Deicide vs. R8 Daggers

SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
edited August 2011 in Assassin
Ok before you begin to flame read my whole post. (Yes i used to be anti-clawsin at a point too)

With the R8 daggers i will be 2.86 APS sparked (unable to permaspark)

With Deicide i will be 5 APS sparked (able to permaspark)

I have a pair of Deicides that i got EXTREMELY cheap.

I will only be using them to farm until i get cannies for vana pants and daggers using the 5.0 to get into 5.0 vana squads

If i choose to use deicide i will still have R8 daggers with me.

Full deicide- http://pwcalc.com/c05ea3f9554eac4c

Full r8 dags- http://pwcalc.com/f282d988b66d692d

In one spark R8 slightly out-damages Deicide but overall due to the ability to permaspark, deicide wins in overall DPS in an extended fight.

So what are your opinions on this?

Please dont flame i put lots of thought into ths.
Post edited by SinFulGodX - Sanctuary on
«1

Comments

  • Evict - Heavens Tear
    Evict - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,301 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Roll a BM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dysk is my tasty chimichanga. <3
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I wouldn't really call 11% more DPS "small".

    Also, 2.86 is plenty enough to get yourself permasparking.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • NoXide_ - Heavens Tear
    NoXide_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ok before you begin to flame read my whole post. (Yes i used to be anti-clawsin at a point too)

    With the R8 daggers i will be 2.86 APS sparked (unable to permaspark)

    With Deicide i will be 5 APS sparked (able to permaspark)

    I have a pair of Deicides that i got EXTREMELY cheap.

    I will only be using them to farm until i get cannies for vana pants and daggers using the 5.0 to get into 5.0 vana squads

    If i choose to use deicide i will still have R8 daggers with me.

    Full deicide- http://pwcalc.com/c05ea3f9554eac4c

    Full r8 dags- http://pwcalc.com/f282d988b66d692d

    In one spark R8 slightly out-damages Deicide but overall due to the ability to permaspark, deicide wins in overall DPS in an extended fight.

    So what are your opinions on this?

    Please dont flame i put lots of thought into ths.

    theres something wrong with the pwcalc for R8 daggers, im pretty sure 2.5 unsparked is 3.33 sparked and not 2.86, correct me if im wrong.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    NoXide_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    theres something wrong with the pwcalc for R8 daggers, im pretty sure 2.5 unsparked is 3.33 sparked and not 2.86, correct me if im wrong.

    That is true.

    Except that, with closer looking, this is another PWcalc Warrior at work: he had activated RB.

    His actual APS is 2.0, not 2.5. Either way, it'd still bring him to 2.86 sparked.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • SmifnWesson - Lost City
    SmifnWesson - Lost City Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Except that, with closer looking, this is another PWcalc Warrior at work

    b:laugh
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    140 Str? - fail there
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    *takes off all not-sin related buffs*

    There is no reason to say your r8 build can't permaspark. If you take a genie skill, even a 1.25 aps sin can permaspark. On just sin skills you can somewhere around 2.22/2.5 aps.

    Sparked r8 dps is better, and unsparked the gap is even bigger. Unsparked damage is also has some importance : Spark at mobs in a bh like seat/aba and the squad will have killed it for you can even hit it, metal you should aoe too, just as some examples.

    Your str on the r8 build is really high, any reason other then not changing it to make both builds?

    I doubt that 2mil + 2 immac garnets + refine to +3 (since you got the plate for both builds, so you must have the rep anyway) is more expensive then a pair of deicides. Not to mention a restat later on.

    Only adventage for deicides is to say "I'm 5 aps", which may get you a wc squad faster, but on sanc they start to ask weap link also... Most players will not invite a claw/fist sin, since it's reputated to be a sign of noobishnes. R8 however, is commonly accepted as a decent lvl100/endgame weapon, even if not the best around.
  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That is true.

    Except that, with closer looking, this is another PWcalc Warrior at work: he had activated RB.

    His actual APS is 2.0, not 2.5. Either way, it'd still bring him to 2.86 sparked.

    woops b:surrender

    140 Str? - fail there

    fail troll? My build already has 365dex so i cant stat 146 str by lvl 100. However, i will still weild deicide with 140 str due to add ons >.>
    There is no reason to say your r8 build can't permaspark. If you take a genie skill, even a 1.25 aps sin can permaspark. On just sin skills you can somewhere around 2.22/2.5 aps.

    Sparked r8 dps is better, and unsparked the gap is even bigger. Unsparked damage is also has some importance : Spark at mobs in a bh like seat/aba and the squad will have killed it for you can even hit it, metal you should aoe too, just as some examples.

    Your str on the r8 build is really high, any reason other then not changing it to make both builds?

    I doubt that 2mil + 2 immac garnets + refine to +3 (since you got the plate for both builds, so you must have the rep anyway) is more expensive then a pair of deicides. Not to mention a restat later on.

    Only adventage for deicides is to say "I'm 5 aps", which may get you a wc squad faster, but on sanc they start to ask weap link also... Most players will not invite a claw/fist sin, since it's reputated to be a sign of noobishnes. R8 however, is commonly accepted as a decent
    lvl100/endgame weapon, even if not the best around.

    All true, but i got deicide already DIRT CHEAP
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I'll put it like this for you:


    Use the deicide for selling frost big room.

    Use the r8 dagger for NV squads (cause sins BP = Loved, idfc if your aps or not give me BP and we allll goooooood b:cool)
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    woops b:surrender




    fail troll?

    Yeah; try harder next time.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    All true, but i got deicide already DIRT CHEAP

    Then sell it for profit, merchant yourself up a bit and woo, you got your gear.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Then sell it for profit, merchant yourself up a bit and woo, you got your gear.

    I'm scared to emrchant because i fear the potential that i will lose money D:. And idk how to merchant either. Never bothered learning due to risk of $ loss.

    And i will definitely have R8 even if i stat 140 str for deicide. So the uestion is really shud i stat 140 str and use deicide for a while, or shud i just stay pure dex
  • DarkShadowz$ - Sanctuary
    DarkShadowz$ - Sanctuary Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    i'd say use Decides From 95-100 and upon reaching 100 switch to Ocean Supreme and keep Decides for Selling Fcc exp room to get Your Barrier Thorn
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm scared to emrchant because i fear the potential that i will lose money D:. And idk how to merchant either. Never bothered learning due to risk of $ loss.

    Let me tell you this: It doesn't take a genius to make profit on merchanting. Most of it is really simple. It only gets complicated when you have enough for the more expensive batch items, which is at 100 Gold.

    And unless you do stupid things, making losses is rare. There really is only two things that are required for a good merchant: patience and self-restraint. The former is mostly in waiting out for gold prices to settle after a maintenance. The latter is mostly about not spending your coins on things.

    And trust me: having 5 aps with Deicides won't get you into those high aps nirvana squads. Those squads are already shunning archers because of their low damage, not like they'd take a sin who's using claws as that's just an archer with BP. But yes, you COULD use the claws for other purposes, such as farming TTs or soloing FC to sell to people.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    All true, but i got deicide already DIRT CHEAP

    An advantageous financing doesn't make it a good investment. It's like buying a house hours away from your work, just cause you got a good loan.

    I'm 100% sure you can sell those deicides and spend that on something better then those 2 immacs with +3.
  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Let me tell you this: It doesn't take a genius to make profit on merchanting. Most of it is really simple. It only gets complicated when you have enough for the more expensive batch items, which is at 100 Gold.

    And unless you do stupid things, making losses is rare. There really is only two things that are required for a good merchant: patience and self-restraint. The former is mostly in waiting out for gold prices to settle after a maintenance. The latter is mostly about not spending your coins on things.

    And trust me: having 5 aps with Deicides won't get you into those high aps nirvana squads. Those squads are already shunning archers because of their low damage, not like they'd take a sin who's using claws as that's just an archer with BP. But yes, you COULD use the claws for other purposes, such as farming TTs or soloing FC to sell to people.

    Can you possibly gimme some tips and teach me how to merch ingame?
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Can you possibly gimme some tips and teach me how to merch ingame?

    This handy piece by a rather successful merchant covers all that I could say on the subject. Well, as long as you have the patience to read all 7 parts, that is.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    As a claw sin back when I was level 95, I used Deicides from 95 to 100, which from there I sold Deicides, used R8 daggers until I got enough to get first cast vana daggers, and used those.

    I used Deicides mainly because:

    -By the time I hit 95 and was wearing my Pan Gu tome and Lunar Cape, my strength, which was statted for Warsoul helm, was around 135. I just needed a few more to wear Deicides, so I decided why not.
    -I have never experienced 5aps before around that time, and Deicides would have brought me up to that.
    -The DPS of 5aps Deicides (+3) was a little bit higher than 3.33 aps H&T (+3)
    -Permaspark was a lot easier with 5aps
    -By 100 I was 5aps base with Deicides, so it was fun for a little bit
    [SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
    Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
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  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    As a claw sin back when I was level 95, I used Deicides from 95 to 100, which from there I sold Deicides, used R8 daggers until I got enough to get first cast vana daggers, and used those.

    I used Deicides mainly because:

    -By the time I hit 95 and was wearing my Pan Gu tome and Lunar Cape, my strength, which was statted for Warsoul helm, was around 135. I just needed a few more to wear Deicides, so I decided why not.
    -I have never experienced 5aps before around that time, and Deicides would have brought me up to that.
    -The DPS of 5aps Deicides (+3) was a little bit higher than 3.33 aps H&T (+3)
    -Permaspark was a lot easier with 5aps
    -By 100 I was 5aps base with Deicides, so it was fun for a little bit

    Yea sorta my pace without the tome. I want to use Deicide to farm in vana as a "5.0 sin" to get into APS-obssessed squads. I will only use them until i get vana pants which will allow me to permaspark with my R8 daggers.
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I see. No one really shunned me for being a claw sin, but people on sin forums tend to do that xD.

    It's just with minimum str to wear the claws, your DPS will be severely lacking compared to daggers, which are dex-based in terms of damage.
    [SIGPIC]Octavia is best pony[/SIGPIC]
    Vicious's Brony. Brohoof!
    youtube.com/user/SkaiPW - Assassin PvE/PvP Videos!
  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I see. No one really shunned me for being a claw sin, but people on sin forums tend to do that xD.

    It's just with minimum str to wear the claws, your DPS will be severely lacking compared to daggers, which are dex-based in terms of damage.

    Yea R8 will hit harder in 1 spark:; however, Deicide will do more dps overall due to permaspark.

    I'm doing this mostly to get into "aps obsesses" vana to farm my gear.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yea R8 will hit harder in 1 spark:; however, Deicide will do more dps overall due to permaspark.

    I'm doing this mostly to get into "aps obsesses" vana to farm my gear.

    1. You can permaspark at 2.86
    2. You still won't get into a decent nirvana squad if you use claws
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    3. Nirvana really isn't that great a money maker.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1. You can permaspark at 2.86

    I'm not that good with chi skill rotation
  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »
    3. Nirvana really isn't that great a money maker.

    Vana for mats not money... fcc for money :D
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm not that good with chi skill rotation

    How is it really that hard? You have 4 chi-gaining skills.
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Vana for mats
    Not really no...
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm not that good with chi skill rotation

    Um, how can you even say that? Spark -> Chi skill -> go. The rotation is Rising Dragon Strike -> Inner Harmony -> Rising Dragon Strike. You might need to use a Tackling Slash in there somewhere. Demon Rising Dragon Strike might also be of use, with its lower cooldown.
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Vana for mats not money... fcc for money :D

    No, just no. Nirvana doesn't make those kinds of money unless you get into the 4+ aps squads. And let me tell you, they don't take clawsins, they already get way too many clawarchers offering themselves. And the reason? Because clawarchers got the cheapest 5 aps so masses went for archers.

    Also, pretty much all squads nowadays sell their mats to either their members or catshops. Well, at least in my experience it works so that you sell anything that cannot be split 6 ways. So yeah, you'll be lucky if you get out with 1 uncanny and enough coin for another one. 2 cannies per run, that's 125 runs for your leggings. Well, That's still dandy. Now, since 1 rapture = 4 cannies in price, you'll be looking for an extra 200 runs on top of that for your nirvana weapon.

    325 runs of Nirvana. Assuming you do a constant stream of 3 nirvanas per day starting from the day you get 100, that's 109 days.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Empu - Sanctuary
    Empu - Sanctuary Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    @ Olbaze : I think he's a lvl100 collector. When you make others pay for you lvling up (let's face it, 90% of those who sell heads got their own alt in squad), it's easy to get a lot of lvl100 toons that will just stack up keys for 99 key runs. When you got a toon on other account that can solo the rap boss, it's double jackpot.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Demon Rising Dragon Strike might also be of use, with its lower cooldown.
    25 seconds verses 30 may not seem like that big a deal, but it actually is. I have Demon DS and it is *godly*.
    Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    @ Olbaze : I think he's a lvl100 collector. When you make others pay for you lvling up (let's face it, 90% of those who sell heads got their own alt in squad), it's easy to get a lot of lvl100 toons that will just stack up keys for 99 key runs. When you got a toon on other account that can solo the rap boss, it's double jackpot.

    I know sinful in-game. He isn't that kind of player lol.
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
    ~Spazz~
  • SinfuINature - Harshlands
    SinfuINature - Harshlands Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    get that **** claw stuff outta here...sins with claws are just fail... i can perma spark with just the use of a few skills... here is my gear... ther is no reason why you cannot do the same... http://pwcalc.com/150d87e516eea9d3

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