Brambling Clerics? O.o

starmiaz
starmiaz Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2011 in Venomancer
I was in fc and had brambled the BM, Seeker and Sins (no barb) when the lvl 96 cleric asked for bramble, i assumed he was joking and laughed it off but he asked again "cause it looks cool and all" to which i replied "yeah until u get ganked lol"

He then insisted i bramble him because he needed it for reflecting the damage from the mobs and he always got bramble from the other veno's, i explained it was a buff for melee classes (apart from some exceptions) not for clerics or ranged classes and that it would attract aggro to him from the mobs.

He would'nt accept my explanation and was saying snarky stuff like "veno amp!" even though i had been every time cooldown was over :(

Anyway i finally gave in and brambled him after warning him one more time. Messenger of Fear boss was down to 200k when the seeker pulled the mobs, the cleric happened to be standing by the door and the mobs surrounded and killed him.

My point is apart from if the cleric is high level and tanking eg. recent event bosses, is there a time that the cleric should be brambled? I don't pretend to be an expert and i'm wondering if i was somehow mistaken.

Thanks
Post edited by starmiaz on

Comments

  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Bramble does not "attract" aggro, barring the rare circumstance your bramble reflect on a phys AOE boss does more damage to the boss than the person(s) the cleric is healing, which is nigh impossible. The only thing it might do is help keep aggro already established to the cleric, in which case, one would aptly ask why the cleric got aggro to begin with.

    Some clerics nowadays do it just to spite other clerics in the past who flipped the **** out when they got brambled, and would either demand a duel and be purged, or relog from the game.

    If the cleric asks you for bramble, might as well give it to them. It does help, albeit not very much, in terms of reflecting phys AOE damage (Oceania and possibly Holeen from FF) on certain bosses. However, for the sake of not running into one of those bat**** crazy raging clerics, don't do it unless they ask for it, or just ask yourself if they want it (although surely some smart *** will tell you it's not a wise idea even though you already know).
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    if they outright ask for bramble, they get bramble. up to them what they do with it after that.

    if a cleric gets aggro... i was about to say bramble really doesn't make it that much harder to get aggro back off them, but i actually haven't tried to find out, not seriously. is the aggro add from a couple of reflected melee hits greater or less than heal aggro?

    (what i'd like is an easy way to purge my own bramble off of someone if they decide they don't want it. but it seems i can't purge a squad member, at least not easily. do i need to switch some protection off, or be whitenamed, or leave squad, or what?)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    If the cleric is there as DD, it's not bad. Clerics have many skills like Wings of Protection, Sage Vanguard Spirit, Plume Shell, Expel, Guardian Light, in addition to their buffs and self heals which make them great at being able to take some hits if prepared.
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Basically what the others said. If you want a more detailed discussion, you can find it here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=895682

    FWIW, if I'm playing my cleric, I'll log my veno specifically to bramble her. If the cleric is getting hit by melee attacks, they might as well get the free hit back. It makes the target go down faster ultimately making it safer for the cleric. If bramble is keeping aggro when a cleric is trying to get rid of it, there's usually something else going on much more fail than bramble.

    @Lenie: You can always duel them to purge them. It's a bit of a hassle, but it's good for those who act like the hoola-hoop is equivalent to amp.
  • brazenbusboy
    brazenbusboy Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Just the other day, this power-leveled 80 barbarian asked me "whats bramble" when I asked him if he wanted it.

    Gotta love the tools that rush to endgame.
    Just some guy
  • Sirrobert - Dreamweaver
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,395 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Not like bramble is going to make any difference in keeping aggro on the cleric or not in a big FC pull.

    If a squishy get's aggro there, the squishy is dead. End of story.
    No charm or crabmeat is going to save you from 100 mobs all poking you at once
    9 out of 10 voices in my head say I'm not crazy... the 10th is singing the music of tetris
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Not like bramble is going to make any difference in keeping aggro on the cleric or not in a big FC pull.

    If a squishy get's aggro there, the squishy is dead. End of story.
    No charm or crabmeat is going to save you from 100 mobs all poking you at once
    This is wrong. Plume shell can prevent an insta-kill on fail pulls (plume shell as puller is coming in, put up BB), as long as the cleric is smart enough to eat an MP pot, otherwise BB would drop once the mobs hit due to cleric's MP pool being emptied. Expel is also a good temporary solution, which I prefer when dealing with suicide pullers (noob barbs, or other classes who tend to die pretty quickly outside BB with a room of mobs). Besides that, I agree, clerics tend to die when they get aggro otherwise.
  • starmiaz
    starmiaz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Bramble does not "attract" aggro

    I'm sorry i'm still a bit confused, if i have bramble on or my herc has reflect on and i am running a little bit behind at rock pull the mobs which are resetting latch straight onto me but if i dont have it on they leave me alone.
    clerics in the past who flipped the **** out when they got brambled

    I was about lvl40 before i realised i should ask first before i brambled people, had a cleric go off his brain at me about stupid veno's who shouldn't bramble clerics and that if he died it would be my fault b:sad
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    starmiaz wrote: »
    I'm sorry i'm still a bit confused, if i have bramble on or my herc has reflect on and i am running a little bit behind at rock pull the mobs which are resetting latch straight onto me but if i dont have it on they leave me alone.
    Rock = Rockenwolves?

    Just to point out, when things hit a herc with bramble with melee or phys magic damage, bramble reflects damage. However, it does not attract aggro. If you were standing in front of the herc in the same area, if you were closer to the mobs and would draw their aggro normally, you would not draw their aggro less because the herc next to you had bramble.

    If what you mean is, by "attract", if you do Rockenwolves and have the herc running around after each mob, drawing reflect damage while occasionally healing, and possibly getting a NG/nova off then you're right and this is a common herc zhenning tecnique.

    And yeah, for every veno's sake I hope they read these forums before rolling one to avoid the crazy nutcase clerics that flip out when getting brambled.
  • starmiaz
    starmiaz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Rock = Rockenwolves?
    oh sorry what i meant was the pull before Dreadindra where everyone runs to the rocks in the far corner and jumps up on them wating for the mobs to reset, it doesn't always seem to work.

    I have noticed i don't get targeted by them if bramble is off and there is no reflect on herc, if i have either activated the mobs won't reset and attack me until they get killed.

    Thanks to everyone for your advice :)
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    starmiaz wrote: »
    I'm sorry i'm still a bit confused, if i have bramble on or my herc has reflect on and i am running a little bit behind at rock pull the mobs which are resetting latch straight onto me but if i dont have it on they leave me alone.

    Please to be learning how aggro works. Please. It's your most vital skill as a venomancer.
    http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php?title=Aggro

    Bramble does nothing until a mob uses a melee attack against the thing that has it. This is actually really useful, it lets you safely single-pull with a brambled herc into the middle of a mass of magic mobs. (Ok, it's not often useful, but it's handy sometimes)

    The amount of aggro generated by a reflected attack from a bramble is roughly the same as that of doing a normal melee attack . So it is pretty substantial compared to heal aggro.

    But for bramble to draw aggro they already have to be being hit by the mob.


    So yeah, it's actually fairly safe to bramble clerics most of the time, and some of them like it. The general rule of 'ask first' is a good one though.
  • Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary
    Hazumi_chan - Sanctuary Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Just bramble who asks for it...
    If they manage to get agro and the tank can't get it off them soon enough because of it... well.. bad luck for them Oo; let them die, let them learn.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aeyris - Sanctuary
    Aeyris - Sanctuary Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Your cleric might have been more of an attack cleric. I've been in squads with several clerics who acted as the squad tank due to their build/gear and needed bramble.

    But yeah, bramble whoever asks for it, don't argue with them.
  • Kurushimii - Sanctuary
    Kurushimii - Sanctuary Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Major problem is some people just mistaken with bramble hood (which reduce damage taken) i got a cleric and caster asking me to bramble them while being sure my bramble will save their butt O.o . Unless the cleric decide to go fist the melee mobs i dont bramble them b:surrender
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »
    while being sure my bramble will save their butt

    If the clerics have sense and can survive on their own relatively, bramble can save them with that added bit of reflect damage helping to kill the mobs before the mob would wind up killing the cleric.

    If the cleric knows what they're doing, brambling them is never an issue and often helps them more than it hurts. It's just most clerics (and venos, apparently) don't seem to realize this and feel they should never bramble a caster or something... which can bite them in the butt later when a mob that's almost dead kills the person just before they had a chance to finish the mob.
  • Kurushimii - Sanctuary
    Kurushimii - Sanctuary Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    If the clerics have sense and can survive on their own relatively, bramble can save them with that added bit of reflect damage helping to kill the mobs before the mob would wind up killing the cleric.

    If the cleric knows what they're doing, brambling them is never an issue and often helps them more than it hurts. It's just most clerics (and venos, apparently) don't seem to realize this and feel they should never bramble a caster or something... which can bite them in the butt later when a mob that's almost dead kills the person just before they had a chance to finish the mob.

    i agree that but when i see Lv100+ cleric with AA ornement, 3k HP, like 2k phys def (buffed b:shutup) being 2 shot while BBing, i'm assuming less and less people actually knows what they are doing b:shocked . I have seen decent DD cleric but still dont bramble them b:surrender i'm maybe greedy with my bramble .
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Yeah... the lack of people with a clue on what they're doing is shockingly large nowadays... b:surrender

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna get on my cleric and hunt you down for bramble. b:laugh
  • Kurushimii - Sanctuary
    Kurushimii - Sanctuary Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    b:shockedb:cute i got demon one btw
  • BungaSakura - Raging Tide
    BungaSakura - Raging Tide Posts: 902 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    well, i barely ask bramble if there is veno in my squad. But in nirvana i always ask bramble cause in nirvana too much random agro. so bramble help alot. beside i always use plume shell, wop etc.
  • ScarletStorm - Harshlands
    ScarletStorm - Harshlands Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Kurushimii - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i agree that but when i see Lv100+ cleric with AA ornement, 3k HP, like 2k phys def (buffed b:shutup) being 2 shot while BBing, i'm assuming less and less people actually knows what they are doing b:shocked . I have seen decent DD cleric but still dont bramble them b:surrender i'm maybe greedy with my bramble .

    OUCH...I love bramble on my 100 cleric, but she has 9k pdef with just her cleric buffs, 13k with sage bell. I always ask for it too, if I have a veno in squad.
  • Kurushimii - Sanctuary
    Kurushimii - Sanctuary Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ScarletStorm - Harshlands wrote: »
    OUCH...I love bramble on my 100 cleric, but she has 9k pdef with just her cleric buffs, 13k with sage bell. I always ask for it too, if I have a veno in squad.

    b:surrender yes i told you there is some clueless cleric around . Yes with your p.def even without plume shell, i would be sure you could handle some hit . Like i said i'm greedy with bramble b:chuckle
  • ScarletStorm - Harshlands
    ScarletStorm - Harshlands Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    LOL yeah, there's clueless of pretty much every class, especially with all the Hyper lvling in Frostlands. Not saying I'm against it but I got a good laugh out of a 10X sin asking if someone could teach them how to pvp cause they'd never actually played the character outside Frost.

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