Some Thoughts About Demon Skills

GohRaL - Sanctuary
GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
edited July 2011 in Barbarian
Hi there everybody ive finally managed to get most of the demon skill for my barb, and id like to let you know my point of view about some of em. From ecatomb you can check the effect of every skill but some skill worked differently from what ive though they would thats why im posting this.

Lets start.

Beast King Inspiration: the increase of 5% hp is just awesome, but what makes this skill even better is the RANGE-CHI-BUILDING ability they added. The gain is even better than what you can get from SAGE Li Tecnique. In the same period of time you can built a full 3 spark for every team member in range instead of just 1 for you.


Strenght Of The Titans: less powerfull than sage, but adds a squad buff of +5% critical rate that last 1 minute. This is very usefull in some situations, but also unconvenient in some other since this TIMED CRITCAL BUFF CANT BE OVERWRITTEN.

Into that minute range this critical buff WONT STACK to any other critical buff ive tested yet. But the worst thing is that i cant be overwritten also. So under this 1minute period, every critical rate modification wont affect the character.

This means that if you use D. Bestial Onslaught or D. Sunder right after Titans, you wont gain the whole affect of those skill critical wise.

Btw this is very usefull to use in squad situation, like in delta i always buff with titan while coming back from lure


Roar: this skill is awesome and its bramble effect make it worth use also in pvp situation LIKE TW, DUELS, CUBE and other pk instances. When you are facing high-APS character is a nice countermeasure to use. Now i dont recommend to tank a 3sparked 5.0 enemy, but when you are brambled it makes things a lot easier.

For the pve aspects of the skill, the bramble effect let you have even more aggro towards your enemy. Another nice thing of this skill is that combined with D. Sunder gives you a a 5 seconds of 100% damage refected, and every reflected attack is critical. That gives even more aggro, i use this combo while luring in delta.

The brambled roar effect + the critical damge from sunder skill + the bleed effect + the critical reflect is just perfect for a starting aggro when u have powerfull DD in squad.


Sunder: one of the reason i went demon. The only thing that made me think a little was the healing effect. Im not talking of the reduction from 4.8k to 4k HP, but im talking about the recovery effect of how you get this HP back. I dont know how the sage vesion works but the demon version gives you back 4k HP DIRECTLY, so is not an healing over time, like it used to be.

This is very helpful in situation in which you need some HP instantly. When you are close to die, is best to get a nice amount of HP directly instead of basically erase the next damage incoming since every hit could be the coup de grace if it overcomes the little healing over time.

The critical effect is awesome. The skill hit itself is critical and the rest of the attacks will be critical after it for 5seconds. Can be combined with other skills for devastating effects but cuz of the short range of time, the timing is very important.

Just to let you know, IT IS POSSIBLE to combined demon sunder with armageddon. You just need to be fast in the form switch and the activation of skill. If everything goes smooth you will be able to have 2 of the most powerfull skill we dispose to be critical.


Bestial Onslaught: another skill that made me fall in love with demon cultivation. Ranged, strong hitting and also evasion debuffing. This skill had everything a barb would love, what can you do to make it better ? Add a huge critical increase buff that last almost as long as the skill duration/cd.

I dont know why, but to me this skill has the tendency to be critical very ofter. Probably cuz the critical effect also affect the skill itself, just like sunder does. So you have about 40% chance of land a critical hit with one of the most powerfull skill we have. This my favourite pvp skill and many times is a 1shot kill against average geared players.

This skill combined with every other attack we have is a huge boost in our damage.



I love every demon skill with just the exception of 2 maybe, but i wanted to post this just to enlighten the ones who were wondering about these skills.
As i said at the beginning, the rest of skills effect is very easy to get and its not so difficult to be mastered or at least understand.

Long live the demon barb b:chuckle
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


>RETIRED<
Post edited by GohRaL - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Fistol - Raging Tide
    Fistol - Raging Tide Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    very informative.

    Would be better to share those 2 demon skill you dont like and turn it into a general sharing for demon skills.

    Strength of the titans btw..

    ty for sharing.
    Fist Wizard ~ Truely Unique
    Going for
    Build : pwcalc.com/8b326a9b66b300af
    While waiting
    Build : pwcalc.com/c879da9e1aad795c
    HA Melee (Pre99)-> LA Claw (99+)-> LA Claw+Magic (101)
  • lizrau
    lizrau Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Demon is win. Lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


    Sig credits to Myra :D
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    roar doesn't work in pk.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    roar doesn't work in pk.

    Oh, i hadnt the chance to try it out on pvp yet.

    That sucks if it doesnt work, but seeing that it has an icon like bramble i thought i would have worked...



    @Fistol: well, i dont like penetrate armor and bestial rage...

    I prefer the sage version of penetrate since it has more p.def reduction.

    For bestial rage id prefer to have a longer duration instead of an higher chi return. Thats cuz with longer duration you should get more chi out of single opponent situation, while for aoe grinding the difference is like null since it equals. I still like demon version and i learned it anyway.


    The only skills im still waiting to learn cuz of spirit lack are: surf, stomp, garrotte, slam and firestorm

    i miss armageddon, penetrate, alacrity and feral books
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • Fistol - Raging Tide
    Fistol - Raging Tide Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    @Fistol: well, i dont like penetrate armor and bestial rage...

    I prefer the sage version of penetrate since it has more p.def reduction.

    For bestial rage id prefer to have a longer duration instead of an higher chi return. Thats cuz with longer duration you should get more chi out of single opponent situation, while for aoe grinding the difference is like null since it equals. I still like demon version and i learned it anyway.


    The only skills im still waiting to learn cuz of spirit lack are: surf, stomp, garrotte, slam and firestorm

    i miss armageddon, penetrate, alacrity and feral books

    higher chi return probably means you get chi faster for a situation of 1v1,
    do you really want to get hit a few more time then needed to get the chi you need?
    not that its an important point.

    i do think demon barb skills are quite strong esp with the skills you mention at the start being the ones that tilt the scale of balance towards demon.
    Fist Wizard ~ Truely Unique
    Going for
    Build : pwcalc.com/8b326a9b66b300af
    While waiting
    Build : pwcalc.com/c879da9e1aad795c
    HA Melee (Pre99)-> LA Claw (99+)-> LA Claw+Magic (101)
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    crit buffs overwrite demon titans
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    @fistol: in a pve situation id like to have a buffs that works 20sec out of 30 instead of 15sec out of 30. But anyway the chi gain in the end is almost always the same from sage and demon. So is just a lil complain, just personal preference.

    I mean, when i was aoe grinding with bestial rage level1, i always had the chi to do 3 skills that requires 2spark each in a time range of like 20-30seconds. And i ended up with 2spark and a half usually.
    Now that i have demon version the chi gain is so fast that i feel that like 5 seconds of the skill are waisted since im at 399 chi already. With sage version im sure im able to do all this, but ill probaly end up with more chi when all the mobs are down.

    crit buffs overwrite demon titans


    Im sorry to burst your bubble, but im 100% SURE that our skills dont overwrite titans.

    I watched the character sheet constantly while using these skills, and im sure that titan fix the critical increase to +5...

    I also tried faction base critical buff and it doesnt stack nor erase. Also at the end of the minute, you return to your base crit rate. There's no way i discover yet to make titans buff to stack with other critical buffs

    EDIT: i tried the opposite situation. I bought faction critical buff minor (+3%) and then i used titans. The result was that the faction base buff WAS NOT ERASED NOR IT STACKED with titans.

    Now atm i dont remember any other crit rate increase i might try beside those mentioned. There are genie skill and djinn buff in 3-x, but since i dont have leaf dance and im not in 3-x i cant tell you if that works.

    I think that the odd rule (that doesnt always apply) of the same icon buff not stacking works critical wise.


    Another funny thing ive found is that when using Sunder, the critcal rate on the character sheet is 95% and not 100%, but still every attack is critical.
    With demon sunder and my base 0.91 aps i managed to do like sunder + 4 normal hits or sunder +2 skills (surf and alacrity)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    @fistol: in a pve situation id like to have a buffs that works 20sec out of 30 instead of 15sec out of 30. But anyway the chi gain in the end is almost always the same from sage and demon. So is just a lil complain, just personal preference.

    I mean, when i was aoe grinding with bestial rage level1, i always had the chi to do 3 skills that requires 2spark each in a time range of like 20-30seconds. And i ended up with 2spark and a half usually.
    Now that i have demon version the chi gain is so fast that i feel that like 5 seconds of the skill are waisted since im at 399 chi already. With sage version im sure im able to do all this, but ill probaly end up with more chi when all the mobs are down.





    Im sorry to burst your bubble, but im 100% SURE that our skills dont overwrite titans.

    I watched the character sheet constantly while using these skills, and im sure that titan fix the critical increase to +5...

    I also tried faction base critical buff and it doesnt stack nor erase. Also at the end of the minute, you return to your base crit rate. There's no way i discover yet to make titans buff to stack with other critical buffs

    EDIT: i tried the opposite situation. I bought faction critical buff minor (+3%) and then i used titans. The result was that the faction base buff WAS NOT ERASED NOR IT STACKED with titans.

    Now atm i dont remember any other crit rate increase i might try beside those mentioned. There are genie skill and djinn buff in 3-1, but since i dont have leaf dance and im not in 3-1 i cant tell you if that works.

    I think that the odd rule (that doesnt always apply) of the same icon buff not stacking works critical wise.


    Another funny thing ive found is that when using Sunder, the critcal rate on the character sheet is 95% and not 100%, but still every attack is critical.
    With demon sunder and my base 0.91 aps i managed to do like sunder + 4 normal hits or sunder +2 skills (surf and alacrity)

    buffed my bm with demon titans

    Glitched GS

    5 seconds later buff was gone

    had the barb onslaught me, 8 seconds later buff was gone

    debuffs never overwrite buffs do
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • DangerField - Dreamweaver
    DangerField - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    GohRal speaks the truth. If you buff with titans and after use onslaught or glitch it you will remain at a +5% crit bonus.

    I cant speak for other classes/skills.
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    @DangerField: ive always wondered how to glitch onslaught to aviod CD and stuff. Some friends of mine told me to switch weapon while doing it, i tried but i cant manage to do it. Ive also try to cancel channelling with esc but same result as above, didnt glitch.

    If you know how to do it, can you enlight me pls ? b:thanks

    buffed my bm with demon titans

    Glitched GS

    5 seconds later buff was gone

    had the barb onslaught me, 8 seconds later buff was gone

    debuffs never overwrite buffs do


    Well i dont know what you are speaking about cuz as far as i know Onslaught is a single person buff (user) and not squad, so what do you mean by "had the barb onslaugh me" b:puzzled...


    I dont know how titans works with other classes critical buffs. I dont know if glacial spike can overwrite it if you glitch it or doesnt if you dont glitch it...


    What im sure of is that TITAN on barb cant be overwritten. 1000% sure b:sad
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • Wunderkind - Dreamweaver
    Wunderkind - Dreamweaver Posts: 315 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Nothing overwrites any of the crit buffs. I've tried many but they never work sooooo choose wisely when you buff that before a boss (esp for sins they can get mad). Honestly, I prefer my sage buffs over any of the demon buffs.
    Currently: pwcalc.com/b4c92dacf1da8c21
  • DangerField - Dreamweaver
    DangerField - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I find the best way to glitch it is to give onslaught and claws a hotkey and click them fast after each other. with some lag like the tiger event it can be hard to get the timing right, but try experiment with it.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    roar doesn't work in pk.

    Doesn't work in map pk or tw but it works in duels and instance pk like Warsong, Cube, and Delta.

    Also, 99% sure I've Glacial Spiked away a titans crit buff.

    Gohral, I'll teach you to channel cancel (glitch). Hit me up in game, buddy. Not sure if its legal to say how in forums but since they're never stopped since or bm's from explaining it here goes. They can edit it out and mail me if its not allowed.



    Beastial Onslaught has a .4 sec channel and requires axes. To glitch you need to change out of axes after the channel starts but before the cast starts.

    *If you are an axe barb, hot key axes and BO. Tap BO and "roll" your fingers like a drumroll speed to your axe hotkey. This unequips them and stops the channel. You now have the buff. Hit the axe hotkey again to equip. Start attacking because the interupt stops your auto attack.

    *If you are a claw barb start with axes, use BO, switch to claws as your BO is channeling. Atack.

    Some people find it helps to be running up at something but because BO is ranged it might help you get your timing but you'd spend a fraction of the buff then closing the distance to attack, but at least you'd see it done.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    OK saku. I hadnt much time to play these days, but ill try it out and we'll meet for sure.


    What i was wondering now is: if i glitch BO, does it means that i wont use BO attack but just his critical effect ?

    Because if its like that, i wouldnt bother to glitch it. Im an axe barb and anyway i have limited attack rate, so im just losing an attack or two maybe. If i was an high APS barb that second more could make the difference tho.



    For roar doesnt working, its a shame. In the next TW ill try using it on a tower just to see if the bramble icon comes up. I belive what Saku said, but i wanna see with my eyes how is working.

    Cuz if i use Roar and i dont get the icon, is one thing. If i use it and get the icon bu not the reflect effect, is another thing.

    In the end is the same sine it wont work, but i wanna test it in next TW.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • DangerField - Dreamweaver
    DangerField - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    im pretty sure demon roar does work in tw (same as veno bramble/hood).
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    As danger said, i tested it on last TW and demon roar's reflect effect works just fine.


    @Joshcja: i did some tests with a BM friend (ty Saku b:victory). And we tried out some combination with demon titans and glacial spike. Unfortuantely for you BMs the buff cant be erased.



    lil recap:

    1)demon titan crit buff cant be erased nor stick with any other cirt buff

    2)demon roar works on TW

    3)demon BKI works better than sage chi tecnique

    4)demon sunder hits as a critic attack and cap crit at 95% for 5sec

    5)demon bestial onslaught hits as a +35%attack and can be glitched by switching the weapon just after you clicked on it


    IMO, i dont see the point for an AXE BARB to use this glitch since you cant enjoy the buff effect if your not using your weapon. Cuz the only way to glitch it is to have a non regular weapon (or no weapon) when the channeling is about to start. That means that the time you spend to switch off your weapon to glitch (no attacking) is the same time you would have spent to actually attack the enemy with one of our most powerfull skill.

    NOt worth it...


    one more thing:

    BARB POWER !!! b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • Sir_Puma - Raging Tide
    Sir_Puma - Raging Tide Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Nice pic there :)

    Also confirmed something for me.. I thought my hp was kinda low on my barb , now 89 and had concerns on going demon. I now see by ur hp on that pic that I should be fine b:victory
    Proud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle
  • Furries - Dreamweaver
    Furries - Dreamweaver Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    my stickied guide goes into some detail about demon skills.

    so far all of your data is correct.

    i have all tiger form demon skills as well as bloodbath, titian, BKI, bestial rage and onslaught.

    i have to say demon devour is REALLY nice becuase it lasts the entire duration of spark and longer duration means less casting so u use less chi in the long run.

    Surf impact also is nice demon with a very noticeable damage increase.

    Sunder is truely epic aslthough it is sad that during the 1 min duration of titians sunder crit buff wont work.

    sunder also only has a 95% crit rate as that is the cap. although in all reality u wont notice, and u do lose 800 hp on the heal from lvl 10s 4800 over time to to 4k instantly.
    still demon sunder is epic

    Bestial rage demon is definitely worth it

    as the demon version gives u 3 sparks in the same amont of hits the original gives you 2 sparks.

    and the 4k magic absorb is a lot more noticeable than the original 2k

    poison fang is a nice increase as well

    and even demon titans gives u a noticeable damage increase although i think sage wins on this skill.

    I got demon ssintensiy the same time i got my tt90 gear so i could never tell the difference

    and flesh ream certainly does more damage over time but i haven't noticed an aggro difference

    roar while it does get annoing with a veno in the sqaud really has saved my *** more times than i can count.

    no sin i have faced has been able to survive demon roar unless they absolute domain or were quick enough to stop attacking.
    even then they only have about 2 seconds to react b4 thier toast

    blademasters are much harder as alter physical in tandem with higher def and aura of golden bell makes then take FAR less damage (about 1/5th) from the reflect then sin do and thier stun lock makes them a far more worth adversary. quite a few +10 geared BM have shrugged off demon roar even with them demon sparked and were able to get a easy kill on me.

    but sins have no chance again demon roar.

    alacrity shorter cooldown is nice and it has a decent damage increase

    frightens stun is nice when it works but is absurdly unreliable, and the damage reduction doesn't increase, so its not that high a priority


    bloodbath.. is amazing perfect ambers are cheap and for only 11 mill or so each u can get amber gems. with +300 accuracy. which easily push u into the 5k accuracy range range with demon bloodbath.

    i NEVER used bloodbath until i got it demon.

    now unless im tanking and need my full hp.. i never have it off. its truely awesome
    Killing level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.