Is APS a glitch?

it works exactly how it suppose to work,
0.2 sec interval clearly give 5 attack per second,
how thats miscalculated?

Usagai is referring to it not working like -% channeling gear works.

As far as it is now it works just fine, there's no glitch that I'm aware of but it does come up now and again that perhaps -interval was supposed to be more like that of the math for %channel and not how it works currently.

ie: in the case that it was a "glitch" it would be because it is missing a diminishing return factor seen in %channeling because interval is based on actual hit time and not a percentile of a base.

it's called stupid as ****. just read it back to yourself, slowly.

five

attacks

per

second

There's a problem with linear vs exponential increases with APS.

Current APS is a non-linear, interval based increase. This means that BM's, Barbs, and fist users get the most benefit of -interval, and dagger users the second most benefit. Bow users, on the other hand, get less benefit, but still, quite a bit.

If, on the other hand, APS went to a linear, attack speed increase, then it would reverse, and we would all find that Archers would suddenly be vastly OP compared to fist/dagger users. A bow at 2.5 APS would be a terror, and do a shocking amount of DPS. A bow at 2.5 would be doing more DPS than fists or daggers at 3.33 or 4.0, depending on the bow and fists/daggers. Personally, I would be ALL FOR 2.5 or 3.33 on a bow, the damage output would be just staggering, and most likely, people could still keep their precious 5.0 with fists or 4.0 with daggers. But, it would change the balance of the game again, and Sins wouldn't be able to hold aggro from Archers, as it might turn out that even permasparked, the massive DPS from a bow at 2.5 is gonna be too much for daggers.

Then you're getting close to permaspark territory on the Archer... So it just gets more lopsided.

Chances are that it is, but became widespread too fast before they could do anything about it and the fact that they were selling more packs because of it. Now compare it to insta channel, which is harder to get and doesn't really require cash shopping, so they nerf that instead before it got out of hand too.

The APS system works as intended. People tend to overlook that "Interval Between Hits -x.xx seconds" is affecting the time in between hits, or rather, how long it takes to get one hit. -Interval gears affect attack duration, not your attack speed. This thread by Elenacostel (Warning: Notorious Archer maths contained within) explains exactly how the APS system works: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561

In my opinion it's a design flaw, it's hard to tell of course without the original design for the game. The FC glitch would seem like faulty coding of the 'retreat mode' of the boss, where a monster is not supposed to do anything but walk back. This would be what I consider a glitch (a coding error / bug causing unintended beneficial consequences)

APS on the other hand seems to be designed to give increased rewards for more -interval added for weapons with a lower base interval. This considering the game speficially uses a float for the channeling time (easily reducable by small percentages), while it uses a (integer) multiple of 0.05 intervals for attack speed, where small percentages (like the -3 or -6% from channeling) are likely to have no effect at all, thus they use -0.05 and -0.10

It is obvious that a subtraction model causes significant rewards for a lower starting value, as opposed to a percentage based model. Assuming the designers understood that concept, I'd say it was designed to be this way; just not fully thought through at higher numbers and/or at the time this system was designed these particular designers didn't think (or wanted) a large number of items with -interval would exist that could simultaneously be worn by the same character.

If different people were involved in the creation of this particular mechanic and the design of the items, or at different steps in the process, with a lack of communication I could easily imagine this happening. Especially considering the time between the creation of the game and when the 'trouble' began. The hard cap of 5.0 (0.20 interval) might just be arbitrarily chosen to avoid divided by zero errors, not so much meant to be reached. Although I admit in this case it would be more logical to have a hard cap of 0.05 interval (20 aps), but we'll never know their intentions anyway.

I believe most of the game was originally designed to be a p2p game, which I don't think people here played (?). Would it be safe to assume that at that time not all the -interval items currently in existence were there, and thus the cap would never be reached? Could it be that those items were later added (before or after it turned into PW2, the f2p version) by people that did not fully understand the ramifications? This would point to a design flaw / lack of communication or documentation to me, not so much a glitch.

tl;dr
design flaw, not glitch.

edit:
as to decreasing the hard cap of 5.0, it might not be as easy as you think to change this value. It would very much depend on how the game was coded. If this was done properly, there would be one value that has to be changed. If it was not, as I expect, they might have to dig through all the source code looking for values like 0.2, 4, 5.0 and checking whether they have anything to do with the attack speed. Missing some of these values would lead to some nasty bugs I imagine :P So they just might not want to **** up the original code (I've read places they don't even have access to the original source code / aren't allowed / able to edit it, never quite followed what happened there exactly).

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

There is only one rule in PWI: if's it stays longer than 1 month then it's not a glitch - it's a feature.


If bugged veno pet flesh ream can be a feature, if -0.5interval can be equal to -3% channeling (or even -1% channeling, like on tomes), if assassin's Force Stealth can give you spark instead of using one - then I don't see why boss spawning more (hard as hell) mobs than usual can be a glitch.

A) wrong topic

You said it yourself, more than usual. As in the normal behavior of that thing is not such tat it spawns that many. You have to do something that causes it to behave abnormally; and then exploit that. So yeah, FC glitching is and should be a bannable offense because it's exploiting a glitch. It's not the way its supposed to work and you know it. If you're going to do it (or think people should be allowed) because it's completely unreasonable how much little exp other things give you when you are that level if you aren't an assassin; then fine. But call a spade a spade. It's a glitch. Exploiting it is against the ToS and anyone who does so does so at their own risk.

C) APS I don't think it's a glitch. I agree with Astrelle it's more of a design flaw. I think it should work like -channeling, where it's a percentage decrees instead of this exponential thing where a person can easily hit the cap with readily available gear in game. Even if it is expensive.

just because something is a feature doesn't mean it's deserving of more credibility than if it were a glitch

the point should be that it's stupid as **** : )

Did u all forget ur not getting real aps till 99 and the max at 100 unless u are a sin? why does everyone QQ so much geez

At any rate it will never be fixed or changed. We begged and pleaded for Nixes to be fixed.. Did it ever happen? Naw. How about making catapult's not able to hide the puller in TW? Ever fixed? Nope. Rubberbanding? Negativeeee. Sins being able to insta-gib out of stealth? The list just goes on and on.

Proski - Archosaur wrote: »

it's called stupid as ****. just read it back to yourself, slowly.

five

attacks

per

second

b:laugh I was thinking about that too yesterday, and it's completly stupid. Then again is a game, and the attack rate was not designed too well, like many other things in this game. Now is up to you wether you will qq about it or take advantage of it.

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Now the spark or increase attack rate skill works on the attacks per second. so at 3.33 when increased 25% by demon spark, it comes to 4.1625, so aren't apsers just lucky that the game rounds up to the next available step in the aps chain? at 4.0 base the 25% increase = exactly 5.0 and thus, 5aps occurs!.

... Wrong.

+attack speed% is actually -interval%. Easily proven by using variable skills such as Wind Shield, or by cross-checking with other weaponry.

And the way it works is actually:
0.3 *0.75 = 0.225 -> Rounded to 0.2 due to the game being in accuracy of 0.05 -> 1/0.2 = 5.0 attack speed

stop getting trolled guys b:laugh

cant be that hard to notice sarcasm b:shocked

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

You know, it is sooo hard to see those who did and didn't. I can safely say that 90% (if not 95%) of those in these forums that are 104-105 used it, even 103 is somewhat questionable depending on how long they have been here. I do cube each and every day, I am also married so I do Marriage quest each day and I gain 1.5 mil exp total. I don't FC , nor hyper in it cause , yeah, I could gain more. But at 1.5 mil a day, takes me 267 millions to get to 102 so basicly 178 days to level. Now if I continue that way and maybe adapt myself to make twice that (3 mils exp per day) from 104 to 105 will be 1 333 days.

i would like to point out, that just because you get 1.5m exp a day doesnt mean others dont get more, you said it yourself you dont hyper fc, many do, and thusly would take the amount of time needed to level and decrease it substantially.

as for weather aps is glitched, i say no its workin as programmed, the problem is it was meant as an extreme end game thing such as r9 but because pwi is greedy they made it readily available to most players cheaply