aps veno Question

LA/AA? Unusual. Probably less so with the number of sin alts though.

Let's see.
First off, no we don't get an attack rate boost from spark, though we do get an attack bonus.

Second - glitching claws in foxform is bannable, melee mastery only works in foxform.

Third - you can actually be fairly effective with a magic weapon in fox form, even without lots of attack rate.

And lastly: You'll not be as effective at melee as a pure melee class (though the claw glitch comes close) - but you still get to use ironwood and amp damage. You're pretty much swapping out the occasioanl 'filler' venomous for some normal attacks. I don't think you'll see a truly vast difference.
AND we can't be bloodpainted. Which makes our meleeness a bit risky in the modern environment of "Tank? What is this tank you speak of?" (Leech life helps make up for it, but isn't even in the same country, let alone league)

If you go sage you'll lose demon ironwood (but gain relaible sage), swap the demon venomous bonus for wood mastery which ends up about the same - and yes, sage melee mastery is a nice boost.

The important question: Will you enjoy it? No idea.

You can take your veno aps but the question is, since you already have a sin, why?

Also consider what veno's are useful for. They can do some magic damage, they can do some physical damage, but they are mostly useful for debuffs. You aren't very helpful to a squad in the way veno's can be if you're in human form without any passives (masteries) or buffs (blazing arrow, poison fang) to supplement your damage besides SOT. You can make a viable APS build fox form veno using the HA orns and LA -int gear+robe+tome+nirv legs and a magic sword (if you can find cheap badges, especially of bravery, I'd suggest Beamhoof Slicer, otherwise maybe lunar sword/1st or 2nd cast or hold out for a cheap twilight sceptre for Sinrabansho). R8 pataka isn't bad for fox form DPH but their a/r is lower which is easily offset by any boss with significant hp so for overall DPS the best idea is a magic sword w/garnets which also allows you to amp/soul degen, and myriad, on single targets. You'll also want to pack some magic ornaments and consider a magic weapon with sapphires for the times you will need to do magic casting.

As for gear for things not included in the -int bonuses, go ahead with TT99 LA or Nirvana.

That few hundred makes a huge difference when talking about 2.33 attacks per second, combined with melee mastery.

Here is my 2nd veno's build I've long saved and updated occasionally (given the gear has changed) which borrows from my sin/archer/bm/barb gear (plus 99 LA chest and Beamhoof if I can ever find bravery's for a reasonable price anymore) using a +10 Beamhoof:
http://pwcalc.com/bc477fc3e1940374

With a +10 2 sock WQ (unlikely but let's pretend):
http://pwcalc.com/83269b71121c6a8b

Difference in phys dmg is almost 1,000, magic damage 2,000. If one wanted to add more physical attack they could just do both garnets.

R8 pataka wouldn't be a bad alternative (in this build I had to make the veno level 102 for magic stat allocation):
http://pwcalc.com/147d234ec0cef9cf

Note that the difference in -interval between the pataka and sword is -0.2 int (as in, four -0.05 int or two -0.1 int bonuses) which in the span of, say, a Nirvana or TT boss, means the Beamhoof does the more DPS over that span. Solandri has calculated this himself as well, too lazy to dig up the links. In a short run boss, the R8 would be decent, if you anticipate any boss dying in the span of a Nirvana full 5 APS squad, and it would be quite cost-effective given 2m buys you a two socket wep which you can shard one with two garnets and another with two sapphires.

What people misinterpret about DPS is that the interval between attacks on 1.54 and 2.22 (-0.25 with windshield going to 2.5) is nothing to sneeze at just because the difference in APS is 1.54 and 2.22. This is far from the truth.

A veno debuffing would be for themselves and the squad. The time not spent doing amp/sd or myriad (they could just do an iw->ff->amp->spark->auto combo as well) would be spent sparking and autoattacking.

Why this is ideal for the Beamhoof, for me at least, is that I wouldn't have to switch weapons when I want to magic attack. I'd still have over 10k mattack, can switch out for -channeling if need be. I'd have 17% crit and can leaf dance for 2 more crit.

i know you want to use LA cause you can just switch gears with your sin, but the lack of P.Def in fox form against a full aps sin will get you killed most likely. this is a bit more work, but you have an aps sin to work for you so it shouldn't be tooooo hard.

http://pwcalc.com/cd45b3bf78dbda50

it's comparable to the other builds here in terms of damage but the HA armor gives you more survivability up close. you keep the aps you wanted and you have average attack both magical and physical. the rings here give you more p.attack and stat boosts you'd need ^^ just throwing my ideas into the ring. just don't count out how effective HA armor really is. hope this helps you b:thanks

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yep, HA is viable (I never liked LA orns though) in those regards but you should really choose a different shard for that HA gear. Citrine Gems is a horrible idea, as for veno's it's a better idea for vit stones for HP, and in the very high likelihood of sharing that with a seeker, BM, or barb, obviously they're going to benefit highly from the vit as well over Cit Gems.

What's funny is in terms of phys attack there is pretty much no difference between the Beamhoof LA build I chose and the HA one you chose, the magic attack is much higher on the LA build, and the crit difference is 9-10%. The only real noticeable difference in favour of the HA build there is the phys def, which is 10% more reduction. However, note that just about any veno is going to have an extremely difficult time killing a sin in fox form without bramble hood already on them, once it wears off, if it's a patient sin, the veno is pretty much toast in fox form. That's when the extra magic damage will make all the difference in the world. Note that as far as my veno's concerned my experience in PVP has long been limited to TW and cube, and my sin to duels, a few PK's, and cube.

yeah LA orns aren't that good... but it's for the aps and extra accuracy in fox form for an HA build is always welcome. extra crits are nice, but in the end having the defense of a barb would come in real handy (especially for TWs where you have to get in close for purges). an extra 10% phys attack reduction can make a big difference. but i do agree that vit stones do make a big difference. sadly they are expensive and his original build had cit gems in the gear b:surrender the extra mag damage would help a bunch (magic never misses ) but you forget demon fox skills. demon soul degeneration cuts evasion by 50% giving a veno a good chance to hit a sin with her skills (decrease accuracy, leach, malefic crush, demon spark, etc) and the veno's pet will do a great deal of damage as well (lvl100 nix could easily support her damage). and if the veno purges the sin of BP it prevents them from leaching life from them. ijs a veno is far from defenseless in an up close fight with a sin (purge his triple spark to **** them off )

b:cute venos are just epic like that