"Venos aren't needed"

Nyuchama - Archosaur · April 2011

Please help with this... People keep saying that to me when I try to squad with others.... What do I do?

No one wants me to tag along, no one wants my help....
Yesterday I had to tank Krixxix by myself (without my tank pet, krixxix can two shot it before I have chance to heal) with the help of my lvl 33 mystic friend. It was hard, I died twice before I succeeded. That made me sad that no one was willing to help. Then I can heal mystic's pets but apparently that's not good enough for everyone. I don't even KNOW how I am going to do the dungeons b:surrender I am behind on spiritual cultivation because people refuse to help me... I admit all I can do is bramble and keep myself (and my tank pet) alive...
EDIT: The only reason I was even ABLE to tank Krixxix was because he takes forever to heal, and I had to be revived then I tried getting away to recover but he killed again, then I finally killed... Anyone know if I will get better recover skills? So far I have been having good luck with Soul Transfusion/Second Wind mix. but it doesn't help at all when I die. and Metabollic Boost + Nature's Grace takes forever to cool down...

Rubblemancer - Sanctuary · April 2011

Find yourself a good guild. We have several venos in my guild, we usually keep everyone up with cultivation and BH's. Veno's are a good class that can do great things, I'm sorry you're having a rough patch.

Sevas - Heavens Tear · April 2011

I heard recently the playing field got leveled a bit in our favor. Mystics used to be able to summon multiple pets, but now can only summon one at a time like us. (Can someone verify?) You can use your pets as an asset. I don't have my mystic leveled up, so I can't say how good their pets are, but fight for your pets. Talk about what pet you have, how good it is, what other pets you have, and stuff like that.

Fight with your skills. Argue for Ironwood, Bramble, Amp (very good one bosses), and whatever suits your fancy. Pets are a good back up tank and make excellent DDs.

Jeremied - Sanctuary · April 2011

Those people you've been encountering are ignorant to what venos can really do. Venos were stars in every squad before genies came out and made everyone with zeal able to lure.

Later on, venos are great for giving other squaddies extra sparks (clerics love that

), and amping damage so that other DD's kill faster. Bramble on the tank helps keep aggro on him sometimes, and your pets do full damage to bosses just like mystics pets. Train yourself up a starter scorpion (if you don't have one already), and when you do get in a squad that already has a tank, use your scorpion to help kill faster.

Maybe Sanctuary is just more veno friendly

I'd always save a place in my squad for one, since I really don't care about 5aps people and their ignorance to the other classes XD

Nyuchama - Archosaur · April 2011

Yeah, I've been wanting the transfer chi one...
and I am in a guild but they can't help at all (leader is level 18, original leader was 21) I don't like the guild at all anymore, but I don't want to leave since I helped create it and am friends with the leader

I don't know how I cant even explain to him how useless the guild is to me...
and I have Great Twinheaded Canus, after the level 40 series of quests my sharptooth went FAR behind me, so I decided to get new pet. No one will help with level 60 tideborn raitor either, and she could probably oneshot me.
I'd hate to have to tank again... next time I try though maybe I will be better with my new found recover techniques.
I've tried starting over on a mystic and a cleric, but
1. I don't want to do ALL the arch quests again
2. Cleric gets boring after a while for me... until I can actually level mine up to a good point

I should of spent all my time with Nyu on dreamweaver, my level 71 psy friend I know IRL is on there.... but a certain someone (who is also responsible for influencing me to try HA veno and leave New_Age) told me to go to Arch...

(Also, I finally got my veno's stats back in place, but the dex really helps when it deals 2k since my magic is still below normal for lvl 45 arcane veno)

So sorry for this long post but these are my ever growing concerns =(

Sevas - Heavens Tear · April 2011

Nyuchama - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah, I've been wanting the transfer chi one...
and I am in a guild but they can't help at all (leader is level 18, original leader was 21) I don't like the guild at all anymore, but I don't want to leave since I helped create it and am friends with the leader I don't know how I cant even explain to him how useless the guild is to me...
and I have Great Twinheaded Canus, after the level 40 series of quests my sharptooth went FAR behind me, so I decided to get new pet. No one will help with level 60 tideborn raitor either, and she could probably oneshot me.
I'd hate to have to tank again... next time I try though maybe I will be better with my new found recover techniques.
I've tried starting over on a mystic and a cleric, but
1. I don't want to do ALL the arch quests again
2. Cleric gets boring after a while for me... until I can actually level mine up to a good point

I should of spent all my time with Nyu on dreamweaver, my level 71 psy friend I know IRL is on there.... but a certain someone (who is also responsible for influencing me to try HA veno and leave New_Age) told me to go to Arch...

(Also, I finally got my veno's stats back in place, but the dex really helps when it deals 2k since my magic is still below normal for lvl 45 arcane veno)

So sorry for this long post but these are my ever growing concerns =(

You're just going to have to suck it up and tell him you need to find a place where you can get help. You can always come back to the faction once you feel you can handle things pretty well on your own. My cleric holds leadership in the first faction I ever really got attached to and one day I will be able to play enough to recruit people to pick it up again.

As to you pet, that's always going to be a problem. Before the cash shop pets were a big thing I liked having some of the rare spawn pets. The Kowlin is a pretty good one at L60 that you might like. If you think you might try or like to level up a rare the puppy is L40 (not too far behind you), the bear cub (shaodu) is L20 and the snow hare is L20. There are pros and cons to each of them but I won't get into them. There are other threads for that. I used the snow hare for the longest time, almost until I was L70. It's a decent tanking pet all-around. The cub is supposed to be the "best" tank, HP-wise, of the rares. I don't know how it holds up against the new pets in the TB and EG areas. The puppy is pretty decent, it has a nice debuff on it (Frighten/Threaten). I still very much love my kowlin. He's like a (DD) BM, his HP is alright, his damage is good, and his defenses are about average. He's quick though. He comes with Bash, L4 Flesh Ream, and two debuffs.

Any of the pets that have ever been listed as a "good" pet (on any thread) should be able to tank just about anything you need. You could also look into nabbing some channelling gear and that might help allay some of your worries.

Aniella - Harshlands · May 2011

Having prob w get squad- don't get future in game? LOL

things u can do, 2 get a better life..and feel like spend ur hrs on somthing better!

a) if u love games but don't wanna work years 2 be good ..play privat servers !
b) Quite the game , go out w ppl.
c) Keep playing but, don't waste hr on waithing for squad- u waste away likw 6hr..just by NOTHING! (keep that in mind

.
d) if u think this is a troll-text u may have 2 read it 1 more time

ps. lol im bored and just wated 2 write a personalty text..

if u hate it..don't reply...(ignore it)

i stoped play cuz..this is kida suxy game now..unless u like waste rl money!
wasted 3,5 years on this ****

u guys may understad what i mean w u also do the same!

_Morigan_ - Harshlands · May 2011

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

Those people you've been encountering are ignorant to what venos can really do. Venos were stars in every squad before genies came out and made everyone with zeal able to lure.

Later on, venos are great for giving other squaddies extra sparks (clerics love that ), and amping damage so that other DD's kill faster. Bramble on the tank helps keep aggro on him sometimes, and your pets do full damage to bosses just like mystics pets. Train yourself up a starter scorpion (if you don't have one already), and when you do get in a squad that already has a tank, use your scorpion to help kill faster.

Maybe Sanctuary is just more veno friendly I'd always save a place in my squad for one, since I really don't care about 5aps people and their ignorance to the other classes XD

You are right, there s a lot of ignorant people.

But for me it feels like its getting better (easyier) to get a squad for venos. I meet more and more ppl who tell they are pleased when they get a veno in squad.

Anyway if i feel ignored in guild and not helped i leave. There are lots of guilds and a few of em sue will welcome a good veno warm.

Azura - Lost City · May 2011

...I feel bad for you, if I were in ur sever I would help you, specially cause I am bored atmb:shutup

SashaGray - Heavens Tear · May 2011

archo is a dead server, make a character on a more active server, more people means more people likely to help

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »

Having prob w get squad- don't get future in game? LOL

things u can do, 2 get a better life..and feel like spend ur hrs on somthing better!

a) if u love games but don't wanna work years 2 be good ..play privat servers !
b) Quite the game , go out w ppl.
c) Keep playing but, don't waste hr on waithing for squad- u waste away likw 6hr..just by NOTHING! (keep that in mind .
d) if u think this is a troll-text u may have 2 read it 1 more time

ps. lol im bored and just wated 2 write a personalty text.. if u hate it..don't reply...(ignore it)

i stoped play cuz..this is kida suxy game now..unless u like waste rl money!
wasted 3,5 years on this **** u guys may understad what i mean w u also do the same!

Pls OP , ignore this , pls

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · May 2011

Well, let's see...

I semi-retired my Veno at 82. I do nothing on that character except make gear now. However, I still get asked to do TT2-2 every now and then simply because of Ape (I suspect less now because I do it with an R9 Archer and my archer is now 89).

Anyway, Venos are very useful, and anyone who thinks they aren't is kidding their self.

Venos can do some things that no other single class can do, and it requires fox form.

1) You can Purge positive buffs off bosses
2) You can curse bosses with Amplify Damage, making 5.0's kill things 20% faster
3) You can curse bosses with a max HP reduction Debuff
4) You can curse bosses to stop regenerating HP during part of the fight

The first 3 are the most useful for squadding when higher level. Having your Purge skill and Amplify Damage skills maxed as early as possible is important. Have your spark transfer as soon as you can too. This will make you useful in squads. The 4'th skill will be most useful in FCC on long boss fights when it takes a long time to kill a boss regardless, mostly due to there not being a 5.0 in your squad.

I'd also suggest you roll on another server, since Archo is a bunch of nubs. I think ANY server is better than Archo, seriously.

Edit: I forgot armor breaks, which comes from Ironwood scarab and pet skills... It makes physical DD do more damage per hit.

tweakz · May 2011

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well, let's see...

I semi-retired my Veno at 82. I do nothing on that character except make gear now. However, I still get asked to do TT2-2 every now and then simply because of Ape (I suspect less now because I do it with an R9 Archer and my archer is now 89).

Anyway, Venos are very useful, and anyone who thinks they aren't is kidding their self.

Venos can do some things that no other single class can do, and it requires fox form.

1) You can Purge positive buffs off bosses
2) You can curse bosses with Amplify Damage, making 5.0's kill things 20% faster
3) You can curse bosses with a max HP reduction Debuff
4) You can curse bosses to stop regenerating HP during part of the fight

The first 3 are the most useful for squadding when higher level. Having your Purge skill and Amplify Damage skills maxed as early as possible is important. Have your spark transfer as soon as you can too. This will make you useful in squads. The 4'th skill will be most useful in FCC on long boss fights when it takes a long time to kill a boss regardless, mostly due to there not being a 5.0 in your squad.

I'd also suggest you roll on another server, since Archo is a bunch of nubs. I think ANY server is better than Archo, seriously.

Edit: I forgot armor breaks, which comes from Ironwood scarab and pet skills... It makes physical DD do more damage per hit.

1) Rarely worth the time to purge
2) Sin's and BMs can amp as well, other classes have dmg boosting buffs.
3) Sin's and Archers have %HP reduction also
4) Can you name a boss that recovers enough HP while fighting to make it worth it?

Breaks are short lived/ often overwritten / not reliable.

Venos aren't too much waste of squad space, but are better off mostly going solo.

Fistol - Raging Tide · May 2011

tweakz wrote: »

1) Rarely worth the time to purge
2) Sin's and BMs can amp as well, other classes have dmg boosting buffs.
3) Sin's and Archers have %HP reduction also
4) Can you name a boss that recovers enough HP while fighting to make it worth it?

Breaks are short lived/ often overwritten / not reliable.

Venos aren't too much waste of squad space, but are better off mostly going solo.

1.) a purge helps lots in nirvana against 2nd boss
2.) amp stacks with other skills bm and sin throw out.
3.) its a combine effect.
4.) Phoenix from FC.

Solo is better if the market isnt already flooded with TT mat.

tweakz · May 2011

Fistol - Raging Tide wrote: »

1.) a purge helps lots in nirvana against 2nd boss
2.) amp stacks with other skills bm and sin throw out.
3.) its a combine effect.
4.) Phoenix from FC.

Solo is better if the market isnt already flooded with TT mat.

If there's enough DD, purge isn't any help in Nirvana.

Other atk buffs also stack with other skills such as Frost Blade. -It doesn't make Wiz's desirable.

Any stats on the Phoenix? -Highly doubt it's worth bringing a veno over a 3+aps just for that to an FF.

Who said anything about TT? The money making venos that I know of don't step foot in there unless it's for BH.

TattooAngel - Archosaur · May 2011

I know what you mean. Archosaur server is a little rough on venos in general. I get downshotted all the time by people outside my faction because they don't feel they need venos anymore, think mystics are better, don't like out pets because they constantly get in the way, and the list goes on.

However, when there is a problem, like when someone needs a veno to help lur a boss or a mob because their Zeal can't get to it then they start crying for help.

I'm greatful for my faction for allowing me to level and stick with them, and I'm very helpful when they do need help. I think finding a better faction will be your best bet if you want to continue as a veno. Once you level up you wouldn't have as many people downshotting you. Venos can become very useful in the higher levels.

Fistol - Raging Tide · May 2011

tweakz wrote: »

If there's enough DD, purge isn't any help in Nirvana.

Other atk buffs also stack with other skills such as Frost Blade. -It doesn't make Wiz's desirable.

Any stats on the Phoenix? -Highly doubt it's worth bringing a veno over a 3+aps just for that to an FF.

Who said anything about TT? The money making venos that I know of don't step foot in there unless it's for BH.

you are totally right about most of the stuff.

not that a veno is going to hurt the whole team.

Foxchu - Archosaur · May 2011

I'm sorry to hear that hun... i suggest building friends or getting a good helpful faction that will be there to support you when you need a squad. and if people tell you venos are useless be up front and tell them other wise. Venos makes everyone's job easier, from amping to sending sparks to people, to bramble guard. venos are damage multipliers and help the squad do their job faster. amp + lvl10 ironwood gives melee users 50% more attack (and can stack with BM, sin, and seeker debuffs for even more lowered defenses). unless a mystic has a charm or a TON of pots they will be sitting on the sidelines in the middle of boss fights cause of the high mana cost of their skills. venos can just keep pounding away at bosses till they are dead. and i've tanked my own bh59, holding aggro from bms to archers (had trouble with a few good sins and psys). try pming me on archo when ever you get on (i'm on usually in my free time). archo can be mean to venos but if you truly love being one then stick with it and make people see how great venos are. my goal has always been to show people how strong and usefull venos are. well i hoped this helped and if you continue to have problems PM me b:cute i have nothing against helping a fellow veno out.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver · May 2011

i got told today twice that Veno is not a DD, yesterday it was one time tho...nuff said?

Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver · May 2011

I don't know much about endgame except that a party full of 5aps doesn't need even a cleric, not mentioning a veno b:laugh

I don't have problems finding BHs or FCs because I'm a veno - If I do it's because of me not being neither cleric or barb b:chuckle

For me veno is not exactly DD, although it can act like that. Dang, foxform HA veno may even become an emergency tank should a real one die/dc/whatever.
Veno is jack of many /almost all/ trades, but master of none (==playable also solo) mainly party-supporting class with it's debuffs, buff, spark passing, pet work etc.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver · May 2011

world chat: LF DD any class, FC lvl90-98
me: veno lvl95
"Veno is not a DD"

And this twice today and yesterday once.

I get still agro of seekers vortex or a barb or BM 3 levels above me...yet i m not considered as DD. Well IF i m not a DD with my NOVA and debuffs, then what am i then? a walking pet?

Desdi - Sanctuary · May 2011

Yeah. I've seen than happen and it is annoying.

BabaORiley - Dreamweaver · May 2011

At around level 20 I joined a small guild with about 25 members, mostly all under level 40. It was a positive experience, but I started to notice that the group was not growing and fewer and fewer members seemed to be online to the point that it was no better than being independent. I was reluctant, but eventually I left the faction hoping to find a larger one eventually. b:bye

So I was without a guild and trying to do my cultivation quests bosses via pick up teams. This actually worked better than I thought. Hang out near the boss locations during peak times, and eventually others show up in ones or twos, and sometimes in squads. Spam local chat with squad requests "LFS / name-of-boss" etc. You will get a few rejections or even get ignored sometimes, but usually others who show up there are just like you, they are glad to find someone to squad with to help take down the bosses. b:beg

I was in just such a pick up squad about to do Kirxxix but we lacked a Barb to tank. They asked me to send in my pet as Tank. It worked out, we got Kirxxix, and a squad-mate invited me to join his level 3 faction, which I eventually did. b:laugh

Don't stress about being low level, every one at those levels is limited. b:pleased

I don't know much about your server, but I can tell you Dreamweaver is well populated.

Marengo - Lost City · May 2011

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »

world chat: LF DD any class, FC lvl90-98
me: veno lvl95
"Veno is not a DD"

And this twice today and yesterday once.

lol? Are they mad? b:laugh There are actually 3 types of classes in short: healer, tanker and dd. At least i've never seen something like "LF debuffer for FC" xD They just didnt want veno or forgot to add magic word "aps".

lorannabanana · May 2011

To the OP...

I love being a Veno oh so very much. I've never had anyone be as rude as to tell me I'm not needed but like most DD's we are not "needed" so much as "can make a very big difference when we are efficient". When we are efficient we are appreciated, this goes for any class.

Perhaps when you're higher level you will have more appreciation for your class. I'm only lvl 75 and I found (Certainly more recently) me on my own (With my lovely Shadou

) can be a bloody great benefit for helping lower level players with bosses or fb's and such. When people need help in my Newish guild; generally speaking we'd have to find a tank and a healer to get stuff done but now I'm a little bit tough I can usually jump on the calls for help without needing to wait for any other high leveled players to back me up. It goes without saying that this is not true for every situation of course.

Another thing that tickles my fancy with Veno (Albeit some of these occasions were likely down to fluke), is the odd time when you get a squad that isn't terribly coordinated and for whatever reason the tank is getting overwhelmed or possibly defeated. Being a veno means you can catch and sufficiently tank any mobs with your pet that might be a danger to the squad tank and if somehow the tank does go down you could quite possibly be the one in the squad who can keep mobs/bosses diverted at least long enough for the tank to get revived and everyone from dying. - Unless death for all is inevitable. :P

Finally for my wall of text for you. If I were you I would leave that guild. If your friends there are your friends they will still be your friends when you leave and you can always go back if you want to. If they are no longer your friends when you leave - you will find better friends. Perfect world is so much better to play when you've got an active guild that is motivated to help each other out and by the sounds of it you're probably missing out with that.

Sorry for the wall of text. I just hope to drum it into you that anyone who makes you feel unnecessary because of your class is a fudging idiot. :P

XxXvixonXxX - Heavens Tear · May 2011

My 2 cents

Venos are and still needed for several things :-

1/ AMP - used mainly on bosses very useful

2/ PURGE - get rid of some of them annoying buffs bosses put on make things go faster

3/ LENDING HAND - pass sparks to those that need most like clerics when they put up BB so if it falls they can put it back up fast

4/ HERC- back up temp tank incase main one accidently dies herc can sometimes hold big bosses for a small time to give cleric chance to rez and rebuff tank

point 4 is aimed at the fortunate venos that own hercs

thus being said a mystic can not replace a veno in what the venos is best at

The_love - Raging Tide · May 2011

the people that say venos arent needed have gone for pure idiot build
people prefer sage veno for nirvana over 5 aps bm/sin and its a fact me and my friends always go 2 5.00 bms, me, 3 5.00 sins
also for TT3x steele i mean sure rank 9 archer can purge more then archer with lunar/nirvana bow but its nowhere near as acurate as the veno purge, when dark colloset closes cleric's BB they need sparks to reset BB, for world bosses venos are as good as archers or even better if they have nix maxed lvl oh and there is the tw part cata barbs NEED to be purged to be killed since lately cata barbs are mostly r9 ones

tweakz · May 2011

The_love - Raging Tide wrote: »

the people that say venos arent needed have gone for pure idiot build

=o

also for TT3x steele i mean sure rank 9 archer can purge more then archer with lunar/nirvana bow but its nowhere near as acurate as the veno purge

Nothing to do with "need".

when dark colloset closes cleric's BB they need sparks to reset BB

No need: Chi Syphon or Cloud Eruption, or alternating clerics.

for world bosses venos are as good as archers or even better if they have nix maxed lvl

Nothing to do with "need", and arguable.

oh and there is the tw part cata barbs NEED to be purged to be killed since lately cata barbs are mostly r9 ones

Weren't you just stating that archers could purge also?

Title of the thread: "Venos aren't needed" -no one is proving otherwise.

The_love - Raging Tide · May 2011

ofc archers purge but how many rank 9 archers are out there?
lunar and nirvana purge is useless cause it like never purges
no go to your emo corner and cut urselfb:bye

The_love - Raging Tide · May 2011

oh and 1 last thing if venos arent needed then why am i getting spam pms from people saying they need my help?
anyway im done wasting my time on you random noob that sleeps on the forum

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · May 2011

The_love - Raging Tide wrote: »

ofc archers purge but how many rank 9 archers are out there?
lunar and nirvana purge is useless cause it like never purges
no go to your emo corner and cut urselfb:bye

The_love - Raging Tide wrote: »

oh and 1 last thing if venos arent needed then why am i getting spam pms from people saying they need my help?
anyway im done wasting my time on you random noob that sleeps on the forum

lol. That's an awful lot of hostility. tweakz is a troll and an ***, but I've seen him play and even run with him a couple of times and I do have to say he's one of the better venos out there.

The point still stands though: venos aren't "needed" in the strictest sense of the word. No class is, for that matter. You can complete every single/boss/w.e in game without having class 'x'.

This doesn't negate the usefulness of a veno, which like other classes, varies depending on the person on the other side of the monitor.

"Venos aren't needed"

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