Exploit vs. Glitch

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Comments

  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It didn't even work if you use the action traditionally associated with canceling a skill: pressing ESC. Instead you had to switch weapons.

    If it was a design flaw it would have effected all methods of canceling skills instead of just the obscure methods.

    Actually, the buff works without switching weapons. Perfect examples would be Demon Stunning Arrow / Sharptooth and also Sage black ice dragon strike, all giving crit bonus if you cancel it normally with ESC just before the casting.

    The reason people switch weapons is because it lets you keep attacking continously, whereas pressing escape twice by accident makes you lose your target, and discontinuing your attack.

    Overall, it's pretty trivial whether or not it was an exploit or a glitch. It was beneficial for BMs and in most situations necessary to use them to be able to compete with other end game classes in PvP. This was the nifty thing that allowed non rank 9 BMs compete with full Rank 9 opponents, because Rank 9 BMs get no interval...

    I'm all fine for glitches to be fixed under the circumstances that the fixes aren't actually breaks. For BMs, they already get no interval from R9, and the only class where their elemental buff costs 2 sparks. For BMs, this fix is actually a break.

    If they made DBB a no chi cost skill like condensed thorn and also make R9 BMs have interval on the pants and wrists it would be fair and the class itself wouldn't need to rely on CC on a 2 spark elemental buff...

    Edit: As this nerf originated from PW CN, they don't have the widespread rank 9 problem to worry about, so yeah... Sucks for PWI BMs.
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

    YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Cancel casting still took mp

    When sirens kiss cancels, it takes mp and my spark.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If they made DBB a no chi cost skill like condensed thorn and also make R9 BMs have interval on the pants and wrists it would be fair and the class itself wouldn't need to rely on CC on a 2 spark elemental buff...

    I pray that's the next step, doubtful but we can always hope.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Wanmei needs to balance the classes.

    Wanmei wouldn't know what balanced classes were if that concept slapped the living **** out of them.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Fenrina - Heavens Tear
    Fenrina - Heavens Tear Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If they made DBB a no chi cost skill like condensed thorn and also make R9 BMs have interval on the pants and wrists it would be fair and the class itself wouldn't need to rely on CC on a 2 spark elemental buff...

    That might be wishful thinking. I really don't see that happening unless they split the skill in two. Though, that could be interesting.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Fist Mastery and a higher strength average.

    I was just reading through and i noticed this, i dunno how i missed it. Fist Mastery doesn't add elemental damage, it's physical damage. Expel and we're doomed.
  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    I was just reading through and i noticed this, i dunno how i missed it. Fist Mastery doesn't add elemental damage, it's physical damage. Expel and we're doomed.

    Doomed? Unless they waste apoth or some extra genie vit they cant fight anything right now. Just beat the **** out of them to regain chi and continue.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Doomed? Unless they waste apoth or some extra genie vit they cant fight anything right now. Just beat the **** out of them to regain chi and continue.

    Uh.. because the moment your stun wears off they're just gonna stand there and take it right?
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Doomed? Unless they waste apoth or some extra genie vit they cant fight anything right now. Just beat the **** out of them to regain chi and continue.

    most likely they'll expel to delay for cd (maybe on sleep/stun/freeze), before we did damage while they were expelled, now all we can do is gain chi, that's great. They'll come out of expel with their skill back out of cd
  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Uh.. because the moment your stun wears off they're just gonna stand there and take it right?

    Because you dont have Genie Stun to keep them there until you can nail them with a different stun / immobilise right? If not that, cloud eruption is a great tool on a high regen genie. Can get a spark every 30-40 seconds if you build your genie around it specifically, although dedication to CE would be as negative as it is positive. (Plenty of chi but not much power for other skills).

    Youl work around it. Go play and find out how instead of crying its gone.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Because you dont have Genie Stun to keep them there until you can nail them with a different stun / immobilise right? If not that, cloud eruption is a great tool on a high regen genie. Can get a spark every 30-40 seconds if you build your genie around it specifically, although dedication to CE would be as negative as it is positive. (Plenty of chi but not much power for other skills).

    Youl work around it. Go play and find out how instead of crying its gone.

    You do realize that if they time Domain 4 seconds through RotP they'll have 4 seconds of stun immunity right? Two seconds of full immunity and then the 2 seconds of stun immunity after the damage resist part of the skill. Or they can Fortify and have the same effect, just without the Damage resist (again with the right timing). If they Expel during the last few seconds of Roar then they either: have Expel outlast your Occult OR if the BM decides to wait so Expel's duration goes down a bit they can pop an anti stun/damage reduction apo letting them tank the rest of your stunlock until a hole comes up and they can get away, all the while charging their genie for a Fortify/Stunbreak/Expel to be used later.

    What idiot wastes their genie energy on Cloud Eruption in 1v1? That takes away any other defensive skill you could use aside from low energy ones such as TE. Either use CE and be unable to OI or use a defensive skill, or use something else and be unable to CE for chi if you need it. CE... just is not good for a BM's PvP genie.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What idiot wastes their genie energy on Cloud Eruption in 1v1?

    nu but srsly i think this gd idea so wen u do dbb u can have extra 1.3 spark back.
  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You do realize that if they time Domain 4 seconds through RotP they'll have 4 seconds of stun immunity right? Two seconds of full immunity and then the 2 seconds of stun immunity after the damage resist part of the skill. Or they can Fortify and have the same effect, just without the Damage resist (again with the right timing). If they Expel during the last few seconds of Roar then they either: have Expel outlast your Occult OR if the BM decides to wait so Expel's duration goes down a bit they can pop an anti stun/damage reduction apo letting them tank the rest of your stunlock until a hole comes up and they can get away, all the while charging their genie for a Fortify/Stunbreak/Expel to be used later.

    What idiot wastes their genie energy on Cloud Eruption in 1v1? That takes away any other defensive skill you could use aside from low energy ones such as TE. Either use CE and be unable to OI or use a defensive skill, or use something else and be unable to CE for chi if you need it. CE... just is not good for a BM's PvP genie.

    If they domain with such excellent timing, I think they deserve to win the fight.

    You might lose sometimes now. Deal with it.

    ~Oh, and for CE, that was simply a suggestion. wether it suits your "I dont haz enough stunz lets uze genie" playstyle or not, it is one method of countering your loss in chi.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    If they domain with such excellent timing, I think they deserve to win the fight.

    You might lose sometimes now. Deal with it.

    I could cancel cast and double cancel cast.. I deserved to win every fight I've ever been in using that logic. I can stun lock someone on my BM skills alone for over 20 seconds, I deserver to win every fight I do that in. Awesome logic, you can time one thing well so the fight should go to you. Thanks, I'll let everyone know that since I can stun lock I deserve to win and they should bow down to my total awesomeness at timing a skill or two.
  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I could cancel cast and double cancel cast.. I deserved to win every fight I've ever been in using that logic. I can stun lock someone on my BM skills alone for over 20 seconds, I deserver to win every fight I do that in. Awesome logic, you can time one thing well so the fight should go to you. Thanks, I'll let everyone know that since I can stun lock I deserve to win and they should bow down to my total awesomeness at timing a skill or two.

    You could glitch to a timer. Congratulations.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    You could glitch to a timer. Congratulations.

    You can talk about a subject you have little knowledge of. Congratulations.
  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You can talk about a subject you have little knowledge of. Congratulations.

    I have plenty of knowledge of it. You got a buff that should have cost 2 sparks for free.

    Its a glitch and its abusing a glitch. Whether the cost you are supposed to pay is fair is a different matter. But what you just got was a bugfix. Not a BM killing nerf.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    I have plenty of knowledge of it. You got a buff that should have cost 2 sparks for free.

    Its a glitch and its abusing a glitch. Whether the cost you are supposed to pay is fair is a different matter. But what you just got was a bugfix. Not a BM killing nerf.

    It's not really a different matter, they should've changed the skill then fixed it so we didn't need to suffer, or at least change it really soon.

    "bug fix" and bm killing nerf aren't mutually exclusive.
  • Deadlife - Lost City
    Deadlife - Lost City Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    explain to be how it wasn't part of the design, they made it that way and kept it like that for over 3 years.


    from things Ive read people are saying this wasnt a widely used or known thing across the servers, it was only used by elite people who "know" how to play their class, by elite I gather in the good ole boy network of people who share exploits.

    Im sure its been that way for 3 years cause up until recently its probably been a best kept secret amongst the cool people

    I saw some video a few months ago, it was the teleport stun without using a spark exploit(b:shutup yea i said it) which was probably some person who ragequit and busted you all out.

    regardless, there is no need to complain, cause the servers blown up with full rank 9 players and if you arent equally geared, no exploit that saves you some sparks is gonna save you.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Deadlife - Lost City wrote: »
    from things Ive read people are saying this wasnt a widely used or known thing across the servers, it was only used by elite people who "know" how to play their class, by elite I gather in the good ole boy network of people who share exploits.

    Im sure its been that way for 3 years cause up until recently its probably been a best kept secret amongst the cool people

    Nope, it's been widely known for that long. Anybody can do it but the better bms would implement it in pking, get some good combos out of it, and if you got the timing wrong by a little you'd waste 2 sparks or waste time. It wasn't just used by elite players, but they pulled it off the best.
    Deadlife - Lost City wrote: »
    regardless, there is no need to complain, cause the servers blown up with full rank 9 players and if you arent equally geared, no exploit that saves you some sparks is gonna save you.

    Well, there is need to complain, just because you can get "equally geared" our DD is so low it's no match for R9+10
  • Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands
    Yuji_Sakai - Harshlands Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

    Stormrage Eagleon costs 2 sparks as well. Do you want to trade DBB for that?

    But if we gave them Stormrage Eagleon, how would we reproduce? b:shocked

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=4845322#post4845322
  • Deadlife - Lost City
    Deadlife - Lost City Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    Nope, it's been widely known for that long. Anybody can do it but the better bms would implement it in pking, get some good combos out of it, and if you got the timing wrong by a little you'd waste 2 sparks or waste time. It wasn't just used by elite players, but they pulled it off the best.


    But doesnt this comment in itself stink of imbalance? I mean using a glitch better than someone else doesnt constitute fair gameplay in my opinion, I assume things like pc hardware, and internet connection affect this type of gameplay. Im sure with my **** pc, with **** vid card, and mediocre connection I wouldnt be able to pull off this type of manuever.(and please, PLEASE someone say get a better pc)

    Or what about the guy who does not know about it, but is semi-equally geared/level, and is losing fights continuously due to the other player using an exploit? I understand some seekers used this exploit, but check the seeker forum there are many, many threads about how to beat this character and that character in this scenario, or that scenario because lets face it, seekers just arent a 1v1 type class, but in every thread, not one post talks about "hey, have you tried to cancel cast voidstep?"

    why do you think that is? now I havent checked the BM forums, as I dont have a bm, but Im wondering if its the same in that particular area.

    It just doesnt make sense to me how any logical person, like that sin in the other thread(with the poll) is super serious with the comment "hey! im so seriously upset that i cant get a massive crit % increase without losing my 2 sparks! this is just so unfair!!!" I mean seriously?

    I guess im just trying to understand something I will never understand. I mean its like pointing a gun at someone starting to pull the trigger but then stops, and suddenly it goes off, kills the other person, and then that person saying "why am I going to jail, i stopped pulling the trigger"

    i just dont get it, i really dont
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Deadlife - Lost City wrote: »
    But doesnt this comment in itself stink of imbalance? I mean using a glitch better than someone else doesnt constitute fair gameplay in my opinion, I assume things like pc hardware, and internet connection affect this type of gameplay. Im sure with my **** pc, with **** vid card, and mediocre connection I wouldnt be able to pull off this type of manuever.(and please, PLEASE someone say get a better pc)

    Or what about the guy who does not know about it, but is semi-equally geared/level, and is losing fights continuously due to the other player using an exploit? I understand some seekers used this exploit, but check the seeker forum there are many, many threads about how to beat this character and that character in this scenario, or that scenario because lets face it, seekers just arent a 1v1 type class, but in every thread, not one post talks about "hey, have you tried to cancel cast voidstep?"

    why do you think that is? now I havent checked the BM forums, as I dont have a bm, but Im wondering if its the same in that particular area.

    It just doesnt make sense to me how any logical person, like that sin in the other thread(with the poll) is super serious with the comment "hey! im so seriously upset that i cant get a massive crit % increase without losing my 2 sparks! this is just so unfair!!!" I mean seriously?

    I guess im just trying to understand something I will never understand. I mean its like pointing a gun at someone starting to pull the trigger but then stops, and suddenly it goes off, kills the other person, and then that person saying "why am I going to jail, i stopped pulling the trigger"

    i just dont get it, i really dont

    It's not imbalanced if every bm (in this case) has the ability to do it, the fact that you're calling it a glitch would make it seem unfair but it's more of an exploit. Pc speed/connection would affect the gameplay for everything, not just this, it would affect your timing for most other things so this won't be the first thing to be left up to the connection.

    There are a lot of different combos people don't know about but they'll soon find out, if you're fighting another bm it's really not difficult to find out they're getting the fire buff and not finishing the animation, if you were fighting a bm who used it it's extremely apparent.

    There aren't posts in the bm forums saying, well if you can't beat them try using cc dbb.

    Sins cc was way more overpowered then the bms so in that case of course i can agree with you in saying it's a stupid sin complaining especially if they actually said "it's unfair" because sins are stil as op as they'll ever be. Bm's on the other hand are not.

    The metaphor with the gun thing just doesn't make any sense.
  • Deadlife - Lost City
    Deadlife - Lost City Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    The metaphor with the gun thing just doesn't make any sense.

    No I suppose not, however it seemed like it did when I wrote it, but either way....life goes on, whats next?
  • TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide
    TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide Posts: 1,946 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Ugh guys,really now...why all the arguing? PWI's just far too broken and most fixes they'll make are going to end up breaking something else.Yes normally it would be okay to fix this but at the same time do some re-balancing like "okay guys,we fixed the CC glitch,but now the bms are pretty nerfed,mby we should so smth about all those useless skills they have".

    Also,If this was their way of nerfing sins then it's a very stupid one as they could've done it in so many more ways than this.This is yet another thing that they did w/o proper testing & considering what to do so that they can fix this but don't break anything else.

    You know,just like aps was 1st implemented or packs or rank.Nerfing aps or removing packs or rank sale completely now would only cause more trouble just like this CC glitch fix did.


    In short : Keep asking PWE to play their own damn game start testing something before you jump to implement it.If something needs fixing,consider what the good & bad can the fix do and think about what you should so that you can perform your fix while not breaking anything else,otherwise you might be better off leaving it alone.

    And who knows ! Maybe,one day...far,far into the future they'll actually do that xD.
    It's all about LoL,yo.
  • alejofear
    alejofear Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I play since 2 years and as bm I had to go through several changes in the game from the onset of sins and change the formation of axes to fist and after that the reputation, the only thing that is weakening ah made ​​more my species, but despite this we survived the changes but now we remove the glich, I feel that it was almost our last weapon to try to match power with the other species really makes me unjust and definitely left us bm as the weaker race around the game that sadness, I am now considering leaving the game because I feel that my species is completely useless against great power and have given other

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