doesn't matter if the wizard blink or not... the archer is ****ED. And I am willing to bet the said wizard won't blink... a gush is more then enough to killed the said archer. There isn't even going to be a fight.... so i am not sure why you even bring up this example.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

k/d means nothing, bro.
and more kills... maybe you're the one that should use your brain.
you're comparing the oldest server with the newest one, not to mention i rarely TW anymore.

And hence i didn't start off comparing overall kills. personally... even if you have over 10k kills... but if you had to die twice to make each of those kills (.5 k/d)... that still makes you ****. i am comparing the overall effective of said kills. dying once to make two kills... vs. dying once to make three kills.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not doubting his skill or gear because I have no knowledge either way. I just strongly disagree with his using K/D as an absolute measure of skill.

I'm fairly sure I would be able to beat that level 87 archer in the top spot.

Considering its a bit hard for me to farm any kills on a pve server. anyone who goes white name is going to at least some form of decent gear. pve rankings if going to be more accurate of pvp rankings.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

Point is they got to me in melee range for a bit and i rushed away. You had been arguing earlier how if any class chooses to fight you melee, theyre fkd, and now you're not arguing that anymore, now you're saying that an archer should create distance when a robe closes distance. make up your mind.

I am saying that no class outside of wizard for robes should be able to get into melee range in the first place. cleric are not likely to walk into range after sleeping you. only robes that get in to range are the ones that i LET in to range... and yes... if i can't **** them over i won't let then in.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

It's not my fault you get 1 shot and rank 9 wizards don't need to put some effort at fighting you. They do with me.

really... i guess you must be +12 r9 with full jades then... or is archo too new to have +12 r9 dot wizards?

Zhadi - Archosaur · September 2011

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

An archer with +10 r8 is ****. and hes fighting against a 90+ def level wiz... which can only be full r9... more then likely with +12 r9 weapon and sporting close to 100 attack levels. lets face it... doesn't matter if the wizard blink or not... the archer is ****ED. And I am willing to bet the said wizard won't blink... a gush is more then enough to killed the said archer. There isn't even going to be a fight.... so i am not sure why you even bring up this example.

You're putting words into my mouth. I only said what a r8 +10 would hit a 90+ def lvl wiz.
And no, a gush is not necessarily enough to kill a rank 8 +10 archer. You're judging what gear they have based on the weapon? That makes no sense. Hell, we have archers who don't necessarily farm up fast enough to get full r9, so they get piece by piece and they leave the weapon for last. One such archer has like 60-70 def lvl, I forgot. A gush would definitely not be enough to 1 shot. I have enough hp so that a crit from a r9 +12 wiz will only tick me unless its BIDS or BT.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And hence i didn't start off comparing overall kills. personally... even if you have over 10k kills... but if you had to die twice to make each of those kills (.5 k/d)... that still makes you ****. i am comparing the overall effective of said kills. dying once to make two kills... vs. dying once to make three kills.

It's different from server to server. There is a big class diversity on other servers. On Archosaur server there is like nothing but sins who PK, so when you rarely TW, and you PK against nothing but heavily refined rank 9's or sins, your k/d ratio is not gonna be as great as you'd hope.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am saying that no class outside of wizard for robes should be able to get into melee range in the first place. cleric are not likely to walk into range after sleeping you. only robes that get in to range are the ones that i LET in to range... and yes... if i can't **** them over i won't let then in.

Actually, some clerics do walk up to you right after they sleep you. It means you're reduced to 1) running, which gives them more time to DD. or 2) you using metal skills to try to get through their plume shell. I really doubt you go white named often, and your pvp experience comes from just TW based on all your ranting.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

really... i guess you must be +12 r9 with full jades then... or is archo too new to have +12 r9 dot wizards?

i'm not full +12 and i'm not jaded, but if you know how to play your archer, you'll know how to survive almost any class. Maybe not necessarily kill the overgeared people, but they're gonna have to work VERY damn hard to kill you. As for a +12 r9 DoT wizard... lol. Maybe it's just preference but I find a DoT build very fking stupid when you can afford +12. So you want to deal a lot of damage? News Flash: While you're dead, you're dealing 0 damage. Idc how much hp that wiz will have, even a rank 8 +10 bow will own them if the archer knows what he's doing.

hanfknolle · September 2011

Up to you lol

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

You're putting words into my mouth. I only said what a r8 +10 would hit a 90+ def lvl wiz.
And no, a gush is not necessarily enough to kill a rank 8 +10 archer. You're judging what gear they have based on the weapon? That makes no sense. Hell, we have archers who don't necessarily farm up fast enough to get full r9, so they get piece by piece and they leave the weapon for last. One such archer has like 60-70 def lvl, I forgot. A gush would definitely not be enough to 1 shot. I have enough hp so that a crit from a r9 +12 wiz will only tick me unless its BIDS or BT.

Thats a surprise since most archers tend to go after weapon first. for any guy to have 60-70 def level... without r9 weapon. he would need 5 pieces of r9 and like 15 jades in armor. you expect me to believe that there is an archer out there that got every piece of r9 EXCEPT weapon... and started to jade his armor instead of getting the weapon? or are we talking about some guy who jaded his nirv armor.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

It's different from server to server. There is a big class diversity on other servers. On Archosaur server there is like nothing but sins who PK, so when you rarely TW, and you PK against nothing but heavily refined rank 9's or sins, your k/d ratio is not gonna be as great as you'd hope.

there is maybe a dozen full r9 archers on ht... and i can throw a rock and hit a 5aps sin (even if they are stealth) out west. i am even willing to go as far as to say if i go out and aoe a random mob out west... i'll hit a freaking sin.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

Actually, some clerics do walk up to you right after they sleep you. It means you're reduced to 1) running, which gives them more time to DD. or 2) you using metal skills to try to get through their plume shell. I really doubt you go white named often, and your pvp experience comes from just TW based on all your ranting.

I twed maybe 3-4 times in the last 6 months. and finally manage to run down my pk counter from 99 hours last week to 67 hours yesterday.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

i'm not full +12 and i'm not jaded, but if you know how to play your archer, you'll know how to survive almost any class. Maybe not necessarily kill the overgeared people, but they're gonna have to work VERY damn hard to kill you. As for a +12 r9 DoT wizard... lol. Maybe it's just preference but I find a DoT build very fking stupid when you can afford +12. So you want to deal a lot of damage? News Flash: While you're dead, you're dealing 0 damage. Idc how much hp that wiz will have, even a rank 8 +10 bow will own them if the archer knows what he's doing.

not full +12... not jaded. +10 r9 set gives 11-12k hp at best.... which is still a one shot to a dot wizard... especially if he gets off the surprise attack. and last time i check... r8 bow doesn't purge... its an uphill battle when fighting an wiz. the odds just aren't on your side when its going to take you 5-8 hits to kill while the other side can 1 hit you. to be honest... i am not even sure if my +12 r8 twin gem bow can kill the current +12 r9 wiz out there (before he nukes me)... unless i am EXTREMELY lucky. so lets not talk about scenarios that'll only happen once in a blue moon or need tons of supporting characters.

Quilue - Sanctuary · September 2011

Well I wouldn't shard DoT on a R9 wiz, but even just with pdef orns and full buffs, that wiz can still be looking at ~20k pdef.

Zhadi - Archosaur · September 2011

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thats a surprise since most archers tend to go after weapon first. for any guy to have 60-70 def level... without r9 weapon. he would need 5 pieces of r9 and like 15 jades in armor. you expect me to believe that there is an archer out there that got every piece of r9 EXCEPT weapon... and started to jade his armor instead of getting the weapon? or are we talking about some guy who jaded his nirv armor.

Ask AgentPotato. He comes here quite often. He, along with quite a few others, went for armor before weapon. While most others that did that already have the weapon as well, he hasn't. He still uses his Lunar Nirvana bow along with rank 9 jaded gear until he has enough for r9 bow. While he doesn't kill as fast, he definitely outperforms every archer that goes for bow first.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

there is maybe a dozen full r9 archers on ht... and i can throw a rock and hit a 5aps sin (even if they are stealth) out west. i am even willing to go as far as to say if i go out and aoe a random mob out west... i'll hit a freaking sin.

I've played HT. Yes, there are lots of sin PKers. What you're not understanding is that that's how it's been since the start of the server on Archosaur, whereas HT had a long time without the massive sin population. k/d ratio then wasn't as hard to maintain as it is now.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

not full +12... not jaded. +10 r9 set gives 11-12k hp at best.... which is still a one shot to a dot wizard... especially if he gets off the surprise attack. and last time i check... r8 bow doesn't purge... its an uphill battle when fighting an wiz. the odds just aren't on your side when its going to take you 5-8 hits to kill while the other side can 1 hit you. to be honest... i am not even sure if my +12 r8 twin gem bow can kill the current +12 r9 wiz out there (before he nukes me)... unless i am EXTREMELY lucky. so lets not talk about scenarios that'll only happen once in a blue moon or need tons of supporting characters.

It doesn't. You forget the game has things like genies and apothecary. If used and timed correctly, you can definitely take out a r9 +12 DoT wiz with a rank 8 +10. No matter how much apoth and how amazing ur genie is, you'll never take out a jaded wiz.. It was just an example to show you why I think DoT sharding on wizzes is stupid.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · September 2011

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

Ask AgentPotato. He comes here quite often. He, along with quite a few others, went for armor before weapon. While most others that did that already have the weapon as well, he hasn't. He still uses his Lunar Nirvana bow along with rank 9 jaded gear until he has enough for r9 bow. While he doesn't kill as fast, he definitely outperforms every archer that goes for bow first.

for every 1 potato... there is a dozen people who just went for the whole set... or bow first. I am not trying to point out the only exception from norm. and i am pretty sure you won't doubt me when i say i can easily name a dozen or so archer who either went for the bow first... or went for the bow and now have a whole set. so overall... its not out of the norm to assume an archer's weapon will be 1. of higher grade then his armor and 2. of higher refine.

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

I've played HT. Yes, there are lots of sin PKers. What you're not understanding is that that's how it's been since the start of the server on Archosaur, whereas HT had a long time without the massive sin population. k/d ratio then wasn't as hard to maintain as it is now.

My k/d ratio actually went up since they introduced sin/genie. I believe it was at the 2.6 range when the rankings first came out... which i attribute to getting 1 shot by nixes. so instead of maintaining my k/d... it actually went up. archers probably got the highest boost in terms of percent defense increase from the utilization of r9 armors from the old days of tt90 (best we can get before bh/genies/sin/ff/whatever).

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

It doesn't. You forget the game has things like genies and apothecary. If used and timed correctly, you can definitely take out a r9 +12 DoT wiz with a rank 8 +10. No matter how much apoth and how amazing ur genie is, you'll never take out a jaded wiz.. It was just an example to show you why I think DoT sharding on wizzes is stupid.

for a r8 archer to kill a r9 wiz... you are assuming that the archer is competent. how about try to assume the r9 wiz has the same level of competency as the archer? with brain cells being equal on both sides... are you still going to assume the archer has a higher chance of winning? like i said before... **** happens once in a blue moon... but lets try to stick on the likely outcome here. and my bet is on the wiz.

Zhadi - Archosaur · September 2011

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

for every 1 potato... there is a dozen people who just went for the whole set... or bow first. I am not trying to point out the only exception from norm. and i am pretty sure you won't doubt me when i say i can easily name a dozen or so archer who either went for the bow first... or went for the bow and now have a whole set. so overall... its not out of the norm to assume an archer's weapon will be 1. of higher grade then his armor and 2. of higher refine.

My k/d ratio actually went up since they introduced sin/genie. I believe it was at the 2.6 range when the rankings first came out... which i attribute to getting 1 shot by nixes. so instead of maintaining my k/d... it actually went up. archers probably got the highest boost in terms of percent defense increase from the utilization of r9 armors from the old days of tt90 (best we can get before bh/genies/sin/ff/whatever).

for a r8 archer to kill a r9 wiz... you are assuming that the archer is competent. how about try to assume the r9 wiz has the same level of competency as the archer? with brain cells being equal on both sides... are you still going to assume the archer has a higher chance of winning? like i said before... **** happens once in a blue moon... but lets try to stick on the likely outcome here. and my bet is on the wiz.

k bro. w/e u say. this is pretty pointless now and i went farther than what i normally do. there's no way for either of us to prove anything since we're on different servers. later.

Sint - Harshlands · September 2011

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

1. I'm sorry, I forgot the cooldown is ONLY 15 minutes. 2. I can stay out of a BM's range for a while, trust me, but for those very tanky ones that require some lucky high end crits, it takes a few times before you kill them.. meanwhile they're on your face.
3. Force of Will + Distance Shrink. If they seriously just stand there while you 5 aps them, they're idiots, and I don't blame you for that.
4. "IF" they're dumb enough to let you 4-5 aps them for that long. Meanwhile, you can't cast those skills while aps'ing so while you're aps'ing you're completely defenseless.
5. I have no idea wtf you just tried to say here. Please explain in more detail.

1. I'm just putting it out there as a posibility in case you do blow your 3 sparks. CE would also work.

2. I generally see wich ones are tanky once my dmg shows up on my screen. And kite accordingly.

3. i OI'd b:surrender I'm convinced it was in fact the best move i could make given the situation. If thy cant blink, stunning blast works too.

4. Idk if you actually play an archer, but all the skills i mentioned can be cast without a bow equipped. And for the dmg, you can switch back to bow for wingspan. So while, indeed, i can not aps WHILE casting shell/WoG/Wingspan/EA, i can aps in between.

5. r8 +10 bow dmg is about 11 - 16k with demon mastery, whereas gorenox vanities +10 give you 3.1 - 3.2k on top of that (same shards, 2xg9) on top of that, fire buff benefit on fists makes more of a difference. ince max speed for a rank 8 bow is 1.05 base, and max speed for gorenox vanities is 5 base, average dmg per second with bow is about (13.5k + fire buff)(1+crit%), whereas gorenox is (15.75k + fire buff)(1+crit%).

Zhadi - Archosaur · September 2011

Sint - Harshlands wrote: »

4. Idk if you actually play an archer, but all the skills i mentioned can be cast without a bow equipped. And for the dmg, you can switch back to bow for wingspan. So while, indeed, i can not aps WHILE casting shell/WoG/Wingspan/EA, i can aps in between.

5. r8 +10 bow dmg is about 11 - 16k with demon mastery, whereas gorenox vanities +10 give you 3.1 - 3.2k on top of that (same shards, 2xg9) on top of that, fire buff benefit on fists makes more of a difference. ince max speed for a rank 8 bow is 1.05 base, and max speed for gorenox vanities is 5 base, average dmg per second with bow is about (13.5k + fire buff)(1+crit%), whereas gorenox is (15.75k + fire buff)(1+crit%).

I know you can cast most of skills you mentioned weaponless, but I meant you can't cast them while attacking. In the end, you won't aps as much as you need to regain any amount of chi if you spend half the time casting your skills.

As for your last point... fist dmg is extremely nerfed for sins and archers in PvP. I find myself hitting almost nothing unless I'm triple sparked, and I really hate to waste my chi to attempt killing with fists unless I'm just doing it for the lol's. I'm talking PvP when both competitors are taking the fight seriously.

Zliss - Lost City · September 2011

if u can make a new character, i'd say bm or assasin, assasin for more dps and bp.

if not use decides/gorenox vanity for frost/hh/nv if possible. maybe u can squads with friends.

but archer are made for using bows, jus me.

Decides should archers get them?

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