Ornaments: Physical vs. Magical
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Sakubatou - Sanctuary
Posts: 4,001 Arc User
The cleric forum posters seem like they need a new argument rather than "vit or pure". Plus, Tweakz needs to +1 his thread count. So...
I thought I'd start a discussion on "Should clerics use physical ornaments or magical ornaments". I know the obvious choice is have both on switch for different situations, but if you had to pick one, what would it be.
Clerics are a squishy class, survival is important to heal the squad and when we are having discussions on how much vitality should you have to survive it seems odd that we don't discuss what gear would be best. Many clerics pick -channeling ornies, but clerics are already a fast channeling class and the difference of -6 or -12% off one second is really more of a placebo than anything else, beyond actual perception. However, the thousands of pdef that can be added to a cleric by a refined belt and neck can go a long way towards survivability. Not to mention, -12% channeling means you can cast a 2 second skill (cast time still remains) 6% quicker but that added pdef can allow you to remove vitality and put in in magic, meaning your heals are unnoticably slower, but stronger and you survive better.
Also, I hear from many endgame clerics that around -30% channeling is the very max you should have or you can't spam skills and end up needing to cast, stop, wait, cast, stop, wait... Meaning that above 30% you actually start losing speed when spamming skills. Your weapon and rings already give 18%, helm another 3% and set bonuses/cape and other equipment puts you up around 30% already. The ornies aren't needed for -channeling and are better served as pdef ornies, allowing you to get in the action and support better.
I thought I'd start a discussion on "Should clerics use physical ornaments or magical ornaments". I know the obvious choice is have both on switch for different situations, but if you had to pick one, what would it be.
Clerics are a squishy class, survival is important to heal the squad and when we are having discussions on how much vitality should you have to survive it seems odd that we don't discuss what gear would be best. Many clerics pick -channeling ornies, but clerics are already a fast channeling class and the difference of -6 or -12% off one second is really more of a placebo than anything else, beyond actual perception. However, the thousands of pdef that can be added to a cleric by a refined belt and neck can go a long way towards survivability. Not to mention, -12% channeling means you can cast a 2 second skill (cast time still remains) 6% quicker but that added pdef can allow you to remove vitality and put in in magic, meaning your heals are unnoticably slower, but stronger and you survive better.
Also, I hear from many endgame clerics that around -30% channeling is the very max you should have or you can't spam skills and end up needing to cast, stop, wait, cast, stop, wait... Meaning that above 30% you actually start losing speed when spamming skills. Your weapon and rings already give 18%, helm another 3% and set bonuses/cape and other equipment puts you up around 30% already. The ornies aren't needed for -channeling and are better served as pdef ornies, allowing you to get in the action and support better.
Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
Post edited by Sakubatou - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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I use physical ornaments. My magic defense is high anyways. I can cancel out 74% of a magic attack from a mob my level. In regards to physical defense, it is one of a cleric's (or any mages) weakest innate points. My pdef as it stands now can cancel out 40% of an attack from a mob my level, Ornaments are the cheapest way for me to augment the weaknesses that are present in my cleric. Also, they have no requirements other than level, which means that I can add a ceratain degree of defense in a particular area without statting points into slots that I deem unnecessary for my cleric. That being said, pdef is the way that I would go. Having channeling on things is nice, but if I have to choose between a magic ornament with channeling, or a pdef one, then I choose the pdef one. Its not even a contest unless the magic one has some truly astounding stats behind it. That's my take on it, and my answer to this thread."Male Player using female toon. Please don't flirt with me."
Need to see the cleric guide for questions, comments, or concerns? Just copy and paste the link.
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I almost always have physical ornaments on.I wear arcane armor which gives enough magic resistance to survive.The -channeling ornaments could be nice if you DD and could use a little channeling boost, but I personally only use them if I aoe grind magic mobs.A little extra mag def won't hurt there b:pleased0
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My pdef isn't really the greatest so definitely a physical ornament for meb:surrender . I got about 24% channeling from ring, wep and armor and plan to get 33% eventually (Warsoul helm, SoA:Chaos) which i think is enough and therefore wouldn't use channeling ornaments either.0
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Physical ornaments for survivability.
/thread.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Its not even up for debate, sorry tewakz no point in even coming out from under your bridge for this one.
3-6% chan takes the back seat to adding 1.2k p def to yourself(war neck) you can - chan just fine as a cleric with weapons, tops bracers rings and sage magic shell
P def ornamentsYeah my sig doesn't match my name...i would say im being all clever and trying to confuse people...but im really just too lazy to make a new one
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
A lot of clerics I know, including myself, carry both.
If you're not getting hit physically, there's no need for extra p.def. The m.def from the ornaments is laughable compared to what you already have, but if you have a channel/vit or a channel/mag belt to swap to, those adds are nice little additions.
But, if there's any physical damage, protection ornaments hands down.0 -
The adds on pdef ornaments alone should warrant their usage if one had to choose only a single type.Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »The adds on pdef ornaments alone should warrant their usage if one had to choose only a single type.
If it's a single piece and/or endgame, then yes, I agree.
Currently, my cleric's neck is a Sky Demon's Pearl. The strength is useless to me and while the extra HP is nice to have, it's not always necessary. I generally swap to a neck that has -6%, vit+7, and mag+8 when grinding on magic mobs. While the p.def neck is necessary for play in general, the channel neck is an occasional luxury.
That said, once I finish farming my Cube neck (p.def), I doubt I'll ever swap to my channel neck.0 -
My wife and I both always use physical ornaments. There's so much channeling already in rings, cape, tome, helm, chest, two 99 pieces, one Nirvana piece, weapon, and demon spark/sage ms it doesn't really reduce a cleric's effectiveness in a squad by any significant means to skip -12 channel on neck/belt, however, what certainly is noticeable is the increased survivability well known cube neck or sdp or 90 gold protection neck/ws belt or guard of thundershock provide with both pdef and HP/vit. My mystic could get away with it no prob because she has an extra pdef buff, however, clerics need more survivability than just buffs.0
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Correct me if I'm wrong but...
Post #.......Decision
1..............Phsyical
2..............Phsyical
3..............Phsyical
4..............Phsyical
5..............Phsyical
6..............Phsyical
7.............. "Both" I tried to eliminate as a response with "pick one."
8..............Phsyical
9..............Phsyical
10............Phsyical
So with the unaninimousness of this, are we allowed to oppenly mock/flame/kick/tease/embarass/judge/discriminate any clerics stupid enough to wear only (or primarily) magic ornies?Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
my magic defense comes from points into magic stat and my arcane armor.
i stick phys def (garnets) into all the sockets i have. a few citrines for hp boost since mine is naturally low.0 -
MerseDeska - Raging Tide wrote: »My pdef isn't really the greatest so definitely a physical ornament for meb:surrender . I got about 24% channeling from ring, wep and armor and plan to get 33% eventually (Warsoul helm, SoA:Chaos) which i think is enough and therefore wouldn't use channeling ornaments either.
How you get 24% from 3 equipments? And how you get 33% from -3% helmet and rings with -6%?0 -
cloudcharger+cube neckless+warsong belt at +10...rest citrine gem ..you wont belive what phys defense +hp you can pull...think tw with ful bufs....ofc if rank9 jade betterb:surrender0
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Drobek_CZ - Sanctuary wrote: »How you get 24% from 3 equipments? And how you get 33% from -3% helmet and rings with -6%?
forgot to add 'wrist' aswellb:surrender, and the 33% is together with the wep,armor,wrist, and rep ring + -3% helm and -6% ring0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »Correct me if I'm wrong but...
Post #.......Decision
1..............Phsyical
2..............Phsyical
3..............Phsyical
4..............Phsyical
5..............Phsyical
6..............Phsyical
7.............. "Both" I tried to eliminate as a response with "pick one."
8..............Phsyical
9..............Phsyical
10............Phsyical
So with the unaninimousness of this, are we allowed to oppenly mock/flame/kick/tease/embarass/judge/discriminate any clerics stupid enough to wear only (or primarily) magic ornies?
Yes, you are correct in doing so.Proving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Is it really even applicable to ask this? Clerics and other AAs have great m def. So they cover their weakpoint (p def) much like an HA would cover their weakpoint with m def orns. I suppose Plume Shell does somewhat help with a cleric's low p def, but I would still get a sky demon pearl/anger of the beast soul.
This *could* be a decent LA armor based discussion, but even then I would be inclined to lean towards p defense.Ring Engraving/Amulet Carving Guide - pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1174451
Retired from PWI.
b:bye0 -
is that the new epidemic? b:shockedSakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »The cleric forum posters seem like they need a new argument rather than "vit or pure". Plus, Tweakz needs to +1 his thread count. So...
I thought I'd start a discussion on "Should clerics use physical ornaments or magical ornaments". I know the obvious choice is have both on switch for different situations, but if you had to pick one, what would it be.
Clerics are a squishy class, survival is important to heal the squad and when we are having discussions on how much vitality should you have to survive it seems odd that we don't discuss what gear would be best. Many clerics pick -channeling ornies, but clerics are already a fast channeling class and the difference of -6 or -12% off one second is really more of a placebo than anything else, beyond actual perception. However, the thousands of pdef that can be added to a cleric by a refined belt and neck can go a long way towards survivability. Not to mention, -12% channeling means you can cast a 2 second skill (cast time still remains) 6% quicker but that added pdef can allow you to remove vitality and put in in magic, meaning your heals are unnoticably slower, but stronger and you survive better.
Also, I hear from many endgame clerics that around -30% channeling is the very max you should have or you can't spam skills and end up needing to cast, stop, wait, cast, stop, wait... Meaning that above 30% you actually start losing speed when spamming skills. Your weapon and rings already give 18%, helm another 3% and set bonuses/cape and other equipment puts you up around 30% already. The ornies aren't needed for -channeling and are better served as pdef ornies, allowing you to get in the action and support better.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
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I always carry both. b:shutup
I'm mostly in pdef ornaments though. I only switch to my -ct ornaments while healing during bosses without phy aoe. Or when killing magical mobs and I don't feel any threat of pk around me. b:chuckle0 -
i use only pdef ornaments.. bosses which would require more effort (more channeling) are usually the harder ones, that need more pdef.
why bother to get more chan for those easy ones then?BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
I carry both and default to channeling unless I'm off by myself. The channeling helps with spells like SoR, Squad Heal, and Rez and unless i'm taking phys damage, there really isn't a need for the extra p.def. Sometimes I won't even swap out it's only a brief amount of time, eg when a harpy attacks plume shell + sage vanguard is more than enough even without the ornaments. I usually am not holding aggro long off of them anyway. So I wouldn't necessarily mock a cleric who was wearing, unless they didn't have another set and weren't using them for the channeling bonus. EG, someone wearing a white named magic defense ornament with no beneficial add ons. :P If you have the money, I would definitely carry both. If not, p.def or GTFO basically.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvy for the superb sig
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Everyone that answered "both" clearly didn't read the original post thoroughly...
b:sweatProving that not only archers do math since 2009. b:victory
Current math challenge: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1029711&page=45
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Any skills that can be used to kill you will interrupt BB when successful." -truekossy | "...Sage archers are kind of like Mac owners. They are proud of the weirdest and most unnecessary things." -Aesthor | "We ALL know Jesus doesn't play PWI. He may have suffered a lot for humanity, but he'd NEVER punish himself this way." -Abstractive | "I approve of bananas." -SashaGray0 -
Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »Everyone that answered "both" clearly didn't read the original post thoroughly...
b:sweat
Heaven forbid people read original points of threads. b:shocked[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I always use p.def ones. I have -30% channeling on weapon / armor / rings, and that's more than enough, I can heal just fine in any situations. I would never sacrifice p.def for more channeling.0
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p def is more important. i dont use mdef orn even if they have -chaneling0
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I would choose phy because being killed by things that I know I can kill with ease except for my un-heavied physics pisses me off.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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