Sage/Demon BM
Bellarie - Raging Tide
Posts: 603 Arc User
My BM is currently lvl 62, and I plan to eventually make it my main. However, I'm having trouble deciding whether to turn him Sage or Demon. So I wanted to know the overall pros and cons of the two paths.
Please keep in mind that:
1. I'm not a serious player with endgame fever, so the obsessions like aps and PvP are not my concern.
2. I utilize all four weapon classes, and the skills that go with them.
3. I mainly use Polearm class, as I quite enjoy the skills and I have an affinity for spears and scythes.
4. As stated above, I don't really care about aps, PvP, or being "good enough" for endgame content with random squads.
I checked out the sage and demon versions of BM skills, but I find that I like the effects of most of them. But, I'm still not clear on the actual pros and cons of each path. Also, I don't quite understand the effect of Demon Golden Bell.
Please keep in mind that:
1. I'm not a serious player with endgame fever, so the obsessions like aps and PvP are not my concern.
2. I utilize all four weapon classes, and the skills that go with them.
3. I mainly use Polearm class, as I quite enjoy the skills and I have an affinity for spears and scythes.
4. As stated above, I don't really care about aps, PvP, or being "good enough" for endgame content with random squads.
I checked out the sage and demon versions of BM skills, but I find that I like the effects of most of them. But, I'm still not clear on the actual pros and cons of each path. Also, I don't quite understand the effect of Demon Golden Bell.
Post edited by Bellarie - Raging Tide on
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
Thank you for the links, I tried the search function but I can never seem to find any decent results. b:thanks0 -
lol, all those threads and I'm only more confused, especially now that the CCing glitch is no more. Also doesn't help being a pure PvE BM with no focus on aps or the endgame fever of being "wanted" for random squads, while all of the arguments I see relate to one of those specifics. My fac mates and buddies don't care which path I end up taking, they will squad with me as long as I pull my weight.0
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Bellarie - Raging Tide wrote: »lol, all those threads and I'm only more confused, especially now that the CCing glitch is no more. Also doesn't help being a pure PvE BM with no focus on aps or the endgame fever of being "wanted" for random squads, while all of the arguments I see relate to one of those specifics. My fac mates and buddies don't care which path I end up taking, they will squad with me as long as I pull my weight.
If you want to "pull your weight" then you do want to gear up to late or even end game eventually.
Demon is far better bang for your buck pve farmign wise if only because of the spark.I give up on beign a blademaster. Gonna go wave my tranny **** around and pew pew.0 -
Fresh_Corpse - Sanctuary wrote: »If you want to "pull your weight" then you do want to gear up to late or even end game eventually.
Demon is far better bang for your buck pve farmign wise if only because of the spark.
You missed the point I made about not being a serious obsessive; my buddies and fac mates aren't stricken with the obsessive "OMG we need to finish this instance uber fast asap" mindset, nor do they care if I'm uber geared with the best of the best of the best. Their idea of "pulling my weight" isn't the same one you seem to be conveying to me. We all play just to have fun(The longer an instance takes and the more challenging in is, the more enjoyable, setting aside the annoying time limit) So none of your points really apply for me.
As for farming, both my endgame gear and other stuff, I already have that taken care of with this veno and my boyfriend's sin. And I don't really see why demon spark would make it any better, if I am not worried about aps, dps or how long it takes to kill something. I'm a casual player, yes, but I don't mind taking extra time, and neither do my buddies..
It can't be nearly as bad as fighting a 66 mil HP Ethereal Queen on Chaos difficulty of Star Ocean 4, or a 51 mil HP Yiazmat in Final Fantasy XII. And I actually enjoyed the former. b:chuckle0 -
Sad part is, because my main weapon is a polearm, and because I love aoe effects, I am leaning toward demon for the increased range of the polearm skills, as well as the added aoe effects on some skills.
I guess my issue is, I like the sage effects in the marrows, golden bell, and the masteries, as well as a few other skills, and with my play style, they would work perfectly, so I'm still at an impasse on which to choose. Plus I hear that some pro's of going demon no longer apply with the removal of CCing.
My biggest point in endgame fun will be fighting lengthy hard boss battles(no ridiculously easy speedy runs for me) or masses of mobs that just keep coming and coming(like in Rebirth) And of course, my buddies will be alongside me, and they have aready decided they don't care which path I choose. I don't care about PvP, aps, dps, speed runs and quick kills, easy fights, or random squads. Or in simpler terms, I don't care about being the best of the best of the best, or what everybody else wants me to do. My buddies want me to chose what I prefer, and what I will have the most fun with.
So I'm still looking for a list of actual overall pros and cons from each side, not counting CCing(as it no longer applies)0 -
There aren't much more to it than the effects of level 11 skills and the differences of triple spark. There aren't hidden layers of secrets regarding each cult. What you see is what you get, and you have to chose from that to fit what you like. There are trade offs and they are clearly stated by the skill descriptions (mostly), and only you can decide what's more important to you.
I can list some pros and cons like sage get more chi while demon have longer stun, but there isn't really a point of me doing that because you can see that by looking at the skills.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »There aren't much more to it than the effects of level 11 skills and the differences of triple spark. There aren't hidden layers of secrets regarding each cult. What you see is what you get, and you have to chose from that to fit what you like. There are trade offs and they are clearly stated by the skill descriptions (mostly), and only you can decide what's more important to you.
I can list some pros and cons like sage get more chi while demon have longer stun, but there isn't really a point of me doing that because you can see that by looking at the skills.
Yeah, for the most part, I'm leaning demon for the longer range on polearm skills, and the extra stuns and aoe's. I do so hate Mo Tzu's Taunts though, as it is completely useless for PvE. I just figured I'd as since I haven't really seen any decent list yet, and I wasn't sure of factors like "better survivability against x mob" might be influenced by sage or demon.
Appreciates all of the input, peeps.0 -
Survivability is mostly gear depended. Sage Marrows do give you a bigger boost than demon for the most part, at the cost of reducing the other def more. Essentially, there's a 30% def trade off between the 2 cults. Sage stacks that 30% on top of your 150% gain while demon throw that 30% back into the def you are reducing.
I favor demon because it's more balanced and combined with demon Bell can give you a boost of both def if needed. Going from demon Magic Marrow to sage, I go from 74% reduction to 76%, not really a big deal. But demon gives me the option of throwing up demon Bell with Marrow, so my phy def will remain essentially the same in the duration of 15 seconds. It's a hassle having to keep rebuffing it, but if it helps you survive against strong boss that have both strong magical and physical attacks, it's worth it. It's also a party buff so you can grant your party extra 75% gear def value if needed.0 -
Drake Bash- Demon. 1.5 more seconds stun is a better bonus.
Highland Cleave- Sage. Since this is normally cast when aoe grinding or zhening the demon attack speed bonus is minimial, but the crit increase will benefit in aoe grinding.
Fissure- No clear winner since they both have situational positive.
Heavens Flame- Demon. 9 second HF kicks the **** out of a few thousand more fire dmg over time.
Shadowless Kick - Sage. A 3 meter aoe is relatively useless and with fist's low base dmg the benefit goes to the increased availability for Kick to cancel.
Cyclone Heel- Demon. if the increased attack rate bumps you to another int level. 5 second increase on a 15 second skill that takes half a second to cancel isn't as useful.
Drakes Breath Bash - Demon. 135% Fire damage for no sparks when channel canceled kicks the **** out of sage.
Marrows - Demon. Sage marrows are nice but the huge nerf to the opposite marrow will get you killed, plus with diminished returns there is not a large benefit between the two.
Golden Bell - Either. I know alot of people will say Sage because its larger but for me personally it adds about 350 defense and doesn't change my % pdef reduction whereas when used correctly the 15 seconds of +75% demon bell has huge benefits and can prevent squad wipes.
Roar of the Pride - Demon. 100% success rate (duel a sin and see) and decreased cooldown. Enough said.
Diamond Sutra - Demon. You will not depend on sages 20% chance to recieve more hp, but as a demon skill it becomes spammable for a 10% increase to crit rate.
Glacial Spike - Demon. CC for 100% crit rate for 5 seconds (25 attacks).
Overall - Not one Sage skill stands out but with demon you get 100% crit for 5 seconds, 10% spammable increase to crit rate, 9 second 100% damage amp for the squad, stunlock between two skills, safer marrows, and +1.35 damage modifier in fire damage.
Thats why 90% of BMs go demon and 10% of BMs regret their culti choice.
Posted the above from a previous post. Some things have changed, with the loss of CCing. You no longer would ever use Drake Breath Bash for the 120% fire dmg or can CC Glacial Spike for 100% crit making those almost useless skills, however there still isn't really a sage skill that is better than demon except the sage chi skill, but since pve genies have cloud eruption for 3 times more chi very few people would take the time to stop and use it anways.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »You no longer would ever use Drake Breath Bash for the 120% fire dmg or can CC Glacial Spike for 100% crit making those almost useless skills
I still cast DBB to take down 15-20k HP BM. HF might be a better option once I get level 11 of it. Anyone wana do the math for it?Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Roar of the Pride - Demon. 100% success rate (duel a sin and see) and decreased cooldown. Enough said.
I'm not sure why you brought up dueling a Sin. Demon roar still will fail on Tidal.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
I'm not sure why you brought up dueling a Sin. Demon roar still will fail on Tidal.
Because as low as the chance of lv 10/Sage Roar is to fail... if it fails at a crucial moment it'll really jack your **** up. Demon being 100% reliable (the exception being Tidal'd sins) makes it sooo much better.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »I still cast DBB to take down 15-20k HP BM. HF might be a better option once I get level 11 of it. Anyone wana do the math for it?
Mostly it depends on your opponent's mdef. Not exact numbers but considering DBB only adds 120% of your weapons dmg its not a huge increase of your total dps. HF would double your total damage, which your BM will have 2 weapon modifiers from strength alone (300 strength) as well as any other bonuses like titans barb buff or base buff, ring attack adds, sparked?... all the things that adds up to your total, that doubled by HF would be much better dps output than +120% of only your weapon attack as fire damage. But for 6 seconds vs 15 seconds, I don't know. For 9 second vs 15 second I can almost guarantee HF is better. Not to mention if you are racing a charm tick its more about 10 second time frames.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »I'm not sure why you brought up dueling a Sin. Demon roar still will fail on Tidal.
Well, just pointing out it takes evasion out of the equation. Not to mention axe only BMs missing stuns. Plus a sin can only be Tidaled 2/3 of the time. Plus, 99% of sins are fail anyways and don't bother using it, lol.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
90% of the demon BM rerolled something else...0
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Calvin - Lost City wrote: »90% of the demon BM rerolled something else...
99% of sage bm's rerolled sins.I give up on beign a blademaster. Gonna go wave my tranny **** around and pew pew.0 -
Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »Because as low as the chance of lv 10/Sage Roar is to fail... if it fails at a crucial moment it'll really jack your **** up. Demon being 100% reliable (the exception being Tidal'd sins) makes it sooo much better.
Well that's the case for stunning against every class. Bringing up trying demon Roar against a Sin had the false impression that it will stun 100% of the time through Tidal.0 -
Calvin - Lost City wrote: »90% of the demon BM rerolled something else...Fresh_Corpse - Sanctuary wrote: »99% of sage bm's rerolled sins.
Have helped 3 sage BMs finish culti so they could switch to demon. Never heard of anyone go the other way... Most just reroll a BM and start over, trashing their sage BM.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
I dont have any problems being a sage BM.
Especially cause of the sage spark and if you choose correct genie skills your damage will be twice of the normal.
Yes, some people say sage BM's suck balls, but i havent really done PvP/TW as a Sage BM but i do think it may be a success.
I also noticed that sage BM's are better for aoe'ing than demons. Demons in the other hand are better in stunlocking. Its up to you what you go for.
And who say'd that Demon BM's are better for aps? Sage BM's get 4 base aps with tome aswell, you just need to spend more coins on the gear.
One thing what sage BM's lack for is crit (they already have the DPS from mastery) so if you go sage aps bm, go for TT100 Fist.0 -
Zaradon - Heavens Tear wrote: »I
I also noticed that sage BM's are better for aoe'ing than demons. Demons in the other hand are better in stunlocking. Its up to you what you go for.
Leaving the APS and demon sparking fist craze aside I would still prefer demon because as you said demon is better for stunning. In most parties a bm who knows how to stun contributes a lot to the success of the run. Moreover demon HF allowes you some crazy synergy effects with other characters due to your HF or you could save your squad by pushing golden bell extra pdef when a bosses aoe reaches critical values ..... Sage on the other hand gives higher average dmg and buff power + chi on demand. It is up to you and what you prefer but I think demon also supports party play a bit more than sage.
Btw I really like your attitude of just enjoying the game without falling in this go aps or ****
Idea. I also will roll a BM as my 2nd char because even if the sin might be stronger the BM is definitely more fun and more versatile due to the different weapon paths
greetz harm0wnie0 -
demon0
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