Nerf aps? civilized conversation plz :P

b:avoid

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hello person with one post.

its actually not my 1st, i guess an other glitch like core connect b:avoid

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

if u get the assasin now geared , u will never ask to Nerf APS.

<== Sin geared up that can solo 3-3 and wb voted to nerf aps. Actually many ppl ingame, including 5 aps bms/archers/sins, I chat with ingame agree they should nerf aps (or more generally, rebalance classes). Also waiting for Angel_spawn to post.

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide wrote: »

More and more !

Every Class other than assasin or BM CAN build r9 all gear , to get 20 atk lvl and 20 def lvls , with chance to +2 def shard x4 EACH PART !

WHY ( cause assassin will loose his APS if use R9 PARTS )

While assasin or BM cant get 1 single part R9 , so GO PLAY OTHER ONE ! silly .

http://pwcalc.com/cefc0c748bc91a98 Bm with half r9 half nivy 5.0 sparked 27 atk lvl and 23 def lvl...enjoy

Agreed. b:victory

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I used to care about this.

Then I joined my current faction.

Now I don't care about aps, 'cause it no longer makes me irrelevant, aps are fun to play with.

In short, it's all about greed. People are mad at apsers because many only wanna run with apsers. However when those apsers turn out to be cool people who don't care if the whole squad is aps as long as there's the essential BM and Sin, the squad then becomes win and the APS becomes beneficial for all.

It's not the APS that sucks, it's the people who are selfish once they get it.

I found the options in the poll a bit confusing, so I didn't vote. I'm a 5 APS barb and believe something should be done about the current system; I mainly switched to APS because it was impossible to keep aggro anymore. I'd applaud any change that would make it a necessity to have a 'proper' tank (that can actually keep aggro) for instances that become available at your level. I wouldn't mind the loss in coins if that would make my gear less useful, if it meant a more balanced game.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

And then there's 5aps barbs. Lol

Barbs were made specifically for tanking..therefore, I don't see a problem with barbs going 5aps.

OK did you thought about the several months that take to level a caster too? Caters arent leveled for FREE we had work on this TOOO. And we didnt did that work to get rejected on squads cuz we ARE NOT REAL DD'S. So if you APS could live in peace with casters and call them for squads sometimes this problem would never appear. NO we cant squad with casters to cuz tell me what damn caster can tank a boss?

well my opinion is that all clases should be totaly removed from existing and only clas left sins, than make about 10 sin subclases with diferent shapes and litle more diferent skils but all to be able to be 5 aps. that for me would be perfect world.

The problem is not 5 APS that much.

Sorry , but my opinion is that sins are the ones that broke the whole thing down.

Their pure DPS is the problem. Mix possiblity to get daggers that hit as hard as a 2 handed sword would but at 5 hits per second with bloodpaint to heal back as u do damage, you can easily see where things went wrong.

Let's see now.. I'll make a comparasion with NON-cs'ers (those who are too poor to go R8/R9, 5 aps, +10 and stuff) We are gonna take casual players that play whitout putitng cash in as much as they can.

Same level (let's say 90) and talking about "normal" high-level gear, (mold or tt)

Barb vs BM : Fist bm can steal, but barb can steal back (and keep) fast enough.

Barb vs Herc Veno : Again, a agro steal is possible for a very short time, then back to tank.

Barb vs Seeker : No contest, unless the seeker perma-vortexes the boss, barb wins

Barb vs Cleric : Cleric have very high damaging spells that can steal but if only one in squad and starts to DD instead of healing, almost deserves to get agro, b:chuckle

Barb vs Wizard : Can be serious agro ping-pong here, but wizard can't perma-hold agro with no ways of barb to get back.

Barb vs Archer : About same as wizard, will steal cause of crit %, but barb would be able to steal back.

Barb vs Psy : At similar refines, barb shoudnt have too much trouble getting back.

Barb vs Mystic : Not sure.. I heard mystic have pretty powerful magic atk skills, but would still be temporary.

Barb vs Sin : At exact same level, same refines on gear, sin still has higher dps. I have been siding a lot with a lot of different classes during bh in witch , I was on my barb. What scares me the most is when I see a sin triple spark. I know right there, that APS or not, if I don't do anything, agro IS gonna switch. Only way to be almost 100% sure to steal back (and try to keep) is fleash realm + alpha male, followed by devour. Even then it's tricky, cause devour will make him/her do even more damage and if there's a bm that HF's, well...You see anyway...

"I" personnally think that daggers have too high damage for the kind of small wep it is.
I know that game ain't real like, but just compare a sec here... Is it normal that a small 6 inch blade dagger does as much damage as a 50 pounds pole hammer over time ? (I don't mean 1 single hit wise, I mean on say..a 5 minutes period, daggers will have done more damage)

Now add to the mix..cash invested and u have a lot of possibilities, too many to list.
Full 5 APS sin sharded at +10 or more will do more damage OVER TIME then any other classes at basiccly 0 cost from teh actual combat. .Mage classes use charm up bad and mp food if they start casting like crazy, seeker need a lot of mana food to keep vortex going, true archers uses up arrows (I know a bit stupid but did have to find them a cost), etc..Tanks must always check chi to keep agro and whatnot..

Sins ? Get 3 sparks, hit a button and watch boss die considerng yourself OP. No mp food needed, no hp pots either if they have bloodpaint on and a clerc even justa bit aware of whats going on..

APS has been here since the very 1st piece of gear with -int was implemented.

It IS sins that came unbalance things and make APS SEEEM worse then what it was before..

I don't see any kind of fix to that. They were created, they rule, what can we say... Now that people invested so much, changing rules would be like shootng yourself in your own foot. We are "stuck" with that changes.. Only one fix possible and it's by players. Don't like APS and/or sins ? Just dont invite one to your squad and go hunt with those who respect whatever build u are.

.

Simply no. #1 "APS" is what lets non-CSers to have a possibility to farm their gear. Try to run nirvana with wizards, it would request a year to make (maybe) a piece of endgame equip.#2 And what's wrong with the damage? stop the "Barbs can't keep agro" , what did u expect? barbs have high defense, high HP, you all expect them to also have high damage? A good thing would be to make the agro skills more effective, but don't tell me you want a tank to deal the same damage as a damage dealer... that's not their purpose. About BMs, they have higher defense than sins, it's fair sins do more damage(or maybe u want BMs to do as much damage as sins?) That would make ASSASSINS a worthless class.


If u want to "farm" things, roll a more appropriate class ( the so-hated "APS classes") . If u want to do TWs (and don't tell me that this doesn't balance the question, TW should be the final aim of players) roll a "DPH class".
I don't really see the point of the "pls nerf the stealth" ****. Does the stealth ability make u so mad? Go to check every other MMORPG, stealth is one of the most common skill in every game. Assassins w/o stealth are a **** (PvP wise ofc) equally geared. If ur problem are the R9 sins, well, the really problem is the gear. Don't tell me a R9 wizard/Archer/psychic can't kill a sin easily if unstealthed.

I don't understand all this "oh remove 5 aps and sins become useless QQ" bullcrap.

REPEATEDLY wizards are told "oh your class is a pk/tw class, you shouldn't be able to farm well." And this is true, in most MMOs wizards are a pking class, not a farming class, though they're usually still considered viable.


Well sins, I'd hate to burst your bubble, but PWI is the only MMO where sins are not only the top pking class (r9 psys excluded) but also the top farmers. Sure, you might not be efficient in TW (though still quite damn deadly there) but hey, only maybe 20% (and that's being generous) of each server really gets to TW.

So, while I keep hearing caster classes told they're "pk only" classes; I also keep hearing sins, the "pk king class", say they'd be "useless" without their 5 aps to farm. (God knows sins don't need 5 aps to pk, so don't give me that ****.)

Just seems like the sins are talking out both sides of their mouths.

And oh, I think 5 aps should be nerfed (or balanced into the system), and yes, I have a 5 aps character (almost 2).

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The thing is, Assassins aren't the only ones benefiting from high aps. BMs, Barbs and Archers also do. And if you failed to notice, Assassin is the only class out of these four that can maintain a completely flawless permaspark at as low as 2.86 aps.

Also, Assassins are the only close-range light armor class in the game. Comparatively, an assassin has **** defenses and **** life. Take away the stealth and they'll be oneshots or twoshots for Archers, psychics and wizards.

And it's not like lowering the APS would benefit the casters anyway: as long as it remains at 2.86 or higher, nothing is going to change, as Assassins will still be the top dogs. And even if you lower it, an Archer is still going to do more damage than a Wizard or a Psychic, that's how it was before APS turned into a fad. And then what, you're going to QQ that Archers got too high DPH or crit?

And besides, majority of all assassin complainers are complaining about the PK side. That, in itself, is kinda hypocritical, because really no one wants Assassins to be nerfed in PvE if you're also one of the beneficiaries. And the complaints from the PK side usually amount to "MAKE ASSASSINS USELESS NOW BECAUSE I CANNOT STAND THE IDEA OF LOSING TO SOMEONE WHO HAS INFERIOR GEAR "

Yeah I don't want aps lowered, that's not the right way to do it. I'd prefer a more PvE-related change like Asterelle I think suggested with moving bosses and such.

Though I'd still have to say that sin+ aps is pretty broken in PvP.

I thought at this point, everyone just started investing into a 5.0 char for at least farming purposes?

They won't change it, APS threads have been coming since last year.

I know loads of players that either have a farming alt at 5.0 aps, or have connections to one, as awkward as it may sound.

5 aps + bloodpaint can solo pretty much everything in this game faster, and more efficiently than any traditional squad. 1 person is more efficient than 6 people? That doesn't sound right. Of course it needs a nerf >_>

what are the odds 99% of the people who posted in this thread have never seen or been with a 5aps person ?