Heaven (Sage) vs Hell (Demon)

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · July 2011

not this again....b:shocked

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have not worked out all the possibile battle possibilities, but I suspect that sage usually has the advantage in battles that end quickly where demon usually has the advantage in battles that take a long time. But not always.

Before anyone taken anything this guy says in to consideration. Please be advised that unless you are playing the board game version of the game, everything he says is useless. For the rest of us, who is playing the computer version of the game. In order to pull off anything he says you need a couple of things: 1) Extreme luck that you already won a multi-million dollar lottery. 2) Your target has ping in excess of 1k. 3) Your target is dumber than a doornail. 4) You got 5 other friends with you fighting against a single target.

Unless we are talking about a one shot here... where both sage and demon would take the same amount of time. Demon has all the advantage of ending a battle long before a sage would.

Feel free to look up my qualifications in the rankings. Then feel free to "attempt" to find his.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · July 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

From my point of view: Devoted never bothered to work out where or when a number of skills were useful. And in part this was probably because Devoted had not spent any time in those situations. And, some of them did not exist back then (like, for example, anything involving seekers -- sage mana drain can end a stun immune seeker's yataghan).
.

This forum restriction should have.. a 3k Pvp count. You will actually share "real pvp opinions". b:chuckle

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · July 2011

KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »

This forum restriction should have.. a 3k Pvp count. You will actually share "real pvp opinions". b:chuckle

so noob archer TW alts with high kill count from being R9/farming lowbies have rightful opinions in this field?

Also, rankings/core connect are about as reliable as a corner-worker on hallucinogens.

IJS.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · July 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

You forgot to mention that demon quickshot is worthless

I think that demon quickshot is a great skill.

Of course, I also think people have overhyped it, and I think people can use it better if they understand it.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · July 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

so noob archer TW alts with high kill count from being R9/farming lowbies have rightful opinions in this field?

Also, rankings/core connect are about as reliable as a corner-worker on hallucinogens.

IJS.

Look at the join Date. I hardly doubt it takes more than 3 years to get 1k kills per year. Even if ranking is broken.. I find it easy to get over 3k kills. Unless your not pvp active.

Mana burn #1 Build now. That's how dumb the argument from people that has no experience.

Vindis - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Im personally sage and it fits my playstyle a lot better but that is unimportant. Onto the question:

Demon or Sage?

Demon has more dps.
Sage has more dph.
Demon has more crit.
Sage has more range.
Demon has Demon QS.
Sage has longer stun.
Demon has more aps (Demon spark).
Sage has more chi.

Do they both kill things efficiently? Yes.
Are they both fairly similar end game? Yes.
Do you want more dps or more chi (for Aim Low/WoG/EA/Frost/TS etc)?
Did that last question answer the original question? It should have.

DW Archers: Pick Demon to lower the prices on Sage skills for me ^_^

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · July 2011

KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »

Look at the join Date. I hardly doubt it takes more than 3 years to get 1k kills per year. Even if ranking is broken.. I find it easy to get over 3k kills. Unless your not pvp active.

Mana burn #1 Build now. That's how dumb the argument from people that has no experience.

I do not agree at all with Fleuri's ideas. When I read that manaburn thing for the first time in some older thread, I honestly thought she was trolling. I was just knocking the idea of judging someones level of mastery in pvp or any game matter by their kills/ ranking/ k/d

After all, it is very easy for a person even such as this, to get high kills/ k.d simply from being geared....all while demonstrating the pro effectiveness of things like sage manaburn. b:chuckle

truekossy · July 2011

That video.... it made me cry.

Dear lord that was just BEYOND horrible. b:cry

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

After all, it is very easy for a person even such as this, to get high kills/ k.d simply from being geared....all while demonstrating the pro effectiveness of things like sage manaburn. b:chuckle

OMG that was so painful to watch ><

Aesthor - Heavens Tear · July 2011

It was this thread that tipped the scales when I was deciding between demon and sage (and that was a long time ago, I feel so old).

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Before anyone taken anything this guy says in to consideration. Please be advised that unless you are playing the board game version of the game, everything he says is useless. For the rest of us, who is playing the computer version of the game. In order to pull off anything he says you need a couple of things: 1) Extreme luck that you already won a multi-million dollar lottery. 2) Your target has ping in excess of 1k. 3) Your target is dumber than a doornail. 4) You got 5 other friends with you fighting against a single target.

Unless we are talking about a one shot here... where both sage and demon would take the same amount of time. Demon has all the advantage of ending a battle long before a sage would.

Feel free to look up my qualifications in the rankings. Then feel free to "attempt" to find his.

I always get a good laugh out of your posts b:dirty

Quilue - Sanctuary · July 2011

Kiyoshi realizes this after pages and pages of grueling forum battle. There's quite a colorful story behind that post. b:quiet

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · July 2011

truekossy wrote: »

That video.... it made me cry.

Dear lord that was just BEYOND horrible. b:cry

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

OMG that was so painful to watch ><

I have seen just as bad on sanc.

You should see the other video, she gets locked for ridiculous amounts of time by bms, surviving only due to the HURHUR tankability of gear, and then hits random sage skills till landing a fatal crit.

Someone please teach her the archer ways

truekossy · July 2011

Better idea: We can get people to keep killing her until she uninstalls so that we never have to speak of her again. ><

Edit: I went and looked through some of the other videos and... ugh... PWI isn't that difficult of a game to play and yet she manages to make it look hard. That's saying something.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · July 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

When I read that manaburn thing for the first time in some older thread, I honestly thought she was trolling.

You do not like me being half serious?

b:sad

Manaburn is an amusing skill. And, ok, yes, anyone that is prepared for it will usually be able to avoid any bad effect from it (the exception is when your only purpose is to tick their mana charm -- once their mana charm has ticked, a sage veno can remove 1600 mana and chaotic spirit within a fraction of a second -- though hypothetically speaking if lag works out right, they can chaotic spirit before the charm kicks in). But it's kind of funny watching someone set up a combo and then just stand there half way through (and I've seen this happen, dozens of times, after using mana burn).

But, ok, mana burn is not a strong tactic -- it's mostly just a way of catching out the unprepared.

But useless? No, not useless: rarely useful. These concepts are different.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary · July 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

You do not like me being half serious?

b:sad

Manaburn is an amusing skill. And, ok, yes, anyone that is prepared for it will usually be able to avoid any bad effect from it (the exception is when your only purpose is to tick their mana charm -- once their mana charm has ticked, a sage veno can remove 1600 mana and chaotic spirit within a fraction of a second -- though hypothetically speaking if lag works out right, they can chaotic spirit before the charm kicks in). But it's kind of funny watching someone set up a combo and then just stand there half way through (and I've seen this happen, dozens of times, after using mana burn).

But, ok, mana burn is not a strong tactic -- it's mostly just a way of catching out the unprepared.

But useless? No, not useless: rarely useful. These concepts are different.

I still cant tell if you are trolling or not.

Decus - Dreamweaver · July 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

After all, it is very easy for a person even such as this, to get high kills/ k.d simply from being geared....all while demonstrating the pro effectiveness of things like sage manaburn. b:chuckle

That's why no one respects DW. Cause we suck b:cry

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2011

Vortex has an MP usage surpassing that of Demon Barrage. This is on a class that maxes out at like 1700 MP. The only way to keep it up is to guzzle cheap MP food. Sage vicious will only increase the MP usage of the skill by around 10%, hardly noticeable really and easily sustained by the MP food they are guzzling.

Sage vicious would be more likely to be 'effective' when they are not spamming high MP skills. Though honestly those who don't trust themselves to eat MP food likely already have MP charms.

Devoted - Lost City · July 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

After all, it is very easy for a person even such as this, to get high kills/ k.d simply from being geared....all while demonstrating the pro effectiveness of things like sage manaburn. b:chuckle

Pretty much the reason I don't play anymore. You have someone that can hit 10k metal attacks yet doesn't know that the 'cleric dot' was their own skill.

KedgeSniper - Lost City · July 2011

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

Pretty much the reason I don't play anymore. You have someone that can hit 10k metal attacks yet doesn't know that the 'cleric dot' was their own skill.

gotta spam poison arrow n serrated more.. That's why he couldn't kill pass the charm!
Need those dots!

Fleuri - Sanctuary · July 2011

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Vortex has an MP usage surpassing that of Demon Barrage. This is on a class that maxes out at like 1700 MP. The only way to keep it up is to guzzle cheap MP food. Sage vicious will only increase the MP usage of the skill by around 10%, hardly noticeable really and easily sustained by the MP food they are guzzling.

I keep meaning to test that skill to find out how much mana it drains.

And, you all are right that the effects of mana drain on a seeker are not reliable.

But its not linear, and the mana drain will reduce the amount of time a seeker has between uses of herb.

The player location might also matter. (European players have some disadvantages on Sanctuary.)

Edit: but, thinking deeper, the mana drain ticks once every three seconds. And, yangta is fairly obvious. So, anyways, you have the possibility of several sage archers landing their mana drains close to each other, in time. So, if you have a seeker getting ironhearts from several clerics, teleporting in on vacuity, archers still have a response, if you have enough sages (though a single wizard could do a better job of it).

Miugre - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Okay, well... admittedly, when I saw that this thread had come back from the dead (...again...) my first thought was "aw HELL no." XD But reading the new disclaimer, I should offer a little bit of kudos to Devoted for putting it in perspective. With that, the thread becomes at least tolerable as a guide. The problem is, the OP is still terribly flawed and in order to get a full perspective, one would have to read through this entire thread. I dunno about you, but if I were a newbie, I wouldn't want to read 40+ pages of this argument. Devoted has a PVP bias bordering on the ridiculous, but then, this was the time when calling someone a "carebear" was actually an insult. XD

A couple people suggested that I take a stab at writing a Sage guide to counter this thread. But when I look at the state of this thread, I can't help but wonder if what we need is just an objective guide on the differences between Sage and Demon. Y'know, have one be the actual "guide" and the other be the "ongoing discussion," if you will.

Any thoughts on that idea? Keep in mind that I have a PVE bias unlike many of you here, so anything I write would encompass an understanding of PVP that I've mostly compiled from the community around me. :P

If I were to write anything, I'd like as unbiased a write-up as possible. To that end, and since I've had a sage bias since long before 89, I thought I'd write down my take on Archer skills. This is a blend of sage-biased opinion and various community arguments I've read (Devoted's being among them). Any final guide will have more refined points.

For what it's worth, I just acheived my goal of getting this entire bookset yesterday afternoon, so I feel at least a little more qualified in my opinions now... XD

...but yeah. Challenge me on any of these - I want a full composite opinion here.

Quickshot:
Yeah demon wins, but this seems vastly overrated to me. Maybe it was more deserving of its worship back when you could glitch the proc without using the skill itself. Buuuut then again I like to operate on the assumption that we aren't glitching the game here. >_>

Take Aim:
Pretty much even I'd say, both are good. As a PVE opener though Sage is more MP efficient.

Knockback:
I'd say they're even - chi proc is nice, but I can also think of situations where a reduced cooldown on this could be useful in PVE.

Aim Low:
Neither version's benefit will matter unless you're stupid/unfortunate enough for your target to be close enough to attack you once they're frozen. In which case, Sage wins just by virtue of its effect being 2s longer... not that you can rely on a 25% proc for either.

Stun:
Game mode bias applies here; IMO Sage clearly wins in PVE, but Demon probably wins in PVP. I WILL say that this is one of the biggest reasons I went sage. I finally learned it just yesterday and I love it already.

Deadly Shot:
Does anyone actually use this in endgame? o.O Meh, Demon wins this one I guess, because if you ever find yourself in a situation where you're casting this at melee range, you either cancel and kite (if you're smart) or you'll be dead shortly (if you're not).

Barrage:
I would agree that Demon wins this, per Devoted's argument. But frankly I've never cared that much about Lv11 Barrage, so it'll probably be the last skill I get.

Blazing:
Sage wins by a MILE here. You are not gonna be recasting this skill all the time to get Demon's benefit, especially since most of today's archers can probably outdamage that benefit in 2-3 shots.

Frost:
IMO Sage wins, but that's because I've always enjoyed the elemental versatility of the Archer. With this, an Archer can do any kind of elemental damage except earth, and you have another skill to spam on Increased Def.

Vicious:
Demon wins this one, for what little this skill is worth, because I doubt 500 MP will ever matter even in PVP. Then again, one gets lv11 of this skill just to make it a less-sucky DoT, not so much because of the S/D benefit (at least, that was my reason for getting it). I find it somewhat visiually hilarious to give a boss manaleak, though. XD

Serrated:
Sage wins this for the same reason Demon wins on Vicious. Especially with today's builds, "stealing" a grand total of 200 HP doesn't mean anything.

Sharptooth:
Game mode bias applies here (Sage wins for PVE, Demon wins for PVP). But personally, I'll be damned if I let some random Sage Veno or genie skill outperform me at this debuff. ;]

Lightning Strike:
Personal preference I guess. I can see how Demon would win in PVP (per Devoted's argument) but otherwise neither is a culti-changer.

Thundershock:
Sage wins IMO because I would never, ever rely on a 10% proc for anything. And in PVE, you'll only ever use this on bosses, Increased Def mobs, and mobs that have managed to reach you for melee attacks.

Thunderblast:
IMO Sage wins here too, because this skill's channeling is pretty much the worst thing about it, and Sage version helps with that.

Stormrage:
Both have their uses. I WILL say that I am actually, unironically looking to get this skill before getting Sage Barrage. It basically becomes a ranged version of the BM's Glacial Spike (in the form of a DoT). This is one of those things you cast in the beginning of a boss fight while waiting for the tank to gain aggro, anyway.

Winged Shell:
Eh pretty much even. But do people even use this skill outside of PVE? It would seem to me that in today's broken PVP system, anyone can take down that 1000/1250 damage in no time at all. -_- I suppose Demon is better than Sage for chi-to-MP conversion purposes, but who uses this skill for that?

Winged Pledge:
I... can't honestly think of a situation where people USE this at endgame. That said, reducing its cooldown to 1s WOULD make it hilariously spammable.

Wingspan:
Sorry Devoted but your argument for this one is kinda BS. What good is a 435 HP Winged Shell in this day and age? Even if you can recast it, the concept of "tanking [BMs and Barbs]" with it is just laughable. Sage has a very low proc chance but hey, if it procs you get a spark.

Wings of Protection:
Ahh, this one I wish I could learn the Demon version of instead. However, I will say that it's more convenient to recast this and Blazing at the same time, which Sage kinda provides for (since the speed buff lasts 15 minutes, just like either lv11 Blazing does).

Bow Mastery:
I think Devoted's love of the extra crit is a bit overblown here. We're already racking up at least 20-30% crit just from our dex and our gears, and the Law of Diminishing Returns is going to start applying sooner or later. With that in mind, I'd rather have a permenant weapon attack increase. (Also is Ecatomb right - is Demon's benefit really just 1%?)

Winged Blessing:
This is probably one of the most contested ones, and as stated, I have found some solid uses for that +2 range. I wouldn't care too much about Demon's 1% crit, for the same reason I mentioned for Bow Mastery. The +10% accuracy might've been nice though,
particularly for PVP. So in the end, this one might be even / personal preference.

Also:

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Edit: but, thinking deeper, the mana drain ticks once every three seconds. And, yangta is fairly obvious. So, anyways, you have the possibility of several sage archers landing their mana drains close to each other, in time.

So wait, does the manaleak stack? Because if so that's hilarious.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · July 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

I keep meaning to test that skill to find out how much mana it drains.

And, you all are right that the effects of mana drain on a seeker are not reliable.

But its not linear, and the mana drain will reduce the amount of time a seeker has between uses of herb.

The player location might also matter. (European players have some disadvantages on Sanctuary.)

Edit: but, thinking deeper, the mana drain ticks once every three seconds. And, yangta is fairly obvious. So, anyways, you have the possibility of several sage archers landing their mana drains close to each other, in time. So, if you have a seeker getting ironhearts from several clerics, teleporting in on vacuity, archers still have a response, if you have enough sages (though a single wizard could do a better job of it).

Or you could walk out of the aoe.

TigerLily - Lost City · July 2011

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

After all, it is very easy for a person even such as this, to get high kills/ k.d simply from being geared....all while demonstrating the pro effectiveness of things like sage manaburn. b:chuckle

OMG what is this O_O

Spending 30 mil for Blood Vow and not knowing it has a metal dot. I first assumed he used Vicious Arrow/Serrated arrow to be funny or something but i actually think its serious. This guy gets 20 Chrono Pages and doesn't know what Blood Vow does, of course he thinks lvl 11 mp burn makes a difference in PvP.

I remember ages ago some sage archer using Vicious Arrow one me while i had Barrage up in TW trying to close my zhen, it was funny. I had venos doing that to with that horrible mele 59 skill of theirs. People here need to realize that mana burn does not work on charmed people ever unless you're R9+12 and can 1 shot them with the base dmg from whatever shietty skill you feel like using.

ProtocoI - Harshlands · July 2011

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, well... admittedly, when I saw that this thread had come back from the dead (...again...) my first thought was "aw HELL no." XD But reading the new disclaimer, I should offer a little bit of kudos to Devoted for putting it in perspective. With that, the thread becomes at least tolerable as a guide. The problem is, the OP is still terribly flawed and in order to get a full perspective, one would have to read through this entire thread. I dunno about you, but if I were a newbie, I wouldn't want to read 40+ pages of this argument. Devoted has a PVP bias bordering on the ridiculous, but then, this was the time when calling someone a "carebear" was actually an insult. XD

A couple people suggested that I take a stab at writing a Sage guide to counter this thread. But when I look at the state of this thread, I can't help but wonder if what we need is just an objective guide on the differences between Sage and Demon. Y'know, have one be the actual "guide" and the other be the "ongoing discussion," if you will.

Any thoughts on that idea? Keep in mind that I have a PVE bias unlike many of you here, so anything I write would encompass an understanding of PVP that I've mostly compiled from the community around me. :P

If I were to write anything, I'd like as unbiased a write-up as possible. To that end, and since I've had a sage bias since long before 89, I thought I'd write down my take on Archer skills. This is a blend of sage-biased opinion and various community arguments I've read (Devoted's being among them). Any final guide will have more refined points.

For what it's worth, I just acheived my goal of getting this entire bookset yesterday afternoon, so I feel at least a little more qualified in my opinions now... XD

...but yeah. Challenge me on any of these - I want a full composite opinion here.

Also:

So wait, does the manaleak stack? Because if so that's hilarious.

"for PVE this wins"... Um bro we have and always will be talking about pvp. And for another thing, you lost all respect when you said

"stormrage: BOTH HAVE THEIR USES?!?" Really? If you are nub or **** enough to EVER you that horrible waste of not one but TWO sparks, you don't deserve to have a say as an archer in your lifetime.

Now back to the topic at hand, yeah some sage skills might be better but WHICH sage skills are better that really matter?

Blazing arrow? Um no because the point of getting it is to in fact recast when u first start pvping against "squishy classes" (la or arcane) and **** them in 2 sec with quick shot and normal attacks.

Thundershock? Um no because the full chain (Thundershock, lightning strike, lightning blast, lightning blast, Thundershock.. W8 for cooldown) all last a total of around 15sec anyway, unless u went carebear and use it for dungeons with a cleric, then it's a Lil understandable. Onward.

Take aim? Aha you must be joking, first u have to w8 the full time to get the full effect and secondly... If you see an archer standing in that stance for a second you are either getting outta range or stunning him, period. It's quite **** to ever use this skill in pvp, we are archers not assassins. Remember?

Frost arrow? That skill is abizmul, not only do u do close to no damage with it but it uses up your chi! Chi used for what u ask? USEFUL SKILLS like demon spark or wings of grace.

But I'm tired of ripping through your argument and skip to the point, Wth do you ever see an archer kill their target using skills like vicious, serrated, take aim, etc endgame with decent refines?? Ohhh that's right, you don't.

Archers skill base should be about maximizing efficiency for DPS not wasting their gear and going DPH. Archers are known to kill with big numbers rapidly, aka pew pewing. You don't hear about qq threads saying "OMG THE ARCHERS STORMRAGE AND VICIOUS HIT LIKE TRUCKS" and there is a reason for that.

Bow Mastery gets outshined by crits, 2 extra meters is nothing compared to more crit and even then 2 meters does virtually nothing with all the "quick step" skills almost every class has.

Sage is and always will be fail compared to demon, always have from the my server and always WILL be.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · July 2011

ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »

"for PVE this wins"... Um bro we have and always will be talking about pvp.

Maybe you have. I realize some people treat this game like PVP is the only thing in it, but any smart player knows there are better games out there for solid, straight-up PVP. And seeing as a guide is something that is generalized and, oh I dunno, geared towards newbies, don't you think we have an obligation to cover the actual content of the game itself?

Everything else you said just seems to be an extension of "LOL USUK@PVP", in which case I will direct you to the quote in my sig. >_> But honestly if you've played since MY and still find an interest in today's pathetically broken PVP system, I pity you.

Anyone got an opinion I haven't heard before? >_>
inb4 Kiyoshi <_>

ProtocoI - Harshlands · July 2011

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Maybe you have. I realize some people treat this game like PVP is the only thing in it, but any smart player knows there are better games out there for solid, straight-up PVP. And seeing as a guide is something that is generalized and, oh I dunno, geared towards newbies, don't you think we have an obligation to cover the actual content of the game itself?

Everything else you said just seems to be an extension of "LOL USUK@PVP", in which case I will direct you to the quote in my sig. >_> But honestly if you've played since MY and still find an interest in today's pathetically broken PVP system, I pity you.

Anyone got an opinion I haven't heard before? >_>
inb4 Kiyoshi <_>

It's a guide about heaven and hell, which is considered endgame content. There are plenty of guides made for "newbies" and they are called leveling guides.

If you may or may not have noticed all things in this game lead to two things: endgame pvp and endgame tw. What do you think people work for in this game right now? To be accepted into nirvana squads?? Wrong.

The PVE system is this game is the actual joke considering there is absolutely no people who get endgame by questing anymore and even then if u do get a squad I can almost gaurantee that they will be levels above you after your done since they are using exp enhancers.

Point is, this guide is about pvp... Like it was originally designed to be, if you want to find some nubs who would possibly care about this, you might wanna necro some of the PVE leveling guides and such.

Until the raise level caps or add content which gets better weapons or armor, people we only concentrate on leveling and getting the best gear to be the best at this fun pvp system.

Don't wanna believe me? Ask all of the Lvl hundred nubs buying fc heads for 250-400k.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

And, ok, yes, anyone that is prepared for it will usually be able to avoid any bad effect from it (the exception is when your only purpose is to tick their mana charm -- once their mana charm has ticked, a sage veno can remove 1600 mana and chaotic spirit within a fraction of a second

OK... I NEED TO FREAKING ASK THIS. Do you really have mob of venos following you around or something? It seems that everything you do involves a veno or two or three. And are those veno girls or GIRLs?

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Maybe you have. I realize some people treat this game like PVP is the only thing in it, but any smart player knows there are better games out there for solid, straight-up PVP.

Didn't you just try to give pvp advice by telling people to use mana drain against a seeker. Last time I checked... there is no seeker in pve.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · July 2011

ProtocoI - Harshlands wrote: »

It's a guide about heaven and hell, which is considered endgame content. There are plenty of guides made for "newbies" and they are called leveling guides.

If you may or may not have noticed all things in this game lead to two things: endgame pvp and endgame tw. What do you think people work for in this game right now? To be accepted into nirvana squads?? Wrong.

The PVE system is this game is the actual joke considering there is absolutely no people who get endgame by questing anymore and even then if u do get a squad I can almost gaurantee that they will be levels above you after your done since they are using exp enhancers.

Point is, this guide is about pvp... Like it was originally designed to be, if you want to find some nubs who would possibly care about this, you might wanna necro some of the PVE leveling guides and such.

Until the raise level caps or add content which gets better weapons or armor, people we only concentrate on leveling and getting the best gear to be the best at this fun pvp system.

Don't wanna believe me? Ask all of the Lvl hundred nubs buying fc heads for 250-400k.

Why would I want to ask an idiotic powerleveling kid anything? Except maybe "do you seriously wake up every morning and think you're cool?"

But let me ask you something - how long have you really played this game? You said you were in MY, yet the char you're posting with has a join date of last month. And your sig mentions you have a BM which I would assume is your main. Why not post on your main? Has your main played this game for awhile? Or did you just get back into this game after having played MY and left? Reason I ask is because, if you took ten minutes and looked around, you WILL see people who actually still visit the questing zones. Maybe it's different on HL, but on HT and Archosaur I still see a fair crop of newbies who, for whatever reason, still find the real game interesting. And those people are gonna want to know the facts, and an objective set of opinions, not "if you haven't bought r8 yet you fail as an archer gtfo."

But really, this line told me all I needed to know:

getting the best gear to be the best at this fun pvp system

You know what? If that's your idea of a good time? Go for it. Some of us don't feel the same. Some of us don't see the appeal of a never-ending pissing contest. But you don't see me telling you to gtfo. Because for whatever perplexing reason, you and some others still like to play the e-peen game. Well, I'm not gonna judge. But I'd like the same courtesy in return, thank you.

*sigh* Anyone else I can talk to? >_>

EDIT:

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Didn't you just try to give pvp advice by telling people to use mana drain against a seeker. Last time I checked... there is no seeker in pve.

I just posted this morning about my skill breakdown, the first time I've posted in this thread in months. I never talked about mana drain vs. seekers. That was Fleuri.

In fact, what I actually said was:

Vicious:
Demon wins this one, for what little this skill is worth, because I doubt 500 MP will ever matter even in PVP.

You could try reading the thread first.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, anyways, you have the possibility of several sage archers landing their mana drains close to each other, in time. So, if you have a seeker getting ironhearts from several clerics, teleporting in on vacuity, archers still have a response, if you have enough sages (though a single wizard could do a better job of it).

I have a better alternative to this whole situation. Consider that you have "several sage archers" targeting the seeker. Won't it be more efficient to just kill the seeker then trying to stop his vortex?

Heaven (Sage) vs Hell (Demon)

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