Enlightening Zav

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Bull****. You're telling me you can sustain 20 attacks from GXs/G15 warfogs, and only get zerked once? Anyone who has the slightest experience in PvP knows it's way above 5%.

this is RT, the land of fist BMs. the only axe user left is aasimar and he has r9

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

And anyone who used GVs can tell you it cannot be anywhere near 30%.

If it was 30%, I would be healing 5% of my HP every second and we can assume that the proc would be completely permanent.

Admittedly, from my experience, if I we were to ignore the PW-MY source code, I'd estimate that SS and Revenge are around 15%. I'm pretty confident SS is not 5% though.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have a bow with comprehend and can test that since you claim it is 30%.. the same as zerk.

I did not make up the numbers, the source code claims it's 30%, but my if it were my guess it'd be about 15%. The source code or whatever the refine rate of +1 on the wiki also claims 50%, but if it were my guess it'd be 33%. I mean, I could also test the +1 rate with 1000 mirages and come up with a number like 37.8%, but then again, I wouldn't edit the wiki knowing there's always the possibility of other lurking variables involved.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have GOF axes, and they proc maybe 1 out of 4 times in PvP. Maybe the rate is altered for DPH skills, and DPS is adjusted for normal attacks. I wouldn't know for sure if there's any possible lurking variables involved; I just wanted to point out that from my experience, I would have guessed Zerk and Revenge to be about 15% with a +/- 5%, all source codes aside. Also mirages at +1 being 33%, but meh, not going to debate this.

its a legit point you bring up, we are all talking about personal experience. variable factors never occurred to me, but it seems a higher proc rate in PVP is not only possible, but plausible as well

Scenario is amortized over 10,000 attacks.
Assuming Sacrifical Strike will affect 30% of the attacks (other % values are also computed below).
Assuming Revenge will affect 86.12% of the attacks.

In the Buddha Peace case, over 10,000 attacks, 3000 (30%) of them will be under the influence of Sacrificial Strike, and 7000 are normal.
Of those 3000 SS attacks, 33% of them are Crit. That's 990 attacks under Crit, and 2010 not under crit.
Of those 7000 normal attacks, 33% of them are Crit. That's 2310 attacks under Crit, and 4690 not under crit.

Avg Damage is 9956 (no crit, no SS)
Damage from SS and non-Crit = 2010 * Avg Dam * 2
Damage from SS and Crit = 990 * Avg Dam * 4
Damage from Normal and non-Crit = 4690 * Avg Dam
Damage from Normal and Crit = 2310 * Avg Dam * 2

(Note that the damage is multiplied by 4 for Sacrificial Strike and Crit)

(2010 * 9956 * 2) + (990 * 9956 * 4) + (4690 * 9956) + (2310 * 9956 * 2)
Total Damage for 10,000 attacks: 172,139,240

Note that this number can be computed in a much more quicker fashion by doing this:

Avg Damage * (1.33 from crit) * (1.30 from SS) * (10,000 attacks)
9956 * 1.33 * 1.30 * 10,000 = 172,139,240

So if we don't factor in crit, but still factor in Sacrificial Strike, 10,000 attacks will deal 9956 * 1.30 * 10,000 = 129,428,000 damage. That is, all we are doing is removing the 1.33 multiplier that has to do with crit.

Because there is some arguments about the exact proc rate of Sacrificial Strike, here is the 10,000-attack damage (with crit!) for other values:
9956 * 1.33 * 1.30 * 10,000 = 172,139,240
9956 * 1.33 * 1.25 * 10,000 = 165,518,500
9956 * 1.33 * 1.15 * 10,000 = 152,277,020
9956 * 1.33 * 1.10 * 10,000 = 145,656,280
9956 * 1.33 * 1.05 * 10,000 = 139,035,540


In the Gorenox Vanity case, over 10,000 attacks, 8612 (86.12%) of them will be under the influence of Revenge, and 1388 are normal.
Of those 8612 Revenge Attacks, 33% of them are Crit. That's 2842 (rounded) attacks under Crit, and 5770 not under crit.
Of thsoe 1388 normal attacks, 33% of them are Crit. That's 458 (rounded) attacks under Crit, and 930 are not under crit.

Avg Normal Damage is 10,342 (no crit)
Avg Revenge Damage is 10,973 (no crit, Asterelle's numbers)
Damage from Revenge and non-Crit = 5770 * 10,973
Damage from Revenge and Crit = 2842 * 10,973 * 2
Damage from Normal and non-Crit = 930 * 10,342
Damage from Normal and Crit = 458 * 10,342 * 2

(5770 * 10,973) + (2842 * 10,973 * 2) + (930 * 10,342) + (458 * 10,342 * 2)
Total Damage for 10,000 attacks: 144,776,074 (this has some rounding errors)

Note that this number can be computed in a much more quicker fashion by doing this:

(Normal Damage * (1-0.8612) + Revenge Damage * (0.8612)) * (1.33 from crit) * (10,000 attacks)
(10342 * (1-0.8612) + 10973 * (0.8612)) * 1.33 * 10,000 = 144,776,048.76 (no rounding errors)

So if we don't factor in crit, but still factor in Revenge, 10,000 attacks will deal (10342 * (1-0.8612) + 10973 * (0.8612)) * 10,000 = 108,854,172 damage. That is, all we are doing is removing the 1.33 multiplier that has to do with crit.


Conclusions:

- If Sacrifical Strike procs 10% of the time or more, then Buddha Peace does more damage than Gorenox Vanity.
- Since the crit rate is the same for both builds, you DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT CRIT when calculating damages. The values are both affected by the exact same multiplier. XxZavxX is wrong about this.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I tested a comprehend bow with 500 arrows just now. There were 17 procs. With that data I can say with 99% confidence that the true proc rate is between 1.31% and 5.49%.

Here is what Dan's list claims.



A 30% proc rate is total nonsense... 48 standard deviations away from reality. I know it is a fantasy game but that is just ridiculous. Consider that list to be proven false.

Now let's test SS, revenge, and mirages while we're at it. Cause this fantasy game is serious business. :O

(P.S. that list was prof's http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10817872&postcount=23)

Ambition - Raging Tide wrote: »

Note:

GV = Godless Valley which is PW-MY for Rebirth (gamma,delta,etc.)
b:cry

thats why i was asking about lunar, i knew GV was BR of sorts, just didnt know the translation

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Go back to malaysia troll!

PW-MY can suck MY-PWenis >:O

b:sad you said I could

Bellefleurs - Raging Tide wrote: »

smart fist archers

oxymoron

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

oxymoron

that's not nice....

Your chances always remain the same. With a 30% chance to zerk on each hit there is always a 70% chance not to zerk on each hit. I understand what you are saying but the fact remains that the chances do not change and are constant. Over an infinite set of samples you should statistically zerk on 30% of them, but this does not mean that you zerk 30% of the time in every fight. You could zerk every hit in one fight and never zerk in other fights. It's all just chance. Don't assume that a 30% proc rate means that it will proc 30% of the time all the time.

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

this is RT, the land of fist BMs. the only axe user left is aasimar and he has r9

Why u gotta lie to the ppl of RT?

Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »

oxymoron

feathers > scales.

GTFO JC.

GV always has a -.05 interval advantage over TT90 fists. So apart from the hp loss you incur when using TT90 zerk fists, it also means you need to invest in an additional item to give you the -.05 interval. This would mean either the Tome or Nirvana Legggings or R9 Leggings. If you can afford those, I am pretty sure you can afford something more than TT90 zerk fists :P. Not to mention the charm burn it would cause.

Overall TT90 zerk fists on an archer is plain stupidity even if theres a chance that you could have higher DPS in certain occasions (provided you dont end up dying due to continuous zerk procs coupled with damage taken).

An average F2P archer who might wanna hit 5.0 wouldnt be able to afford the refines/shards/charms required to sustain 5.0 with zerk fists.

An archer who can afford the gear to keep him/her alive with zerk fists at 5.0 can probably afford nirvana fists/claws which would easily out-dps the TT90 zerk fists.

I do not see why theres even a discussion on this :P.

If he has full R9 + 10, why on earth would he need TT90 zerk fists? Nirvana claws/fists would easily out-dps it.