Non Biased Sage Vs Demon

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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    For me, this is kind of a hard decision. The only skills that really make me wanna go sage is BITC, cragglord, energy leech, verdant shell, and maybe thicket. But i kind of have equal thoughts about demon and sage thicket. However to me everything else seems better in demon, and you shouldnt base you desicion on one skill alone right?
    Actually, the only reason I went Sage is BitC and Verdant Shell.
    Demon, in fact, is exactly my playstyle (which looks a lot like the way I play my Venomancer) however the role of my Mystic is to focus on my heals as I play with my Seeker soulmate most of the time and I'm the healer.
    I need to keep us alive so my focus is healing and not DDing or debuffing (I do not neglect those though). Therefore, I gave up on the benefits of Demon in order to get a better heal (with that chance to purify) and some more defence for myself (as I'm naturally squishy b:laugh arcane/pure mag build).

    Just not to get me wrong, I don't consider Demon Mystics cannot heal well but what I'm saying is that for me, my opinion, my playstyle and my needs, Sage's healing skill benefits were more appealing.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • DaichiOni - Dreamweaver
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    I regret reading your post bc of that benefit

    I believe its 20% chance to take 1 damage. It uses the same terminology as the sins.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    I have a 101 archer with over 5k evasion. A BM who stuns me and starts punching me barely misses, BARELY (unless he's really bad, like... idk, _AngiVale_)

    I'm sure BMs would miss on demon Mystics with verdant shell proc up. b:cute

    Focused mind on sins can be pretty annoying sometimes lol I remember how much it pissed me off on my wiz when force of will was blocked because of it QQ
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • XMiyala - Dreamweaver
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Actually, the only reason I went Sage is BitC and Verdant Shell.
    Demon, in fact, is exactly my playstyle (which looks a lot like the way I play my Venomancer) however the role of my Mystic is to focus on my heals as I play with my Seeker soulmate most of the time and I'm the healer.
    I need to keep us alive so my focus is healing and not DDing or debuffing (I do not neglect those though). Therefore, I gave up on the benefits of Demon in order to get a better heal (with that chance to purify) and some more defence for myself (as I'm naturally squishy b:laugh arcane/pure mag build).

    Just not to get me wrong, I don't consider Demon Mystics cannot heal well but what I'm saying is that for me, my opinion, my playstyle and my needs, Sage's healing skill benefits were more appealing.

    Yea but what about demon falling petals lasting for 5 minutes? im just saying both look almost equally appealing.... but with my veno, i knew i wanted demon.
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    XMiyala - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yea but what about demon falling petals lasting for 5 minutes? im just saying both look almost equally appealing.... but with my veno, i knew i wanted demon.
    They do. This is why I stated in my previous post that I don't claim Sage Mystics being superior healers but it was just my choice according to the circumstances in which I play my character.

    I would have to apologise for not making my point entirely clear. I was saying that it is possible to choose a cultivation because of one or two skills and not consider the rest skills that said path offers. You would have to also consider what skills you will actually be able to afford and/or acquire. As I have invested most of my money into my Venomancer (and with the help of my soulmate) and I have acquire every single skill I wanted (even the 99 ones which I have yet to learn once I level up ) and needed, minus Demon Parasitic Nova, as well as having a Sage Cleric for which, getting the few skills she has, was quite pricey as well, I am left with not many resources to support my Mystic entirely. It is my third "serious" character and while I have put a lot into it, It's quite less than what I spent on my Cleric and far less than what I spent on my Venomancer.

    Therefore, I was most interested in acquiring the healing skill and the self-buff as well as Rapid Growth, which wasn't really planned, but my soulmate offered to buy it for me.I didn't look further for the rest of the skills because they are pretty much out of my reach as the moment. I don't regret going Sage however. Even if, let's say, I will get my other skills one day, I'm still happy with my choice.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • UltimaDeath - Harshlands
    UltimaDeath - Harshlands Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Better damage for Natures Vengeance(however this is only true for low lvls, because later on the 5% from Wood Mastery will do more then 600dmg)

    Am i the only one who noticed this?
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Demon skills:

    VerdantShell: Evasion increased by 20% for 15 sec
    FocusedMind: Additionally increases Evasion of negative effects by 20%
    Wings of Protection: Evasion increased to 50%, speed increased to 20%.

    yeah, Mystics tottaly have a mini focused mind
  • Asthariel - Dreamweaver
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    The best would be to have a Mystic here who learnt demon verdant shell to tell if it does change the evasion that appears in the stat window or not. So we would finally know...
    Before then, I have the same point of view on the skill as ArchAngeLi, and she just proved it with the description of the skill. So yeah, that's what I said, you guys are gonna start dodging like mad with 20% more evasion for 15 secs xD
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8149449007&dateline=1299646202[/SIGPIC]
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Demon skills:

    VerdantShell: Evasion increased by 20% for 15 sec
    FocusedMind: Additionally increases Evasion of negative effects by 20%
    Wings of Protection: Evasion increased to 50%, speed increased to 20%.

    yeah, Mystics tottaly have a mini focused mind

    b:cute Click the bear.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaichiOni - Dreamweaver
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Demon skills:

    VerdantShell: Evasion increased by 20% for 15 sec
    FocusedMind: Additionally increases Evasion of negative effects by 20%
    Wings of Protection: Evasion increased to 50%, speed increased to 20%.

    yeah, Mystics tottaly have a mini focused mind
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The best would be to have a Mystic here who learnt demon verdant shell to tell if it does change the evasion that appears in the stat window or not. So we would finally know...
    Before then, I have the same point of view on the skill as ArchAngeLi, and she just proved it with the description of the skill. So yeah, that's what I said, you guys are gonna start dodging like mad with 20% more evasion for 15 secs xD
    Increases own status evasion by 20% for 15 seconds.
    UltimaDeath - Harshlands wrote: »
    Better damage for Natures Vengeance(however this is only true for low lvls, because later on the 5% from Wood Mastery will do more then 600dmg)

    Am i the only one who noticed this?
    I am a demon wiz with demon gush and rank 8. The extra 600 damage is there. I've also been a sage wiz with sage gush + sage water mastery. The damage is there too (although I didn't have rank 8 when I was sage). I mainly noticed water mastery on my harder hitting skills like BIDS and glacial snare. Anyways, I rather have the bonus damage + 2% crit rather than flat out bonus damage. Mystic crits hurt.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    You all suck, now I have to update my Demon vs Sage bisaed guide thread again!!!

    If Mooy said it, it's true hehe.

    On a side not... I like the steady damage and 2% less crit than relying on crits like an archer hehe. I wanna hurt even without crits.
  • DaichiOni - Dreamweaver
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    You all suck, now I have to update my Demon vs Sage bisaed guide thread again!!!

    If Mooy said it, it's true hehe.

    On a side not... I like the steady damage and 2% less crit than relying on crits like an archer hehe. I wanna hurt even without crits.

    Yea steady damage is nice, but its spike that kills in PvP. Mystic skills base damage is meh.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yea steady damage is nice, but its spike that kills in PvP. Mystic skills base damage is meh.

    Actually, the sage bonus is so good that you could respec 40 points out of magic, and put it into dex for an extra 2% crit, and you'd still hit for about the same damage as a demon mystic due to the 5% increased damage from masteries. And it passes demon damage when you triple spark or get cleric m. attack buffs as the 5% applies to that as well. so yeah. Take that, demons!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I dont think Sage wood mastery is that much more good. 2% crit is very good too. Keep in mind that SAGE wood mastery just affect "Wood damage" which doen not apply to AB, and the first hit of Swirling Mist. So..out of 6 attack skills wood sage mastery just affect 4 of them and demon 2% crit applies to 5 of them...

    Correction thicket also is not affected...so:

    Sage mastery affects 3 out of 5
    Demon mastery affects 4 out of 5
  • DaichiOni - Dreamweaver
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    Actually, the sage bonus is so good that you could respec 40 points out of magic, and put it into dex for an extra 2% crit, and you'd still hit for about the same damage as a demon mystic due to the 5% increased damage from masteries. And it passes demon damage when you triple spark or get cleric m. attack buffs as the 5% applies to that as well. so yeah. Take that, demons!

    Demon high channel + high crit + decent survivability > sage w/ 40 dex.

    Crits get affected by spark and m.attack buff too (if you think about it technically).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yea steady damage is nice, but its spike that kills in PvP. Mystic skills base damage is meh.

    I know, thats why demon BMs rock in PvP...

    plus, 2% crit ftw !!! demon mystics crit like crazy damn it
  • Fenrina - Heavens Tear
    Fenrina - Heavens Tear Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    Actually, the sage bonus is so good that you could respec 40 points out of magic, and put it into dex for an extra 2% crit, and you'd still hit for about the same damage as a demon mystic due to the 5% increased damage from masteries. And it passes demon damage when you triple spark or get cleric m. attack buffs as the 5% applies to that as well. so yeah. Take that, demons!

    No offense, I'd rather just give my genie Leaf Dance or get the crit from gear than give up 40 Magic. 40 Vit I can understand. 40 Dex, not so much.
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No offense, I'd rather just give my genie Leaf Dance or get the crit from gear than give up 40 Magic. 40 Vit I can understand. 40 Dex, not so much.

    He was just giving an example of how sage mystics could get an equivalent crit rate of demon and still have around the same mag attack with their mastery, not that he actually does have 40 dex. :o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Iseria - Harshlands
    Iseria - Harshlands Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    2% crit ftw !!! demon mystics crit like crazy damn it

    I see what u did there and I lol'd
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    VoItaire - Harshlands wrote: »
    He was just giving an example of how sage mystics could get an equivalent crit rate of demon and still have around the same mag attack with their mastery, not that he actually does have 40 dex. :o

    You cant get the same "mag. attack", what you can get is the same "Damage". And if you do...what about all other stuff that you need Magic points??? Like Heals, Mana, magic defense...etc... will you sacrifice all that for 40 points in Dex??
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    OK let me put it this way. If you go demon mystic for the wood mastery, you're essentially giving up 40 points worth of magic. That's what 5% vs 2% is worth. 5 > 2, right? 1% crit and 1% more damage both increase your dps by 1%.

    But yeah I agree I wouldn't put 40 points in dex myself; I'd rather be hitting 5% harder than demon mystics while still having 18% crit rate from gears and an on-demand crit from lucky break.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    lies, demon mystic 2% extra crit is so awsum dat I'm switchin culti as we speak !!!
  • DaichiOni - Dreamweaver
    DaichiOni - Dreamweaver Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    OK let me put it this way. If you go demon mystic for the wood mastery, you're essentially giving up 40 points worth of magic. That's what 5% vs 2% is worth. 5 > 2, right? 1% crit and 1% more damage both increase your dps by 1%.

    But yeah I agree I wouldn't put 40 points in dex myself; I'd rather be hitting 5% harder than demon mystics while still having 18% crit rate from gears and an on-demand crit from lucky break.
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    lies, demon mystic 2% extra crit is so awsum dat I'm switchin culti as we speak !!!

    Have been a sage wiz and a demon wiz on the same character. I can say that I prefer the 3% crit to the 5% damage. The 5% damage is nice and all, but spike is what kills in PvP.

    Also considering that my mystic's aim is high channeling and high crit rate. :3

    I'm not saying I'm basing my choice 100% on wood mastery, I'm simply stating it is a perk.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Rubblemancer - Sanctuary
    Rubblemancer - Sanctuary Posts: 191 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    lies, demon mystic 2% extra crit is so awsum dat I'm switchin culti as we speak !!!

    but, but... you've been such a beacon of the sage mystic! I don't know what I'll do if you go demon!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks to Silvy for the awesome sig!
  • VoItaire - Harshlands
    VoItaire - Harshlands Posts: 1,033 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Mysticarella - Lost City wrote: »
    You cant get the same "mag. attack", what you can get is the same "Damage". And if you do...what about all other stuff that you need Magic points??? Like Heals, Mana, magic defense...etc... will you sacrifice all that for 40 points in Dex??

    Whoops misworded my post, thx for the correction though, and I would never stat dex for any reason. Anyway, I don't think the mastery should be a deciding point on whether you go sage or demon since it's the same for every class. I just looked at the actual skill effects, but that's just me. :b
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cerydwen - Harshlands
    Cerydwen - Harshlands Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    So what I'm getting as one of the arguments about going sage is less MP cost? Really? lol. I would hate to see what kind of gear mystics out there are sporting if they complain about MP cost.

    Also, I don't agree that Demon generate more chi, sages do. But there are other ways to do this as well. 2 spark pots, cloud eruption and if you play a cleric/support role in group pvp, you will always have chi to defend yourself with the 79 skill and endless energy leech for anti-stun.

    My original opinion about sage was it is extremely good for 1 vs 1 pvp, but lets be realistic. That never happens in pk hotspots where u get ganked by multiple people. I've always been a group-pvp oriented kind of person so my decision to become demon was exactly to fulfil that role in pvp/tw. I will probably be doing less damage and more support to the group so demon seems to fit that role quite nicely and almost all your Pro's about demon seem to fit it.


    -The aoe's help seal group of people more effectively.
    -The Thicket seems to have a chance (although it seems to be low) to debuff for squad spike damage (if it procs anyways). Granted a BM would be better here, but it's still nice.
    -The bramble Tornado (although I wont be getting it because 1 meter more seems like ****) could push enemies further away. I honestly just use the skill to interrupt and push back sins.
    -The demon rez can help anyone who isn't charmed to rez back to full HP so they can try to get away easier.
    -Cragglord has a chance to cost 1 less spark, which could be extremely beneficial for spike damage with a group.

    Btw, even if Demon verdant shell doesn't give the extra 10% reduction to damage addon (which I'm assuming takes sage Verdant shell to 100%) At level 11, Demon still boosts it to 90% from 80%. So it seems kind of petty to argue that an extra 10% makes sages better overall.

    So there, those are the reasons I chose demon and they seem to be working well so far ^^
    ArmaniEx - Harshlands
    I don't Wanna be in guild with idiots who tlkd tons of **** to me in the past for example MrsNospheratu who constantly pms me trash talk...LIKE NIGGUH U ROCKING R9 SET +11 ,not only do you suck...but your QQ is outrageous.

    True Story yo b:chuckle
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Cerydwen - Harshlands wrote: »
    '
    My original opinion about sage was it is extremely good for 1 vs 1 pvp, but lets be realistic. That never happens in pk hotspots where u get ganked by multiple people.

    Yeah, cause demon spark doesn't withdraw any attention to you and it does't give you damage reduction in the meantime. Demon rocks for world pvp / tw !

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