pure axe sage or demon

Beastyknight - Dreamweaver
Beastyknight - Dreamweaver Posts: 20 Arc User
edited May 2011 in Blademaster
Hey all, i am currently lvl 72 and i was wondering, at 89 should i go sage or demon?

I am a pure axe build because when i started playing the axe/fist build didnt really exist so i made all axe/tank. currently most of my points are in str and vit with some in dex.
I also like pve. i never really do pvp so if thats the case would it be better to do sage? because i hear demon is great for pvp but i dont pvp...Thxb:victory

Its been a while but i stopped playin for a bit, now im lvl 84 and im axe/fist and im thinking about goin demon? this a good choice?
Post edited by Beastyknight - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Pure axe is something that every lols at no offense to your "playing style", but demon would be the way to go. DEMON can do almost everything better then a sage can. Maybe literally everything.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Most end game dungeons are ran by groups who want APS users; so unfortunately, a pure axe BM stands little to no chance of getting invited to endgame dungeons.

    As far as the cultivation path, that is entirely up to you. Go on to Ecatomb and look the differences between sage and demon skills and base your decision on that, try not to let the opinions of a bunch of strangers influence YOUR game play.

    I started my BM in the first week of November of 2008, with every intention of going sage. And when I hit 89, I went sage. Ultimately, demon BMs can out damage sages, but it is highly dependent on stat distribution, speed, and equipment.

    My opinion, stay with the build that you are now until you hit your mid to high 90's. APS is almost none existent before 90 and still doesn't even get that noticeable until 99.
    Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Beastyknight - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Hey all, i am currently lvl 72 and i was wondering, at 89 should i go sage or demon?

    I am a pure axe build because when i started playing the axe/fist build didnt really exist so i made all axe/tank. currently most of my points are in str and vit with some in dex.
    I also like pve. i never really do pvp so if thats the case would it be better to do sage? because i hear demon is great for pvp but i dont pvp...Thxb:victory

    *looks at my join date, looks at yours* <- fist from level 1

    FAQ, read it (i should link ecat on that)
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    The join date on the avatar does not reflect when a player actually join. It reflects when you started using that avatar.
    Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The join date on the avatar does not reflect when a player actually join. It reflects when you started using that avatar.

    *shrug* its a commonly known forum fact but the idea remains the same.

    Just cant help but poke the pre pack axes a bit :3
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Beastyknight - Dreamweaver
    Beastyknight - Dreamweaver Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    *looks at my join date, looks at yours* <- fist from level 1

    FAQ, read it (i should link ecat on that)

    im pretty sure thats when i joined the forum. because i have the 09 ani mount and to get that you needed to be playin a year or so...

    i started at around game version 37..or somewhere in the 30s.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Going to say this before I give my "Axe only, which culti?" opinion: Axe only Bms are incomplete and your endgame should not be based off of a single weapon. Eventually you'll get tired of your lack of skills, low damage, and inability to chain other skills that 95% of other BMs can use and you will want to restat. When you consider the millions to billions of coins people invest in their endgame setup you don't want to make a skill path choice off of saving a few gold/million coin to fix your build.

    That being said, demon is still a better culti choice. Especially as an axe BM where your main duties are stun and HF. RotP never misses and has a shorter cooldown, HF lasts 9 seconds 50% longer (sage RotP requires less chi, sage HF does more fire dmg over time). You can glitch 130% fire dmg into your axe attacks by carrying level 1 fists with Drake's Breath Base for your aoes. You can glitch a crit proc on your aoes by carrying a low level pole.

    If we're talking pvp, demon Drake Bash and demon RotP make almost a perfect stunlock with perfect cooldown timing, no need to rely on 50% stun chance of aeolian like sage or genie skills (still recommend chaining, though).

    Sage pro's... erm. Their chi skill is nice. Or you can put Cloud Eruption on your genie for 3 times the chi instantly. If we're talking pvp, Li's Technique (sage chi skill) adds 50 chi but has a 60 second cd vs. a demon who can Mo Tzu off 50 chi of opponent every 30 seconds. Theoretically Sage Bell is nicer, but I'd disagree. I have 14.2k pdef (81% reducion) with my buff, 14.5k with sage bell (81% reduction), and the 75% pdef increase demon skill is in addition to my 14.2k pdef and jumps me up around 19k (86% reduction) I think, but only for 15 seconds and is spammable. A well used demon bell is much more useful than a sage bell, honestly. Other skills that are better for sage are Highland Cleave (25% chance of a 20% crit increase vs. demons speed increase) and arguably sage cyclone heel, depending on what your aps breakpoint is but neglible as an axe bm.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Sage Fissure is also helpful by lowering the target's fire resistance. So, that followed by a HF with Dragon's Breath from a wizzie is purdy combination.
    Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    *shrug* its a commonly known forum fact but the idea remains the same.

    Just cant help but poke the pre pack axes a bit :3

    Huh... Gotcha beat.

    I'm going the hard route and getting all 4 paths. >_> Since there weren't many Legendary pole weapons, I didn't get skills/mastery until 71 for it. QQ

    If you go Sage, then at least reroll for Swords. Because, two fails make a success!

    Seriously, my Sin is going Sage, my Archer went Sage. I'm not so stupid to think that Sage BM is good. >_> My Sin pulled aggro off a Sage sin at level 66... So... No, Sage isn't the way to go.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sage Fissure is also helpful by lowering the target's fire resistance. So, that followed by a HF with Dragon's Breath from a wizzie is purdy combination.

    or you could demon HF for 50% more damage form the entire squad while glitching demon GS for 100% crit.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I never specified if the HF was demon or sage though.

    But nonetheless, for the sake of the conversation; Sage Fissure, Demon HF, Demon GS, and demon/sage DB would be priceless. But the odds of having both a sage and demon BM in the same squad nowadays are rather slim.
    Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I never specified if the HF was demon or sage though.

    But nonetheless, for the sake of the conversation; Sage Fissure, Demon HF, Demon GS, and demon/sage DB would be priceless. But the odds of having both a sage and demon BM in the same squad nowadays are rather slim.

    Doesn't really matter.

    Most epic fast nirvana squads use 2 bms and 3 sins and a veno.

    A hf + poison + mire of three 5.0 sin and/or 4.0 zerk sins + 5.0 bm could drop a nirvana, tt or fb boss before that sage fissure could even cast could even cast.

    And theres also a cleric who can use that elemental seal to drop ALL resistances. That includes WATER and FIRE. Which makes a condensed thorn and dbb glitch even more deadly.

    Sage fissure is useless.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • bgmanny
    bgmanny Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    to tell u the truth i think tht saga BM are better than Demon yes demon is for spark nd interval but come on now i now plenty of axe BM tht can kill better than Fists BM also if you like axes more go ahead nd go with what u like man
  • Blaydewind - Raging Tide
    Blaydewind - Raging Tide Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    bgmanny wrote: »
    to tell u the truth i think tht saga BM are better than Demon yes demon is for spark nd interval but come on now i now plenty of axe BM tht can kill better than Fists BM also if you like axes more go ahead nd go with what u like man

    Demon isn't necessarily only for spark/interval. Demon's ability to support squads with their axe and pole ultimates outshines Sage.

    I quote a previous post:
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    or you could demon HF for 50% more damage form the entire squad while glitching demon GS for 100% crit.

    Pure path BMs are almost non-existent in the endgame levels because it limits your capabilities as a BM, so the statement of axe BMs killing fist BMs is probably something you'd witness at a lower level.

    I'm a sage high APS BM myself, but I'll admit that demon is better in the long run. I picked the path when my BM was my first character and was unaware of the importance of high APS for certain farming areas. I did want to switch to demon at some point, but I decided to keep sage mainly because I'd rather focus on my seeker who is my main now. My experience is similar to Lady's where even though I'm a sage BM, I at least know how to play my class well, and squads take me in on their Nirvana runs quite often.

    Demon makes the best use of the spark/chi: HF lasts longer, GS offers extra crits for the squad, and stuns are more precise/potent. It's mostly known for its consistent DPS via high APS w/ demon spark. I see a lot of demon BMs on my server that have demon bell, but they don't upkeep the bonus much b:sad.

    There are some things about sage that I personally like, even though I prefer to have some of the demon skills. I'm a PvE player, so you can see why I like the following. I love to interrupt bosses a lot to help prevent some damage to other squad members, so sage shadowless kick helps me reach the potential of a barb's alacrity. I find the regular roar of the pride sufficient enough to use on mobs, so having it cost less chi is a plus. I do a lot of delta, so having the crit bonus off of sage highland cleave is nice for non-chi AoEs. I like the basic damage that comes with the sage masteries, even though it's only a little bit more than demon. I like sage bell for the fact that I don't need to spam it while I'm worrying about other stuff in combat.

    The choice is yours. I've given my account of sage not being too bad (at least for what I use my BM for), but demon is better overall, in my opinion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Doesn't really matter.

    Most epic fast nirvana squads use 2 bms and 3 sins and a veno.

    A hf + poison + mire of three 5.0 sin and/or 4.0 zerk sins + 5.0 bm could drop a nirvana, tt or fb boss before that sage fissure could even cast could even cast.

    And theres also a cleric who can use that elemental seal to drop ALL resistances. That includes WATER and FIRE. Which makes a condensed thorn and dbb glitch even more deadly.

    Sage fissure is useless.

    You are assuming that every cleric uses their debuffs, when I know for a fact that some don't in instances with bosses that random agro. You are also assuming that every demon BM knows how to glitch DBB and that condensed thorn is always readily available, which is not always the case. When I was mentioning the use of Sage Fissure, I was referring to its usage in Rebirth and TW, where it is not useless.

    And the fastes Nirvana I have ever been in have been with 3 sins and 3 BM's, no venos required; although I will admit that it would have been nice.
    Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    bgmanny wrote: »
    to tell u the truth i think tht saga BM are better than Demon yes demon is for spark nd interval but come on now i now plenty of axe BM tht can kill better than Fists BM also if you like axes more go ahead nd go with what u like man

    How many times do people post a post meaning the exact same thing but in different wording here in Blademaster forum?
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • LadyofReal - Heavens Tear
    LadyofReal - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,993 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    That's just evidence that people don't know how to pay attention.
    Not motivated enough to make another PWI siggy
  • Beastyknight - Dreamweaver
    Beastyknight - Dreamweaver Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Thx for the help deciding. I think im goin demon but now i switched to axe/fist so should i still go demon?
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Beastyknight - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Thx for the help deciding. I think im goin demon but now i switched to axe/fist so should i still go demon?

    lol, if i didn't know better i'd think you're trolling.

    I'll sum up this thread and close it. Demon > Sage. Don't go single weapon path.

    /thread!
  • Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide
    Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Sage can go 5aps too! with Relentless courage and 80 str and with a lil more vit in your genie you could spam it soo the best BM PKers in lost city Are Sage BM's sob:shutup
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How many times do people post a post meaning the exact same thing but in different wording here in Blademaster forum?
    Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Sage can go 5aps too! with Relentless courage and 80 str and with a lil more vit in your genie you could spam it soo the best BM PKers in lost city Are Sage BM's sob:shutup

    You know, everyone who has no clue how bm's are played claims that.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Beastyknight - Dreamweaver
    Beastyknight - Dreamweaver Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    lol, if i didn't know better i'd think you're trolling.

    I'll sum up this thread and close it. Demon > Sage. Don't go single weapon path.

    /thread!

    lol im not trolling i really did switch xD

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