R9 dagger and TT

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary · May 2011

I started a sin for PK and the occasional TT. I'm planning to get r9 dagger and wear all possible interval for TT. My concern is with GOF add and wondering if it will let me leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

Future gear goal:
JOSD in pieces that I can and then rest will be Vit stones with the exception of my interval cape which is already sharded with attack level.
Weapon will be +12 and gear will be +10. Ornaments will probably be +5 to +10.
Standard DD pure dex build going demon.

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

From what I see you'll have 10k+ hp and demon bp so the additional heal from a proc won't cover 5% of you hp (considering sparked no-crit hits on not-debuffed bosses in 3-x). However, with the gear you got planned you probably heal more then bosses deal damage which covers the 5% hp from proc I think.

To give you an idea of how much you heal on bp with r9 :
Sage (with sage bp) with a r9 +12 and total of 83 att lvls heals around 350 (same conditions as above). Meaning with proc the additional heal is also +/- 350, which means a nullified impact on hp as long as you don't cross 7k (a little more if you want to take into account zerk+crit, but I keep it simplified). With your build you'd probably be at a bit over 200 bp heals per hit.

I'm not demon, but I think with that high hp you will get charm to tick from time to time cause of GoF. Keep in mind that the daggers proc a lot overall, and sometimes you can get many in a short time.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

It's Roid again!

Empu explained it all. But I just wanted to post. b:avoid

But, to make my post more productive, one of my factionmates has R9 dags and full interval, meaning 2.86/4 APS.

He's fully sharded with DoT and has 9k hp unbuffed. With that he never loses hp, even with proc hits. I've been in squads with him too many times, and his hp never lowers.

And all of his gear is +10, with dags being +12 with Drakeflames.

Edit: This is vs any boss that I've noticed.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · May 2011

I've done 3-1 with a GoF Sin.

The problem is that it will proc on every attack for like 2 seconds, or more, sometimes, and you'll go from 89-92% HP down to like... Nothing. Kiss 10k HP goodbye in the blink of an eye. You have to stop attacking when the RNG gets all screwed up like that, wait a second, grab yourself some more sparks, respark, and restart.

Othertimes, GoF will proc often enough that it will keep you at like 90% hp on a hard hitting boss. For some things, like the stupid hard bosses in 3-x, you wanna take a Cleric Slave with you.

Other than that... GoF and BP even out more or less, especially at 2.86 and above for APS.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

When the said factionmate and I were waiting to do a practice 79 trophy mode, we were killing the lvl 80 Captain miniboss outside the entrance. He crit proc'd 1 shot it, meaning he hit 50k+ on it. That's a 1k BP heal with demon, meaning that cancelled out the 5% HP proc of the GoF.

So more or less, against normal mobs, +12 Drakeflamed r9 dags will overheal the GoF proc easily, and it balances out against 150 bosses. Unless of course you have a surplus of 11k+ health.

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

@ Skai and Sarra : There are 2 different ways to reason though.

You can look if raw bp covers 5% hp. Like, if I proc heal is 700. So it largely covers 10k hp.

I always compare the additional heal from bp you get from proc (350 goes to 700, meaning thanks to proc you healed 350 more). If this additional bp heal makes up for 5% of hp loss, it means there is really nullified impact on your hp. This is the safest calculation, cause it erases the aps factor and the fact that your bp is supposed to heal the damage you take from boss. The first 350 heals are my normal healing for tanking the boss, the second is triggered by GoF and is to make that up (with 10k hp GoF would make you loose 150 hp per proc). Demon bp won't totally cover 5% hp this way in the stated build.

Ofc, there are a lot of more factors to take into account. The normal bp can outheal bosses damage, and then should be taken into account to cover GoF. That leads to calculations per boss that imo don't have much value. I don't take into account zerk+crit either, just sparked normal hits on a lvl? boss cause they are hardest to solo (and the post is about TT). Normal lvl bosses take way more damage, so proc is covered easily.

So, without to many calculations, I'd say that the proc has a negative impact on your hp with your build. I think it will make your charm tick from time to time, or force you to grab a pot. (But that doesn't mean you'll burn through charms just cause of the proc).

PS @ Sarra : when soloing TT I won't recommand you to stop attacking under any circomstances. If you stop attacking you have no bp and you're squished in no time.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · May 2011

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

@ Skai and Sarra : There are 2 different ways to reason though.

You can look if raw bp covers 5% hp. Like, if I proc heal is 700. So it largely covers 10k hp.

I always compare the additional heal from bp you get from proc (350 goes to 700, meaning thanks to proc you healed 350 more). If this additional bp heal makes up for 5% of hp loss, it means there is really nullified impact on your hp. This is the safest calculation, cause it erases the aps factor and the fact that your bp is supposed to heal the damage you take from boss. The first 350 heals are my normal healing for tanking the boss, the second is triggered by GoF and is to make that up (with 10k hp GoF would make you loose 150 hp per proc). Demon bp won't totally cover 5% hp this way in the stated build.

Ofc, there are a lot of more factors to take into account. The normal bp can outheal bosses damage, and then should be taken into account to cover GoF. That leads to calculations per boss that imo don't have much value. I don't take into account zerk+crit either, just sparked normal hits on a lvl? boss cause they are hardest to solo (and the post is about TT). Normal lvl bosses take way more damage, so proc is covered easily.

So, without to many calculations, I'd say that the proc has a negative impact on your hp with your build. I think it will make your charm tick from time to time, or force you to grab a pot. (But that doesn't mean you'll burn through charms just cause of the proc).

PS @ Sarra : when soloing TT I won't recommand you to stop attacking under any circomstances. If you stop attacking you have no bp and you're squished in no time.

I've had axes with Sacrifical Assault proc 6 times in a row. That's 30% of my HP. At a high APS, you can have GoF proc over and over... And it does have a high proc rate. If it's proccing on every single attack, you can just Zerk yourself to death. And I have seen that happen, in fact.

Personally, I'm going to try for G15 GoF daggers, -0.05 int, and a Sage build. 4.0 is on the way, working on Ornies right now for it, and I already have TT90 wrists and boots for souledges, whenever I'm ready to make the TT99 wrists/boots.

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've had axes with Sacrifical Assault proc 6 times in a row. That's 30% of my HP. At a high APS, you can have GoF proc over and over... And it does have a high proc rate. If it's proccing on every single attack, you can just Zerk yourself to death. And I have seen that happen, in fact.

Personally, I'm going to try for G15 GoF daggers, -0.05 int, and a Sage build. 4.0 is on the way, working on Ornies right now for it, and I already have TT90 wrists and boots for souledges, whenever I'm ready to make the TT99 wrists/boots.

I understand what you're saying, especially GoF can kick in a lot. However, on a sin you wil have bp that makes you won't loose 5%. I don't know if my reasoning is explained clearly, but on at the cost of the 5% hp you will also bp heal more, making the actual los of hp less then 5% for a sin. That is why dph is so important for me when talking about sac assault procs. The higher your dph, the more you cover the 5% hp loss.

In my case, I can proc all I want and it won't get my charm to tick (besides some exceptions, like selfbuffed 2nd boss in vana). My dph combined with sage bp makes that my heals pass from 350+ to 700+. I have 7.2k hp. So zero impact on my hp in the regular cases.

Even if in the OP build he will loose hp on a proc, it won't be 30% on 6 in a row (which you are right, that kind of proccing will happen). R9 is the best weapon to have when zerking 6+ times in a row, cause it's the highest dph daggers with the proc (and in general lol). The dph is factored out a lot with current aps-mania, but I think it takes all it's importance here.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

I started a sin for PK and the occasional TT. I'm planning to get r9 dagger and wear all possible interval for TT. My concern is with GOF add and wondering if it will let me leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

Future gear goal:
JOSD in pieces that I can and then rest will be Vit stones with the exception of my interval cape which is already sharded with attack level.
Weapon will be +12 and gear will be +10. Ornaments will probably be +5 to +10.
Standard DD pure dex build going demon.

I know a few sins with r9/ss g15 nirv/g13. My sin has g13, and the only other sins that say they can solo have ss g15. Rank 9 procs to much for you to be able to solo TT3-x's consistatntly. Now if you multi-client a half decent cleric to heal you it might be tolerable but for the most part it's not. If your sin has 20k hp (mine has 17.3k) you might be able to get away with it, or other option would be to quick switch between r9/g13/g15 ss but otherwise stick with g13 daggers for TT.

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary · May 2011

ROid, dont believe them...

even when Im demon BP'ed I suck enough... blood.
U will actually heal faster with GoF the normal hits.

ciao

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary · May 2011

U cant just calculate the proc and zerk/5% loss, when u zerk, u can crit aswell, with our builds, u get approx 45% crit.

4x dmg is good for a lot of bloodsuck.

(even in PK my life doesnt drop)

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary wrote: »

ROid, dont believe them...

even when Im demon BP'ed I suck enough... blood.
U will actually heal faster with GoF the normal hits.

ciao

No, no you wont. Now stop posting in this topic troll. b:bye

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary wrote: »

U cant just calculate the proc and zerk/5% loss, when u zerk, u can crit aswell, with our builds, u get approx 45% crit.

4x dmg is good for a lot of bloodsuck.

(even in PK my life doesnt drop)

What you say might be true, but you will also be taking damage. Your bp + sparking has to cover boss damage and proc hp los. I'm simply saying that the increase of bp that comes with the proc won't cover the procs loss in the stated build. If the normal bp you do is bigger then the damage a boss deals, ofc it's not really a problem.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, no you wont. Now stop posting in this topic troll. b:bye

RealVonDutch uses r9 daggers, so I doubt he's just trolling.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know a few sins with r9/ss g15 nirv/g13. My sin has g13, and the only other sins that say they can solo have ss g15. Rank 9 procs to much for you to be able to solo TT3-x's consistatntly. Now if you multi-client a half decent cleric to heal you it might be tolerable but for the most part it's not. If your sin has 20k hp (mine has 17.3k) you might be able to get away with it, or other option would be to quick switch between r9/g13/g15 ss but otherwise stick with g13 daggers for TT.

What you say here doesn't make much sense to me. If they can't solo TT with r9, doesn't mean it's because of the proc. There are 2 sins on my server with r9 daggers, but armor that makes them squishier then an average cleric (not referring to the person above). I highly doubt ss g15 vana daggers make a big difference, since they hit way lower so have less bp overall and less additional bp from a proc to make up for the hp loss. They may proc less, but also suffer more from a proc.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

What you say might be true, but you will also be taking damage. Your bp + sparking has to cover boss damage and proc hp los. I'm simply saying that the increase of bp that comes with the proc won't cover the procs loss in the stated build. If the normal bp you do is bigger then the damage a boss deals, ofc it's not really a problem.

RealVonDutch uses r9 daggers, so I doubt he's just trolling.

What you say here doesn't make much sense to me. If they can't solo TT with r9, doesn't mean it's because of the proc. There are 2 sins on my server with r9 daggers, but armor that makes them squishier then an average cleric (not referring to the person above). I highly doubt ss g15 vana daggers make a big difference, since they hit way lower so have less bp overall and less additional bp from a proc to make up for the hp loss. They may proc less, but also suffer more from a proc.

I'll make this simple

G13 Daggers
-5.0
-No negation in your max hp so your bp regen is pure

G15 Sac Strike & -Int Daggers
-5.0
-Lower proc rate then God of Frenzy
-Allows more damage then G13 but much higher Survivability then rank 9

rank 9
-4.0 compared to 5.0
-much higher damage, but 30% GoF rate makes survivability much more difficult
-Proc'ing several times in a row while solo'ing makes it VERY difficult to survive

Take you're pick but safest is G13, G15 does more damage and slightly lower survivability, and rank 9 can be a **** to control during a solo tt run. We also need to keep in mind that roid wants to know what is best for SOLO runs. There is no way you can possible say that rank 9 is the best option for what he is asking about.

You do have to factor in other things here besides the daggers. If you're sin does have a lot more hp (18k+) then it's a totally different story compared to a DoT build 10k hp buffed sin. I'd never advise anyone (solo wise) to use anything other then SS G15 daggers at most. I'd even be uneasy saying that those daggers are ok. When solo'ing it's not always kill the fastest, if you die you don't do much damage. ijs

PS I'm mainly talking about 3-2/3 here, 3-1 and lower honestly is mickey mouse as comparison and most sins that want to solo (esp roids as I know he's very good at gathering massive amounts of coins) shouldn't be solo'ing anything lower (for most part). I will be getting r9 for my sin, but I wouldn't be using it in a solo TT run, I may quick switch to it here or there for periods but no way I would solo exclusively with r9 daggers.

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

Your bp comparison is somewhat biaised cause you don't even take into account that r9 hits a crapload harder then g13, making the "pure bp" way higher. ijs

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

I started a sin for PK and the occasional TT. I'm planning to get r9 dagger and wear all possible interval for TT. My concern is with GOF add and wondering if it will let me leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

This also made me think the sin isn't really only a solo TT machine.

You are the first person to state that the GoF add is preventing them from soloing something they could do with g13 daggers. (and not just talking about myself, cause I know my build is not really comparable with the OP'ers project) I can see it will make a charm tick from time to time, but the daggers are not a charm burning tool, even less a suicidal tool when soloing instances.

Anyway, I think the OP has enough opinions to judge for himself now.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your bp comparison is somewhat biaised cause you don't even take into account that r9 hits a crapload harder then g13, making the "pure bp" way higher. ijs

This also made me think the sin isn't really only a solo TT machine.

You are the first person to state that the GoF add is preventing them from soloing something they could do with g13 daggers. (and not just talking about myself, cause I know my build is not really comparable with the OP'ers project) I can see it will make a charm tick from time to time, but the daggers are not a charm burning tool, even less a suicidal tool when soloing instances.

Anyway, I think the OP has enough opinions to judge for himself now.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

I started a sin for PK and the occasional TT. I'm planning to get r9 dagger and wear all possible interval for TT. My concern is with GOF add and wondering if it will let me leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

The rest of his post was all about being concerned with TTs and how r9 GoF proc rate would effect him xD. In the end i'm sure he's going to have +12 r9 and +12 something else, but for the concerns he had r9 isn't the way to go for TTs. PK though r9 is just mmm mmm good.

Okeano - Harshlands · May 2011

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-Lower proc rate then God of Frenzy
-Allows more damage then G13 but much higher Survivability then rank 9

*Smacks in the head repeatedly*
*Points to first line in sig*

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

*Smacks in the head repeatedly*
*Points to first line in sig*

*Snacks in the head repeatedly*
≠ ≠ =\=

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

o.O r9 hits a LOT harder than g13..

I mean.. on my +10'd g13 vana dags with 2 g11 garnets, i crit 15-16k each time on normal mobs. my friend that has r9 crits 27-28k each time, and that's without proc. takes me roughly 5-6 hits on average to kill a lvl 101 mob with 57k hp, while most of the time he averages 2-3 hits per mob, sometimes 1 because of GoF crit.

the damage difference is INSANE. when I read empu hits a 10k normal hit on a nirvy boss, i felt a bit noob with my 5k sparked hits. b:surrender

and to further compare, with no debuffs on the enemy, i can never crit above 100k with g13 vanas, even with spark and wolf emblem, yet r9 can easily gof crit 150k+ with an aoe.

And speaking of aoe's, to Empu: Is it possible to kill yourself AoEing a large group of mobs? To word it differently, does GoF have a chance to proc per mob during an AoE?

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

And speaking of aoe's, to Empu: Is it possible to kill yourself AoEing a large group of mobs? To word it differently, does GoF have a chance to proc per mob during an AoE?

o.O I actually never really paid attention to it, so don't blame me if I'm wrong b:chuckle

I think the proc is per attack, not per mob like crit or darken. If I proc on an aoe it affects all mobs (but well, never specificly paid attention to it). On an aoe you won't see any hp affect of the proc with bp. Aoe usually means normal lvl mobs and many targets. With a whole or half exp room you bp like 20+ times your hp. And proc hp loss and bp seems to compensate instantly.

To be sure, you could ask a bm. I never saw a bm loose tons on proc of hp while aoe grinding 25+ mobs. or a barb arma himself to dead with calamities/tt90s. (Refering to the time when there was no bp buff)

But like I said, not 100% sure of what I'm avancing here b:surrender

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

XD I asked a friend who had the g15 vanas with SS and int. He said it proc'd per mob, but the amount you heal in total is MUCH greater than what you lose. And each proc and heal is calculated one at a time, meaning if you aoe and proc on 20+ of the mobs, that doesn't mean instant death. It means each mob's proc hit will be calculated one a time, meaning overall heal covers proc hp loss since not all mobs are proc'd.

And before anyone says "what if you proc on them all", the amount you AoE per mob is already greater than a normal hit, meaning you're covered with AoEing. Not to mention crits would heal twice as much, proc or not.

xP

Empu - Sanctuary · May 2011

The main reason I think you proc on an attack, and not on a target like crit is because of sacr assault axes. A bm without bp that is aoe grinding or uses aoes in fcc (aoe on like 40 mobs), I never saw them loose loose massive hp. Sacr assault on axes would be murderous without bp, since a bm can trail huge amounts of mobs.

But well, never really paid much attention to it :P bp will always cover the hp loss on not-lvl? targets.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

I know what you mean now. I guess we're not sure now.

Also to OP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozrVN0wE_sE&feature=related

Beesh is the person I've been talking about throughout the thread. Notice his health and procs during this nirvy run.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Any SS is per attack, not per mob. If you went per mob you have a chance to losing 5% x 50 in big room that's 250% of your max hp o.o'. The most you can lose is 5% of your max HP per attack. b:victory

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary · May 2011

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No, no you wont. Now stop posting in this topic troll. b:bye

Lol me trolling, I tell from 1st hand experience that I hit well over 100k on nirvana bosses with zerk crit (when HF'ed).

There is no way ur survivability in TT or any instance will be in danger or even less secure then any other daggerZ. U kill faster and BP more.

All u got to worry is that ur grind gear has enough HP/def. So u dont get 1 or 2 shot.

ciao

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary wrote: »

Lol me trolling, I tell from 1st hand experience that I hit well over 100k on nirvana bosses with zerk crit (when HF'ed).

There is no way ur survivability in TT or any instance will be in danger or even less secure then any other daggerZ. U kill faster and BP more.

All u got to worry is that ur grind gear has enough HP/def. So u dont get 1 or 2 shot.

ciao

Apparently you're to focused on what you do in squads to read what the OP even asked. None of what you just said applies to his questions, like I said stop trolling. b:bye

RealVonDutch - Sanctuary · May 2011

U just read what u wanna read and flame who u wanna flame right...
Did I kill u in PK on the sanctuary server maybe?

Nirvana cant be solo'ed for u need 6 ppl to open it and since u cant *cough* are not allowed to open more then 2 clients I used this as an example to a previous post in this thread.

If u read the 2nd line, I will quote manually, just because I can:

"There is no way ur survivability in TT or any instance will be in danger or even less secure then any other daggerZ. U kill faster and BP more."

U see what I did there? I even placed it in ".." OMG!
Im oldschool...

now for my part of burning someone to the ground since he/she doesnt have a 1st hand experience in zerk/r9 daggerz.

Wunderkind:

Why are u trolling, go get an icecream or something.
I tell u a couple of times that u heal faster with GoF then normal bloodsuck and all you say is what you made up in your head. Gee, if I loose 5% HP I can never get that back in one hit. No you can't, but we can.
I solo TT 3-3 (except for 5 aps boss...call me noob) (U see what I did there? I used the OP's question in order to make my point).

you;re just wunderbar... and like a friend told me once I will tell you.

Wunderkind; you're good and kind... (yeah there's a catch)

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · May 2011

@Wunder Do you not know how powerful a zerk crit on a +12'd g16 dagger with 65 attack levels is? No matter what you hit, it only costs 5% of your max health. That being said, how does it make your survivability in TT much worse? It's not like we don't have BP. I mean, the faster you kill the boss, the less damage you'll be taking. With g13 +10 vanas, you'll be taking a lot more time just killing the boss.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

I started a sin for PK and the occasional TT. I'm planning to get r9 dagger and wear all possible interval for TT. My concern is with GOF add and wondering if it will let me leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

My concern is with GOF add and wondering if it will let me leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

leech back enough HP to be able to solo without using a charm.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

without using a charm.

GL accomplishing that with your omg so leet you don't understand r9 daggers. And anyone even remotely trying to say they can do it more efficiently then me with your r9, lets go. b:cute

Olbaze - Sanctuary · May 2011

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

GL accomplishing that with your omg so leet you don't understand r9 daggers. And anyone even remotely trying to say they can do it more efficiently then me with your r9, lets go. b:cute

Do note that the purpose of the sin would be TTs and PK.

And here we have people who actually own the R9 dagger telling that it's easy to solo TTs.

Also, in the video posted by Skai, obviously the sin was not charmed since we see his life tip below half a few times and there's no charm tick. And really, we only ever see the life drop a little bit below half, with it being 75% or higher majority of the time.

It's not that they're denying that a G15 Nirvana dagger with Sacrificial Strike is safer than God of Frenzy, just that they're saying that the extra safety just might not be worth the loss in damage. Especially since R9 dagger has a DPS that is on a whole another realm than Nirvana.

And really, I'd guess that Roid is after convenience rather than minimizing costs with the charm thing. What with his intended build already being ridiculously expensive and him being a ridiculously successful merchant.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do note that the purpose of the sin would be TTs and PK.

And here we have people who actually own the R9 dagger telling that it's easy to solo TTs.

Also, in the video posted by Skai, obviously the sin was not charmed since we see his life tip below half a few times and there's no charm tick. And really, we only ever see the life drop a little bit below half, with it being 75% or higher majority of the time.

It's not that they're denying that a G15 Nirvana dagger with Sacrificial Strike is safer than God of Frenzy, just that they're saying that the extra safety just might not be worth the loss in damage. Especially since R9 dagger has a DPS that is on a whole another realm than Nirvana.

And really, I'd guess that Roid is after convenience rather than minimizing costs with the charm thing. What with his intended build already being ridiculously expensive and him being a ridiculously successful merchant.

How can you even come close to compare a full squad of 2 bms 2 sins etc to a sin going to solo a TT instance? Are you really saying Nirvana is anywhere near the same level of difficulty that TT can be? You can't use that video as some sort of proof as to how the proc would react in TT if roid would go to try and solo a TT. These are two completely separate situations. If that sins dips below half a few times in a full squad of mickey mouse nirvana bosses how do you really think it's going to fair solo (without HF and amps) on an emperor or something... common logic is the only thing we can see from that video.

A 5.0 SS damage dagger wouldn't be a very far cry to damage, but the extra layer of safety vs the GoF proc is completely reasonable. If anyone really wants to argue further then well that's all up to you, but trying to argue it would be foolish. When you solo the best option is always the highest survivability, and I've even said in a previous post that I'm sure he'll end up with more then one set of +12 daggers (G13 and r9 perhaps I know he's one of the best merchants on the game) and at that point you can quick switch the two based on if he has genie skills amps what not. I have also said that it depends on his sins set up. I don't know if his sin will have 10k hp buffed or 20k with DoT....that also plays into a lot of it....we don't have all the information we can fully say, so going on the norm you have to say G15 or G13 is best with any further information TBA.

I'm not saying a r9 sin can't solo TT3-3/2, but with the options and how roid worded his questions the best answer is G13/15 daggers with r9 coming in last.

R9 dagger and TT

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