I need your honest unbiased opinion

Its kind of funny how 5 APS and fish really changed the way instances are run.

Frost was always done with 2 clerics if you were in the intended level range for frost. Frost was never done with 1 cleric because bosses like Shocktrooper, the bishop boss (4th), and the 6th boss sleep/stun/(occult ice). Nevermind the bosses after heads.

If you were 9x or 10x then doing frost with 1 cleric wasn't so bad.


The squads that did it with 1 cleric 8x were those squads who had pots to burn (anti-stun). But that is leaving out the part that frost when you were 8x was nearly impossible until they nerfed it a bit.

RawrGummy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

From what I read, it's just a bad case of some sins being far more intellectually challenged than normal.

People always like to blame the cleric for their own failures. Because they're perfect little fairy princesses who can do no wrong, and you should have kept them alive no matter how bad the circumstances were.

There are two kinds of endgame clerics in this game: The ones that don't exist, since their player dropped the cleric when they let these kinds of comments get to them, and the ones that shrug it off and laugh about how much failure PWI can stick into one group of 6 people.

And there's the narcisstic clerics.

And this is why my cleric is basically only used for helping the faction these days. Not because of people calling me fail, but because I am sick of getting so many random squads that are fail in this way, and get me killed.

First off, Shocktrooper. There was *nothing* you could do there. People going up against this boss with only one cleric in the squad have to be aware of the eventuality that the cleric might get slept while they are bubbled, or bubbled while they are attacked. Some clerics even die in bubble (mine is generally charmed so had no issue there). When I brought a DD or tank on those runs, I went armed with crabmeat and prepared to genie heal as well should things go bad. It is just common sense... you cannot tell the boss to leave the cleric alone.

The second problem sounds like an accident more than anything. I'm not sure what mobs you are referring to for sure, but if they were just regular mobs that didn't stun or anything, it sounds like the BM really just didn't know what the squad was capable of. Still not your fault; he thought he could do the same as a barb, and he couldn't. The result gets you killed.

And as to the third incident, that is one of the most common problems with bad random squads. There always seems to be at least one person with no concern for heal aggro. In some squads I have let people die since I specifically told them "aggro everything or I won't heal" and they refused to listen. Why should you sacrifice yourself trying to save them? Clerics are the only ones who lose full experience in that situation (everyone else can wait for the cleric to come back and res). Of course here, they insisted you set up BB beforehand, so there was nothing you could do but die. That is the fault of the person who doesn't understand heal aggro (and by that level, you have no excuse).

So, no. Speaking as someone who plays a level 100 cleric that gets told she is good at what she does, I can tell you that you are not a fail cleric because of what happened here. Neither incident was in any way your fault. You just got a really bad squad.

When something goes wrong expect the blame game, to ignite the fuel of fire of a squad that doesn't completely know each other. Thus is the problem with random squads, and ultimately what causes many people to seek factions of similar, and like minded people to avoid confrontation after confrontation. xD

Sadly too many people jump to conclusions, and when people die, naturally people look for what went wrong, and blame the people he or she feels is responsible, but all too often it is more then one person's fault. Though in your case, you were only doing what you could do, and that is BB, and hope you live.

As others said it was really a bad set up for a squad in your level range, too many people think they are the '****' so to speak, and end up lee roying/and doing something that they just can't handle, 3 sins, a bm, and an archer, while not a completely horrible set up for a squad, it should have been able to handle it... provided everyone did what they were suppose to, the bm should stun, and probably hf the mobs that early on, as well as the archer should have boaed, hopefully with a boa stronger then lvl 5 or so. xD

I have had similar experiences with my barb, I was slept/stunned in fb59... at the earth mobs, with 3 clerics, and still managed to die trying to save the chaos that one cleric caused by trying to solo mobs. ;x

I even had someone complain to me about them not being able to make the 2nd boss in fc weak... while I killed the bishops... just another case of them getting in over their head. Granted I should have asked if it was ok. TT... but really the second boss doesn't always have to be weak. Another thing in the same instance, is that I went off killing the last bishops since i died there, and they just HAD to have me back... is I went off before the third boss was completely dead. I still am like wtf why complain? It's not like I am afk, just sitting there while they do all the work... was just trying to make it go faster. xD Guess they just didn't like that I was off doing my own thing. ;/ Either way I probably didn't look too good to them on my seeker in that run. xD lol Whereas on other runs everything goes fine and smooth, and most people don't complain when I kill the bishops as they kill the mobs that unlocks second boss. =x (I can always clear all 3 bishops, and be back before boss spawns... as long as I don't die with it. xD) To make things worse the boss ended up frenzied, though knock on wood, no one died on the boss. xD I have heard of a few people helping for the first boss, leave, and not come back until the instance is cleared to the big room. =x

Sometimes it really is bad luck/people getting in over their head, and not being able to handle things they want to handle by themselves.

As for who is in the wrong? Well there is almost never a black and white area when it comes to the numerous **** ups in squads... at least when no one is the clear ... cause of deaths. Just grey areas, and fights tend to ensue when no one is quite sure what, who... or how they were killed.

EDIT: In other words people should stick to things that have a pretty high chance of succeed, I.e always making the boss tough, instead of whole squad failing due to a split up and causing the second boss to become frenzied... just make it tough, if you don't have the dd's to make it weak.

As for your case... well I think that finding a good barb/bm you trust, and just trying to stick to their squads, that way if something does go wrong, hopefully the ones you do trust, can help make sure that nothing goes haywire, and the squad all has a meltdown, would do wonders for your sanity.

Even the best of us have off days. ;x

Though if you trust the people you with... the more likely it is that the run wont completely fall apart, nor would tempers show 9 times out of 10.

Just gonna say this:




WOW! YOU HAD A DUMBASS SQUAD.




Seriously, on this BM I may solo frost now-a-days, but back when I was in squads to level. If I was told to pull or tank, I made sure every damn thing I could hit and kill was on me.

Most cleric's loved that I would do this, others bished me out for doing it. Those cleric's I kicked, I kept the one's who understood why I was keeping all the aggro....Sadly I ended up in a lot of squads without barbs....so I learned very fast how to tank shet





Hum...anyway, if you where on LC I'd take ya throw frost to help ya level....but my BM on HT is only 3.33 sparked (and I sold his deicide a long time ago)....so it wouldn't work too well

Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Most people dont understand the agro healing thing.
I know I still have to say, most of the time to sin sadly, that they have to hit every mob before I can heal them.

your joking right? b:shocked people around our lvl not knowing about aggro and healing? even if you speed lvl you should still know about it b:surrender makes me glad i stopped training my cleric at 79 b:shutup

you had 3 problems

1. no barb

2. stupid sins

3. no aoe DDs god damn why do ppl think sins are better than everything in FCC, sure they can stealth and kill the shades for biger pulls and solo the first boss but they are utterly worthless when dealing with mass amounts of mobs they have 2 aoes with **** range one decent psy could have have stunned the big pulls long enough for the BM to HF and then clear the rest of them, every god damn time i made a FCC squad from WC even if i was the only person with real aoe aside from the BM and they would beg and beg for sins which would drive me insane, me barb bm cleric and 2 sins, i had to do 60-75% of all the real work when it came to killing on the big pulls go throug 60-70 mp foods, replace a sin with a wiz or archer i use 25 mp food and the bug pulls take 10 sec instead of the 30 it would take with 2 god damn sinsb:angryb:angry

Mekkhala - Lost City wrote: »

well the new glitch frost craze is changing that mindset. Now more than 1 sin/bm is fail while people want as many AoE dd as possible (some refuse to even take a sin and just buff themselves with bp before going in). perhaps there is hope!

that was a typo at the end was suposed to "big" not "bug" and as for this bug i have no idea what your talking aboutb:cute but if i did yes such a thing would force aps addicts to own up to the fact that aoes are more impotent than aps in when dealing with large volumes of mobs in FCC and deltab:coolb:cool (im not kidding i've seen ppl WC for high aps ppl for a full delta run )b:faintb:cold

angellicdeity wrote: »

Pre-rising tide, Post frost nerf to be an EXP instance.


If you did frost prior to it becoming an exp instance you wouldn't go without a second cleric.

you didnt mention the part about it being *old frost* which actually was harder... though I'm sure do-able with a single cleric provided your squad was good. But no, I've never done old FC on my barb - though I did some of it on my since deleted venomancer.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The problem with parties is that either you got to fit in others' plans (this is why the 'requirements' like 5aps or R9 make me laugh) or you have to make others suit your playstyle (mostly the careful battle plan).

Sadly, it's much more of the former you encounter whenever you get in a team of strangers at this time and age, in this game.
They think they get invincible and run amok in their playground once they get a cleric (aka recklessly and blindly dashing towards their doom) only to blame others for their own incompetence and never think it may be their fault (or something out of 'force majeure'/uncontrollable bad events).

They for sure don't know what happens to you. Heck, they won't bother where you may be placed, how mobs or bosses behave or even your life bar and buffs or debuffs. They only charge and act like loudmouths and whine or rage around... their 'way of life', which is totally improductive and pathetic/pitiful overall.

Be strong, I am sure there are still good team members dwelling around, just gotta find them.

+1.... Its also good to suggest things and as they perform it, things go well

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tell me about it. It's quite scary how people don't understand simple aggro mechanics, like heal aggro, and a barb who asked me what flesh ream was.

I started crying when I saw that. =.= A barb not knowing flesh ream. It's bad enough barbs are close to extinction and there are major idiots in the remaining population.

But yes, I think it was a major error first not checking the squad like for BMs, wiz and stuff. Also not making sure everyone was geared properly. I feel loads better, thank you everyone. Didn't notice people replied to this thread, so I've been reading the one that I linked to at the start.

Wholly approved post.

QueenOfNukes - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you!

You're welcome.

Speaking of which... Here is a nice comic I found and I guess fits the thread perfectly (and the forums in general when it comes to QQing over gears and 'sins')

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/459

(that said, the 'gear' term in this comic could be related to massive cashshopping -r9, gears in packs and such-).

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

+1 for comic, fully reflects the state of this game b:surrender

Thanks. The artist is good, most of what he thinks about MMOs is true.

Seriously, it's either PvP with 'See my gears? I'm so OP, you're so lame noob, buahaha' or PvE (instances) with 'looking for squads of cashshoppers to do an instance in 30 mins tops' or 'hey, let me powerlevel you for a fee so you reach the top fast and do -either of the aforementioned-'.

For the latter, why the rush? Have they an appointment to the doctor's next? Is a MMO this demanding in terms of time and dungeon cleanup? It's not like if it was a recorded staple of competitive racing game championship or FPS tournament... But oh well.

Some people need to cool down a little, think more outside the box and be less 'srs bsns'
That said, management put timed instances now, which creates more demand for charms... Thus more or less money for them. *shrugs*