91 Assassin LF Faction
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Yay! a sage/demon sin debate!
Sage Sin "We have to push one more button then you do"
Demon sin "neneneener but but but my lack of button pushing means i do more DPS"
Sage sin " yea but guess what! my button has a sage add that makes my one extra button hit harder"
Demon sin " yea but, i can move my 3 buttons in any order on my skill bar, and still have the same results"
zzzzzzzzz0 -
Yay! a sage/demon sin debate!
Sage Sin "We have to push one more button then you do"
Demon sin "neneneener but but but my lack of button pushing means i do more DPS"
Sage sin " yea but guess what! my button has a sage add that makes my one extra button hit harder"
Demon sin " yea but, i can move my 3 buttons in any order on my skill bar, and still have the same results"
zzzzzzzzz
i feel really bad for whoever your try explaining each cultivation to.0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »i feel really bad for whoever your try explaining each cultivation to.
Why? wouldn't take much to teach a monkey to play a sin..... You seem to know alot about them..b:thanks0 -
Why? wouldn't take much to teach a monkey to play a sin..... You seem to know alot about them..b:thanks
Doesn't take much to teach anybody play this game in general..
However, my friend, there's a difference between playing and playing well.
Also, we're not discussing how to play them, we're discussing different skill sets for different cultivations.
It really is sad to see this.
Can't troll and joke around because people biitch about it.
Can't discuss something important in game because people biitch about it.
Lets start a petition to just close out pwi forums in general.0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »Doesn't take much to teach anybody play this game in general..
However, my friend,there's a difference between playing and playing well.
Also, we're not discussing how to play them, we're discussing different skill sets for different cultivations.
It really is sad to see this.
Can't troll and joke around because people biitch about it.
Can't discuss something important in game because people biitch about it.
Lets start a petition to just close out pwi forums in general.
b:laugh
Oh an to add...play well? It is common knowledge across all other servers, and includeing this little dead haven you call home. Sins themselves are like a new server.. The class everyone plays after failing at their first one. b:laugh0 -
b:laugh
Oh an to add...play well? It is common knowledge across all other servers, and includeing this little dead haven you call home. Sins themselves are like a new server.. The class everyone plays after failing at their first one. b:laugh
just because something isn't important to you doesn't mean it's not important to others.
if you really believe otherwise, you're just an ignorant, egocentric moron.
moving on
I play archer, and I play archer well. I still believe I'm a better archer player than sin player. Sins are being rolled by many as farming tools. Not everybody rolls sin for the same reason you would :O0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »I'm not picking and choosing, I'm asking you to give me YOUR examples.
You mentioned two: Throatcut and Powerdash.
Throatcut: throatcut would be better in pvp and pve for demon because it amplifies damage. all sage does is brings it from a 95% chance to a 100% chance of silencing.. also, the fact that you mention throatcut as a pve skill really does make me question your "skill".
Sage Powerdash: For PvE, yes, it is better, but not for PvP... However, you just stated that you're not focusing on being the highest Damage Dealer possible, which you won't be. Even if I, as a demon, don't have my demon version of powerdash and you have your sage powerdash, and we have the same daggers, same refines, same interval, you won't ever outDPS me because 5 aps is 25% more damage than 4 aps.
Now, you say you won't PK, and you'll TW, and you need to have skills to TW.
I wonder, have you ever TWd as a sin?
It's extremely difficult to be effective as a sin in TW. Ask ANY sin. Sage and demon alike.
What you need mostly in TW is to have your force stealth ready and not on cooldown. Check that skill out for demon. It has a faster cooldown. Also, being able to cast your shadow walk faster so you don't get targetted and it cancels. That's what demon does. What does sage shadow walk do? reduces mp usage by 3 mp per sec...
You'll also need your targets in place so you aren't chasing them as surrounding enemies take you down. Demon has longer stuns. By 2 seconds. Demon HH lasts 7 seconds and Demon telestun lasts 5.
You say you want to go sage because you want to use your skills...
This is really ignorant to say because you're more than likely assuming that all demon sins just normal attack and dont use any skills at all.
In my opinion, you just need more experience.
Then do tell me, what is the point of 5 APS if you are using skills rather than focusing on using that APS to do the damage, in PvE that is? When you use Throatcut, that is 12 attacks, not counting any delay between the end of the skill and going back to auto attack. It sounds like it is minimizing your damage in PvE, especially since the effect does not last long. However, a 100% interrupt (which is what I like about it) means that when a boss decides to launch an AoE or a powerful attack, it can be stopped.
As for Powerdash, as you said, it is better for PvE in sage, which is what I am focusing on. I also did not say I'm not focusing on being the highest DD possible, I said I am not going to focus on being 4-5 APS right away. A small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
And you are right, I won't ever out DPS you against a boss with all the same equipment (though I would be questioning why you have Barrier Thorn instead of R8 on demon). However, half of my damage is pretty much already done against most bosses with just one sage Rib Strike.
As for the reason for going sage, it is not because I want to "use my skills." It is because I like the skills better for the way I play my Assassin. I don't play the same way as every other Assassin, so that means that demon is not necessarily best for me. If it is an admittance that demon is better than sage on an Assassin that you are looking for, no need, I'd agree without a doubt. It does not mean though that it is best for me, which is why I am going sage.
Sure, I probably have not had nearly as much experience as others on Assassin, I'm not so arrogant as to think I do. I do know how I play my Assassin, and that sage is right for me. You have said it yourself anyways, people roll Assassins for different reasons, many typically as a tool for farming. I enjoy playing my Assassin, and would rather not lessen my experience by just going 5 APS and losing out on the way I like to play it.
brent40, if you insist on trolling this conversation, you could at least do us the pleasure of doing it well. You are just being a nuisance at this point, and if anything are giving something for Zhadi and I to agree on.0 -
I play archer, and I play archer well.
That certainly is debatable. Maybe back in the days of..... meh nevermind.
I can see why you'd be the next sin playing type.b:chuckle0 -
brent40, if you insist on trolling this conversation, you could at least do us the pleasure of doing it well. You are just being a nuisance at this point, and if anything are giving something for Zhadi and I to agree on.
How about you as a troll, stop dictating my trolling?
This conversation wasn't about how pathetic the siage sin is anyway. Was about some newbie sin looking for a faction. So in theory, how about you practice your preaching habits? Or even better b:shutup0 -
How about you as a troll, stop dictating my trolling?
This conversation wasn't about how pathetic the siage sin is anyway. Was about some newbie sin looking for a faction. So in theory, how about you practice your preaching habits? Or even better b:shutup
Well, considering I'm not trolling, your first statement is pretty much invalid. However, the conversation evolved into a discussion about sage/demon. I only asked that if you troll, you do it well. If you are telling me to practice what I preach, are you saying I should start trolling? I'd rather not, seeing as Zhadi and I are having a nice conversation as it is.
Instead of doing as you say, I think I'll just go on my merry way. After all, it is not like you are of any significance to me to even think about listening to you, so long as you decide to act like a troll.0 -
ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »
Instead of doing as you say, I think I'll just go on my merry way. After all, it is not like you are of any significance to me to even think about listening to you, so long as you decide to act like a troll.
Awesome! you do just that. Your debate in troll/none troll is just as contradictory as you sage/demon sin one anyway.b:kiss0 -
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ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »I shall. My, what a cute little troll you are. Have a good day, sir. b:chuckle
I must be! you resistance to go a merry way is weakening b:thanks0 -
ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »Then do tell me, what is the point of 5 APS if you are using skills rather than focusing on using that APS to do the damage, in PvE that is?
What is better than killing a boss in less than one spark for PvE?
Honestly, end game is just boss killing and trying to do it as fast as possible. THAT is the reason why so many people roll sins, because not many other classes can take out bosses as fast as they can.ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »When you use Throatcut, that is 12 attacks, not counting any delay between the end of the skill and going back to auto attack. It sounds like it is minimizing your damage in PvE, especially since the effect does not last long. However, a 100% interrupt (which is what I like about it) means that when a boss decides to launch an AoE or a powerful attack, it can be stopped.
This is my point. 12 attacks that, with a triple spark, can land around 20k dmg each (with a mediocre refine and rank 8 weapon). That's 240k dmg you could have done!
The casting time on throat cut makes it such an unreliable source of interrupt for any boss because usually they give little to no warning.
Also, the important bosses in the game now hardly ever have any sort of AoE which can be timed and interrupted, so going sage for a skill to interrupt when sins aren't meant to be doing that is really rather shallow.ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »As for Powerdash, as you said, it is better for PvE in sage, which is what I am focusing on. I also did not say I'm not focusing on being the highest DD possible, I said I am not going to focus on being 4-5 APS right away. A small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
As I said, the advantage that the sage skill gives is already at a disadvantage simply because of the speed boost that demon spark gives. You're trying to look at skills individually ignoring everything else. You can't do that. You have to look at the whole picture and how it all goes into synergy together.ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »And you are right, I won't ever out DPS you against a boss with all the same equipment (though I would be questioning why you have Barrier Thorn instead of R8 on demon). However, half of my damage is pretty much already done against most bosses with just one sage Rib Strike.
Sage Rib Strike is a weaker version of an archer's sharp tooth arrow. Please don't even get me started on how useless that is for PvE now since more interval came along and people finish bosses in less than 1 spark.... Weapon choice is irrelevant since we're discussing demon vs sage, not r8 daggers vs nirvana ones.ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »As for the reason for going sage, it is not because I want to "use my skills." It is because I like the skills better for the way I play my Assassin. I don't play the same way as every other Assassin, so that means that demon is not necessarily best for me. If it is an admittance that demon is better than sage on an Assassin that you are looking for, no need, I'd agree without a doubt. It does not mean though that it is best for me, which is why I am going sage.
PvE is played the same by everybody because there is nothing interesting or difficult about it unless you were brain-dead.0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »What is better than killing a boss in less than one spark for PvE?
Honestly, end game is just boss killing and trying to do it as fast as possible. THAT is the reason why so many people roll sins, because not many other classes can take out bosses as fast as they can.
Yet here you say yourself that skills are useless for demon in PvE, so I must ask, why would you argue that any of their skills are better for PvE when they lose damage doing it? Sage at least makes sense to use skills still when you are not focusing on interval. This is my point, I am not focusing on using interval, right away at least. It does not sit well with me because I do not enjoy it. A little interval to get my Assassin up to 1.46 as it is now, or to 1.67 later, that is about as much as I will enjoy it. I'm sure I'll get more just for doing things quickly to get them out of the way, but I enjoy the PvE experience in a squad (in this case, squad meaning several different classes using a typical tank, healer, 4 DD squad, not just 5 people killing a boss playing aggro hockey while a Cleric heals). Hence, demon is not right for me.This is my point. 12 attacks that, with a triple spark, can land around 20k dmg each (with a mediocre refine and rank 8 weapon). That's 240k dmg you could have done!
The casting time on throat cut makes it such an unreliable source of interrupt for any boss because usually they give little to no warning.
Also, the important bosses in the game now hardly ever have any sort of AoE which can be timed and interrupted, so going sage for a skill to interrupt when sins aren't meant to be doing that is really rather shallow.
Some bosses don't require good warning, just good timing. However, I am not going sage "for a skill to interrupt." I like that skill, yes, but I like many of the other skills.
As for doing something an Assassin isn't meant to do, they are not meant to be going in and soloing bosses that usually require a squad to do at the high levels. They still are able to though. It works both ways.As I said, the advantage that the sage skill gives is already at a disadvantage simply because of the speed boost that demon spark gives. You're trying to look at skills individually ignoring everything else. You can't do that. You have to look at the whole picture and how it all goes into synergy together.
That is just it, I'm not looking at them individually. I looked at all of the skills, and based on how I use them currently, sage works best for me. I like the way they work because they compliment how I already play. I'm not going demon because 4-5 APS is not how I would like to play. Can I reach that with sage? Yes, will I probably focus on using it? No. If I decide to spend the money to get the gears for it, I will probably keep myself in Chill most of the time just because I don't want to go with that interval.Sage Rib Strike is a weaker version of an archer's sharp tooth arrow. Please don't even get me started on how useless that is for PvE now since more interval came along and people finish bosses in less than 1 spark.... Weapon choice is irrelevant since we're discussing demon vs sage, not r8 daggers vs nirvana ones.
Of course I'm not going to even try to compare it to Sharp Tooth. My point was that if you are trying to discuss a matter of damage, it is no worry. Squads finishing a boss in one spark only proves my point that the damage difference between 4 APS sage and 4 APS demon is irrelevant at this point unless you go into talking about doing instances solo. In this case, does it really matter? No one but me would be affected by it.PvE is played the same by everybody because there is nothing interesting or difficult about it unless you were brain-dead.
No, there isn't, but I'd rather enjoy what little challenge is provided rather than farm endlessly and not enjoy it. I'm not looking to play this game much longer anyways after another MMO I am waiting for comes out. At the very least, I can enjoy it for what I can. If that means that I'll have less damage than all the other Assassins, oh well. I will go sage because it will allow me to enjoy the game. The skills are what will allow me to enjoy that rather than mindlessly auto attack away until something is dead and move along.0 -
1. Go demon 'sin;
2. Farm rank8/9 using your high attack speed;
3. Refine to +10/12;
4. Switch culti to sage;
5. ??????
6. PROFFIT.
b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Bodyguard for Secret Passage at your service, now accepting daily installments of just 2.5m for your leisure.0 -
ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »Yet here you say yourself that skills are useless for demon in PvE, so I must ask, why would you argue that any of their skills are better for PvE when they lose damage doing it? Sage at least makes sense to use skills still when you are not focusing on interval. This is my point, I am not focusing on using interval, right away at least. It does not sit well with me because I do not enjoy it. A little interval to get my Assassin up to 1.46 as it is now, or to 1.67 later, that is about as much as I will enjoy it. I'm sure I'll get more just for doing things quickly to get them out of the way, but I enjoy the PvE experience in a squad (in this case, squad meaning several different classes using a typical tank, healer, 4 DD squad, not just 5 people killing a boss playing aggro hockey while a Cleric heals). Hence, demon is not right for me.
Some bosses don't require good warning, just good timing. However, I am not going sage "for a skill to interrupt." I like that skill, yes, but I like many of the other skills.
As for doing something an Assassin isn't meant to do, they are not meant to be going in and soloing bosses that usually require a squad to do at the high levels. They still are able to though. It works both ways.
That is just it, I'm not looking at them individually. I looked at all of the skills, and based on how I use them currently, sage works best for me. I like the way they work because they compliment how I already play. I'm not going demon because 4-5 APS is not how I would like to play. Can I reach that with sage? Yes, will I probably focus on using it? No. If I decide to spend the money to get the gears for it, I will probably keep myself in Chill most of the time just because I don't want to go with that interval.
Of course I'm not going to even try to compare it to Sharp Tooth. My point was that if you are trying to discuss a matter of damage, it is no worry. Squads finishing a boss in one spark only proves my point that the damage difference between 4 APS sage and 4 APS demon is irrelevant at this point unless you go into talking about doing instances solo. In this case, does it really matter? No one but me would be affected by it.
No, there isn't, but I'd rather enjoy what little challenge is provided rather than farm endlessly and not enjoy it. I'm not looking to play this game much longer anyways after another MMO I am waiting for comes out. At the very least, I can enjoy it for what I can. If that means that I'll have less damage than all the other Assassins, oh well. I will go sage because it will allow me to enjoy the game. The skills are what will allow me to enjoy that rather than mindlessly auto attack away until something is dead and move along.
notice how i went into detail about TW and you completely dismissed it?
it's because i discussed skills individually.
i didn't do the same for pve, though, because pve is mindless and requires no skill.
you seem to think that the only reason sins go demon is for the interval.
that's the only argument you have against it. first of all, there's nothing wrong with that. it is the best possible thing for pve and it also helps a lot in pvp when you mix it well with your other disabling skills. second, it's not true, either way. i was also considering sage when i was a lower lvl sin, but when you've played this game for as long as i have and you understand the game's mechanics, and you learn that farming and pve in this game is not about finding a nice squad, where the DDs moderate their damage, the barb tanks, and it all comes out nice and organized, then you'll realize that your idea is flawed. until then, i'm afraid there's not much i can say that will change your mind, even if i speak from experience and logic.
^^ happy gaming0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »notice how i went into detail about TW and you completely dismissed it?
it's because i discussed skills individually.
i didn't do the same for pve, though, because pve is mindless and requires no skill.
you seem to think that the only reason sins go demon is for the interval.
that's the only argument you have against it. first of all, there's nothing wrong with that. it is the best possible thing for pve and it also helps a lot in pvp when you mix it well with your other disabling skills. second, it's not true, either way. i was also considering sage when i was a lower lvl sin, but when you've played this game for as long as i have and you understand the game's mechanics, and you learn that farming and pve in this game is not about finding a nice squad, where the DDs moderate their damage, the barb tanks, and it all comes out nice and organized, then you'll realize that your idea is flawed. until then, i'm afraid there's not much i can say that will change your mind, even if i speak from experience and logic.
^^ happy gaming
My apologies, I did dismiss it, but not purposely. I'm sure I just got carried away with what I was saying, I do that often b:laugh. However, I think either I am not being clear or you are misunderstanding me. Interval is a good thing for many, and I have no problems with it personally. It just is not what I would consider to be an enjoyable way to play the game. The difference between us isn't the time we have each spent playing this game, it is what we each want out of the game. You obviously want to be able to speed through bosses like crazy to farm and there is nothing wrong with that. I enjoy the actual experience of PvE in a regular squad. I'm not going sage to farm, I'm doing it to play the game as I enjoy it, which is not to just farm like crazy, or to drop bosses like crazy. I guess we just both want something different out of this game.
So, happy gaming to you as well, good sir.0 -
ZzzZzZZzzz...If Chloe types 'good sir' one more time...ZzzZzZzz...HEY! Shrimp just massacred everyone at west again...ZzzzzZZzz...(mumbles) What a waste of GD r9 sins anyway...ZzzZzzz..Bloop..ZzzZzZzz...I
Metridium...ZzZZZzzzzz...Now +10 my gear, ****!...ZzZzZzz...What you say? Geo eats good Banana?!...ZZzzZZzZzz... 0 -
KataMyst - Archosaur wrote: »ZzzZzZZzzz...If Chloe types 'good sir' one more time...ZzzZzZzz...HEY! Shrimp just massacred everyone at west again...ZzzzzZZzz...(mumbles) What a waste of GD r9 sins anyway...ZzzZzzz..Bloop..ZzzZzZzz...I Metridium...ZzZZZzzzzz...Now +10 my gear, ****!...ZzZzZzz...What you say? Geo eats good Banana?!...ZZzzZZzZzz...
i<3katamyst and all
but leave my forums alone >:(0 -
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Dodopod - Archosaur wrote: »WHAT ABOUT DODOPOD!? b:sad b:cry b:angry
I LOVE my dodopod<30 -
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Comcast is still there, ijs.youtube.com/xArsonist18 : XCableX's TW videos
pwcalc.com/56b00d33a8c63c7d : Current BM Build for TW0
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