Let me rephrase?

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
edited July 2011 in General Discussion
I assume due to my lack of information in my last thread, it was removed? Let me go into a bit more detail, so we can get some player-base discussion.

My question: Why does Perfect World Entertainment treat it's players like trash?

More detail:
-Some players are still unable to play PWI due to names still censored
-When serious questions arise, no one from PWE will answer them
-CM is MIA on weekends (as w/ all PWE's staff), and on the weekdays, they don't do much
-Tickets are automated responses 99% of the time

It's an honest question, in my opinion. We, as the players of this game, put time and money (some put real life cash in), and we are greeted w/ a lovely game. However, when we begin to realize the faults of the game, where are the staff?

If the players are the ones giving Perfect World Entertainment the money to finance their game, servers, and daily lives as human beings... Why are these players treated highly unfair, and like dirt?

In a hypothetical situation:
Players love a game
Players put money into said game
Game managers stop caring about player base on flag ship game
Players quit/leave/stop spending money
Game servers merge
Game closes, due to lack of profit & no players

I guess a more fair question to discuss as the community here... When will the game end up closing due to lack of care from PWE and PW-CN?

For Moderators: It's a fair topic to discuss w/ the community of Perfect World International. If you think I've breached ToS by having a discussion about the game's management, that's your problem.

General Discussion
- From Spiritual Cultivation to Territory Occupation. This is the forum for anything Perfect World related.

Perfect World related (Check)
Community discussion (Check)
Question w/ possible community answers (Check)
Against ToS?
Post edited by Tremblewith - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • Jay_Dubbz - Lost City
    Jay_Dubbz - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    They never cared about the players, I mean look on legend of martial arts forums or HotK. They pretty much abandoned those games but still allow people so spend on a dead game with out even saying anything for months. I'm pretty sure the same thing will eventually happen to this game. When they brought packs into the game and said they would remove them just showed how much they didnt care about what the players wanted. Its all about $$ here

    and inb4 some carebear comes and defends pwe
  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I do not think what you wrote (in this thread at least, don't think I saw the other) is violating ToS in any ways.

    Indeed some players are getting fed up with some questions un-answered and some of those very players did put thousands in game and, I judge, do have the right to know.

    I am not one of those big cash shoppers though and I still play this game the best I can for what it was meant to be.. F2P, most of the time. Due to some recent events (few months back) I literraly felt forced to put cash in game to keep up with others. *cough* Charm prices *cough* Not high enough aps *cough*...

    Anyway, I do hope this thread evolves in the good way.. meaning sensible, honest and non flaming responses from the community.
    Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    To the GMs you are nothing but an annoying talking credit card. They don't care about you. They don't care about the game. All they do is build the game to give cash shoppers a huge advantage and sit back and laugh as people spend thousands of dollars because they can't compete in a real PvP game so they buy godmode in this one.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I do not think what you wrote (in this thread at least, don't think I saw the other) is violating ToS in any ways.

    Some moderator thought my last thread, w/ the same underlining question was against the ToS, and removed it completely off this message board.

    "Tremblewith - Heavens Tear, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
    Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
    If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
    "

    Hence why I stated, that if this thread (completely for player to player discussion), is against the ToS, I'd like it to be pointed out where in the ToS does it state that I can't make threads for discussion on Perfect World Entertainment's game -- Perfect World International, and the status of said game.

    If players can't discuss the game's moderation, and the status of the game... Why is their a message board in the first place? Lol, that was my point about the ToS.

    As for the game, I know it's kinda sad... Hoping players can have a solid discussion on what has happened, what will happen, and what is currently happening to ruin and/or better the game.
  • X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear
    X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,301 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    For me, there hasn't been a problem with the ticketing system. Yes you get the automated to say it's been received, but I've had nice GM input in everything from my bans to quest glitchs to high pings. Guess it's a hit and miss for people and I have been lucky.

    Am I right in believing this game has less GM/Mods than other games of similar sizes?

    Don't mean to defend them, but they do play the game too (GM's), and want the same fixes you do. It's the corporate management that calls the shots, GMs have to comply or they lose their jobs basically.



    What is more worrying is it's doubtful there will ever be a level cap increase in my opinion. These rank, rep and pack sales can only go on so long before general interest starts to dwindle, and they notice slight losses on what they were expecting for the quarter. Would they release "better" packs? Rank X? More?

    Rank 9 already broke the game, being far to overpowered for the level it is achieved at, and with the ease it is gained.


    In their heart of hearts, of course they don't want the game to go under. They want it to be the best, longest living F2P MMO that will ever exist. But their greed is blinding them to the point PWI is starting to wilt ...
  • Ikarium - Dreamweaver
    Ikarium - Dreamweaver Posts: 631 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    -When serious questions arise, no one from PWE will answer them
    -CM is MIA on weekends (as w/ all PWE's staff), and on the weekdays, they don't do much
    -Tickets are automated responses 99% of the time
    This is not always true. I had a pretty serious problem this very weekend. I submitted a ticket late Friday night. I got an automated response on Saturday morning sometime. Then I had an actual response and the issue resolved by Sunday morning.

    I'm not saying other people don't have bad experiences. But all of the times where I have had to submit a ticket, I've had timely and helpful responses.
  • JSXJoe - Sanctuary
    JSXJoe - Sanctuary Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    What I'd rly like to see is a pk even with NPC gears, nothing more. Just sometimes where ppl could actually have fun and fight out whos the "best" not the one with best gear, but stuff like that would completely destroy PWE way of earning money...making ppl upset of being little rats compared to those heavy cash Shoppers which animates them to do the same as those...surely its annoying to get killed by such ppl and being unable to do even the least against it, but I guess thats the way this game lives.

    We can't even try to change things here for player that actually "play" this game, that made this game fun and worth playing...those ppl are endangered species and are about to go to zero and what then =? what uses it to you PWE if your strong playerbase is gone and the only ones left are your precious cash Shoppers which will be bored cuz they cant rolfpwn anyone cuz noone's left =? xD

    Keep squeesing the money out of this game til its dead, when Tera releases in Europe and or Blade and Soul or indictus I'm gone. Always loved the community in F2P games at the beginning of a game...but sooner or later its filled up with nasty greedy ppl and the publishers are just unable to resist he possibility of earning money at all costs.
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  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    This is not always true. I had a pretty serious problem this very weekend. I submitted a ticket late Friday night. I got an automated response on Saturday morning sometime. Then I had an actual response and the issue resolved by Sunday morning.

    I'm not saying other people don't have bad experiences. But all of the times where I have had to submit a ticket, I've had timely and helpful responses.

    Well, I mean... Of course, it's not always true. I have personally sent about 20 tickets since I started playing PWI, a few years back. Mind you, I have two 100+ toons that I've been playing since early 2009, so I've had my fair share of problems in-game. Most tickets I sent, we're automated. I have received two responses from what appeared to be a human-like person, both stating my name, and giving me the information I seek, regarding the problem(s).

    The other times, I would get "robot" responses. Not stating anything specific, stating the same thing in several tickets (word for word, as if copy/pasted into the ticket), and not solving the issue. When I would push the ticket further, but denying each response, giving my reasons, etc... After enough denies, they would just close the ticket.

    So, when I say 99% of the time my tickets have been automated, this is what I'm referring too. Statistically, I believe the "real" percentage would be 90% of the time my tickets have been automated, and 10% (2/20), they have been human-like responses.

    That's just the ticketing system ofc. When I refer to PWE having many issues, I'm talking about the entire game as well. The fact that GMs don't exist in-game anymore, like once in the past. The countless exploits, and glitches. The unfixed bugs since beta (which by the way, the game never technically came out of "beta"). The poor support in-game, on the forums, and via tickets. The list goes on.

    Hoping to get some good player to player discussion going on. :)
  • RosangeIa - Heavens Tear
    RosangeIa - Heavens Tear Posts: 240 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Eh yeah, I've been around since October '08, so I've seen my fair share of glitches and whatnot too. It never really bothered me up until the game really just became a cash cow to them which I guess is inevitable. At least the good thing about it is that the community is usually helpful and if you find good factions you're pretty much set. I guess the thing that's always disappointed me is PWE's nearly complete lack of care for a lot of the issues brought up to them. Sure they're good at responding to some problems if they can fix it immediately. I remember having a few such issues with my first account and they always replied and helped me out rather quickly. But when it comes to bugs that affect the entire game like the censorship issue and things like that, that are pretty much game breaking for a lot of people (even those not affected directly are still affected), I think their response time is... well, lazy and disorganized. Instead they think they can just keep releasing sale after sale, usually packs of some kind, to rake in more money while seeming to ignore the more important things. If the game is broken somehow, what makes them think that folks will stick around that long? I've pretty much left (again) myself because of their complete lack of attention to the issues that really matter here. I was willing to give them benefit of the doubt because they did have the new EU server coming up and I know they wanted to be sure it'd go smoothly but... now that it's been a few weeks I would have thought by now they'd have been able to implement a fix.

    Sort of going off topic but... overall I really believe their service could be far better. Just because not every player is a paying customer doesn't mean they don't deserve the same service as a paying customer. If they show great care in fixing things that are broken who knows, the players who don't currently spend money may spend money later if they see how well they're treated here. Just like any service, PWI shouldn't be any exception to the rule.

    I hope your topic isn't closed, since I think it does need to be discussed. I think the only reason they close topics like this are because they don't want to look bad to potentially new customers. But honestly once someone has hung around the game even for a week or two, they will begin to see some of the many things going wrong here.

    As much as I honestly loved this game especially back in 08/early 09, it just... isn't the same anymore. It's lost that special something. I miss when GMs weren't a thing of the past, they were actually allowed some freedom (like those lovely new day greetings I remember and special little things like that). I miss when they really cared about us lol. Just seems like the bosses have told everyone to shut up and keep putting up the new sales to rake in more cash. it just seems like they're very short sighted now. It's a wonder how this game has lived as long as it has given all of these factors (counting previous versions of PW in China/Malaysia etc).
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  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Just because not every player is a paying customer doesn't mean they don't deserve the same service as a paying customer. If they show great care in fixing things that are broken who knows, the players who don't currently spend money may spend money later if they see how well they're treated here. Just like any service, PWI shouldn't be any exception to the rule.
    .

    +1.

    Good point of view
    Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle
  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Eh yeah, I've been around since October '08, so I've seen my fair share of glitches and whatnot too. It never really bothered me up until the game really just became a cash cow to them which I guess is inevitable. At least the good thing about it is that the community is usually helpful and if you find good factions you're pretty much set. I guess the thing that's always disappointed me is PWE's nearly complete lack of care for a lot of the issues brought up to them. Sure they're good at responding to some problems if they can fix it immediately. I remember having a few such issues with my first account and they always replied and helped me out rather quickly. But when it comes to bugs that affect the entire game like the censorship issue and things like that, that are pretty much game breaking for a lot of people (even those not affected directly are still affected), I think their response time is... well, lazy and disorganized. Instead they think they can just keep releasing sale after sale, usually packs of some kind, to rake in more money while seeming to ignore the more important things. If the game is broken somehow, what makes them think that folks will stick around that long? I've pretty much left (again) myself because of their complete lack of attention to the issues that really matter here. I was willing to give them benefit of the doubt because they did have the new EU server coming up and I know they wanted to be sure it'd go smoothly but... now that it's been a few weeks I would have thought by now they'd have been able to implement a fix.

    Sort of going off topic but... overall I really believe their service could be far better. Just because not every player is a paying customer doesn't mean they don't deserve the same service as a paying customer. If they show great care in fixing things that are broken who knows, the players who don't currently spend money may spend money later if they see how well they're treated here. Just like any service, PWI shouldn't be any exception to the rule.

    I hope your topic isn't closed, since I think it does need to be discussed. I think the only reason they close topics like this are because they don't want to look bad to potentially new customers. But honestly once someone has hung around the game even for a week or two, they will begin to see some of the many things going wrong here.

    As much as I honestly loved this game especially back in 08/early 09, it just... isn't the same anymore. It's lost that special something. I miss when GMs weren't a thing of the past, they were actually allowed some freedom (like those lovely new day greetings I remember and special little things like that). I miss when they really cared about us lol. Just seems like the bosses have told everyone to shut up and keep putting up the new sales to rake in more cash. it just seems like they're very short sighted now. It's a wonder how this game has lived as long as it has given all of these factors (counting previous versions of PW in China/Malaysia etc).

    Something that I have learned in my life, is if you run a company or corporation, you should treat each customer fairly and with respect. If they are browsing the game, or playing it freely, the company should treat the player as a potential customer, and want to give them everything they could ever want, so that they in return will see profit.

    I hope this topic isn't closed, as well. It could serve as a reference for GMs to see why the players are so upset with issues around here, and ways for them to give the players what they want, as this is their company's flag ship game after all.

    ...Though, you'd have to hope that they cared enough to actually take what players say to heart, and get the issues resolved. Which, in all honesty... I don't see them doing it, as they had the ability to do so years ago, and still haven't.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Companies don't need to respect the customers anymore. The broadness of that certainly goes into F2P MMO's as well.

    Consider the history of business and marketing over the last century, and how QA/QC/CS, and quality of product was the maxim of selling products and customer relations spoke for itself as far as product brands/advertisements go. Now look at where business expenditures lie -- the emphasis is staggeringly one-sided in favour of marketing.. and QA/QC/CS, quality backing of a product, is virtually non-existent. Sadly, it works wonders.

    People have decided they will buy into marketing of products, PW has decided that this version only need be half-assed developed and that's sufficient to get a bunch of cash shoppers as long as they keep bringing out stuff that makes specific players want to cash shop. That's the way it is, and that's why PWI gets not a cent more until it changes, which I presume is never.

    If the playerbase wants respect in the manner desired the playerbase collectively has to stop paying. The publishing done in California is unfortunately handcuffed. When submitting tickets and asking for GM help they generally are decent, but the hindrance is both their developers abroad and those they (and the general manager who runs the CA office) answer to in China. Don't mean to sound cynical but this is really all you are going to get, so enjoy the game for what a mess it is, and then move on to greener pastures.
  • Jay_Dubbz - Lost City
    Jay_Dubbz - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Companies don't need to respect the customers anymore. The broadness of that certainly goes into F2P MMO's as well.

    Consider the history of business and marketing over the last century, and how QA/QC/CS, and quality of product was the maxim of selling products and customer relations spoke for itself as far as product brands/advertisements go. Now look at where business expenditures lie -- the emphasis is staggeringly one-sided in favour of marketing.. and QA/QC/CS, quality backing of a product, is virtually non-existent. Sadly, it works wonders.

    People have decided they will buy into marketing of products, PW has decided that this version only need be half-assed developed and that's sufficient to get a bunch of cash shoppers as long as they keep bringing out stuff that makes specific players want to cash shop. That's the way it is, and that's why PWI gets not a cent more until it changes, which I presume is never.

    If the playerbase wants respect in the manner desired the playerbase collectively has to stop paying. The publishing done in California is unfortunately handcuffed. When submitting tickets and asking for GM help they generally are decent, but the hindrance is both their developers abroad and those they (and the general manager who runs the CA office) answer to in China. Don't mean to sound cynical but this is really all you are going to get, so enjoy the game for what a mess it is, and then move on to greener pastures.

    Exactly, they treat the players bad mostly because the players here just accept all the **** that pwe dishes out. They complain then go right back on to playing and charging zen. Its actually pretty sick that players allow this. It's like players here doesn't even know what good customer support and care is in an mmo game.

    If PWE decided to come out with super packs that guaranteed a rare item instead of token, people would complain this go right back to playing.

    If PWE never fixes the censor problem, people will continue to complain then go right back to playing.

    If PWE puts rank 9 gear directly in the cash shop, people would complain then go right back to playing.

    If guild base wars never get put into the game, people will complain then go right back to playing.

    Really, in the players' eyes PWE can do no wrong -__-
  • OIdpop - Heavens Tear
    OIdpop - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    yeah this is kinda like complaining about oil/fuel cost..not going to workb:bye
    This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
    Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.
  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Companies don't need to respect the customers anymore. The broadness of that certainly goes into F2P MMO's as well.

    Consider the history of business and marketing over the last century, and how QA/QC/CS, and quality of product was the maxim of selling products and customer relations spoke for itself as far as product brands/advertisements go. Now look at where business expenditures lie -- the emphasis is staggeringly one-sided in favour of marketing.. and QA/QC/CS, quality backing of a product, is virtually non-existent. Sadly, it works wonders.

    People have decided they will buy into marketing of products, PW has decided that this version only need be half-assed developed and that's sufficient to get a bunch of cash shoppers as long as they keep bringing out stuff that makes specific players want to cash shop. That's the way it is, and that's why PWI gets not a cent more until it changes, which I presume is never.

    If the playerbase wants respect in the manner desired the playerbase collectively has to stop paying. The publishing done in California is unfortunately handcuffed. When submitting tickets and asking for GM help they generally are decent, but the hindrance is both their developers abroad and those they (and the general manager who runs the CA office) answer to in China. Don't mean to sound cynical but this is really all you are going to get, so enjoy the game for what a mess it is, and then move on to greener pastures.

    I completely agree. Though, I am more looking to discuss in-game issues, and what not. I don't plan in the near future to quit for a better game (there are plenty out there, I just feel the want to continue w/ this one). But yes, if the GMs here won't listen to the players concerns, and the "real" people behind the game are in China, there isn't much more that can be done via the players end.

    Exactly, they treat the players bad mostly because the players here just accept all the **** that pwe dishes out. They complain then go right back on to playing and charging zen. Its actually pretty sick that players allow this. It's like players here doesn't even know what good customer support and care is in an mmo game.

    If PWE decided to come out with super packs that guaranteed a rare item instead of token, people would complain this go right back to playing.

    If PWE never fixes the censor problem, people will continue to complain then go right back to playing.

    If PWE puts rank 9 gear directly in the cash shop, people would complain then go right back to playing.

    If guild base wars never get put into the game, people will complain then go right back to playing.

    Really, in the players' eyes PWE can do no wrong -__-

    I do agree, yes. It seems that a lot of the player in-game fall into this:
    -They believe it's a game, so why "cry" about it
    -They believe the game won't be fixed if they stop buying/CSing, so they continue
    -They enjoy CS'ing, and buying stuff; Don't plan to complain
    -They have complained in the past via tickets/forums, but to no avail, so they have given up hope
    -They would rather not deal with complaining, but they know the issues

    Even if everyone stopped playing this game, stopped paying, stopped everything, and just complained via forums/tickets... Would the issues be taken seriously? I personally doubt it, but then again, ya never know. PWE seems to base all their games on profit, so hypothetically if the profit dwindled down to zilch, would they care? It's a solid question, I suppose.
    yeah this is kinda like complaining about oil/fuel cost..not going to workb:bye

    Another true point, though you are only slightly correct. In my above response (in this post), I made a hypothetical question. If enough players brought the complains up, would the issues be solved?

    In the past Horns we're taken out of our version's Boutique due to complaints via forums. Though, they we're never taken out of the client itself, and later we're brought into those stash boxes.

    We also we're given compensation for DQ prices being dropped... Though, it took 7 months.

    Also the timers for specific instances have been changed in our version to help our players, when enough concern was brought to the table. Though, because it's specific to our version, every few major patches resets this timer in the client files, and must be fixed. (TT timer)

    Lastly Duke has been shut up, which is specific to our version due to the constant complaints via forums (and probably tickets). Though, like the timers -- every few major patches, this change is shifted back, and must be fixed in the client files in another patch.

    Some things haven't been changed, even though people have been complaining about 'em day one... Packs, FF glitch, etc.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I completely agree. Though, I am more looking to discuss in-game issues, and what not. I don't plan in the near future to quit for a better game (there are plenty out there, I just feel the want to continue w/ this one). But yes, if the GMs here won't listen to the players concerns, and the "real" people behind the game are in China, there isn't much more that can be done via the players end.
    This isn't true. The GM's that are here, and from PWI in CA do care and do listen to complaints. When you see GM's doing in-game events or see GM's completing a cultivation quest for someone, these are people who can get stuff done quickly.

    Unfortunately for players the obstacle faced is for anything concerning development the people in the California office bow to Chinese developers, and without a doubt their Chinese HQ (Co. Ltd -- Beijing), which oversees PWE (Entertainment -- California) dictates and has the final say in the what/when/where/how of development. This is non-standard in the game industry, for a developer to run the publisher instead of vice versa, but this is highly prominent in the F2P industry where North American publishers/subsidiaries/whatever you personally feel like calling them are not the ones overseeing local development. When this occurs, ongoing content fails, which is something asian developers and parent companies of F2P MMO's have yet to figure out.

    The people who work in the CA office are, I'm sure, stretched out as to what work they do, and beyond that, are severely limited and micro-managed by their parent company as to what they do, which is why they keep having to run any major changes by them. Others have pointed out, which is a plausible explanation as well, that the developers making changes to content now were not the developers that originally made the game, which explains why they break so much **** the more involved with the game they get.

    You and I can whine til our fingers run out of steam from typing, can yell at them on the phone til our vocal cords explode, but that won't change something that they, themselves, cannot change. It doesn't mean don't complain, just don't expect something they cannot do.
  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    This isn't true. The GM's that are here, and from PWI in CA do care and do listen to complaints. When you see GM's doing in-game events or see GM's completing a cultivation quest for someone, these are people who can get stuff done quickly.

    Unfortunately for players the obstacle faced is for anything concerning development the people in the California office bow to Chinese developers, and without a doubt their Chinese HQ (Co. Ltd -- Beijing), which oversees PWE (Entertainment -- California) dictates and has the final say in the what/when/where/how of development. This is non-standard in the game industry, for a developer to run the publisher instead of vice versa, but this is highly prominent in the F2P industry where North American publishers/subsidiaries/whatever you personally feel like calling them are not the ones overseeing local development. When this occurs, ongoing content fails, which is something asian developers and parent companies of F2P MMO's have yet to figure out.

    The people who work in the CA office are, I'm sure, stretched out as to what work they do, and beyond that, are severely limited and micro-managed by their parent company as to what they do, which is why they keep having to run any major changes by them. Others have pointed out, which is a plausible explanation as well, that the developers making changes to content now were not the developers that originally made the game, which explains why they break so much **** the more involved with the game they get.

    You and I can whine til our fingers run out of steam from typing, can yell at them on the phone til our vocal cords explode, but that won't change something that they, themselves, cannot change. It doesn't mean don't complain, just don't expect something they cannot do.

    Yeah, I know. I agree with ya on every part. Apparently "Archosaur Studio" was the original developing company in China. After creating most of what the original game was, they we're bought out by Wanmei. After that, most of the original developers apparently quit.

    It's quite possible that you are in fact right -- PWE might be doing all they can with the resources that are given to them. Though, it still doesn't quite fit all together. PWE controls Boutique sales and translations for our version of the game. If they control Boutique sales, then they in fact are hurting the in-game economy by what they have personally done to the game.

    It also begs the question, why are they given so little resources and privileges, that they can't fix a simple client-side issue like the censor filter... Yet, I can do it in under three minutes on my PC. I surely don't know this game's files that well -- I'm only a player, not a developer.

    Is it possible that the lack of communication, CM responses, in-game support, forums support, and ticketing support, is due to lack of staff on PWE's end? Maybe they aren't allowed to have more staff for these departments... Hell if I know, lol.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Something that I have learned in my life, is if you run a company or corporation, you should treat each customer fairly and with respect. If they are browsing the game, or playing it freely, the company should treat the player as a potential customer, and want to give them everything they could ever want, so that they in return will see profit.

    I hope this topic isn't closed, as well. It could serve as a reference for GMs to see why the players are so upset with issues around here, and ways for them to give the players what they want, as this is their company's flag ship game after all.

    ...Though, you'd have to hope that they cared enough to actually take what players say to heart, and get the issues resolved. Which, in all honesty... I don't see them doing it, as they had the ability to do so years ago, and still haven't.
    This.



    I haven't spent a dime on this game. Spending money on PWI basically allows you to unlock god mode. By spending money you can become a factor overnight.


    Yet I've spent money on LoL. Spending money doesn't unlock any form of god mode. You can't beat someone whose better than you just because you spent more. It's pretty much cosmetic changes. You can get more champs or so but they're very easy to unlock without spending money since by the time you really get the hang of one you'll have enough IP to unlock another. 90% of the money I've spent there goes entirely to skins, which are purely cosmetic and don't give any advantage.


    So why did I spend money there instead of here, when there I got nothing but an improved look on my champs and here I could have god mode and **** everyone?


    Because their company actually gives a damn. You actively see their GMs responding to customer issues. The developers constantly seek to balance the game and make it more fun. Balancing is done almost every week. It doesn't exist here. On PWI I can list at least 10 bugs that have been around for a year or more. On LoL I'll read the patch notes and see 5 different bugs that I didn't even know about have been fixed.


    PWI just gives you the sense of wondering, just what the hell are our GMs and Developers doing? Because NOTHING is being done. The game is stagnant, there are no changes except new cash shop sales.


    New content is EXTREMELY rare and when we do get it, incredibly mediocre and half assed. Bug fixes just do not exist at all. No feedback is given to the community, EVER. 4


    I spend my money on the company that will actually put it to good use.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Aeyisha - Lost City
    Aeyisha - Lost City Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Eh yeah, I've been around since October '08, so I've seen my fair share of glitches and whatnot too. It never really bothered me up until the game really just became a cash cow to them which I guess is inevitable. At least the good thing about it is that the community is usually helpful and if you find good factions you're pretty much set. I guess the thing that's always disappointed me is PWE's nearly complete lack of care for a lot of the issues brought up to them. Sure they're good at responding to some problems if they can fix it immediately. I remember having a few such issues with my first account and they always replied and helped me out rather quickly. But when it comes to bugs that affect the entire game like the censorship issue and things like that, that are pretty much game breaking for a lot of people (even those not affected directly are still affected), I think their response time is... well, lazy and disorganized. Instead they think they can just keep releasing sale after sale, usually packs of some kind, to rake in more money while seeming to ignore the more important things. If the game is broken somehow, what makes them think that folks will stick around that long? I've pretty much left (again) myself because of their complete lack of attention to the issues that really matter here. I was willing to give them benefit of the doubt because they did have the new EU server coming up and I know they wanted to be sure it'd go smoothly but... now that it's been a few weeks I would have thought by now they'd have been able to implement a fix.

    Sort of going off topic but... overall I really believe their service could be far better. Just because not every player is a paying customer doesn't mean they don't deserve the same service as a paying customer. If they show great care in fixing things that are broken who knows, the players who don't currently spend money may spend money later if they see how well they're treated here. Just like any service, PWI shouldn't be any exception to the rule.

    I hope your topic isn't closed, since I think it does need to be discussed. I think the only reason they close topics like this are because they don't want to look bad to potentially new customers. But honestly once someone has hung around the game even for a week or two, they will begin to see some of the many things going wrong here.

    As much as I honestly loved this game especially back in 08/early 09, it just... isn't the same anymore. It's lost that special something. I miss when GMs weren't a thing of the past, they were actually allowed some freedom (like those lovely new day greetings I remember and special little things like that). I miss when they really cared about us lol. Just seems like the bosses have told everyone to shut up and keep putting up the new sales to rake in more cash. it just seems like they're very short sighted now. It's a wonder how this game has lived as long as it has given all of these factors (counting previous versions of PW in China/Malaysia etc).

    I remember you!
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  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    This.



    I haven't spent a dime on this game. Spending money on PWI basically allows you to unlock god mode. By spending money you can become a factor overnight.


    Yet I've spent money on LoL. Spending money doesn't unlock any form of god mode. You can't beat someone whose better than you just because you spent more. It's pretty much cosmetic changes. You can get more champs or so but they're very easy to unlock without spending money since by the time you really get the hang of one you'll have enough IP to unlock another. 90% of the money I've spent there goes entirely to skins, which are purely cosmetic and don't give any advantage.


    So why did I spend money there instead of here, when there I got nothing but an improved look on my champs and here I could have god mode and **** everyone?


    Because their company actually gives a damn. You actively see their GMs responding to customer issues. The developers constantly seek to balance the game and make it more fun. Balancing is done almost every week. It doesn't exist here. On PWI I can list at least 10 bugs that have been around for a year or more. On LoL I'll read the patch notes and see 5 different bugs that I didn't even know about have been fixed.


    PWI just gives you the sense of wondering, just what the hell are our GMs and Developers doing? Because NOTHING is being done. The game is stagnant, there are no changes except new cash shop sales.


    New content is EXTREMELY rare and when we do get it, incredibly mediocre and half assed. Bug fixes just do not exist at all. No feedback is given to the community, EVER. 4


    I spend my money on the company that will actually put it to good use.

    Yep, agreed. I'd put my cash somewhere I know it's being used for good. My best guess is our money here is used to finance expensive real life things, like 100k cars and what not. Though, I'm betting that like 90% of the profit PWE makes off of PWI, is sent back to PW-CN's company "Wanmei", where they use the money on female models for various PWI related events and activities. Lol, if ya ever get a chance to check PW-CN's news page, the last ten news posts have been about female PWI models, showing off PWI suits, lol.
  • Ruli - Heavens Tear
    Ruli - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    OK im not going to defend PWi or anything im just going to give a hint as to how a games company can really make the game an community happy through past experiences.

    Before I played PW I was a very active member of a world war 2 flight sim community. Yes its a very specialised games market.

    The sim its self was released over 10 years ago, It was state of the art then and in all honesty its still the best World war 2 flight sim in pixel land

    It started out rather small, an the game engine had forward compatibilty an scalability out the wazzoo. It was re released after a year or 3 needing slightly more powerful PC to run.

    New theaters too fly around, new planes to fly. Bug fixes on a regular basis with free patches that often included alot of new content building on the base product all the time.

    Yes it wasnt perfect, far from it, it had its bugs and its flaws. But the company tried its best too listen to the community and work with it. The commuity re payed the company back with loyalty to the produce and it thrived, They just recently release yet another patch with new content an more bug fixes so this old game is continuing to thrive very long past its sell by date.

    PW you too can live by this model.
  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    OK im not going to defend PWi or anything im just going to give a hint as to how a games company can really make the game an community happy through past experiences.

    Before I played PW I was a very active member of a world war 2 flight sim community. Yes its a very specialised games market.

    The sim its self was released over 10 years ago, It was state of the art then and in all honesty its still the best World war 2 flight sim in pixel land

    It started out rather small, an the game engine had forward compatibilty an scalability out the wazzoo. It was re released after a year or 3 needing slightly more powerful PC to run.

    New theaters too fly around, new planes to fly. Bug fixes on a regular basis with free patches that often included alot of new content building on the base product all the time.

    Yes it wasnt perfect, far from it, it had its bugs and its flaws. But the company tried its best too listen to the community and work with it. The commuity re payed the company back with loyalty to the produce and it thrived, They just recently release yet another patch with new content an more bug fixes so this old game is continuing to thrive very long past its sell by date.

    PW you too can live by this model.

    I'm pretty sure that's every PWI player's dream/wish. So many other games listen to the community and player base. You would think PWI would, because it's PWE's flag ship game, but alas this doesn't happen.
  • Zenorx - Harshlands
    Zenorx - Harshlands Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Something in this game needs to change.

    And regarding bug fixes, I suspect that the real reason they never get fixed is because no one knows how. PW is an older game, most likely, the devs that made it were replaced with devs less knowlegable but requiring less pay once the game was actuly built.

    I believe this is why we see mostly cosmetic changes to the game, genesis and tb areas were always in the game, but not unlocked and they had no actual stuff in them, they were just empty land.

    Yeah I believe the lack of bug fixes is possibly not because they don't care but because in their own greed the got rid of the devs that wrote the game and the current devs dont know how...
  • Tiageos - Sanctuary
    Tiageos - Sanctuary Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Many games have survived like this. Even Meridian59 is still around. (First 3-D MMORPG) The only real question is who will own and support PWI in ten years. PWE is most likely looking at the future outlook on a annual or bi-annual basis, there isn't any point on projecting further than that. They'll always go with what makes money today; and today, what they are doing is working.
  • LilNai - Harshlands
    LilNai - Harshlands Posts: 481 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    When things happen, there is a cycle of communication. The people receiving our complaints and issues through tickets are not necessarily the ones making the decisions, but instead are support staff.

    Some tickets need to be escalated, and this filter issue as well as the FC Dragon glitch, need to be discussed.

    Here meet the supervisors of the IT staff, depending upon the situation their supervisors and of course the IT Staff and support. They have to discuss, think through the issue and look for a viable solution, or work around, if possible, then it has to be tested, demonstrated, approved and a rollout time/date selected.

    You also need to consider how much they can do to their out-of-the-box program, where are the lines?

    Then you have to work around schedule conflicts and etc... fun fun stuff.


    I don't see it as 'they do not care' as much as 'do they know the depth' of some of these issues from our stand point. I seriously think they need volunteer GM's to play the game, and report back issues they find.

    As far as I know, they advertise 1 million players. Thats 1 million people testing the game and reporting the bugs constantly. IF that doesnt help them fix anything, wtf will their GMs (Who largely suck or dont know what they are doing, no offence) do to make a difference?
  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    The way I see it, a ticket can fall into one of four categories.

    1) Noob QQ - In this section, you get people who got pk'd or something. They think they are god and could not have possibly have lost or have no idea what skills do. I dueled another sin on mine and he QQ for like 5 mins because my tidal protection made him do 1 damage. Thought I used a pot. What sin doesn't understand their own skill. Anyway, ranting aside, people may submit this type of ticket for almost anything. Note that this includes alleged "hacking" where the person really just gave their pw to someone else.

    This is a useless ticket and clogs up the help desk. I have heard these are the most common tickets too.

    2) Glitch/Programming errors - These are things that Wanmei must address. As we all know, they beat to a different drum over there. The odds of physicist finding the Higgs Boson is higher than most of these getting worked out.

    Once again, this has become a useless ticket.

    3) Cash shop concerns - This involves PWE's bottom line as this is where they make money. These complaints involve packs, r9, and most recently guardian charms. People are asking here for sales to go away or for things to be cheaper or more accessible. Although we may be able to successfully argue this amongst ourselves, whatever system PWE has now is working. Why would they risk changing it?


    Again, these will go unanswered or ignored.

    4) Real glitchers/hackers and PWE related queries - This will involve violations of ToS like dragoon glitching, real hacking, and the like. It also involves cosmetic changes that PWE is comfortable making. This includes shutting Duke up, removing horns, etc. If they do not have to go into the code to fix something and it does not fall into any other category, a query will come here.

    These are things that PWE can do something about. The rest are garbage the way the company is set up.

    Odds are, that if your question does not fall into category 4, you will most likely receive no more than an automated response. Also worth noting, GMs do not work 24/7 (I have heard it's 9-5 M-F). If you submit a ticket outside of this time, you will get no response right away.

    I do not work for the company, but am sympathetic to the help ticket cause. If people would stop submitting tickets that the GM's can do nothing about, we could get more real help on here. Would you really want to read through walls of QQ and then still be open to helping with real tickets?