Do a claw barb hit the same as a claw bm or lower ?

AntiCreed - Lost City · July 2011

My friend told me that when barb go claw they hit so low

Tekril - Dreamweaver · July 2011

I'm no pro, but I'm pretty sure Fist & Claw Mastery gives a big advantage to BMs.

gelnd · July 2011

Read the stickied claw barb guide.

Thedarkrealm - Lost City · July 2011

since I was playing this since year one right heres where I'd start smacking people for talking about fist/claw barbs in a serious manner but this games so broke and unbalanced that you can have a failed barb with no skills be succesfull just by punching things... Still though anything with fist/claw mastery will have a slight edge on the dmg side of things

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · July 2011

Poison fang.

That is all.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · July 2011

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Poison fang.

That is all.

50% =/= 75%

a demon barb will out DD a claw bm self buffed by 1.5% with totaly equal gear self buffed dureing the 1 minute dureation of demon titans buff. Again that only applies if both have the same build, both are self buffed only, and the boss dies in the one minute of demon titans.

thumbs · July 2011

Thedarkrealm - Lost City wrote: »

since I was playing this since year one right heres where I'd start smacking people for talking about fist/claw barbs in a serious manner but this games so broke and unbalanced that you can have a failed barb with no skills be succesfull just by punching things... Still though anything with fist/claw mastery will have a slight edge on the dmg side of things

The game has always made fails successful if they spent a fortune on their toon. It doesn't make them not fail. Barbs can do some amazing things with Axes if they spend a fortune on their toon. -Things that aps toons envy.

I don't think it's so big an issue as those Claw sins in Nirvana though. Claw - Str based dmg, Dagger - Dex based dmg. More fail are the people accepting them over lower aps toons. Less than half the dmg means they die more, need more healing too which puts additional strain on a squad.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · July 2011

That is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

Ignoring the crit buff if we're talking self buff only then by using your logic....

90% > 75%

Fully buffed a BM has a TINY bit of higher damage, while a barb has higher move speed, higher hp, same pdef with higher mdef, access to solid sheild and, ofc, the crit buff from demon SoT

GohRaL - Sanctuary · July 2011

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

That is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

Ignoring the crit buff if we're talking self buff only then by using your logic....

90% > 75%

Fully buffed a BM has a TINY bit of higher damage, while a barb has higher move speed, higher hp, same pdef with higher mdef, access to solid sheild and, ofc, the crit buff from demon SoT

Im not an hiAPS barb yet but i can say something here.

If we wanna get critics buff into consideration, i wouldnt talk about SoTT but about BO instead.

im not gonna go all maths now cuz im going to bed and ive never been really good at it. Btw with BO you get to 55% crit easily, and thats for sure will out damage the self buffed BM.

This is my Current Build

and this is what im Going For

im assuming the lowest stage (2socket every piece) in which i could switch, since i wont change until i have 13k+ HP.

hope i get lucky and i manage to find some1 selling a lunar cape, cuz thats my biggest gap atm. The 99 set is easy to do, and i do vanas on regular basis

Joshcja - Sanctuary · July 2011

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

That is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

Ignoring the crit buff if we're talking self buff only then by using your logic....

90% > 75%

Fully buffed a BM has a TINY bit of higher damage, while a barb has higher move speed, higher hp, same pdef with higher mdef, access to solid sheild and, ofc, the crit buff from demon SoT

math was done when anni packs first came out by wolfgore, managed to get by the scrutiny of the entire bm and barb forum.

also, how exactly does 30%+50% = 90%?

everyone moves at 15 m/s with holy path sprints are faster than demon barbs, demon marrow > tiger form, demon bell = tiger form, mag marrow > barm m def (yes they both cannot be up at once but thats where the brain is used), solid sheild is nice however ToP/EQ serve the same purpose 9 times out of 10, the other 10% beign delta. If both classes are fully buffed wouldent the bm have acess to the crit buff as well?

w/o CC barbs lack the ability to spike DPS sparked effectivly in pve (BO takes long enough to channel cast that you actually lose damage when you factor in server lag and weapon swaping time) whole BM's have acess to HF, DB, and GS (rarely used but figured I'd throw it in there)

So for solo DPS self buffed barbs have an advantage, in any squad situation (Or if the bm has a barb alt/faction buff) the bm still holds a decent edgei n solo DD and a considerable edge in ability to boost squad DD. Barbs have higher survivability on masses of mobs bm's have higher survivability on single targets.

Thats till the barb goes 5 aps 4 item rank 9 set and out DD's the bm in squad and out survives it on solo targets makeing the bm a HF slave. Till then however the above stays true.

Lulznotwar - Lost City · July 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

math was done when anni packs first came out by wolfgore, managed to get by the scrutiny of the entire bm and barb forum.

also, how exactly does 30%+50% = 90%?

Terrible troll is terrible, seeing you've never played a barb Strength of the Titans is a 40% buff to Phys attack and 50% if you're sage.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

everyone moves at 15 m/s with holy path sprints are faster than demon barbs, demon marrow > tiger form, demon bell = tiger form, mag marrow > barm m def (yes they both cannot be up at once but thats where the brain is used), solid sheild is nice however ToP/EQ serve the same purpose 9 times out of 10,

Wrong, EQ cancels yes, but doesnt form the reduction in ALL damage, of up to around 40% ie almost a blue bubble reduction in damage.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

If both classes are fully buffed wouldent the bm have acess to the crit buff as well?

The DPS calculations are under the assumption that they are both self-buffed, in a full buffed squad the BM would out DD the barb but would lack the survivability of said barb

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

w/o CC barbs lack the ability to spike DPS sparked effectivly in pve (BO takes long enough to channel cast that you actually lose damage when you factor in server lag and weapon swaping time) whole BM's have acess to HF, DB, and GS (rarely used but figured I'd throw it in there)

Axes are often still used for PvP due to their use with skills, also Occult Ice is invaluable for claw barbs in PK as a stun during which more often than not the target will die

GohRaL - Sanctuary · July 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

also, how exactly does 30%+50% = 90%?

Demon PF = +50% wood dmg
Demon SoTT = +40% damage

so 50% + 40% = 90% for 15min

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

w/o CC barbs lack the ability to spike DPS sparked effectivly in pve (BO takes long enough to channel cast that you actually lose damage when you factor in server lag and weapon swaping time) whole BM's have acess to HF, DB, and GS (rarely used but figured I'd throw it in there)

Taking in consideration the permanent 3sparked situation:

you can manage to cast i think 2 BO, and lose maybe 2-3 sec of spark to have 55%crit at 5.0 aps for 10seconds constantly.

im positive that alone, will out DD a bm that is even buffed with SoTT during the 1minute crit buff.

if you bring in HF, you can ofc deal a lot more damage, but you lose 2 sparks. And to do that u need to use cloud eruption which prevent you to use genie skill. While us barb have that 55% chance of +100% damage every 8seconds for free, so we could use extreme poison twice for a +20% dmg for 12seconds and it would also spare some energy to use a solid shield in the same ammount of energy you spent to use HF.

I dont wanna do the maths, but i really belive that us barb can have a lil edge over claw BMs. Not to mention the grade of survavibility we have between invoke and sunder.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · July 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

math was done when anni packs first came out by wolfgore, managed to get by the scrutiny of the entire bm and barb forum.

also, how exactly does 30%+50% = 90%?

everyone moves at 15 m/s with holy path sprints are faster than demon barbs, demon marrow > tiger form, demon bell = tiger form, mag marrow > barm m def (yes they both cannot be up at once but thats where the brain is used), solid sheild is nice however ToP/EQ serve the same purpose 9 times out of 10, the other 10% beign delta. If both classes are fully buffed wouldent the bm have acess to the crit buff as well?

w/o CC barbs lack the ability to spike DPS sparked effectivly in pve (BO takes long enough to channel cast that you actually lose damage when you factor in server lag and weapon swaping time) whole BM's have acess to HF, DB, and GS (rarely used but figured I'd throw it in there)

So for solo DPS self buffed barbs have an advantage, in any squad situation (Or if the bm has a barb alt/faction buff) the bm still holds a decent edgei n solo DD and a considerable edge in ability to boost squad DD. Barbs have higher survivability on masses of mobs bm's have higher survivability on single targets.

Thats till the barb goes 5 aps 4 item rank 9 set and out DD's the bm in squad and out survives it on solo targets makeing the bm a HF slave. Till then however the above stays true.

Demon strength is 40%, not 30%.

There's no point bringing up DB and GS anymore, cancel cast has been removed so if you use DBB or GS you're not only wasting time for the skill animation but you're also wasting 2 sparks which means you have to use a chi pot which means you can't use an elemental damage apothecary. Or you use cloud eruption which means you miss out on 2 uses of tangling mire (3 with a good genie)

mdef is useless in PvE if you know how to time sparks/earthquake. BMs have a bit higher pdef with marrow and bell compared to barb shapeshifting intensity, but due to diminishing returns it doesn't make a very large difference, not nearly enough to compete with the 30% hp gained from true form.

HF is a good squad boost in damage but you're ignoring the permanent 50% pdef reduction that a barb offers.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · July 2011

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Demon strength is 40%, not 30%.

There's no point bringing up DB and GS anymore, cancel cast has been removed so if you use DBB or GS you're not only wasting time for the skill animation but you're also wasting 2 sparks which means you have to use a chi pot which means you can't use an elemental damage apothecary. Or you use cloud eruption which means you miss out on 2 uses of tangling mire (3 with a good genie)

mdef is useless in PvE if you know how to time sparks/earthquake. BMs have a bit higher pdef with marrow and bell compared to barb shapeshifting intensity, but due to diminishing returns it doesn't make a very large difference, not nearly enough to compete with the 30% hp gained from true form.

HF is a good squad boost in damage but you're ignoring the permanent 50% pdef reduction that a barb offers.

DB = dragons bane

GohRaL - Sanctuary · July 2011

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

DB = dragons bane

ok instant cast, but you get a +25% chance to do +100%dmg while suffering CONSTANTLY -50%dmg for 30sec

taking in consideration you have 50% crit more or less in those 30sec and the damage is 1000:

1st attack deal 500 (normal debuffed)
2nd attack deal 1000 (crit debuffed)

whats the point of that skill ? im not getting it, this have to be wrong

Drunken_Chu - Dreamweaver · July 2011

Dragon Bane can be purified. Triple spark purifies.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · July 2011

Yea, DB can be purified.

It can only be used once every like 5 minutes though, that's like once every nirvana run.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · July 2011

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yea, DB can be purified.

It can only be used once every like 5 minutes though, that's like once every nirvana run.

Works wonderfully as an opener in long TT's though

KAZMOENEEK - Heavens Tear · July 2011

Claw barbs woot!! I restated after being sage for over a year and I love it.I feel more useful and actually now use my sage spark lol,but today I turn my sage fairy to demon so I can get me 5.0 spark ohhhhh yeah!

Furries - Dreamweaver · July 2011

under our own buffs we hit harder than bm do under their own.

however when both are fully buffed bm's hit harder.

although this is all according to my math i don't actually have claws for my barb nor do i plan on getting them.

Traz - Dreamweaver · July 2011

From the +10 bm's I normally run nirvana with I do pretty much same damage in fully buffed squads. It's not really much of a difference either way to care who actually does more.

Do a claw barb hit the same as a claw bm or lower ?

Comments

Categories