PWI listen to your players.

Pandaberr - Lost City
Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
edited June 2011 in General Discussion
We don't need new content, new fashion, new mounts, and resales on PACKS. We need a dedicated effort to years old bugs and glitches, and a period for the economy to recover. You've steadily tipped the balance of the game in favor of heavy cash shoppers so much that anyone who plays this game freely and doesn't spend all their time merchanting or farming is in fear of getting smacked in the face by someones wallet every time they step out of safe zone.

You want to still put stuff on sale? Put items from boutique on sale that don't give the economy viagra.
Post edited by Pandaberr - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    What they need is to tell PW Beijing to fire the current devs and bring in new ones that don't suck. That's the only way any bugs are gonna get fixed. -_-

    It'd help if PWE weren't trying to milk this game for all it's worth just to pay for their own software. >_> Most of which looks pretty terrible, tbh.
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    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

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  • Tuiat - Sanctuary
    Tuiat - Sanctuary Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    It won't happen.

    It just...won't.

    b:surrender
  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    We all know it won't. Which kind of makes us some really dumb sheep to continue playing.
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  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    anyone who plays this game freely and doesn't spend all their time merchanting or farming is in fear of getting smacked in the face by someones wallet every time they step out of safe zone.
    ~3 hrs per week merchanting != all my time.

    I waste more time reading the forums than I do merchanting.
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    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • NiightmareXz - Harshlands
    NiightmareXz - Harshlands Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ~3 hrs per week merchanting != all my time.

    I waste more time reading the forums than I do merchanting.

    let's talk about the normal people, who don't play this game to get an economic high.


    I'm not dissing you, I'm actually amazed at what you can do. but a lot of players don't want to waste their time with that stuff, and would rather enjoy the game normally. Although I'm sure you enjoy merching a lot, most people play this game for the actual... lol, content.
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  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    let's Talk About The Normal People, Who Don't Play This Game To Get An Economic High.


    I'm Not Dissing You, I'm Actually Amazed At What You Can Do. But A Lot Of Players Don't Want To Waste Their Time With That Stuff, And Would Rather Enjoy The Game Normally. Although I'm Sure You Enjoy Merching A Lot, Most People Play This Game For The Actual... Lol, Content.

    Katie! <3 Y U No On Msn?
  • NiightmareXz - Harshlands
    NiightmareXz - Harshlands Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Katie! <3 Y U No On Msn?

    I'm lazy. b:shutup


    Actually I am not in the talking mood. I post on here and vid inbetween posts. I'll get on when I'm better
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  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I'm lazy. b:shutup


    Actually I am not in the talking mood. I post on here and vid inbetween posts. I'll get on when I'm better

    Anything I can do to help? D:
  • Dralighte - Harshlands
    Dralighte - Harshlands Posts: 1,540 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Dont ask me how, but I knew we would have a pack sale... and I wont put a buck into it ;)

    if players stop wasting their money in this game, the pack sales will mean nothing
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    Kylin: thrashtalk everyone, win TWs, serious faction -Dralighte
  • Yuniryu - Raging Tide
    Yuniryu - Raging Tide Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Dont ask me how, but I knew we would have a pack sale... and I wont put a buck into it ;)

    if players stop wasting their money in this game, the pack sales will mean nothing

    So true. The only way pve would change if they lose their profits. That can happen if we all stop buying xd packs and gold coin. xD.

    Well i would like to believe but doesn't matter :O.
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  • brazenbusboy
    brazenbusboy Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Those of us who 'mostly' play this game with a minimum of cash shopping and powerleveling seem to be in a shrinking minority. PW is addicted to the cash infusion they get from cash shop items, and are gettng pretty blatent about turning the whole thing into pay to win. Trust me, their staff put more time into thinking up diabolical ways to sell game advancement as in 'how do we sell the least amount for the most cash'. Look how they have introduced what is basically gamboling into the process of getting high demand OP items. You see with the mystery box system, you never really know what the probability is of you getting the item you want. It could be 100 to 1 this week, but next week due to slow sales in other areas, PW might jack it up to 200 to 1. Is a merchants dream, a suckers bet.

    I get the impression there are two entities at work. The basic game world, mechanics and storyline are developed and purchased from a development house or department. Once it leaves there, little if any change can be implemented. The second department takes over which runs the daily operation and defines the in game economy and is primarily responsible for selling players stuff. So when players talk about fixing bugs etc, they just mumble and hum untill someone changes the topic. From their standpoint the game is working as designed, it is raking in tons of money for them.

    Because of this don't hold your breath for any significant changes to this system. The only way you will ever see a better game is if a competitor creates one.

    I am hoping that PW is the first and most successful of the F2P but Pay to Win business modle, but that evenually another model that is somewhere in the middle between subscription and P2W will come along. But untill then, enjoy what you can as long as you can side step the cash shop tools.
    Just some guy
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I get the impression there are two entities at work. The basic game world, mechanics and storyline are developed and purchased from a development house or department. Once it leaves there, little if any change can be implemented. The second department takes over which runs the daily operation and defines the in game economy and is primarily responsible for selling players stuff. So when players talk about fixing bugs etc, they just mumble and hum untill someone changes the topic. From their standpoint the game is working as designed, it is raking in tons of money for them.
    For someone who joined so recently and appears to have a fair amount of intelligence, it's strange that you speculate on all this even though all those things are explicitly known. :P ijs.

    PW Beijing is the dev house, and many of us here believe that they've gone through several sets of devs (each of them being increasingly incompetent and unfamiliar with the original code). The chinese version of PW (often called Wanmei) is the first version to receive changes and updates. We, PWI, are usually the second. This is because PWE, the company that runs the game here in the US, is (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong here) a subsidiary of the main PW company from China, rather than just a licensee. However, there are a good handful of licensees who run PW in their regions, and who get severely delayed game updates (and, I've heard, have even worse customer service).

    tl;dr: We need devs that don't suck. x_x
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ~3 hrs per week merchanting != all my time.

    I waste more time reading the forums than I do merchanting.

    I actually just discovered your merchanting guide, last night. And spent a few hours reading and thinking over it. It was the only reason I put that tidbit about merchanting into the OP.
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  • FuriousRico - Harshlands
    FuriousRico - Harshlands Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    No cashshoppers = no game deal with it. And yes making the game a little better for the non cashshopping players would be awsome for a change b:surrender like fixing the bugs that the tideborn expansion brought... instead of daily pack sales and or rep sales following with d.orbs sales, just to make your pockets full, they should pay a little more atention to what the bigger masses of the gamers say.b:scorn
  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I'm not saying get rid of cash shoppers. That would completely kill any sort of profit for them, and would ruin them just because they couldn't pay the bills. The cash shop is a great idea. And cash shoppers SHOULD get an edge over non cash shopping players. But not SO MUCH that some who cash shops all the time, should pound someone who doesn't cash shop, or uses the cash shop moderately, beats their face into the ground 9 times out of 10.

    I want to look pretty, cash shop.

    I want to go a little bit faster than you, cash shop.

    I don't want to pot as much as you, cash shop.

    I want to beat you in pvp, skill. Not cash shop.
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  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I actually just discovered your merchanting guide, last night. And spent a few hours reading and thinking over it. It was the only reason I put that tidbit about merchanting into the OP.
    Well, to be honest, I personally think merchanting is OP. b:chuckle

    Back when it was letting me just afford common things like Charms, teleports, skills, regular 2-star gear upgrades, etc..., I thought it was a great way to supplement my in-game efforts.

    But then when I started to get into cash-shop merchanting, and began to realize that because PWI is constantly adding/removing cash-shop sales you can make absurd amounts of coin without actually playing the game, it just started to feel kinda wrong.

    I mean, the main way to progress ought to be from actual in-game effort, right?
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    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Well, to be honest, I personally think merchanting is OP. b:chuckle

    Back when it was letting me just afford common things like Charms, teleports, skills, regular 2-star gear upgrades, etc..., I thought it was a great way to supplement my in-game efforts.

    But then when I started to get into cash-shop merchanting, and began to realize that because PWI is constantly adding/removing cash-shop sales you can make absurd amounts of coin without actually playing the game, it just started to feel kinda wrong.

    I mean, the main way to progress ought to be from actual in-game effort, right?

    It should be. But the sales hugely inflate the economy. So every time you're able to make more and more profit. And since the economy is inflated, prices of items become inflated. And If you want to be able to afford end game gear, without putting real money into the game, you need to merchant.

    A few weeks ago someone on WC said "How many Demon skills do you need to evolve your faerie?" and I replied back, "Don't you miss the days when having a faerie at all meant you knew what you were doing?".

    I'd love to be back at those days. When having your faerie was an accomplishment of true work in game. Not that you had some hypers, and frosted your way to 89 in a short time.
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  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Well, to be honest, I personally think merchanting is OP. b:chuckle

    Back when it was letting me just afford common things like Charms, teleports, skills, regular 2-star gear upgrades, etc..., I thought it was a great way to supplement my in-game efforts.

    But then when I started to get into cash-shop merchanting, and began to realize that because PWI is constantly adding/removing cash-shop sales you can make absurd amounts of coin without actually playing the game, it just started to feel kinda wrong.

    I mean, the main way to progress ought to be from actual in-game effort, right?

    ... True that.

    And that's why they need to nerf merchanting.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    For someone who joined so recently and appears to have a fair amount of intelligence, it's strange that you speculate on all this even though all those things are explicitly known. :P ijs.

    PW Beijing is the dev house, and many of us here believe that they've gone through several sets of devs (each of them being increasingly incompetent and unfamiliar with the original code). The chinese version of PW (often called Wanmei) is the first version to receive changes and updates. We, PWI, are usually the second. This is because PWE, the company that runs the game here in the US, is (and somebody correct me if I'm wrong here) a subsidiary of the main PW company from China, rather than just a licensee. However, there are a good handful of licensees who run PW in their regions, and who get severely delayed game updates (and, I've heard, have even worse customer service).

    tl;dr: We need devs that don't suck. x_x

    Lol take PW Brazil. All these kids moved over to our servers since they are still stuck without seekers and mystics. Most of them can't speak english and just run around **** with other's quests and stuff cuz they have no idea wtf the game they are playing is about.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    If they remove packs for even 2 weeks I bet there will be people QQing on here about the lack of pack sales. Wouldn't that be funny to see again?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
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    Qui: b:dirty
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    It should be. But the sales hugely inflate the economy. So every time you're able to make more and more profit.
    And that's why they need to nerf merchanting.
    Even though I profit greatly from merchanting, I agree it should be nerfed. In fact, I know exactly how to do it.

    The profitability of merchanting is directly related to the amount instability in the in-game economy. When prices are unstable, merchants win. When prices are stable, everybody else wins.

    There was a period just before the first General Summer's Sale in which the cash-shop sales had become very predictable and stable, and thus merchanting profits had dropped. It was at the point where you could earn more much money farming than by merchanting.

    But of course, then came General Summer's Sale, followed by 60% Pack Sales, followed by 65% Dragon Orb Sales, followed by etc..., etc..., etc... Prices de-stabalized again, and merchanting profits shot right back up to the top.

    However, I suspect that what's good for in-game merchants (ie. unstable prices and the resulting buying frenzies) is probably also very good for PWI's cash-flow. To nerf us, they'd have to nerf their own business model too.
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  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I actually suggested a way to help with the economy, but it was ignored :(
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  • Liba - Heavens Tear
    Liba - Heavens Tear Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    and resales on PACKS..

    The defanition of a sale is thhe lowering of a normal price... aka, something would have to be at that price for more than 50% of the time (or a majority of the time)... and that's not 1 gold anymore >3 b:bye bye-bye economy
    Haters gunna love this ^
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  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011


    The defanition of a sale is thhe lowering of a normal price... aka, something would have to be at that price for more than 50% of the time (or a majority of the time)... and that's not 1 gold anymore >3 b:bye bye-bye economy

    Technically. This is a resale of packs. Because for a while it was just Easy Rider Packs on sale at 60% off. Tiger Packs were 1 gold in the cash shop until yesterday.
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  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I'm not saying get rid of cash shoppers. That would completely kill any sort of profit for them, and would ruin them just because they couldn't pay the bills. The cash shop is a great idea. And cash shoppers SHOULD get an edge over non cash shopping players. But not SO MUCH that some who cash shops all the time, should pound someone who doesn't cash shop, or uses the cash shop moderately, beats their face into the ground 9 times out of 10.

    I want to look pretty, cash shop.

    I want to go a little bit faster than you, cash shop.

    I don't want to pot as much as you, cash shop.

    I want to beat you in pvp, skill. Not cash shop.
    This reminds me of something I saw quoted the other day... something about how PWE intended to have the CS make money primarily off of low-impact "items of convenience."

    Oh, the good old days... ._.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited June 2011

    However, I suspect that what's good for in-game merchants (ie. unstable prices and the resulting buying frenzies) is probably also very good for PWI's cash-flow. To nerf us, they'd have to nerf their own business model too.

    Other words. It will NEVER happen. They earning too much from packs and economy inflation. They became too greedy to cut their income. It will be even worse than is now for sure. It was very intelligent idea put options to get coins from packs. They make an inflation circle. More packs=more inflation thanks to banker notes.
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  • Pandaberr - Lost City
    Pandaberr - Lost City Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    They could always tax the boutique to remove coin from the system. 5% of the current lowest price gold is selling for in AH for each gold used in the boutique. 1.4m for gold, 70k tax. Use 100 gold in boutique, pay 7m in coin. If you can't afford that, sell some gold in AH. Tax would go down with gold prices, eventually it'd balance out.
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  • ufop
    ufop Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    pwi only listen to your card nuff said
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Other words. It will NEVER happen. They earning too much from packs and economy inflation. They became too greedy to cut their income.
    To be fair to PWI, though, it's possible that they really had no choice but to abandon their original, "We only sell vanity and convenience items in our cash-shop!" business model.

    When they started up, the whole F2P-MMO market was in a bubble, and promising to not flood their game with cash-shop purchasable elite items was what was supposed to set them apart from the pack.

    But the MMO bubble collapsed, and bankruptcies are everywhere. Most MMO games have died out and been shut-down, but meanwhile PWI is still opening more servers and churning out more games and more content.

    So, as much as I feel the game would be better off balance-wise without the win-Packs in the cash-shop, I do have to credit PWI for running a successful and healthy MMO that they still keep updating with new content (heck, we just had a brand new event 1 hr. ago) while so many others are failing.
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    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    To be fair to PWI, though, it's possible that they really had no choice but to abandon their original, "We only sell vanity and convenience items in our cash-shop!" business model.

    When they started up, the whole F2P-MMO market was in a bubble, and promising to not flood their game with cash-shop purchasable elite items was what was supposed to set them apart from the pack.

    But the MMO bubble collapsed, and bankruptcies are everywhere. Most MMO games have died out and been shut-down, but meanwhile PWI is still opening more servers and churning out more games and more content.

    So, as much as I feel the game would be better off balance-wise without the win-Packs in the cash-shop, I do have to credit PWI for running a successful and healthy MMO that they still keep updating with new content (heck, we just had a brand new event 1 hr. ago) while so many others are failing.

    Thank you for that perspective, it kind of helps to think of it that way. I see a reasonable motive now in some of the business practices....Although I will admit this delaying of fixes is quite irritating to say the least >.>