Pure Pure Vit

BigFIuffy - Archosaur
BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
edited July 2011 in Barbarian
My barb runs a very very obscure build that i wanted to know your guys thoughts on.



I've become very inactive on this server due to frustration with the open world pk atm in Perfect World. However i still come to most of the Territory Wars on my server. Since then i gave my barb a Pan gu axe put him at 252 strength and was pretty bad in pk. After i gave him the pan gu i gave up with pk on my barb and made a bm for pking and farming. My barb still held more hp then most of the server and i always a catabarb for the top factions.

When the rank sale came out i thought it was hilarious they made r8 cost 72$ and did not think much of it. Then i realized that the rank 8 armor has no strength of dexterity requirements. This was the basis of my new build i worked on. The build takes being a useless buff ***** and a cata puller to the max. I brought my Strength down to 117 for my warsong helmet, threw some rank 8 armor on, some lvl 42 npc boots, a lvl 41 mold Xeno Sledgehammer (lol). The result seems to have worked for me. I increased my hp by around 3500 hp since i gave myself 135 more vit. Questions came up about how i was able to keep my resistances in check. Vitality gives a little bit of resistance, while putting on the rank gear and its extremely high bases made up for the rest.

This build was made under the idea that

1. My barb is only for Territory War and Buffing in PVE.
2. You do not cashshop much you can get equal hp with better refines on better gear easily. (Also the lvl 40 gear hardly gives any health per refine, although at +12 both builds cap at around 45k hp)

Ill add a picture of the gear i currently wear shortly.

http://pwcalc.com/494f22ee62597da2 Before i changed my build

http://pwcalc.com/3f9c363de6a46f2c After i changed my build

Both are fully buffed

Stats: Before i have 24.5k hp and i take 85 and 60% reduced damage
Stats: After i have 27k hp and i take 83% and a combination of 58,59, and 60% reduced damage
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Post edited by BigFIuffy - Archosaur on
«1

Comments

  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    all I can say is lol. whatever floats your boat son, and if you can stay alive w/ the lack of mdef from the magic users. gratz to you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    read my post again the rank 8 fixes up the lack of m def from my boots and wrists
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    R8 or not. HA doesn't give much mdef. at all.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    It actually has identical mdef/hp with full r9. The only problem is it has half the defense levels of a full r9. This would work better in a version without attack/defense levels, excluding private servers because of 20+ vit stones.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    my point you still LACK mdef. unless what are his ornaments.?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OontzOontz - Dreamweaver
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    my point you still LACK mdef. unless what are his ornaments.?

    You are overestimating the amount of mdef HA boots and wrists give. Stop being lazy and use pwcalc.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    OontzOontz - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You are overestimating the amount of mdef HA boots and wrists give. Stop being lazy and use pwcalc.

    he doesnt even wear tt90/tt99 HA wrists/feet and i do and i still sit with 2.9k w/o def orns. is 2.9k unbuffed gonna do anything vs magic users? no.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    R8 or not. HA doesn't give much mdef. at all.

    Wait what? How can i change the fact that HA does not give much magic defense? That would be a problem if i had a normal build? I am comparing my build to that of normal barbs builds. So for you to say that heavy armor does not give much magic defense i do not understand.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    Wait what? How can i change the fact that HA does not give much magic defense? That would be a problem if i had a normal build? I am comparing my build to that of normal barbs builds. So for you to say that heavy armor does not give much magic defense i do not understand.

    with you not having STRENGTH/DEX points that are NEEDED to WEAR TT99/NIRVANA wrists/feet, you LACK the MDEF that is GIVEN from them. with you only wearing lvl41 wrists and feet, you are given LESS mdef from the already LITTLE amount of mdef GIVEN from TT99/NIRVANA HA.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    is that so hard to understand ?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    i added perfect world Calc of my before and after.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zaibeast - Archosaur
    Zaibeast - Archosaur Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    with you not having STRENGTH/DEX points that are NEEDED to WEAR TT99/NIRVANA wrists/feet, you LACK the MDEF that is GIVEN from them. with you only wearing lvl41 wrists and feet, you are given LESS mdef from the already LITTLE amount of mdef GIVEN from TT99/NIRVANA HA.

    The point was, how to maximize your barb, WITHOUT cashshopping or spending hours on end to farm gear, PURELY for TW and lol buffing.

    If you compare his two links, his original build had around 6k MDEF fully-buffed and his recent build has on average 5.5k MDEF.

    Yup, 500 mdef makes a HUGE difference b:chuckle Plus Mdef, isn't all that great nowadays. The amount of Attack level the heaviest DDs have is insane and can literally one or two shot a barb with full TT99 gear and sitting around 25k hp.
  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Zaibeast - Archosaur wrote: »
    The point was, how to maximize your barb, WITHOUT cashshopping or spending hours on end to farm gear, PURELY for TW and lol buffing.

    If you compare his two links, his original build had around 6k MDEF fully-buffed and his recent build has on average 5.5k MDEF.

    Yup, 500 mdef makes a HUGE difference b:chuckle Plus Mdef, isn't all that great nowadays. The amount of Attack level the heaviest DDs have is insane and can literally one or two shot a barb with full TT99 gear and sitting around 25k hp.

    losing 500 mdef and over 4k pdef for that pure tw build. is not worth it. i dont care who you are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zaibeast - Archosaur
    Zaibeast - Archosaur Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    losing 500 mdef and over 4k pdef for that pure tw build. is not worth it. i dont care who you are.

    **sigh** another idiot that thinks only about the pdef/mdef number and not what it actually means.

    First one had 23,346 pdef with a 85% reduction damage from a lvl 101
    Second one had 19,823 pdef with a 83% reduction damage from a lvl 101

    Oh wow 2% is a big a$$ difference lmfao! I guess an extra 3.5k doesn't cover up that insanely huge gap in damage reduction.

    Here's the mdef difference.
    First build has 6020 mdef with a 60% damage reduction
    Second build has 5577 with a 58% damage reduction

    OH Sheit there's that 2% difference again.

    Uhmm I'd rather pick the 3.5k hp gain over the 2% difference in damage reduction in both pdef and mdef. b:bye
  • Dagnatic - Sanctuary
    Dagnatic - Sanctuary Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Next he'll be saying that the damage is **** and its not worth it...I I cant remember the last time i saw i Cata Barb attack another player... the extra 3.5k is worth it, you dont have to like his build, his not even saying you have to like it, he's just informing you on a odd build his discovered that seems to be working for him.

    So stop QQing about how you dont like it, if you dont like it, then dont use it your self. let the poor kitty be...

    I find this rather interesting...

    nice build btw, cant imagine what would happen if you cam across enough money to do this (see link bellow)... then that'd be a build to look at...
    nice job

    http://pwcalc.com/bcf8847c3e633080

    But i dare say it'd be expensive vit stones dont come cheap, and neither do refines.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Zaibeast - Archosaur wrote: »
    **sigh** another idiot that thinks only about the pdef/mdef number and not what it actually means.

    First one had 23,346 pdef with a 85% reduction damage from a lvl 101
    Second one had 19,823 pdef with a 83% reduction damage from a lvl 101

    Oh wow 2% is a big a$$ difference lmfao! I guess an extra 3.5k doesn't cover up that insanely huge gap in damage reduction.

    Here's the mdef difference.
    First build has 6020 mdef with a 60% damage reduction
    Second build has 5577 with a 58% damage reduction

    OH Sheit there's that 2% difference again.

    Uhmm I'd rather pick the 3.5k hp gain over the 2% difference in damage reduction in both pdef and mdef. b:bye

    Welcome to math. If you are taking 15% dmg then change your gear to take 17% damage thats over a 13% damage increase. For mdef you go from taking 40% dmg to 42% dmg that's a 5% increase.

    And 27055 is only 2476 more hp than 24579, not 3.5k... Thats a 10% increase.
    **sigh** another idiot that... Loved the condesending tone in your post when you fail at basic elementary level math.

    So basically you'll survive magic damage better because of your bigger hp pool but your hp pool isn't enough to compensate your physical defense loss. You'll also be harder to heal because hp will be removed faster. All in all its a toss-up and depends more on what is actually happening in the tw but I like the original build better. More vitality doesn't mean anything when your hp falls off so quick.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    The original build would give more hp long term with higher refines. Its not like +7 is hard to get.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The original build would give more hp long term with higher refines. Its not like +7 is hard to get.

    I don't cashshop, barbs are useless, the money i do have goes to my seeker and sin.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Welcome to math. If you are taking 15% dmg then change your gear to take 17% damage thats over a 13% damage increase. For mdef you go from taking 40% dmg to 42% dmg that's a 5% increase.

    And 27055 is only 2476 more hp than 24579, not 3.5k... Thats a 10% increase.
    **sigh** another idiot that... Loved the condesending tone in your post when you fail at basic elementary level math.

    So basically you'll survive magic damage better because of your bigger hp pool but your hp pool isn't enough to compensate your physical defense loss. You'll also be harder to heal because hp will be removed faster. All in all its a toss-up and depends more on what is actually happening in the tw but I like the original build better. More vitality doesn't mean anything when your hp falls off so quick.

    im not understand your math here how is taking 17% to 13% a 15% increase in my damage taken. Explain more and you might have found a vaild problem with this build.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    I don't cashshop, barbs are useless, the money i do have goes to my seeker and sin.

    if you know patterns and math.. its called mirages and tishas all the way to +7/+8.. I DID IT.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    im not understand your math here how is taking 17% to 13% a 15% increase in my damage taken. Explain more and you might have found a vaild problem with this build.
    He's basically correct.

    For example, let's say a mob does 1,000 base damage.

    If your reduction is 85%, you take 15% of the 1,000 damage, which is 150.
    If your reduction is 83%, you take 17% of the 1,000 damage, which is 170.

    170 is 13.3% more damage than 150.

    So yeah, that "only 2%" extra damage is actually 13.3% more.
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    if you know patterns and math.. its called mirages and tishas all the way to +7/+8.. I DID IT.
    Nah, not Tishas all the way, you'll need more Tienkangs than Tishas for the cheapest refines.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    I found a Blademaster with +10 lunar claws to figure out how much more damage i would be taking

    His Patk no sage buff is 5100-5900
    With the original build i will take 885 damage
    New build 1003
    So i take an increased 118 damage with his 5 aps 590 more damage a second with the new build. So after about 5 seconds of him smashing me it will become equal to the original build, and anything after that it becomes bad for my build. 5 seconds is a long time. Also you ask why do i have him unsparked, i hope my faction can see a demon fist bm sparking on me in tw. Why the +10 lunar claws, because he was the biggest DD i had on my friends list online. With bigger and higher refined weapons for physical DD my build becomes around equal to normal imo. Anything under that mine is better.

    With magical DD as is normal for TW, i take the same damage from some and 2% more at the max.
    60% for Fire (Same as before)
    58 for Water and Earth (now that i think about i will look for Resistance Water and Earth boots )(worries me slightly)(Psychics Wiz)
    59 for Metal (Clerics= No Magical DPS)
    58 Wood (Only Venos and Mystics use this so im not very afraid of their Magical DPS)

    I Also do not mind my low resistances because those become very negatively effected when i get purged while my hp only losses the barb hp buff not tiger form buff

    Purged my build has more survivability then normal (I almost always die purged in tw)
    Unpurged i would say at least equal if not better

    Finally i as a barb love the damage reduction of solid shield which works better with lower resistances and tree of protection (works better with higher hp)

    This is because i can keep absolute domain off cooldown aswell as charge chi with beastial rage of that sin who thinks he can kill me in tw.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    So i take an increased 118 damage with his 5 aps 590 more damage a second with the new build. So after about 5 seconds of him smashing me it will become equal to the original build, and anything after that it becomes bad for my build. 5 seconds is a long time.
    Hmm... I'm puzzled with what you're saying. Why does the 5 second mark matter?

    Survivability is just about how long you can survive. Against your friend, your original build could survive 5.6 seconds, and your new build can survive 5.4 seconds.

    Granted, you're only dying 0.2 seconds faster, which isn't really a big deal.

    I'm just curious what advantage you think you have during those initial 5 seconds?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • IBaMBii - Heavens Tear
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    honestly, i dont understand the 5 seconds from what above post was saying. even with that extra 3k~ ish hp and lack of defenses.. with all the r9, no matter what you build is, you need 40k+ not to get 1hit crit/zerk from wizzy. but you dont wanna cs, so.. whats the mega deal.
    -solid shield
    -tree of protection
    -absolute domain
    -invoke
    -ironguard
    -white tea
    the list goes on and on of what you need to help survive, not just 3k extra hp. but it seems you dont wanna spend the money to do anything. my point is no matter what your hp is, you still need survivalbility to stay alive, when to use what. im a claw barb and i can stay alive better with 13k hp over when i was pure axe with 21k hp in pk..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    IBaMBii - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    -solid shield
    -tree of protection
    -absolute domain
    -invoke
    -ironguard
    -white tea
    ..

    these are basically normal ways of surviving without huge amounts of hp

    Solid shield works better with higher hp because the resistances are reducing less. If you are already reducing the damage by 35% then your resistances are not doing as much as 100% damage.

    ToP works better with higher hp for obvious reasons

    AD IG both its the same.. cause you are invicible

    Invoke technically works better with higher higher hit points but you never die with turtle.

    The reasons i like this build is because i only die in tw when i am purged and don't have ironguard and turtle up.

    This build works better unbuffed and using other ways to survive than ironguard and turtle.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RioNHale - Archosaur
    RioNHale - Archosaur Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Fluffys in the same fac with all the r9 psys and archers on the server anyway so why does it matter what hes trying to tank.

    both teh builds suck anyways, its just a way for him to world chat,

    "HUM DERR I HAZ DEH 27K HPS"


    Fair enough if you wanna sit there and do nothing but buff in tw, I have much more fun critting on people in sage tiger with my dex based build whilst pulling cat than watching all the dds get all the action.

    Cant stand sitting there feeling useless with a cata thinking if my support dies im facked and I cant kill anyone at all to defend myself because I decided to restat to use a lvl 50 weapon.

    You used to be much better when you used gx and pan gu combo fluffers, and now u can use a g14 weapon but u decide to destroy your barb for an extra 3k hp so u can brag about being a 27k barb?


    b:chuckle
    ★Immunity is an Arch Server TW Faction. If you want to join Apply @ immunity.shivtr.com★ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    -Inactive 19 Sept 2011-
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    Solid shield works better with higher hp because the resistances are reducing less. If you are already reducing the damage by 35% then your resistances are not doing as much as 100% damage.
    Hmm... I still don't understand where you're coming from. The above statement might FEEL true, but the math doesn't add up that way.

    Your first build could survive 5.6 seconds, and with Solid Shield reducing 50% of damage it will survive 11.2 seconds.

    Your second build can survive 5.4 seconds, and with Solid Shield reducing 50% of damage it will survive 10.8 seconds.

    So, you're still dying faster with your new high-HP build, except that instead of dying 0.2 seconds faster, you're now dying 0.4 seconds faster. Still not a big deal, but still not better survivability.
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    ToP works better with higher hp for obvious reasons
    It's a push, actually.

    Your first build gets less HPs, but it's able to put them to better use than your second build. So the net result is exactly the same for both.
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur wrote: »
    Invoke technically works better with higher higher hit points but you never die with turtle.
    This is the same situation as Solid Shield. It might FEEL like it works better, but the math proves that it doesn't.

    I'm sorry if I sound like I'm attacking your build. That's definitely not my intention. In fact, I'm interested to see when somebody tries something new and unique.

    However, the numbers are showing that your build appears to be worse than your first one. If there's something I'm missing, I'd really like to hear it, but so far you seem to just be repeating, "it's better, it's better, it's better", even though the facts so far are showing it isn't.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    The OP's build actually does have some advantages. Since vitality raises m. def, and undine strike/m. def debuffs only affect the m. def given from gears, the OP's build could perform as well or even better than a "real" HA build while purged and undine'ed (which is what separates the good barbs from the bad...anyone can survive while fully buffed and getting IH spam healed). The same is true of TT nirv vs r9...nirv actually gives higher survival while purged and undined due to it giving an innate unpurge-able m. def increase.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • RioNHale - Archosaur
    RioNHale - Archosaur Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Easiest way to determine which is better in the ways your discussing...

    Get fully buffed with your origional build and use an eye of observation.

    Do the same with the new build.


    Simples, survival index tells all. b:scorn


    Dosent change the fact that the new build is useless in attack/Damage index.
    ★Immunity is an Arch Server TW Faction. If you want to join Apply @ immunity.shivtr.com★ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    -Inactive 19 Sept 2011-
  • BigFIuffy - Archosaur
    BigFIuffy - Archosaur Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    RioNHale - Archosaur wrote: »
    Easiest way to determine which is better in the ways your discussing...

    Get fully buffed with your origional build and use an eye of observation.

    Do the same with the new build.


    Simples, survival index tells all. b:scorn


    Dosent change the fact that the new build is useless in attack/Damage index.

    you are mad that we beat you in territory war again, btw you say 3k health does not matter. The last push i was the last barb up i had 700 hp at one point so 3k health does matter we would have had to push again.

    Also your right im useless for damage. I still have sage buffs for my sin seeker and bm though.

    Also you say we have all the rank 9. Your faction has the largest refined r9 wizard out there. Its your guys fault anyway your whole faction is +10 sins, its no wonder you win in pk tourny and can't win a territory war.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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