So... what's wrong with venos?

@Zanryu: Seems to me that you do have to get the full potential out of your veno in a 5aps squad. If you don't, you're just a fail DD running along.
At "normal" squads you actually have more freedom as a venomancer it seems even though there's more to look at and to do (like passing sparks, saving other squad members)
However, if you want to be of ANY use at all to an aps squad, you will have to DD and debuff to your full potential.

In a squad where you are the "weakest" you will have to work harder to let the strong be stronger ijs. Or better said, play to the full potential.

Frankly, it's because people are total idiots sometimes. I think people get it into their head that there's an "ideal squad" and that if they go outside of that, FC won't work. Which is just foolish. Someone on my server put together a squad of venos and one cleric and we went through FC, I think it went rather well. We definitely downed the bosses faster than any other squad I've been in. Yet I've still had people say they would -never- squad with a veno in FC simply because it doesn't fit into their "dream squad".

Chickpea - Lost City wrote: »

veryones attack gets interrupted. It can even cause a party wipe if you're running 3-3.

They should change it so that pets doesn't act like mobs once they get sealed really. They should also make all bosses in NV possible to amp, because debuffs and reflect is what a veno contributes with at the moment. Their damage is a joke, they cant use the pet, no one needs chi.

There's a method to control that running.

Vitruvio - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow, this turned into another APS thread... Anyways, after reading what this barb told me:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/unledmo.jpg/ I feel like I am done, I am going to find a game where I can play what I want without problems...

Feel your pain. I get this every day at least ONCE, no jk:

wc: LF any DD for FC 90-98
me: veno lvl95
he: Veno is not a DD

venos are a powerful toon they can do anything but heal and since most people dont like venos because of their skills well their bad, so lets start a veno guild and allow only healers and venos in lol think that will go b:chuckle

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think you should turn spark on for both builds.

well everyone is aware of the APS bonus for Demon BMs it goes without saying... just pointing out a flaw when he compared he used claws which is not native to veno version of the mastery skill.

I actually use a similar build for my veno but with quite a lot more magic and two sets of gear.

sure one can argue the BM does this and that PVE but when it comes down to it for end game content you need a good balance of all classes for the only thing left to do : TW

and if your faction ignores people for runs just because they're not some APS person then they're either not going to participate in your faction events or simply leave due to lack of funds

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

dont pull those stupid runners in Warsong
one aoe on mobs makes BB stay up, its safe, faster, more fun

It's only fun until Hex gets the BM killed by pulling sac assault and increase mag attack dinos all at the same time b:shocked

But yeah, I'm fine with not pulling individual strong mobs ... but the squad has to let the veno know that. Safer to pull and be told it's not necessary, than to bring a whole group and cause a wipe. Not like pulling is fun anyway, I like it better when other people pull with the genie, hell, I pull with the genie more than my pet anyway b:laugh

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i never liked venos

and here are 10 reasons


1.
they never use lending hand on me Cause we know you prefer to use rather your right hand...


2.
i hate pets
yaeh imma hunt down and eat your dog
ever eaten horse-sausage ?Meet my dog Frankenstein...


3.
all of their skills look **** or the same Nova has awesome skulls

4.
most veno chars are simply ugly Its cause most Venos are male (and we know they are all ugly) and you didnt seen mine yet

5.
veno rank weapons are the ugliest things ever Wiz isnt better either

6.
veno pets are ugly too QQbird flying piggy florafang bunny HexOmega...oh wait that one is ugly

7.
im traumatized from old pwi years when QQbird killed me no matter what i did Love it now even more


8.
payback for picking a class only cause its the best one (to those who had a herc and nix on day one of server start :P) No more aps squad for you

9.
???? !!!!

10.
pulling / luring
OKAY, we have a squad here,
everyone is at least rank8 and has a lot of +10 armor parts
WHY dont we just AOE?
dont pull those stupid runners in Warsong
one aoe on mobs makes BB stay up, its safe, faster, more fun Ok, then have fun in fb99 instances


BUT HERE COMES HERC AND FAILS PULLING AAAAAH RUNS BACK BREAKES BB AND I KEEP TICKING AND EVERYONE DIES, THEY COME BACK IM STILL RUNNING AND TICKING WITH MOBS THEY DIE AGAIN CAUSE THEY HAVE FAIL MDEF AND NO BUFFS AAAAAAAH It was a herc named "HexOmega" who wanted to AOE so much







number 10 is my only real reason
the reason why i dislike squadding with venos
and the reason why clerics scream at me in BH b:shutup
"HEX! Dont do that again, ever!"



i have a lot of veno friends, i like them, forgive them their class choice cause they are rocking persons





edit: should i read all those posts?Yes

b:cute hai

Have you seen how people play? I don't just mean venos, I mean people in general.

Most people have no idea how to play their class in a squad setting. Everyone knows what their minimum role in FC is and hardly ever branches out of it.

Too often do I see venos that never use helping hand, amp, etc because they would rather DD and use their sparks for triple sparking and the such.

Yes venos are awesome in squads when used correctly, but the sad fact is that most people don't use them correctly.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Have you seen how people play? I don't just mean venos, I mean people in general.

Most people have no idea how to play their class in a squad setting. Everyone knows what their minimum role in FC is and hardly ever branches out of it.

Too often do I see venos that never use helping hand, amp, etc because they would rather DD and use their sparks for triple sparking and the such.

Yes venos are awesome in squads when used correctly, but the sad fact is that most people don't use them correctly.

HellWariorB - Raging Tide wrote: »

So true.

Indeed.

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I love venos I like your amp ... I like your aoes ... I like the diversity of the class itself ...

It's just a shame people are so narrow minded and silly to think everything needs aps or it sucks.

I tend to pick the person behind the pixels for things rather than pick the pixels themselves. Guess I'm alone on that one.


Why are people discussing aps venos? *facepalm* Gunna be aps clerics next ... "I canz heal AND dd, I so pr0"

At least some ppl still like us b:kiss

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

10.
pulling / luring
OKAY, we have a squad here,
everyone is at least rank8 and has a lot of +10 armor parts
WHY dont we just AOE?

dont pull those stupid runners in Warsong
one aoe on mobs makes BB stay up, its safe, faster, more fun

BUT HERE COMES HERC AND FAILS PULLING AAAAAH RUNS BACK BREAKES BB AND I KEEP TICKING AND EVERYONE DIES, THEY COME BACK IM STILL RUNNING AND TICKING WITH MOBS THEY DIE AGAIN CAUSE THEY HAVE FAIL MDEF AND NO BUFFS AAAAAAAH

QFT
The other day I did Warsong with a Veno she (or he) kept trying to pull runners and fail, but raged at me when I AoE pulled the mobs :<
Seriously, Cleric has like 7k+ hp unbuffed, there was no need to take risk of aggroing whole pack of mobs while BB is down...but noo, the Veno just had to try too hard

Oh, and I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I hate Venos because they look better in fashion than everyone else. </3

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

...Now my Archer is 90, and my Veno is still 82. BAWWWW DERP DERP DERP...

I felt the same way about my veno until today when I got enough money to learn my first Demon skill, Demon Venomous Scarab and I went out to west arch and two-shotted a sin at my level by chaining Demon Venomous -> Lucky. Suddenly I don't feel like I'm a sh.itty PvE only class. Also, there's a venomancer by the name of "Lumpejudd" on my server whose h4x OP-ness makes me feel like at endgame I'll be able to kill other classes. So I've pressed on. Basically as a veno you will enjoy PvE a whole lot. BUT you will be continually frustrated by what seems to be a lack of control skills for PK. However, it would seem that as a venomancer, your real role in PK is to go about in a team. Which would probably make TW more of a focus for you as a PvPer. I'm yet to get good gear and test out an open PKer veno, but my main goal is to PK people, so definitely I'll be experimenting soon.

And HALF the problem is the class and the skills.

I totally agree. If you have no pheonix, you have no useful stun. Lucky is not enough, and the only other "immobilizing" move you get is Demon Frost Scarab which requires one spark. You get no defensive PK self buffs, the only defensive skills you have are: Bramble Hood (requires two sparks, but at least you can use it however often you like since it doesn't have a retar.dedly long cooldown), and Feral Concentration (but it requires one spark, and guess what? You can only use it once every five minutes).

I've begin to think that even if they only reduced the cooldown on Feral Concentration and did nothing else for us, venos would suddenly become SO much more fun to play. Even making it (and demon Summer Sprint) a 30 second cooldown would mean more survivability. Pop it up every 30 sec, kill someone, then kite, then go back 30 sec later...

And about Lending Hand... It's shocking to think this, but there ARE veno skills that require chi. BAWWWWW HUUURRRR DURRRRRR HEERRRRRP

As a veno in a squad, your sparks are not your own, get used to it. they belong to the cleric, BM and barb.

>_> If Veno and Barb become completely unplayed, I won't be shocked. You people and your boxes, with neat little compartments for what everything should do and be...

Veno will not, barb already is.

Hi:

This is my own response to all of the stuff I'm hearing, both in reply to the particular post I quoted and to the general sentiments I saw expressed here.

I'm a lvl90 veno, and I've FCd to lvl90 (from lvl80) in about 17 days (I've never bought heads). I've never had problems where I had an Fc squad telling me that they don't take venos, or anything like that. I cannot comment on that. Maybe on Harshlands the venos just aren't as fail, or maybe on other servers they're more fail than usual.

I have a friends list FULL of barbs and clerics who would FC with me readily if they're not busy. I once had one of my barb friends tell me one day that he spent a long time trying to fill one of the spots in his squad with a DD, and he was looking for a veno specifically but couldn't find one, and when I PMd him to start a squad he expressed unhappiness that he couldn't find a veno for his current FC. I'm pretty sure I've run with him enough times that his impression of venos in FC squads has at least something to do with my own performance.

When I am in FC, I do not bother do DD if there is a support role which needs filling. For example, most venos will try to DD on Frost Bishops in the small clusters with the Sirens. What I do is I send in my Herc with pounce, and I amp the bishop in time with the BM's sprint to AOE stun. This way the bishop will definitely get stunned by either the BM or the pet, and it will die quickly due to my amp.

I use amp like it's a spam move. I amp Harpies, I amp Shades, I amp Bishops on the bishop boss, I debuff everything that moves, I watch out for the cleric to see if anything is attacking him/her and I try to take aggro asap. I use Ironwood as smartly as I can. I prefer not to use it, but for high HP mobs (Bishop, Shade, Harpy), I will debuff them for the BM/sin who is trying to kill it. I use Blazing Scarab as much as I can to build chi, and at the very least, whenever the cleric puts up BB/RB he knows he is getting a spark.

I discovered only yesterday that one of the clerics I run with regularly uses chi pots when his chi is lacking...so I made extra note of that since I didn't know that clerics had to spend that much money. I learn. When we're doing bosses, I do not pass chi to the Barb; I pass it to the BM. The BM needs chi for DG, and the sin gets 3-spark too fast, so giving chi to the BM speeds up the rate at which he can DG for the sin to 3 spark.

And of course, I always amp in time with the BM's DG. In other words, in squads, I am a pure support veno. And I apparently give other people a good impression of venos. Ever since I got my 79 skills two days ago, I also use the AOE Myriad Ranbow whenever I can, but it also requires 800 MP, so I give preference to amping single high-priority targets (Bishop, Harpy, etc). When I die on the bishop boss, my squad FEELS it. The bishops die slower. And while this is probably not ethically a good thing, I do it anyway:

When the cleric rezzes me, I say something like: "Kay, finally I can amp these bishops". And I make sure to debuff them, and the squad FEELS my presence.

Play your class right ^_^. And no, a veno is NOT a DD when working in a squad. A veno is support for the cleric/BM/DDs. And NO, a veno is NOT a DD in team PvP either. Your role in team PvP is to stay back in the shadows and just debuff. Kill if you see a way to do it without leaving priority targets un-handled, but you're MUCH more useful distracting enemies with your PK pet, and debuffing, then kiting to keep them more distracted while another member of your team dispatches the target.

Learn your class. Did you know a veno can pop sins out of stealth (no channeling time attached!) using fox form Myriad Rainbow (OMG, and every 20 seconds too at that!)? Learn your class. Do you still you Venomous Scarab at heads? It takes 1.5 sec to channel and 0.8 to cast, which is more than 2 seconds before you can hit a head...which someone else is already probably going to hit before you do. Take a bow along to FC for heads. Venomous will allow you to hit one head at most on each set. With a bow I can hit 2. I have personally probably only used Parasitic Nova about twice in all my time FCing.

Another note is that I'm extremely squishy and I die very often on runs...yet my regulars are always happy to take me again...and again and again and again. You people on other servers are doing something wrong, definitely.