LF help with some choises. Read and answer pretty please.

Colum - Raging Tide · August 2011

So, I am lvl 77 barb atm with alt cleric lvl 61.

I started to think making 3 DDs and start to level them up.

So my question is this: What DD classes are most useful in instances?

And here are some facts how to base up your answers:

- I appreciate high and low level opinions, every build opinions too. My thought was to make the purest DD what possible for the greatest damage ofc
- When you are choosing the 3 DDs, i want bm or seeker, archer or sin and myst, psy or wiz to try out all 3 diff type armor on them.
- When answering, best way to help me is show the pros and cons and tell about my uses in different instances. I want to be helping others, not soloing things to myself
- This means I am looking for mostly PvE related class. Of course if the fact is that with the instance build I can PK, surely I will.
- I am mostly going on TT, nirvana, FC, world bosses, stuff like that.

So, again
The best class options?
Who will need these DDs and where?

Any answers are appreciated!

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · August 2011

If you want to help others rather than making a class that can solo things, I would suggest making either a Mystic or Veno or a BM. Reason being, A that are great soloers and B they are even better in parties.

Full Nirvana squads actually run faster with a veno as opposed to just another regular DD (so long as the Veno is making sure to amp and debuff properly) and they can also do thinks such as pass sparks. One of the cons is that a lot of these 5aps or GTFO people don't actually realize this is true so it could be hard to find squads.

A mystic is another great choice because you can be a big help to your squad in a variety of different roles. You can heal, you can debuff, and you can DD. Whatever your squad needs you to do. They may not be masters of any of these, but they can in fact do them all. Which means you'll always be helpful to your squad. If you do run with a cleric, most of them will be very grateful for your rez buff as nothing is worse than having to run all the way back should you die.

Then there is the BM, not only is this a brilliant solo class that can also achieve APS, they are also essential in things like FC due to your stun. They work as backup tanks as well, should your squad have trouble finding one. A person who knows how to play BM, instead of just auto attacking is truly a huge benefit to any squad they should are in.

In the end, it's what suits your playstyle but based off your description of not really wanting to solo things and wanting to support a squad I'd go with one of these three.

Dethprowl - Raging Tide · August 2011

What do you want to do with the alts? Do you want to TW? Just Pve or do you want them for Pvp? Just want more options for faction TT/FC runs?

Not knowing what you are going to do with them is useless. Answer in that case would be just pick any three and have at it.

Colum - Raging Tide · August 2011

Thank you for answers, still more will be appreciated.

To Deth, I totally forgot to mention those things. Now they are added to the first message.
Thank you.

Colum - Raging Tide · August 2011

Bump.
Still adding the fact that I have my own plans for venomancer so no need to suggest that either.

Psy vs wiz vs mystic
sin vs archer
bm vs seeker
there is the base ^^'

StormHydra - Sanctuary · August 2011

The DD that I like to see the most in squads is BM.

They have stuns, and aoe, and are offtanks so can tank when something goes wrong, but they can still do nice damage.

Usually won't steal aggro.

Colum - Raging Tide · August 2011

So it seems i choose BM as a melee DD, ok thanks!

What about sins and archer? Which is better in instances? Are there too much sins already so archer would be more good choise or..?

And myst-psy-wizzie. Who is the best DD in dungeons? Ikr mystic is great supporter but are there enough mystics and psychics already?

DudeLupus - Raging Tide · August 2011

I have a BM as well as psy and wiz. So I can make a couple comments on these classes.

I always feel more useful on my BM than any of my other characters. AOE's like mad including an AOE stun. People love to have Heaven's Flame and our phys defense buff is nice as well. Multiple weapon paths is a plus, I can use axes for aoe's on mobs and use fists/claws on bosses to build enough chi to use HF at every 30 second cooldown.

At level 80 I started taking agro from same level barbs that weren't constantly spamming FR, but removing Jones Blessing (rather than slowing your attacks) on bosses fixes this. Other than usually having less HP than a seeker, I can't really see a downside to playing BM in a party. I don't have a high enough lvl seeker to comment on exactly what they can do. I know they are great DDs and have incredible defense. Seekers are usually (in my experience) able to tank some things earlier than BMs.

As for the wiz/psy debate, honestly neither is extremely important to a squad but both do good damage. I personally feel more comfortable on my wiz. Having several spells of each element helps us maximize damage, and a wiz doesn't have to sacrifice attack power for their extra defense. Also, Force of will is one of my favorite skills in the game. Almost instant channel, and makes mobs run from you. Sort of another knockback skill. Also, dragon's breath your constant AOE, looks cool and does good damage every few seconds. Good for taking out large groups with other AOE classes. Wiz can also heal, although in small capacity and usually done to simply top off your own HP. Can sutra>heal in really sticky situations when the tank needs a quick boost.

Psy has bubble of life, which is an AOE heal-over-time. Nice to help the cleric heal ranged squad members during AOE bosses. A psychic's damage over time skills do full damage in white voodoo, so on bosses you can still do good damage with a high defense level. Empowered vigor is a cool skill that increases healing effect of skills/pots and decreases charm cooldown time.

It's early for me, so if anyone wants to add to what I said or correct me on any points go ahead.

Kagizyu - Heavens Tear · August 2011

psychics and wizzies are less likely to be wanted in [?] boss squads because damage output is so low over time...

Mystics/veno pets do full damage with pets and debuff and everything

bms and sins are highest DPS, bms being better aoes, sins being harder hitters

........and the way that i named them, is also from cheapest to most expensive lol...

Colum - Raging Tide · August 2011

ok so if i understand right, mystic's faster attacking is more appreciated than wizzie's great overall damage?

I still see BM beating Seeker so I think I go for BM if there is no any high lvl seeker telling more experiences about the class.. ^^'

And it seems Sin > Archer

Miugre - Heavens Tear · August 2011

Keep in mind that many people (especially on this forum) will recommend BM and sin because they're best suited to high-APS damage dealing. If you're not going high-aps (which I would recommend and is quite common), those advantages do not apply. Keep that in mind.

As for the individual comparisons:
Sin vs. Archer: Both good, just depends on whether you want to do your DPS at melee or at range. Both have a couple of support skills. Archer is somewhat more useful at controlling situations (such as stealing aggro off a boss at range to save the cleric), whereas with the sin it's mostly about damage dealing (even if you don't go high-APS).

BM vs. Seeker: Have not played a Seeker myself (well, except to lv15 or so) so I can't give a full comparison, but the BM has more weapon/skill variety while the Seeker has some frankly epic skill damage (or so I'm told). Either one can tank, too - the notion that BMs and Seekers are only DDs is a myth. They don't wear heavy armor for nothing. >_>

Mystic vs. Wiz vs. Psychic: It all depends on whether you want to DD or support. Mystic is a jack-of-all-trades class. They have some support skills, some damage skills, and some debuffing skills. You can't use them to solo-tank like a Veno can, though. Psychics are good DD but their strength lies more in their self-buffs and retaliatory tricks. Playing a wiz, by contrast, is at least 90% about DD. :P If you're going for rarity, though, go for the wiz.

EDIT: On a side note, OP, please don't base your decisions off of "what [you think] people would appreciate." Because I can tell you right now, people appreciate a good player WAY more than any individual class. I'd rather see a comparatively-weak wiz or psy who knows how to play their class than just another high-APS powerleveled sin, any day.

Bottom line: You can do great with any class, just take the time to learn it well.

Colum - Raging Tide · August 2011

Thank you very much Miugre!

So here is my plan then for my characters
I go with my barb for the vit build
Cleric as the regular healer
HA veno for AMP, fox form skills etc, soloing things

And these DD classes related to help

Archer and Sin still unclear... Ranged damage sounds good tho. Which is cheaper, APS sin or just well-geared archer? I also see very rare archers nowadays on my server so they start to tempt me.
Which has the higher damage overall, sin or archer?

I am absolutely sure I take BM IF there is not a high lvl seeker who has also played BM and tell something about both's pros and cons ^^
It seems that BM's stuns and nice weapon choises win now. I also like their phys def skill very much. Seeker's skills look cool tho but BM has so much nice choises..

Okay and I go for Wizzie then if there is no more info about psychic. I know kinda much about mystics and I like more DDing than supporting. Besides there is so many mystics now. Wizzies are the rare dying class.. I want to try that out.
Wizzies are the best mag tanks for sure also(?) At least in bh 59 against those mag bosses.
Does psychics have much of zhen-typed skills after lvl 59?

StormHydra - Sanctuary · August 2011

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Keep in mind that many people (especially on this forum) will recommend BM and sin because they're best suited to high-APS damage dealing. If you're not going high-aps (which I would recommend and is quite common), those advantages do not apply. Keep that in mind.

Actually I prefer Axe BMs (i.e. non-aps) because of their aoe's are lifesavers and they won't stupidly steal aggro like most sins.

Psychics have no zhen skills. There's only Seeker, Archer and Wizard for Zhen skills.

Wizards are so much more fun than psys though. Awesome skill animations, MASSIVE AOES AND DAMAGE. No one else can summon a freaking dragon that is also the hardest hitting full magic skill in the game. (and it's aoe)

If you're in a equal squad and your sparked blade tempest crits, your crit will deal 2x as much damage as anyone else's critical hits. (I have a 73 wizard, 52k Crit blade tempest on Zimo in FB59). No one else will hit that much dmg in a single attack for another 15 levels.

Psys have higher overall damage over a long period of time because they have fast channelling speeds, though. But you wont see huge numbers pop up on your screen.

Wizards also have higher defense because of their shields. They have the highest phys defense of any robe class (which is very important because robes have tiny defense) due to 100% physical defense long term buff. (And also increase fire/water/earth resists by 100%, though only 1 is allowed at a time)

Kagizyu - Heavens Tear · August 2011

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

ok so if i understand right, mystic's faster attacking is more appreciated than wizzie's great overall damage?

I still see BM beating Seeker so I think I go for BM if there is no any high lvl seeker telling more experiences about the class.. ^^'

And it seems Sin > Archer

No no and no o.o

Mystic's summons are more appreciated than wizzies overall damage on [?] bosses in places... since the pet will give the mystic an up in damage... and the plants do full damage as well as the debuffs help all classes rather than themselves. Even though the wiz buff is pretty good over time.

BM beats seeker in dps, seeker wins in aoe damage.

Sins beat archers upclose, archers beat sins at range.

LF help with some choises. Read and answer pretty please.

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