APS Barb?

DoggieDaddy - Sanctuary · June 2011

ok every1 i have started noticing alot of barbs restatting to aps fist/claws, i have a lvl 98 barb who i currently retired becuz i switch to a bm and sin to have aps but now my question is, is it worth it to restat my barb to become an fist/claw user or would it just be straight fail plz post comments before i make a decision

DoggieDaddy - Sanctuary · June 2011

also at what lvl can i switch my barb from sage to demon

LadySam - Heavens Tear · June 2011

sage - demon lvl 100
APS barb ? Barbs are for tanking , not for DDing b:bye
I think it`s useless . If you want aps char play with *** or BM.

TigerLily - Lost City · June 2011

You cant switch until level 100 and you need 3rd fairy. That means you need to complete the entire OHT quest chain and get access to Map 4 first.

Its not fail at all building your barb towards 5.0 in PvE. If you solo instances its actually better than a 5.0 BM since you always have hp/attack buff/poison fang/devour on bosses. You will be a very popular tank to, people luv a 5.0 barb in party 100+.

Its not the best build for PvP though, it actually sucks with 200 dex on barbs in pk lol.

Traz - Dreamweaver · June 2011

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Its not the best build for PvP though, it actually sucks with 200 dex on barbs in pk lol.

No it doesn't, but you do need the right refines and shards for it. I can still pull a cata even with 3 base vit. I'm more of an attack barb in TW though, but you tell me if a 400 str +10 r9 axe with 23% crit is scary or not.

TigerLily - Lost City · June 2011

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No it doesn't, but you do need the right refines and shards for it. I can still pull a cata even with 3 base vit. I'm more of an attack barb in TW though, but you tell me if a 400 str +10 r9 axe with 23% crit is scary or not.

Well if you have full R9+10 or equally nice gear those 100-120 extra stat points you put into dex doesn't matter much of course. You still hit like a truck and have loads of hp.

But for barbs with average gear and refines, i would not recommend 200+ dex in PvP.

Bunsai - Sanctuary · June 2011

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No it doesn't, but you do need the right refines and shards for it. I can still pull a cata even with 3 base vit. I'm more of an attack barb in TW though, but you tell me if a 400 str +10 r9 axe with 23% crit is scary or not.

The barb I know with 50% crit, +10 TT90 gold axes, 20k hp, and 350 str is more scary b:chuckle

Traz - Dreamweaver · June 2011

Bunsai - Sanctuary wrote: »

The barb I know with 50% crit, +10 TT90 gold axes, 20k hp, and 350 str is more scary b:chuckle

50% crit isn't base it's with beastial onslaught which doesn't count unless he actually gets to use it.

fuzzywuzz · June 2011

Fuzzy is going to move this one to the barb section, that seems more appropriate.

-moved-

As to OP's question...

Yes, there are plenty of barbs who are choosing to restat their builds and equip a set of claws. There are plenty of other barbs who, like the panda, choose to stay with a more traditional build. There are pro's and con's to both paths.

OP says that his barb is level 98, so the first obvious answer is "not yet". Wait at least one more level. Before 99 the only -int equipment a barb can wear (correct Fuzzy if wrong here) is the Lunar cape and TT90 gold wrists, along with the Deicide claws as a weapon. Pretty sure that isn't enough to even make 3.33 aps so there is simply no point. At 99 you can begin to gather up the other required gold armour and ornaments that will begin to make it worth while. Before being able to equip such armour any claw barb is doomed to failure.

Also, as a claw barb you are going to need to heavily refine the gear once you have it in your paws. The HP sacrifice from having to restat to dex is HUGE. You are going to loose at least a third or more of your total health. The only way to regain it is through high refinement. Fuzzy has seen first hand the result of not doing so and it is ugly. Barbs that sacrifice everything to get 4.0+ and have 10k hp can get eaten alive by the smallest mob.

HP isn't the only thing you will be loosing as a claw barb. Many of our skills are dependent upon having an axe equipped, not to even mention being able to transform into tiger. Many claw barbs Fuzzy sees tend to use the R8 weapon as their "backup" and Deicides as their "main". Suppose this is because the Lunar claws have the -int stat as well. That is all well and fine if you are willing to shard and refine 2 weapons instead of the single one required by a traditional axe barb. Some people don't mind spending the coin to refine 2 weapons, but Fuzzy is just saying, be aware that unless you do it to both, you will end up with at least one mediocre weapon and if thats the case, again, whats the point?

Anyway, the panda is rambling a bit here, but again, just to point out there are good and bad points for any barb considering the switch from a vit/str build to a dex build.

Best to consider all the factors involved. It isn't simply a case of "grab a few pieces of -int and become pro overnight." Far from it in this panda's opinion.

Traz - Dreamweaver · June 2011

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Fuzzy is going to move this one to the barb section, that seems more appropriate.

-moved-

As to OP's question...

Yes, there are plenty of barbs who are choosing to restat their builds and equip a set of claws. There are plenty of other barbs who, like the panda, choose to stay with a more traditional build. There are pro's and con's to both paths.

OP says that his barb is level 98, so the first obvious answer is "not yet". Wait at least one more level. Before 99 the only -int equipment a barb can wear (correct Fuzzy if wrong here) is the Lunar cape and TT90 gold wrists, along with the Deicide claws as a weapon. Pretty sure that isn't enough to even make 3.33 aps so there is simply no point. At 99 you can begin to gather up the other required gold armour and ornaments that will begin to make it worth while. Before being able to equip such armour any claw barb is doomed to failure.

Also, as a claw barb you are going to need to heavily refine the gear once you have it in your paws. The HP sacrifice from having to restat to dex is HUGE. You are going to loose at least a third or more of your total health. The only way to regain it is through high refinement. Fuzzy has seen first hand the result of not doing so and it is ugly. Barbs that sacrifice everything to get 4.0+ and have 10k hp can get eaten alive by the smallest mob.

HP isn't the only thing you will be loosing as a claw barb. Many of our skills are dependent upon having an axe equipped, not to even mention being able to transform into tiger. Many claw barbs Fuzzy sees tend to use the R8 weapon as their "backup" and Deicides as their "main". Suppose this is because the Lunar claws have the -int stat as well. That is all well and fine if you are willing to shard and refine 2 weapons instead of the single one required by a traditional axe barb. Some people don't mind spending the coin to refine 2 weapons, but Fuzzy is just saying, be aware that unless you do it to both, you will end up with at least one mediocre weapon and if thats the case, again, whats the point?

Anyway, the panda is rambling a bit here, but again, just to point out there are good and bad points for any barb considering the switch from a vit/str build to a dex build.

Best to consider all the factors involved. It isn't simply a case of "grab a few pieces of -int and become pro overnight." Far from it in this panda's opinion.

The point is to get in a position to be able to solo and rapidly acquire coins to get all those "weaknesses" worked out. This is inherently the biggest weakness of an axe build.

fuzzywuzz · June 2011

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The point is to get in a position to be able to solo and rapidly acquire coins to get all those "weaknesses" worked out. This is inherently the biggest weakness of an axe build.

It strikes Fuzzy as a bit of a catch 22.

You need to refine in able to solo, you need to solo in able to afford refines...... b:surrender

Traz - Dreamweaver · June 2011

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

It strikes Fuzzy as a bit of a catch 22.

You need to refine in able to solo, you need to solo in able to afford refines...... b:surrender

Not solo all the big stuff right away but even +5-6 refines with immacs can do more then you think b:laugh

Sadly even if you can't solo anything you will get squads faster being APS so you're still making up for those refines faster as a +3 2 flawless shard APS barb (don't get me wrong those make me cringe too). That's why I waited till I had about 20k standing to switch. Only dropped down to 19k standing switching to dex, and I'm still at 26k in tiger.

Personally there is a right way to go APS and a wrong way to go APS on a barb. I'd like to think I waited until I had all my gear good enough to do it, but I guess if you don't use the barb for anything other then PvE having good stuff for TW isn't weighing in the option to switch as much as it did for me.

mohatma1 · June 2011

At some point the -int bonuses are going to be nerfed for game balance (granted this could take a year or more), so unless you have lots of real money to spend on this game to keep restatting, I suggest playing another toon for awhile or just stick with an axe build. When the nerf comes they will try not to **** the classes that were meant to use high aps weapons, but I doubt they will worry about **** over fist barbs.

IBaMBii - Heavens Tear · June 2011

-referring to fuzzy-
honestly, i switched to claw at 4.0 instant and only had 10k hp standing. and i dont regret it, because i have the money to ALWAYS be charmed, i havent been uncharmed in months. so with a charm i there have 15k ish hp, cause of the tick and to tell you the truth, it make you learn to survive more.
you dont have the hp to back you up and you definitely dont have the defense to take hits, especially mdef. but, since im claw, i can survive more in pvp AND pve clawed then before when i had 20k hp pure axe.
just takes learning, what you can and cannot hold, invoke and bp and solid shield are your new best friends. lets 1v1 and see who survives longer.

Traz - Dreamweaver · June 2011

mohatma1 wrote: »

At some point the -int bonuses are going to be nerfed for game balance (granted this could take a year or more), so unless you have lots of real money to spend on this game to keep restatting, I suggest playing another toon for awhile or just stick with an axe build. When the nerf comes they will try not to **** the classes that were meant to use high aps weapons, but I doubt they will worry about **** over fist barbs.

I simply spend a few gold and put some points in str and bm still will use the claws. I don't lose anything from that, nor will most.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · June 2011

LadySam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sage - demon lvl 100
APS barb ? Barbs are for tanking , not for DDing b:bye
I think it`s useless . If you want aps char play with *** or BM.

Barbs are for tanking, hence why aps is useful. What is a non -int barb going to tank at level 90+? Delta and BH59 and below where DDs cant rip aggro in a heartbeat. Otherwise you end up just along for the ride to provide buffs and devour for a bm, or sin, or archer, or another barb, or everything else that rips aggro off you. Point is, if you want to be useful, go aps, but not until you have the refines and gear to back it up. I'm assuming feeling useless is why he stopped playing his barb in the first place.

Anyway, I wouldn't restat until you have 4.0 sparked and 12k hp otherwise you are back to being useless. If you are sage and interested in going demon (or visa versa) wait till you have finished chrono/culti to restat fist because it'll make life easier in Delta. You'll start tanking again but you'll be too squishy to want to tank. If you have bm gear from the same account this really helps because your refines are investments for two characters.

I built my vit barb dex heavy so hp loss for me was about 1k, but I think 1.5-2k is standard hp loss going vit build to aps. Restat vit to around 70 base, dex at 170 (200 with gear) and 300+ str and you'll be golden. For most people this is about 80-120 vit loss.

Despite the hp loss you'll probably find surviving easier. Especially if you have paint. Paint heals at 5.0 with a decently refined weapon give me as much heal as a full 15 second IH stack so 5.0 + paint is like having a second cleric there constantly spamming heals. Not to mention 2 sparks then sunder, 2 sparks then invoke, 2 sparks then sunder, 2 sparks then invoke... very easy to do because you will always have chi. And for me, since I transfered my BMs LA wrist and boots I took another slight hit to hp but have much sexier magic defense and dmg reduction. And the last thing that makes surviving easier... the cleric isn't healing everyone in the squad and stacking no one because you are actually tanking!!!

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · June 2011

Methinks fuzzy is confused.

First of all, you aren't losing one third of your hp. 150 vit at 17 hp per vit. So if your gears are bad you lose maybe a quarter of your hp, most likely 20%. And a barb with 10k hp and 4.0 aps isn't going to get "eaten alive by the smallest mob." I've got 11655 buffed with 5.0 aps. I can solo any TT up to and including 3-2. I can also solo nirvana. I can tank TT3-3 with a squad. I can tank full delta, full warsong, and trophy mode of FB79/89/99.

@ OP: DPS barb is a highly effective build that is more modern than a pure vit barb. A pure vit or even pure strength barb has little to no place in PvE anymore. If you want to farm, go dps.

RioNHale - Archosaur · June 2011

fist/claw build works for pvp the crit and accuracy boosts kick *** with axe too. my barb has over 7.2k accuracy with bloodbath 6.8k with m.def orns. ._.
And more of a contribution in pve instances endgame.

APS Barb?

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