The most "screwed over" class in PWI.

TreeHugs - Harshlands · July 2011

Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey why you quote my name when i didnt say that b:angry

oh oops im sorry ill edit that lol. i guess it put in 2 quotes in the same response and i didnt notice.

Kurushimii - Sanctuary · July 2011

b:chuckle just teasing

rgog · July 2011

My SIN alt just caught up with my Veno main and it is really depressing. I have about the same quality equip on each and my SIN does about twice the damage per second - maybe more.

I only have 1.54 aps right now so this chasm will just grow wider. Veno's need a fix, they need to be able to give their pets items or have items that make the pets stronger. Also -chan equip should give an attack boost as well.

Even doing a 90% off sale on battle packs would help, at least every veno could have the best pets. That would make a big difference.

Emeryl - Lost City · July 2011

TreeHugs - Harshlands wrote: »

people thinking this way is what makes venos want to curl up in the fetal position and die because of the deppressing feeling of not being wanted. venos arent meant to whack things with fists. if whacking anything at all, it should be in fox form w/ a magic weapon. b:cold

Youre mean, I was being sarcastic b:cry

TreeHugs - Harshlands · July 2011

rgog wrote: »

My SIN alt just caught up with my Veno main and it is really depressing. I have about the same quality equip on each and my SIN does about twice the damage per second - maybe more.

I only have 1.54 aps right now so this chasm will just grow wider. Veno's need a fix, they need to be able to give their pets items or have items that make the pets stronger. Also -chan equip should give an attack boost as well.

Even doing a 90% off sale on battle packs would help, at least every veno could have the best pets. That would make a big difference.

true that venos dmg is low, compared to say a wizard/psy or cleric, even a mystic. casting is slow too if you have no cast gears. but im curious if you added your pets dmg into that calculation? i actually consider the pets extra dmg to be part of the venos dmg as well. even so, it may still be lower, but maybe not as much xD

Emeryl - Lost City wrote: »

Youre mean, I was being sarcastic b:cry

aww... im sorry...b:kiss

Emeryl - Lost City · July 2011

I think that too, that Veno damage alone aren't great, same thing with the pet, but both damage altogether are great.

*hugs you back*

rgog · July 2011

but im curious if you added your pets dmg into that calculation?

I didn't really do it scientifically but I killed the same mob on a few different occasions with my SIN and my Veno both lvl 87, the mob is lvl 80 and it is one of those mini boss types with 127k hp's. Yes the veno used lvl 87 pet but didn't really bother with spark. SIN double sparked a couple of times. It seemed about twice as long to kill with veno and pet.

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2011

How about doing all of your debuffs + pet + damage? Debuffs are our specialty after all. They are always with us (like buffs are with Clerics) so you should consider that into the "damage" as well maybe? Just giving suggestions.

BryFoo - Raging Tide · July 2011

Doesn't anyone remember the QQ Veno is OP threads!?! Personally, I would take the current Veno situation over that one any day.

Vixter - Harshlands · July 2011

BryFoo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Doesn't anyone remember the QQ Veno is OP threads!?! Personally, I would take the current Veno situation over that one any day.

i miss those threads b:cry

Nuku_Nuku - Raging Tide · July 2011

venos' pullin power was replaced when genies came out. now all that is left is our good looks

Foxchu - Archosaur · July 2011

rgog wrote: »

I didn't really do it scientifically but I killed the same mob on a few different occasions with my SIN and my Veno both lvl 87, the mob is lvl 80 and it is one of those mini boss types with 127k hp's. Yes the veno used lvl 87 pet but didn't really bother with spark. SIN double sparked a couple of times. It seemed about twice as long to kill with veno and pet.

here's the difference... you sparked with your sin and your veno didn't spark... so it isn't fair to judge this cause of you sparking (even though if your veno sparked she would probably take aggro and be in trouble, where as your sin can spark all it wants cause it doesn't have to worry about stealing aggro from anything).

I think venos are under appreciated than any other class... i'm now getting the "well you don't have healing herbs or res buff so we want a mystic" responses to my FCC squads. some days it makes me wonder why people can be so ignorant about other classes b:surrender i take my time to know most (if not all) the class's strength's and weaknesses. the veno has wonderful versatility and can pretty much drift into any role in a squad. From debuffer to tank to DD, a veno's role is purely to flex around what the squad needs.

and what people don't think about is the veno pets... on ? bosses my 93 herc does around 1.2k damage each hit... and the more debuffs the more he hits

(helps me judge how the other melee classes are hitting too, so when i see my herc hit 5-7k damage after a nice amp + HF it makes me drool a bit imagining what the other melee classes are hitting b:dirty

the problem i'm seeing now is that the more neglected venos are getting the less new comers are helping to boost our numbers. i personally have only seen around 20-30 good high lvl venos (am i blind or something?). i rarely see lvl80s (i know lvl70s is hard for a veno cause zhen squads want constant aoe >.> so venos are left out of that).

i try my best to show people that venos are an awesome class (have even had in-faction disputes because someone said "i don't like venos" >.> made my blood boil). i have even argued my way into FC squads cause they thought an extra sin would be better or the squad could use a seeker over me b:angry

all i have to say is that i'm very proud to be a veno. i may not be the best or have the best gear, but i sure as hell know how to play my class and how to unlock 100% of my veno's potential b:cute so keep fighting to make people realize how important venos are guys

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2011

Foxchu - Archosaur wrote: »

all i have to say is that i'm very proud to be a veno. i may not be the best or have the best gear, but i sure as hell know how to play my class and how to unlock 100% of my veno's potential b:cute so keep fighting to make people realize how important venos are guys

This exactly. You were speaking my mind.

Jeremied - Sanctuary · July 2011

I always make a point to include any venos in my squads. Not only because I play one, or that my fac leader is one, or that most of my good friends are one, but because of the debuffs and free sparks that they can send to other squaddies.

Venos ftw.

Oh, and adorable pets. <_<

Kurushimii - Sanctuary · July 2011

Foxchu - Archosaur wrote: »

i try my best to show people that venos are an awesome class (have even had in-faction disputes because someone said "i don't like venos" >.> made my blood boil)

b:angry who dare say such a thing... Well the kind of argument people, i hear all the time is mostly sage veno > demon veno . I feel sooo unloved b:cry (yes sorry i wasn't mean to be a TT slave)

QuickClaw - Lost City · July 2011

to be honest venos will always be useful in squads, becasue they are a decent non-5.0 dd, and they have a unique amp that stacks with all other amps. not to mention they can debuff etc, i really dont see how the earthguard expansion has changed venos stock at all, and obviously the tideborn expansion lowered all classes except sins stock so imo no real difference.

Foxchu - Archosaur · July 2011

QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »

to be honest venos will always be useful in squads, becasue they are a decent non-5.0 dd, and they have a unique amp that stacks with all other amps. not to mention they can debuff etc, i really dont see how the earthguard expansion has changed venos stock at all, and obviously the tideborn expansion lowered all classes except sins stock so imo no real difference.

THAT is the most sense a sin as EVER made .-. and i'm being completely serious... thank you quickclaw... guess there are some sins out there that are not over confident thinking "we are the most powerful class in PW and can solo any boss with our R8 and R9" oh well... guess sins will always be like this b:surrender

Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:angry who dare say such a thing... Well the kind of argument people, i hear all the time is mostly sage veno > demon veno . I feel sooo unloved b:cry (yes sorry i wasn't mean to be a TT slave)

yeah... ya know she's a mystic that got bored with playing her 101 R8 veno so she QQed and rerolled a mystic saying it's "better and more fun than a veno" so... eh... she pisses me off every once in a while with the same attitude that i use with my veno (the "lets get people to understand my class better" attitude). she really is a nice person but i get annoyed cause venos had the same problems that mystics do and well... now mystics are being recognized for their skills more than venos .-. (or at least on my server... venos are almost non-existent anymore... probably rerolled a mystic or other class b:sad)

Kurushimii - Sanctuary · July 2011

Foxchu - Archosaur wrote: »

venos are almost non-existent anymore... probably rerolled a mystic or other class b:sad)

b:cry NUUUUU don't do that . You won't be able to run in foxy anymore and summon ugly plant when u mediate .

Lorann - Raging Tide · July 2011

Foxchu - Archosaur wrote: »

THAT is the most sense a sin as EVER made .-. and i'm being completely serious... thank you quickclaw... guess there are some sins out there that are not over confident thinking "we are the most powerful class in PW and can solo any boss with our R8 and R9" oh well... guess sins will always be like this b:surrender

LOL I agree! for the most part. In my personal experience it's demon sins who have TO SPARK OMG RAWR DAMGAE RAWR SPARK DAMAGE RAWR YOU CAN NO HAS MY AGGRO IM RAWR INVINCIBLE SPARK kind of annoying. Majority of sage sins I've played with seem to know their purpose in a squad and fulfil it well. but I won't rant about sins in teh veno forum >.>

Foxchu - Archosaur wrote: »

the problem i'm seeing now is that the more neglected venos are getting the less new comers are helping to boost our numbers. i personally have only seen around 20-30 good high lvl venos (am i blind or something?). i rarely see lvl80s (i know lvl70s is hard for a veno cause zhen squads want constant aoe >.> so venos are left out of that).

No, no you're not blind and it's not just your server. Or maybe i'm blind too. Either one works i guess. The ratio of Bad venos to Good venos is in favour of the bad ones, maybe it's like that with all classes but it doesn't seem like it really (resisting urge to go off on a tangent about the **** loads of fishies everywhere). Sad thing is i've seen plenty of veno ignorant people assume a herc veno = a good veno. Even sadder is there are a lot more hercs around at the moment and ... well... let's just say there are a lot of people who need to learn how to control their class before learning to control their pet... or both would be optimal. Seems like many people wasted a loooot of coin... but wut the hey it's a game and... what a waste >.<

EDIT: Totally relevant to the first post n stuff: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1143761 ... yeh ... was looking forward to a pair of pwnsome skills. Now I have to ignore the pair of pwnsome fails.

Foxchu - Archosaur · July 2011

Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:cry NUUUUU don't do that . You won't be able to run in foxy anymore and summon ugly plant when u mediate .

oh i'll never quit my veno

i love her too much b:cute plus mystics are mana eaters... too much mana consumption for me to use them >.>

Edit: I lubs foxy form!!!!

i can run so fast *.* demon fox form ftw! lets run faster than barbs

*transforms and runs in circles for hours*

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur · July 2011

thumbs wrote: »

Most venos in FF don't amp unless asked to, then it's once per boss at most. Most doing FF seem to not have a Herc or want to bother summoning a pet either. An assassin can just melee and do more dmg than most venos will. Blame your fellow venos: not the person forming the squad. I was a good veno. I didn't compromise my pets to do FF. I amped, etc. I got noticed and befriended by some awesome players. Do good work, don't be a scab; and you will stand out from among the hordes of crappy venos.

I have to agree somewhat.

And if venos don't get recognized in squad, I partly blame the venos themselves. Being a solo class for most of the game, guess what? I am no surprised when someone here says that 90+ players don't know what amp is. Most venos for my history of the game didn't want to share TT drops, so would only have people in squad for TT long enough to open then *kick*. So no, it doesn't surprise me. How about spending more time FORMING squads and less time waiting for someone to say they want you? And promote yourself a little. Let people know what you are doing - "hey, let me know when you hf and ill amp", "let me know how much more damage you do when I amp", etc.

For me? My veno is HA and I pulled the exp room in FC, and noone died or even got close to pulling aggro from me. Think that went unnoticed? It didn't. Jaws dropped. I was LVL 82, lol.

Fact is, ALL casters are screwed in this game. Some more than others, sure. But trying getting in nirvana as a wizard with no useful buffs, no useful debuffs (for aps squad, at least - and spare me any comments about frostblade - I've played a wizard for almost if not 3 years on 2 different servers - I've been asked for that buff 5 times, and 3 of those I was being punked), no amp, not appreciable dd on par with what aps classes are looking for.

Go ahead. Accept my invitation. I dare you. b:bye

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver · July 2011

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

For me? My veno is HA and I pulled the exp room in FC, and noone died or even got close to pulling aggro from me. Think that went unnoticed? It didn't. Jaws dropped. I was LVL 82, lol.

Wow I'm amazed. What is your build? I'm pure arcane, but I've always been interesting in an affordable HA veno.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur · July 2011

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wow I'm amazed. What is your build? I'm pure arcane, but I've always been interesting in an affordable HA veno.

Well, I kinda cheat. I use my wizards stuff (event pdef ornaments, cloudcharger cape with vit stones, warsoul helm with citrine gems, etc. - all able to be equipped at lvl 80 or before), so maybe I was a bad example to the extent someone thought I was saying tank it at lvl 82 like I did.

But, the core point is the same - do things unconventionally and effectively, and point out how you benefit the party, in a non-arrogant way and people will take notice. And put yourself out there - make the squad, volunteer to TRY to pull the room if a barb dc's, etc.

As for affordable HA build, I would suggest tt80 ha - its good enough till lvl 100, requires less stat points to use than tt90, and can usually be farmed without too much difficulty. But I am by no means an expert. I am a very noob veno, I admit it freely.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · July 2011

HA builds are fun especially for pulling. In the 80s I pulled with my LA veno, holy pathed before BB, bramble hood, got hit a few times by everything, sutra power orbed, fox form, myriad/befuddle, run to BB. I didn't pull with my higher veno, HA/AA until the 90s and that was more simple of hood+ff+myriad. Although, with enough HP a simple bramble hood + fox form should work as a HA or LA just fine, making sure to allow a few reflected hits to deny a BB heal tick to gain aggro to the cleric.

Foxchu - Archosaur · July 2011

one thing i have to rant about is the nerfing of veno skills for PK mode... bramble guard and bramble hood are a MUST if you are going against a stealthed, stunlocking, 5aps sin b:angry i can can beat most sins in duels because of bramble hood... but when you nerf the reflect then things get harder (and sometimes impossible). how come psy's soul of vengeance is not nerfed? it reflects ALL damage and it can't be purged... but it can be put on other classes like bramble (granted it has a 10 min cool down). it just doesn't seem justified to nerf a class cause of a skill THEY put into the game to help that said class... i mean bramble hood is a buff so venos can purge it like any other buff... and the other classes can stun lock a veno for the duration of hood usually or... do the smart thing and make a tactical retreat... 2 spark skill that can turn the tide in a battle... i think it is entirely fair to have bramble guard and hood in PK mode... if the melees are smart they won't attack venos without thinking first... their fault, not the veno, when they attack our hood b:laugh but... the devs are not good at fixing anything and that's why i don't PK with my veno b:cry

Desdi - Sanctuary · July 2011

I agree with you Foxchu. I know, however, that they will never bother. They nerfed Venomancers because people were complaining.

Probably the reason Psychic buffs cannot be purged is because they have some new coding to them which Purge doesn't recognise. At least, this is what someone explained once.

Also....

VENO POWER!!! Let's stay united! XD

And to add to the comments above me, I just love when I do things my squad never expected. I have also pulled FCC exp room (though at lvl 100 and I'm semi-pure magic build with 30 Vit base) and it was extremely fun! I also tend to pull mobs if for example Cleric heals too late and gets aggro so I just Noxious Gas -> run.

The other day I did a TT3-2 and my whole squad wiped at Steelation. With Demon Summer Sprint, Feral Concentration, Bramble Hood and Crab Meat, Purging at the right moment, I was able to survive way longer than my squad. Well, eventually I died as well since I wasn't getting heals and I couldn't get my Hercules tanking because whenever I got sleep it died.

Foxchu - Archosaur · July 2011

i am by far not a pure mag veno... i currently have a base stat of 83vit, 345 mag, 25dex and 57 str (give or take a few points in vit and mag) and when ever i pull aggro from those aggro hogging sins and BMs i promptly let the squad know with a "o.o i pulled aggro" i usually pull aggro on big pulls with a barb doing what barbs do best... just happens that venos have wonderful aoes and even without demon nova or nox i can still pull aggro from the classes considered "better" b:pleased

oh and when i was in my 70s i was the main tank for BH59 (when we couldn't find a barb). oh yeah me and my cleric friend went crazy in there... i would take on physical mobs being a full AA veno and totally kick their butts. held aggro on every boss from almost every class (psys stole it easily, it took a really pro sin to steal aggro from me, and barbs using flesh ream are the only ones i had a hard time out DDing or aggroing). and i loved how people joined the squad saying "where's the barb?" and i would say "you are looking at her

" heehee showed everyone there what venos where made of... and i never had a squad wipe while i was tank, a few died though... only cause they wouldn't listen to me or let me pull the mobs i wanted b:surrender and it always feels good when your cleric friend chooses you to tank a mag boss over a barb heehee

lets show these people in PW what venos are made of, get out there and do something no one will expect, ya crazy venos b:cool

Kurushimii - Sanctuary · July 2011

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

The other day I did a TT3-2 and my whole squad wiped at Steelation. With Demon Summer Sprint, Feral Concentration, Bramble Hood and Crab Meat, Purging at the right moment, I was able to survive way longer than my squad. Well, eventually I died as well since I wasn't getting heals and I couldn't get my Hercules tanking because whenever I got sleep it died.

Veno are first to die or the last one to stand, depends on situation b:laugh Like pulling boss when you didn't kill enough mobs, get one shot and hear "oops we are missing mobs"... Dont trust people on counting mobs for you b:angry

Foxchu - Archosaur · July 2011

Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »

Veno are first to die or the last one to stand, depends on situation b:laugh Like pulling boss when you didn't kill enough mobs, get one shot and hear "oops we are missing mobs"... Dont trust people on counting mobs for you b:angry

well this is true... but this is where you pull out that trusty herc/walker to smack the mob b:laugh (or be like me and have enough HP to sustain a killing blow by most bosses, i has 5.1k HP unbuffed at lvl97 with only flawlesses in my gear).

Kurushimii - Sanctuary · July 2011

Foxchu - Archosaur wrote: »

well this is true... but this is where you pull out that trusty herc/walker to smack the mob b:laugh (or be like me and have enough HP to sustain a killing blow by most bosses, i has 5.1k HP unbuffed at lvl97 with only flawlesses in my gear).

b:chuckle I meant in TT3-X, when you need a certain amount of mobs or the boss go frenzy mode . 8.4k HP (unbuffed), 18k p.def fox form, 14k m.def... I tell you don't trust people on counting mobs for you b:angry

The most "screwed over" class in PWI.

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