Barbarian ( barb ) v Seeker tank ? Advice please

MageMERC - Harshlands
MageMERC - Harshlands Posts: 1,600 Arc User
edited May 2011 in General Discussion
I did bh69 yesterday healing a 86 seeker tank. He did it easy and I think healing him was easier than a comparable level barb.

Do seekers regularly tank the higher bh's, fcc, nirvana, warsong etc? Are barbs absolutely required or the best option for anything including TW?

Is the ongoing cost of playing either one a bigger or lesser issue - pots etc.

Thanks in advance for any advice. My barb is 60 and seeker 49 so im trying to decide which one to keep levelling.
Post edited by MageMERC - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Seekers are puller, not tankers. They may be able to tank low level bh's but as the levels get higher their tanking skills drop fast. Barb / Sins / Bm's will take agro off them way too easy.
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    Seekers are puller, not tankers. They may be able to tank low level bh's but as the levels get higher their tanking skills drop fast. Barb / Sins / Bm's will take agro off them way too easy.

    I dont think his question was in line with skills at keeping agro, but in healing efficiency.


    To answere your question, They are easier to heal in some cases. It changes a bit when you are healing a barb with ZOMGawds gears..... But not many seekers have reached that level of gear to compare.

    The feel of effciency comes into play because seekers are normally only half the HP of a typical barb you are usually healing. So you re actually getting more bang for you buck. And they take on lesser damage then a BM because of the defense levels they get early on.
    re
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »
    Do seekers regularly tank the higher bh's, fcc, nirvana, warsong etc? Are barbs absolutely required or the best option for anything including TW?

    He stated he thought that he was healing the seeker easier then he asked that ^

    I was just answering his question but i don't see how healing a "tanking seeker" would matter if he's unable to hold agro. It doesn't make sense.
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited May 2011
    Also, their AoE skills work with Bloodpaint, which allows them to heal themselves for a significant amount, whereas Barbs usually can't attack more than one mob at a time.
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  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Barbs at those points of interest are not even able to hold agro....with agro SKILLS..

    I was going by his experience in a BH.
    I think healing him was easier than a comparable level barb.


    But I supose he can qlarify
    KrittyCat wrote: »
    Also, their AoE skills work with Bloodpaint, which allows them to heal themselves for a significant amount, whereas Barbs usually can't attack more than one mob at a time.

    In most instances, with BP a seeker won't even need a cleric. Unless to purify because the seeker is stationary.
    re
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    Barbs at those points of interest are not even able to hold agro....with agro SKILLS..

    I was going by his experience in a BH.




    But I supose he can qlarify

    Yes, he stated that he thought the seeker was easier to heal but nowhere in his question did he ask if they were easier to heal.

    Imo vit seekers are preferred in 90+ because at that stage a sin or bm can easily tank the bosses whilst the seekers can pull and has a great aoe.
    As for 100+ bh seekers are definitly out of the question since a 2+ aps sin or bm can steal a bosses agro for them but barbs are still widely used as tanks. Warsong is a bh so it's pretty much the same thing.
    Nirvana sometime uses a barb but it's definitely not needed, i haven't seen a nirvana squad asking for a seeker.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Even tho Barbs can't hold aggro from high APS BM or Sin, Seeker is ever worse. In BH 51, I attacked the boss at 50% on my Archer and still pulled aggro.
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I never argued that seekers could hold agro. Just that they are indeed easy to heal =)



    Also from a retired cleric's perspective.


    I forgot to add in my prior post...

    inb4theallaboutapsandaggoandeverythingisnirvanacrowedcomesin
    re
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    They are gonna revamp AGGRO SKILLS for barb and also for seeker, in the near future.

    JUst pick the class you like most and enjoy it...


    Barb and seek are kinda same build wise...just pick the one you like most...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • S_Swipe - Sanctuary
    S_Swipe - Sanctuary Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Barb build vs seeker build is not the same or even close o.o (at least my build) No vit 163 dex everything else is STR. I can pull easy with no prob when needed in FCC havent tried Pulling in delta yet. I can not tank for anything cause i cant keep aggro from APS but i can easily one on one tank something with a cleric and still take it down in a decent time.
  • TekkOneStylz - Harshlands
    TekkOneStylz - Harshlands Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Even tho Barbs can't hold aggro from high APS BM or Sin, Seeker is ever worse. In BH 51, I attacked the boss at 50% on my Archer and still pulled aggro.

    is ur archer's name Okeanna by any chance? XD cause i seen at bh platform yesterday with that name spamming for a bh squad and didnt know if it was u or maybe a ''fan of urs'' ill say lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Motorcycle.... U MAD?
  • TekkOneStylz - Harshlands
    TekkOneStylz - Harshlands Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »
    They are gonna revamp AGGRO SKILLS for barb and also for seeker, in the near future.

    JUst pick the class you like most and enjoy it...


    Barb and seek are kinda same build wise...just pick the one you like most...

    Where did u hear this?


    And also from wut i have seen in around the 60s-70s and possibly the same for the 80s is that seeker seems to only be able to hold aggro i they can keep their vortex up because that seems to do alot of dmg with a pretty short interval between the next hit even. But there is ocourse no way that vortex will compare to the 5aps chars later on 90+
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Motorcycle.... U MAD?
  • Flixix - Dreamweaver
    Flixix - Dreamweaver Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I have been doing FCs with a cleric, mystic, seeker and myself (sin). I find this team is brilliant because I can choose not to get aggro, the seeker has some insane aoe's and can take hits.

    With a mystic for res buff, heals and aoes it all goes very well :)
  • zizoun
    zizoun Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes, he stated that he thought the seeker was easier to heal but nowhere in his question did he ask if they were easier to heal.

    Imo vit seekers are preferred in 90+ because at that stage a sin or bm can easily tank the bosses whilst the seekers can pull and has a great aoe.
    As for 100+ bh seekers are definitly out of the question since a 2+ aps sin or bm can steal a bosses agro for them but barbs are still widely used as tanks. Warsong is a bh so it's pretty much the same thing.
    Nirvana sometime uses a barb but it's definitely not needed, i haven't seen a nirvana squad asking for a seeker.

    I don't know with what kind of seekers have you played but no way a 2aps char from my lvl steals aggro from my demon vortex lol
    Sometimes I even steal aggro from barbs of my level, so I guess you need to find better seekers.

    At higher levels is when a seeker really shows their power, we can tank, DD and debuff pretty good (we got phy dmg debuff that only works with skills -vortex- and not with normal attacks -aps-). And I got no problems to get into nirvana when I say i can reduce 20 def lvls on a boss whenever I want. I can do BH 100 without a barb easily since critting for 100k with vortex (it hits 3x) gives me enough aggro to hold it from other normal DDs non aps.
    A 4-5 aps steals aggro from barb or seeker so it's useless to discuss about them.
  • Bramir - Dreamweaver
    Bramir - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    TT bosses will be a different story...oneshots from guys like ape and forshura and drum are just waiting for overconfident seekers trying to do a barb's job.

    And bloodplaint doesn't help much when you are getting hit for 5k damage...
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    TT bosses will be a different story...oneshots from guys like ape and forshura and drum are just waiting for overconfident seekers trying to do a barb's job.

    And bloodplaint doesn't help much when you are getting hit for 5k damage...

    ... So you mean to tell me these "overconfident seekers" will be taking the same damage from these bosses that a level 7X in LA outside of BB will take?

    Excuse me while I go off to laugh. Not everyone is arcane or has such awful gear that they can't take a hit from TT bosses.
  • zizoun
    zizoun Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    TT bosses will be a different story...oneshots from guys like ape and forshura and drum are just waiting for overconfident seekers trying to do a barb's job.

    And bloodplaint doesn't help much when you are getting hit for 5k damage...

    this just made me laugh so much... xDD

    not even a naked seeker buffed with 30 def lvls would get 5k dmg.. lmao

    Ape does 1k on me so you can have an idea... Not every character is as squishy as a wizzard, you should try others out, rly...
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    zizoun wrote: »
    I don't know with what kind of seekers have you played but no way a 2aps char from my lvl steals aggro from my demon vortex lol
    Sometimes I even steal aggro from barbs of my level, so I guess you need to find better seekers.

    At higher levels is when a seeker really shows their power, we can tank, DD and debuff pretty good (we got phy dmg debuff that only works with skills -vortex- and not with normal attacks -aps-). And I got no problems to get into nirvana when I say i can reduce 20 def lvls on a boss whenever I want. I can do BH 100 without a barb easily since critting for 100k with vortex (it hits 3x) gives me enough aggro to hold it from other normal DDs non aps.
    A 4-5 aps steals aggro from barb or seeker so it's useless to discuss about them.

    what level are you? 80~90. If you steal agro off barbs you need to find better barbs cos they fail pretty bad.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    what level are you? 80~90. If you steal agro off barbs you need to find better barbs cos they fail pretty bad.

    Um... Zizoun mentioned having Demon Vortex, which is a level 99 skill.

    @ Zizoun: I have to dispute your claim about 2 aps sins/BMs not stealing aggro. For example, you could put a +10 R8 dagger on a sin and have them be 2.22 aps. They'd also have DPS comparable to a 4-5 aps BM at that point. Also, I would like to point out that R9 gets a maximum base aps of 2.86. I would love to see you claiming to hold aggro from a R9 Sage sin, just for hilarity points.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Um... Zizoun mentioned having Demon Vortex, which is a level 99 skill.

    I mentioned levels 80~90 because what he explained would probably only happen within those level, I wasn't being serious that he was actually 80~90
  • Allynna_ - Dreamweaver
    Allynna_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    ... So you mean to tell me these "overconfident seekers" will be taking the same damage from these bosses that a level 7X in LA outside of BB will take?

    Excuse me while I go off to laugh. Not everyone is arcane or has such awful gear that they can't take a hit from TT bosses.
    zizoun wrote: »
    this just made me laugh so much... xDD

    not even a naked seeker buffed with 30 def lvls would get 5k dmg.. lmao

    Ape does 1k on me so you can have an idea... Not every character is as squishy as a wizzard, you should try others out, rly...

    It's not the Physical attacks of TT bosses, but their Magic attacks that hurt. A Light Armour UNDER BB can be hit for upwards of 6k damage by Wurlord's magic attack. Barb's cancel and massive HP pool allows them to go through it, but with out those you'd need goodly HP and/or DPS (BP) to get through those. Heck, when people fail to catch Wurlord on my Cleric, he can practically one shot her through BB. (Though have heard of times where a higher level cleric in the Guild got One shot through BB, @.@)

    Also, those 30 defense levels will give you maybe 20% damage reduction at most on TT bosses(probably enough to offset the lack of LA defenses, but not Barb HP, or Magic Marrow.
  • Randamu - Harshlands
    Randamu - Harshlands Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Lol 1 def lvl = 1% so it would be 30% reduction.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Randamu - Harshlands wrote: »
    Lol 1 def lvl = 1% so it would be 30% reduction.

    ... It was confirmed ages ago that 1 def level != 1% reduction.

    The actual formula's, as per PWPedia:
    if (attack level > defense level) then:
    damage taken = { damage delivered * ( 1 + ({ attack level } - { defense level }) / 100 ) }
    if (attack level < defense level) then:
    damage taken = { damage delivered / ( 1 + (1.2 * ({ defense level } - { attack level }) / 100 ) ) }

    So on mobs, 30 Defense levels gives you a multiplier of ~0.735 to all damage. That is, roughly a 26% reduction.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Randamu - Harshlands
    Randamu - Harshlands Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Oh cool didn't know that ^^ Thanks
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Allynna_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It's not the Physical attacks of TT bosses, but their Magic attacks that hurt.
    That'd probably make sense as an argument but... he included Ape on that list and considering that Cosmoforce is pure physical....

    As for the magic defense thing, that's what refined elemental ornaments and CoA rings are for. That, in combination with HA's naturally high HP per refine, defense level skills, and the 50% interrupt on sage darkcloud (or a genie with earthquake) and casting from bosses won't be as hard to handle.
  • Bramir - Dreamweaver
    Bramir - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    truekossy wrote: »
    ... So you mean to tell me these "overconfident seekers" will be taking the same damage from these bosses that a level 7X in LA outside of BB will take?

    Excuse me while I go off to laugh. Not everyone is arcane or has such awful gear that they can't take a hit from TT bosses.

    You obviously have very little experience with these things...or you just don't pay attention.

    And we are talking about a seeker of appropriate level for the instance, right? I honestly just don't care if a lvl100 anything can tank a lvl80 boss...

    I have two melee class characters as well and have been doing TT since 2008. I've seen many BMs and herc's and even barbs get owned by Ape buffing himself and then smashing them. I suggest you go try it...
  • Omea - Lost City
    Omea - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Bramir - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You obviously have very little experience with these things...or you just don't pay attention.

    And we are talking about a seeker of appropriate level for the instance, right? I honestly just don't care if a lvl100 anything can tank a lvl80 boss...

    I have two melee class characters as well and have been doing TT since 2008. I've seen many BMs and herc's and even barbs get owned by Ape buffing himself and then smashing them. I suggest you go try it...

    I tanked 2-3 the first time on my barb at 77, and Cosmoforce buffed only hit me for 2.3k. I don't know what you're talking about.
    How come, if someone asks a question in a forum, at least 13/20 posts answers the question in the same exact way, 5/20 word the exact same answer differently and 2/20 say something completely unrelated to both life and death?
  • Bramir - Dreamweaver
    Bramir - Dreamweaver Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Omea - Lost City wrote: »
    I tanked 2-3 the first time on my barb at 77, and Cosmoforce buffed only hit me for 2.3k. I don't know what you're talking about.

    2.3k isn't that big a deal to a barb...but to any other class at that level it is a much larger percentage of hps....enough that after a few hits they will die. Whether they die after oneshot or three doesn't make much of a difference in anything but forum wars...
  • Ayamet - Raging Tide
    Ayamet - Raging Tide Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Even tho Barbs can't hold aggro from high APS BM or Sin, Seeker is ever worse. In BH 51, I attacked the boss at 50% on my Archer and still pulled aggro.

    That must have been a pretty fail barb...my barb is 78 now and nobody steals agro off me except for sparking/tangling mire/wind shield sins or vortexing seekers.
    I'm very responsible, when ever something goes wrong they always say I'm responsible.
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Ayamet - Raging Tide wrote: »
    That must have been a pretty fail barb...my barb is 78 now and nobody steals agro off me except for sparking/tangling mire/wind shield sins or vortexing seekers.

    The way he worded it looks like he was referring to a seeker, not a barb.

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