Exploit vs. Glitch
Comments
-
I think Pytharia is confused.
CCing was exploiting a design flaw in the game. Originally, the developers should have made switching weapons during a skill cancel the buff the skill cast on the player or the buff shouldn't have taken effect until after the skill went off. However, they probably did not expect players to switch weapons during skills to gain their buff without the CHI cost. And, following this logic, they did not build in a catch to prevent CCing because they never thought it possible. Now that players are using it and the developers are finally paying attention, they have corrected the design flaw.A sword can cut a man in twain, but words can shake a fortress to the ground.0 -
PhantomThief - Archosaur wrote: »I think Pytharia is confused.
CCing was exploiting a design flaw in the game. Originally, the developers should have made switching weapons during a skill cancel the buff the skill cast on the player or the buff shouldn't have taken effect until after the skill went off. However, they probably did not expect players to switch weapons during skills to gain their buff without the CHI cost. And, following this logic, they did not build in a catch to prevent CCing because they never thought it possible. Now that players are using it and the developers are finally paying attention, they have corrected the design flaw.
I'm not confused, i know it was exploiting a design flaw. You're repeating everything i wrote. I stated that the devs did not expect us to exploit cc, i said they didn't "build in a catch" you're simply backing me up in saying they were most likely aware of what they were doing but didn't expect us to exploit it.
this makes me laugh
why not correct the bigger problems
and not to be rude but is 89 sin your highest character? Your first post seemed like you agreed that it wasn't a glitch, but a design flaw, which i agree with. But it's hard to have input to this when you're not aware of how big of a change it actually was.
that's my pointPhantomThief - Archosaur wrote: »I have no experience as a BM, but if they absolutely need to CC to beat R8, Nirvana, and TT90, then the developers need to re-balance the class.
But i'm not gonna go ahead and say bm's need cc to beat tt90/nirvana because that's not true, but it did cause a huge unbalance against people with decent to good gear who knows what they're doing.0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »I'm not confused, i know it was exploiting a design flaw. You're repeating everything i wrote. I stated that the devs did not expect us to exploit cc, i said they didn't "build in a catch" you're simply backing me up in saying they were most likely aware of what they were doing but didn't expect us to exploit it.
this makes me laugh
why not correct the bigger problems
and not to be rude but is 89 sin your highest character? Your first post seemed like you agreed that it wasn't a glitch, but a design flaw, which i agree with. But it's hard to have input to this when you're not aware of how big of a change it actually was
No. I am saying they were not aware of the flaw. I am saying they were not aware of it. Assassins have made the flaw painfully obvious, in my opinion.
Any fix is a step in the right direction, no matter how much it pisses people off. It at least shows the players that the developers are still working on fixing the flaws in the game.
This is my highest character. However, I know a lot about programming and game design.
In my book, TT99/Nirvana is good gear. It was the endgame gear for a long time. R8 is very comparable to the two, in my opinion. However, R9 is broken and I know its going to suck to fight all the new R9s with BMs who can't CC. But, that's how it goes.A sword can cut a man in twain, but words can shake a fortress to the ground.0 -
I think it's funny how everyone is getting pissed because they fixed an exploit. They didn't nerf BM's at all, they just made it so that it worked the way it was supposed to originally.
We always sit and complain that they never fix any bugs. Guess what? They fixed one. Now you just need to learn how to play without cheating. b:chuckleTake the time to look for your answer before you post like an idiot.
There are two kinds of people in this world...
There are those who panic,
And then there is us.
~ Sarah Jane Smith0 -
PhantomThief - Archosaur wrote: »No. I am saying they were not aware of the flaw. I am saying they were not aware of it. Assassins have made the flaw painfully obvious, in my opinion.
Any fix is a step in the right direction, no matter how much it pisses people off. It at least shows the players that the developers are still working on fixing the flaws in the game.
This is my highest character. However, I know a lot about programming and game design.
That isn't true. I'm 100% sure GM's new about this even before TB.
That's annoying but kinda true, you just can't blame bm's for being angry that it effect them in such a huge way.0 -
Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »I think it's funny how everyone is getting pissed because they fixed an exploit. They didn't nerf BM's at all, they just made it so that it worked the way it was supposed to originally.
We always sit and complain that they never fix any bugs. Guess what? They fixed one. Now you just need to learn how to play without cheating. b:chuckle
I totally agree!
I think people's main complaint is that they can't beat others as easily as they used to, or they can't beat R9s.
R9 is unbalanced as compared to Nirvana/TT99/R8.A sword can cut a man in twain, but words can shake a fortress to the ground.0 -
Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »I think it's funny how everyone is getting pissed because they fixed an exploit. They didn't nerf BM's at all, they just made it so that it worked the way it was supposed to originally.
We always sit and complain that they never fix any bugs. Guess what? They fixed one. Now you just need to learn how to play without cheating. b:chuckle
That's definitely not true
that's a fair point0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »That isn't true. I'm 100% sure GM's new about this even before TB.
That's annoying but kinda true, you just can't blame bm's for being angry that it effect them in such a huge way.
I'm not blaming them at all, but they should at least look at it from a developer point of view.
Also, they may have known about it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they approved of it. It could be they were figuring out the best way to fix it or, more likely, they didn't feel it was a big problem until now. Its honestly hard to tell what they were thinking because we don't know the inner workings of PW development team in China.A sword can cut a man in twain, but words can shake a fortress to the ground.0 -
PhantomThief - Archosaur wrote: »I'm not blaming them at all, but they should at least look at it from a developer point of view.
Also, they may have known about it, but that doesn't necessarily mean they approved of it. It could be they were figuring out the best way to fix it or, more likely, they didn't feel it was a big problem until now. Its honestly hard to tell what they were thinking because we don't know the inner workings of PW development team in China.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with pwi tbh, still funny though
maybe with sins but cut bm's some slack
0 -
Wow, whining about fixing something that was blatantly an exploit and necessary for their developers to fix. Thus once again, proving to be one of the most logically deprived player bases I think I've ever seen.0
-
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wow, whining about fixing something that was blatantly an exploit and necessary for their developers to fix. Thus once again, proving to be one of the most logically deprived player bases I think I've ever seen.
Meh, Imo in this case the logic transcends the labels.
these glitches/exploits whatever you call them where balancers in a game that was unbalanced to begin with.0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wow, whining about fixing something that was blatantly an exploit and necessary for their developers to fix. Thus once again, proving to be one of the most logically deprived player bases I think I've ever seen.
Thanks for your input JanusZeal for Heavens Tear. Tell me how you'd feel if you had a 135% ele bonus on you that got taken away whilst barbs/archers still have theirs which never cost any sparks to use, the fairness is fair.0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »Thanks for your input JanusZeal for Heavens Tear. Tell me how you'd feel if you had a 135% ele bonus on you that got taken away whilst barbs/archers still have theirs which never cost any sparks to use, the fairness is fair.
I played another mmo as a caster class that specialized in aoes, they had tons of them all with various effects, including duel element spells. The devs decided to change the spells so much that there was only 1, just ONE spell left that was good for pvp. From then on all we could do was spam 1 skill over and over and over. Did that stop me from running into the arena and cleaning it out with me being the only survivor? Not a chance.b:victory
The point is, its still possible to play well you just need to learn a different way to do it.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Yeah yeah, I've already read this in every page on this topic from you, and read from others another rationale of how it takes MP anyways therefore it's unfair -- I don't care. It's an exploit. Read PD description. Everyone already knew that. A game is constantly tweaked to reflect such exploits and fix them. This fix is one of a very very few things that has happened to PWI that they've done right. Unsurprisingly, there's complaints anyways.Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »Thanks for your input JanusZeal for Heavens Tear. Tell me how you'd feel if you had a 135% ele bonus on you that got taken away whilst barbs/archers still have theirs which never cost any sparks to use, the fairness is fair.
Edit: As I can see from another topic on this issue that's at the top of this subforum, most people are happy for this change, even those who are sins/BM's (I have both).0 -
_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »these glitches/exploits whatever you call them where balancers in a game that was unbalanced to begin with.
if you need to exploit bugs in the game in order to "balance" it for you, then your problem is deeper than the bugs you're exploiting. you should be complaining, you have a valid issue to complain about --- but it's the imbalance, not the fact that one bug finally got fixed after years of waiting.
and honestly, if you need to cheat by exploiting bugs in order to "compete" with other players, then both you and the very "competition" itself fails so badly there aren't even any words for it. just give up and grow out of such childish e-peen "competitions", that's the only way to win them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »Thanks for your input JanusZeal for Heavens Tear. Tell me how you'd feel if you had a 135% ele bonus on you that got taken away whilst barbs/archers still have theirs which never cost any sparks to use, the fairness is fair.
Fist Mastery and a higher strength average.
And archers / barbs only get their buffs because they use innapropriate weapons. I wouldnt complain if a barbs Wood Damage was attached to Tiger form like ShapeShifting Intensity, nor if Archers lost Blazing Arrow the moment they unequipped a bow.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »I played another mmo as a caster class that specialized in aoes, they had tons of them all with various effects, including duel element spells. The devs decided to change the spells so much that there was only 1, just ONE spell left that was good for pvp. From then on all we could do was spam 1 skill over and over and over. Did that stop me from running into the arena and cleaning it out with me being the only survivor? Not a chance.b:victory
The point is, its still possible to play well you just need to learn a different way to do it.
I'm not giving up on pm either, but the fact that you can still "clean out the arena" shows that you have some skill with that character, it's not the same case with bm unfortunately, but hey, we can always restat back to axe and try to stun/crit our way to success, fun.Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »Fist Mastery and a higher strength average.
And archers / barbs only get their buffs because they use innapropriate weapons. I wouldnt complain if a barbs Wood Damage was attached to Tiger form like ShapeShifting Intensity, nor if Archers lost Blazing Arrow the moment they unequipped a bow.
You wouldn't complain but trust me, barbs and archers would.
higher strength is an invalid argument because you can have whatever stats you want.0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »I'm not giving up on pm either, but the fact that you can still "clean out the arena" shows that you have some skill with that character, it's not the same case with bm unfortunately, but hey, we can always restat back to axe and try to stun/crit our way to success, fun.
You wouldn't complain but trust me, barbs and archers would.
higher strength is an invalid argument because you can have whatever stats you want.
I said "average". Barbs are liable to have more Vit, Archers are more likely to have their Dex. On average BMs will have more Str.
And if they complained, who would care? Perhaps they should just turn around and sell us unbinding charms for one week, and flat out lock the classes to appropriate weaponry. Then we will see who can play. (BMs would NOT be able to complain then, no archer / Barbs / Sins with fists? Who needs extra damage when I haz 5 apszz).0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
higher strength is an invalid argument because you can have whatever stats you want.
Not quite. It is a known fact that different classes get different attack power based on their str stat. 100 str on an archer does not give the same attack as 100 str on a bm or barb.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
I have the answer to this thread:
**
ex●ploit
[ik-sploit]
-verb (used with object)
1. to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.
2. to use selfishly for one's own ends: employers who exploit their workers.
3. to advance or further through exploitation; promote: He exploited his new movie through a series of guest appearances.
Origin:
1375-1425; < French exploiter, derivative of exploit (noun); replacing late Middle English expleiten to achieve < Anglo-French espleiter, derivative of espleit (noun). See exploit 1
-Related forms
ex●ploit●a●ble, adjective
ex●ploit●a●bil●i●ty, noun
ex●ploit●a●tive, ex●ploit●a●to●ry /ɪkˈsplɔɪtəˌtɔri, -ˌtoʊri/ Show Spelled
[ik-sploi-tuh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Show IPA
, ex●ploit●ive, adjective
ex●ploit●er, noun
half-ex●ploit●ed, adjective
**
glitch
[glich]
Slang .
-noun
1. a defect or malfunction in a machine or plan.
2. Computers . any error, malfunction, or problem. Compare bug1 ( def. 5 ) .
3. a brief or sudden interruption or surge in voltage in an electric circuit.
**
To compare these two, is as pointless as comparing apples to ornages. What SHOULD be compared is Glitch VS Flaw... Either of which are EXPLOITABLE !!!
---END OF LINE---0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Not quite. It is a known fact that different classes get different attack power based on their str stat. 100 str on an archer does not give the same attack as 100 str on a bm or barb.
Not true.
The damage formulas are different for different weapons. The formulas are not class-dependant.
Though yes, having a mastery that boosts damage will obviously give BMs an effectively higher increase per point of str than barbs or archer. Then again, barbs have their buff and Poison Fang, Archers have Blazing Arrow.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
This thread will never come to an agreement....never. Why am i posting here? Becasue im at work and have nothing better to do as it's slow. Lets face it, glitch, exploit, doohicky, thingymabobber...doesnt matter what you call it. If you think the skills were intentially designed for CCing to work...you're a moron. If the skils were ment to work that way they might as well have a skill description "This skill costs 2 sparks unless you decide to switch weapons in the middle of channeling which is highly reccomended because who would use 2 sparks when they didn't have to?" I DO however think that this farther unbalances the game in the case of the BM's. It wasn't really a problem and should not have been removed considering the game has changed a lot over the years and some classes that were once well balanced now need an extra edge to keep up with the new classes. This should be fixed by developers pulling thier heads out of thier asses and changeing old skills and adding new ones. But let's face it, that's not going to happen. For real, find a new game. Not one with the same devs obviously...and when you do let me know about it so i can join you. This game is like a drug addict, they will stop at nothing to get thier fix and as much of it as they can. But this game has no intention of going to theropy and with out a doubt will end up dead.0
-
If they didn't want pking in SC why not make SC a safe area? That seems like an easy fix right? why don't they fix that instead of simply making it ban-able. It sounds like a simple enough problem to fix.0
-
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »If they didn't want pking in SC why not make SC a safe area? That seems like an easy fix right? why don't they fix that instead of simply making it ban-able. It sounds like a simple enough problem to fix.
I'd have it going just as it is now. Instead of preventing players from doing what you don't want them to do, make it still be possible and ban them all for doing it. This way you get rid of anyone who would break the rules.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »explain to be how it wasn't part of the design, they made it that way and kept it like that for over 3 years. In some sense i wouldn't been a little happier if they acknowledged this back when it was found and used as appose to changing it now.
The very real explanation as to why it hasn't been fixed until now is that there due to Bug Triage. In other words, the bug was not a high or critical priority nor did it block an expansion. (We know it's not a critical priority bug because pwe closes the servers when those appear on live servers.) This would be a normal priority bug, and it's somewhat common for bugs at that priority to take weeks, months or years to fix as the dev team only has so much time. Also, High and Critical bugs as well as bugs that would block an expansion take priority over normal bugs.
As for why now, the answer is in the the china patch notes. The devs appear to be looking at balance. CC affected balance and the devs considered it a bug so they fixed it. The devs could easily be sympathetic to the bms, but fixing the bug could have been an all or nothing choice.
Finally, bms do not need CC. They might need some updates or improvements, but that doesn't mean CC specifically is what they need. CC could easily have been preventing bms from getting the real improvements to the class.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'd have it going just as it is now. Instead of preventing players from doing what you don't want them to do, make it still be possible and ban them all for doing it. This way you get rid of anyone who would break the rules.
That's unfair, and kinda stupid, lets just set up more of these traps, I'm not 100% sure but I've heard some previous posts stating that cc was banable, why didn't they keep that as it is and just ban those who did it, even though I've never heard of anybody being banned for it.Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »As for why now, the answer is in the the china patch notes. The devs appear to be looking at balance. CC affected balance and the devs considered it a bug so they fixed it. The devs could easily be sympathetic to the bms, but fixing the bug could have been an all or nothing choice.
Finally, bms do not need CC. They might need some updates or improvements, but that doesn't mean CC specifically is what they need. CC could easily have been preventing bms from getting the real improvements to the class.
the only way it might have affected the balance for bm's would be actually giving them a chance
They kinda do in situations where people have op gear
Yes, BMs need to get rid of useless skills and bring in some that might actually be of any help at all.0 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »That's unfair, and kinda stupid, lets just set up more of these traps, I'm not 100% sure but I've heard some previous posts stating that cc was banable, why didn't they keep that as it is and just ban those who did it, even though I've never heard of anybody being banned for it.
If I ran an mmo it would be full of such traps.b:chuckle
If you are a person that is willing to abuse anything, I do not want you in my game.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »the only way it might have affected the balance for bm's would be actually giving them a chance
They kinda do in situations where people have op gear
Yes, BMs need to get rid of useless skills and bring in some that might actually be of any help at all.
I think you missed the point. That "get rid of useless skills and bring in some that might actually be of any help at all?" CC could have been preventing that from happening.
We don't know why CC was removed, but it's clear the devs are adjusting skills from the china patch notes. Bms may simply have to wait for their turn.0 -
Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think you missed the point. That "get rid of useless skills and bring in some that might actually be of any help at all?" CC could have been preventing that from happening.
We don't know why CC was removed, but it's clear the devs are adjusting skills from the china patch notes. Bms may simply have to wait for their turn.
If CC prevented that from happening it's gone now, so yeah i'm hoping for new skills, they could've brought in the new skills with fixing cc.0 -
Yeah, development is a painfully slow process at times.... this is probably one of those times.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 699 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61.1K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk