Dark Death Thorn

Abstractive - Archosaur
Abstractive - Archosaur Posts: 1,232 Arc User
edited October 2011 in General Discussion
Have any of you quenched a Dark Death Thorn to specifically get one of these setups:

a)Sacrifficial Strike, -0.05 int, -0.05 int;
b)Attack Level +20, -0.1 int; ?


If you did, how many times did you quench the daggers to get one of the above setups of stats ?

I'm personally going for the attack level cast.
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Post edited by Abstractive - Archosaur on
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  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    My friend has

    Atk Lvl +20

    Dex +18

    -.05 Interval

    And i believe it was 7 recasts to get this setup.

    I saw them in action in Frost and they are extremely hard hitting.
  • Abstractive - Archosaur
    Abstractive - Archosaur Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My friend has

    Atk Lvl +20

    Dex +18

    -.05 Interval

    And i believe it was 7 recasts to get this setup.

    I saw them in action in Frost and they are extremely hard hitting.

    Think you could get your friend to post a screenshot of the daggers' stats ?
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  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »
    Think you could get your friend to post a screenshot of the daggers' stats ?

    Im only on forums atm. Not on computer with my game.

    When i get on i can ask her to post a SS or i can have her link me the dags and ill SS them. I can play in a couple hours or so.
  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I believe it was calculated that R9 outdamages all other possible weapons. After that Nirvana and R8, R8 with same APS as Nirvana being slightly lower.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • Abstractive - Archosaur
    Abstractive - Archosaur Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I believe it was calculated that R9 outdamages all other possible weapons. After that Nirvana and R8, R8 with same APS as Nirvana being slightly lower.

    I didn't ask what outdamages what. b:chuckle

    I am aware of the fact that Catastrophe Stinger is number one, but I just can't bring myself to put that much free time into getting it for free. b:faint
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  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »
    I didn't ask what outdamages what. b:chuckle

    I am aware of the fact that Catastrophe Stinger is number one, but I just can't bring myself to put that much free time into getting it for free. b:faint

    Of course. I am just sayin that, so it's out, xD. You can farm R8 and get similar damage with a little lower APS. When you got R8 top and weapons, you can still farm Nirvana. That at least is how I am going to do it.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • Abstractive - Archosaur
    Abstractive - Archosaur Posts: 1,232 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Of course. I am just sayin that, so it's out, xD. You can farm R8 and get similar damage with a little lower APS. When you got R8 top and weapons, you can still farm Nirvana. That at least is how I am going to do it.

    Bought mount for low, sold for high. Rinse and repeat. That's how I got rank 8 on the first rep sale.

    I am now saving for raptures to make the Dark Death Thorn, but this whole recasting thing is annoying the hell out of me. What if I have to recast it 100 times to get the 20 Attack Level one ?
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  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »
    Bought mount for low, sold for high. Rinse and repeat. That's how I got rank 8 on the first rep sale.

    I am now saving for raptures to make the Dark Death Thorn, but this whole recasting thing is annoying the hell out of me. What if I have to recast it 100 times to get the 20 Attack Level one ?

    Well that is how NV works. You could as well try to craft normal axes at the blacksmith with zerk. You might get zerk but no sockets. You might get 3* 2 soc but without zerk. It's a game of luck and money making.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • SinFulGodX - Sanctuary
    SinFulGodX - Sanctuary Posts: 347 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Abstractive - Archosaur wrote: »
    Bought mount for low, sold for high. Rinse and repeat. That's how I got rank 8 on the first rep sale.

    I am now saving for raptures to make the Dark Death Thorn, but this whole recasting thing is annoying the hell out of me. What if I have to recast it 100 times to get the 20 Attack Level one ?

    I cant even seem to get enough for rank 8, forget past that...

    And i wanna eventually be 5.0 b:sad b:cry
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    A friend of mine got Sac Strike and -0.05int x2 after only two quenches. .___.
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  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I believe it was calculated that R9 outdamages all other possible weapons. After that Nirvana and R8, R8 with same APS as Nirvana being slightly lower.

    I thought it was

    R9
    G15 Nirvana with GoF -int
    Hitman Legends
    R8
    G13 Nirvana
  • Synta - Dreamweaver
    Synta - Dreamweaver Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I thought it was

    R9
    G15 Nirvana with GoF -int
    Hitman Legends
    R8
    G13 Nirvana

    Ehh not quite as simple, depends on how much aps gear you have, and sage or demon

    full r9 gear has pretty low dps, for instance - just not enough aps
    r8 are hard hitting, but I just don't think they can compare with 5aps nirvy...

    Edit:
    ack, going off-topic there; but I've never seen a double -.05 on DW, not sure there are any o.o
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  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I thought it was

    R9
    G15 Nirvana with GoF -int
    Hitman Legends
    R8
    G13 Nirvana

    True, I forgot the Hitman legends. And yeah, G15 NV will out-dps R8 if the stats are good. I basically meant the same as you did write, with the exception of forgetting the Hitman's.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Synta - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ehh not quite as simple, depends on how much aps gear you have, and sage or demon

    full r9 gear has pretty low dps, for instance - just not enough aps
    r8 are hard hitting, but I just don't think they can compare with 5aps nirvy...

    Assuming full interval gear with demon spark.

    perhaps you're right, I was saying R8 out DPS G13 based on somestuff on the sin forums a while back. I know for certain that Hitman Legends out DPS G13 NV though.
  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Synta - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ehh not quite as simple, depends on how much aps gear you have, and sage or demon

    full r9 gear has pretty low dps, for instance - just not enough aps
    r8 are hard hitting, but I just don't think they can compare with 5aps nirvy...

    Edit:
    ack, going off-topic there; but I've never seen a double -.05 on DW, not sure there are any o.o

    APS =/= DPS

    It was calculated somewhere that R9, even with lower APS then NV15 will deal more DPS.


    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    You forgot the 30 attack levels in R9 (and jonas blessing)
    Why do you have 117 str in your calc?
    For my calculations i used 93 str, 417 dex (to keep your helm).
    and you forgot dagger devotion.

    And you're missing 1 big factor. GoF (assuming it procs 30% of the time)

    Unsparked:

    R9:
    (((8110+9983)/2)*1.60)= 14,474
    14,474*2.86= 41,396
    41,396*1.30= 53,814

    Nirvana:
    (((7301+8693)/2)*1.30)= 10,396
    10,396*4= 41,584



    Sparked:

    R9:
    (((16750+20618)/2)*1.60)= 29,894
    29,894*4= 119,577
    119,577*1.30= 155,450

    Nirvana:
    (((15191+18088)/2)*1.30)= 21,631
    21,631*5= 108,156

    Also this is all without DoT's in armor. To answer your question yes use dots in all your armor, you can keep the vit stones in your cape cos they cost 30m~ that's fine.
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You can further seperate the dps total by adding about 28% to the rank 9 daggers. Attack levels work like compound interest so +30 atk levels for jones blessing and +30 atk levels from weapon isn't honestly a 60% increase. Its more like a 58% increase. Since Vana gets the jones blessing for +30% and R9 gets about +58% there would be an even bigger gap in the numbers.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    APS =/= DPS

    It was calculated somewhere that R9, even with lower APS then NV15 will deal more DPS.


    stop selling rank 9

    rank 8 can out DPS g13 nirvana easily if you have all the other interval gear.

    if you are going for specific stats on a randomly statted weapon, be prepared to spend A LOT of money. you can re-roll 100 times and not get 20 attack levels at all. never mind getting attack levels with 2x -.5, figure out the odds of each stat and multiply them, for instance if -.05 has a 1 in 20 chance of showing up in each of the 2 random stat slots and +20 attack levels has 1 in 50 chance (i dont know, just guessing but i heard its around there)

    5% chance
    5% chance
    2% chance

    .05 x.05 x.02 = .00005

    odds are 1 in 20,000 those arent very good odds.

    if you doint aim as high, like just 1x -.05 1 random stat and hope its good and 20 attack levels, things start to look a little better.

    .05 x 2 (because -.05 can show up in either randon slot)
    .1 x .02 = .002 = 1 in 500 chance

    of course, im not an archer, nor do i know the exact chance of each stat showing up
    but it seems like GoF and +20 are around the same, low, chance of showing uo

    this guy actually documented all his recasts
    http://superhebbe.com/claws/

    if your trying to get specific stats with nirvana, get ready to spend out the nose.
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  • NOTREAL - Archosaur
    NOTREAL - Archosaur Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well that is how NV works. You could as well try to craft normal axes at the blacksmith with zerk. You might get zerk but no sockets. You might get 3* 2 soc but without zerk. It's a game of luck and money making.

    Its only difficult for people aiming for aps allover the place :/

    Aside that, whatever you get is liable to be good, most weapons have a choice of a proc, avanced of the same proc and attack levels. The secondary adds are all positive excluding Magic for Phy classes I would guess. Its got nothing on crafting at a blacksmith to get Zerk axes. Holy god thatd be hell. Youd probably spend more.
  • Typhyse - Sanctuary
    Typhyse - Sanctuary Posts: 3,469 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    OP noob axes anyone?
    Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
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  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    stop selling rank 9

    rank 8 can out DPS g13 nirvana easily if you have all the other interval gear.

    Don't think so now I checked the maths.

    Nirvana

    http://pwcalc.com/798df0f4de1fb34f

    (13156+16083)/2*1.29*5

    =94295.775

    R8

    http://pwcalc.com/318789e97d8de69d

    (13758+20798)/2*1.32*4

    =91227.84

    But if you add rings:

    Nirvana

    http://pwcalc.com/0592d707dcd1a7aa

    (15314+18241)/2*1.36*5

    =114087

    R8

    http://pwcalc.com/7a0de769a5541dd9

    (15915+22957)/2*1.39*4

    =108064.16

    Difference is even greater.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I know for certain that Hitman Legends out DPS G13 NV though.

    No they don't...

    Hitman Legend +12 = 1230 - 1792 = 1511 average
    G13 Nirv +12 = 1390 - 1691 = 1540 average

    In terms of DPS:
    1) G15 Nirvana with GoF -int
    2) R9
    3) G15 Nirvana with Sac Strike -int
    4) G13 Nirvana
    5) Hitman Legends
    6) R8
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  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No they don't...

    Yeah, at +12 then g15 refine bonus does show...
  • NOTREAL - Archosaur
    NOTREAL - Archosaur Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No they don't...

    Hitman Legend +12 = 1230 - 1792 = 1511 average
    G13 Nirv +12 = 1390 - 1691 = 1540 average

    In terms of DPS:
    1) G15 Nirvana with GoF -int
    2) R9
    3) G15 Nirvana with Sac Strike -int
    4) G13 Nirvana
    5) Hitman Legends
    6) R8

    I know many users of the 1st cast nirv@5aps and they cant keep aggro off a 4aps Hitman user.... Try re-calcing that with just+10 (What people are likely to have, +12 on 1st cast is just lolworthy) im pretty sure it will re-arrange that table a bit, that or something is really ****ed up with all the 5aps 1st cast users ive seen b:chuckle
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    NOTREAL - Archosaur wrote: »
    I know many users of the 1st cast nirv@5aps and they cant keep aggro off a 4aps Hitman user.... Try re-calcing that with just+10 (What people are likely to have, +12 on 1st cast is just lolworthy) im pretty sure it will re-arrange that table a bit, that or something is really ****ed up with all the 5aps 1st cast users ive seen b:chuckle

    Even at +10 the hitman is only 15 more weapon attack than G13 (g13 is more at +11). Noone is going to notice that.
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    APS =/= DPS

    It was calculated somewhere that R9, even with lower APS then NV15 will deal more DPS.

    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    fixed, you do the math and try, g15 will out dps the r9 with those adds.

    I'll do it for you, but correct me if i'm wrong. (this being done with GoF at 30% proc, also being done sparked cos single pve, when are you not sparked?)

    Dark Death Thorns
    (((21,312-26008)/2)*1.59)= 37,619.4
    ((37,619.4*1.30)*1.32)= 64,554.9
    64,554.9*5= 322,774.5 DPS


    R9 Daggers
    (((21,735+25822)/2)*1.89)= 44,941.4
    ((44,941.4*1.30)*1.33)= 77,703.6
    77,703.6*4= 310,814.5 DPS

    Just incase you couldn't tell
    (((min attack+max attack)/2)*attack level)=a
    ((a*GoF Proc)*crit rate)=b
    b*aps=c

    pardon me?
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  • NOTREAL - Archosaur
    NOTREAL - Archosaur Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Even at +10 the hitman is only 15 more weapon attack than G13 (g13 is more at +11). Noone is going to notice that.

    Then every 5aps +10 1st caster Ive seen must have 150 vit or something then. O_O
  • Ashivas - Dreamweaver
    Ashivas - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,293 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    From what i've seen someone did i think a ton of recasts and listed what he got each time, he got +20 atk lvl 1% of the time, and -.05 int 11% of the time.

    Do the math... It'll be a while.
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  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Even at +10 the hitman is only 15 more weapon attack than G13 (g13 is more at +11). Noone is going to notice that.

    Yet that mere 15 weapon attack will get multiplied by mastery, spark and dex.
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Ashivas - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    From what i've seen someone did i think a ton of recasts and listed what he got each time, he got +20 atk lvl 1% of the time, and -.05 int 11% of the time.

    Do the math... It'll be a while.

    it was superhebbe on claws, out of 90 recasts he got +20 attack 1 time, and advanced proc 0 times. and used something like 900 raptures total.
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  • Vasto_Lorde - Raging Tide
    Vasto_Lorde - Raging Tide Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    o_o can u get 5 aps base with dark death thorn...j/w cuz im nab and all :3
  • NOTREAL - Archosaur
    NOTREAL - Archosaur Posts: 194 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Vasto_Lorde - Raging Tide wrote: »
    o_o can u get 5 aps base with dark death thorn...j/w cuz im nab and all :3

    If you got -.05 int on it twice yes. Good luck with that.
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