Expectation of Seeker within Squads

Elviron - Dreamweaver
Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
edited April 2011 in Seeker
I currently have 4x seeker and slowing rising. I see that we're HA and hence can take some amount of physical damage, have ranged dd skills, stance based DD/status skills and debuffs which favour skill based classes.

So what is the usual expectation from seekers within squads? Where do they fit with the whole co-op gameplay thing?

IN Delta I guess theyre limited to using the vortex skill.

How do they fair in comparison to other classes in instances like Eden, Brimstone, etc?

Can they be expected to tank bosses for other DDs? Are they able to keep aggro to themselves?
Post edited by Elviron - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    In terms of squad roles, Seekers are a lot like Blademasters really. They have a pretty good ability to keep doing AoEs fairly regularly, they can amplify damage, but more often and at an overall higher amount due to the Shatterer skills.

    In my opinion, in terms of taking damage, they are far better than Blademasters, simply because these days the only build most people accept from them is 3 Str 2 Dex, while a Seeker has the ability to put in Vit. Adrenal Numbness is what really makes Seekers tank well, and when tanking Seekers become all the more powerful against bosses because they can put their debuffs right back on them, but not all too often. But when you use QPQ on Wyvern and put up Vortex, you will find yourself dealing (if you can hold it up) 10k plus hits each time, making you even better at holding aggro. For holding aggro though, you will often find you need to spam skills, which isn't too difficult if you know the cooldowns.

    Seekers very literally are heavy armor mages, a DD that can deal massive damage and also take a lot of hits, and they truly are masters of PvE. Just as an example, at level 63, my Seeker did the Bloody Battle quest in under 8 minutes. I just got Bloodpaint, went over and threw up Vortex, and suddenly not only am I not needing pots, my mobs are done in just over two minutes. It's really quite amazing how well adapted Seekers are to PvE, especially since even on single mobs, you can kill them from a distance without them ever touching you.

    So, Seekers are DD/amp/off-tank for squads.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • Nova_Kane - Sanctuary
    Nova_Kane - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ACLucius - Archosaur wrote: »
    In terms of squad roles, Seekers are a lot like Blademasters really. They have a pretty good ability to keep doing AoEs fairly regularly, they can amplify damage, but more often and at an overall higher amount due to the Shatterer skills.

    In my opinion, in terms of taking damage, they are far better than Blademasters, simply because these days the only build most people accept from them is 3 Str 2 Dex, while a Seeker has the ability to put in Vit. Adrenal Numbness is what really makes Seekers tank well, and when tanking Seekers become all the more powerful against bosses because they can put their debuffs right back on them, but not all too often. But when you use QPQ on Wyvern and put up Vortex, you will find yourself dealing (if you can hold it up) 10k plus hits each time, making you even better at holding aggro. For holding aggro though, you will often find you need to spam skills, which isn't too difficult if you know the cooldowns.

    Seekers very literally are heavy armor mages, a DD that can deal massive damage and also take a lot of hits, and they truly are masters of PvE. Just as an example, at level 63, my Seeker did the Bloody Battle quest in under 8 minutes. I just got Bloodpaint, went over and threw up Vortex, and suddenly not only am I not needing pots, my mobs are done in just over two minutes. It's really quite amazing how well adapted Seekers are to PvE, especially since even on single mobs, you can kill them from a distance without them ever touching you.

    So, Seekers are DD/amp/off-tank for squads.

    ^This. Just... all of it.

    I will say this. if you are in a squad, and do not want to tank on bosses, don't skill spam, and dont, for the love of god, throw up Vortex.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The natural disaster.. I follow in the footsteps of Alec...
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    So if am understanding right, Vortex is probably a must if you want to hold aggro or actually go through PQ mobs quickly or to even compare with the other traditional DDs. But this also means, unlike your mage/BMs/other DDs you will be drinking mana charms instead of mana pots? Is this correct?

    So what sort of level progression is recommended for Vortex? Just max it out asap or level it gradually? Do MP foods keep it up forever or is a mana charm absolutely necessary (seeing as how the mana pool is kinda low)?
  • Cadeal - Dreamweaver
    Cadeal - Dreamweaver Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So if am understanding right, Vortex is probably a must if you want to hold aggro or actually go through PQ mobs quickly or to even compare with the other traditional DDs. But this also means, unlike your mage/BMs/other DDs you will be drinking mana charms instead of mana pots? Is this correct?

    So what sort of level progression is recommended for Vortex? Just max it out asap or level it gradually? Do MP foods keep it up forever or is a mana charm absolutely necessary (seeing as how the mana pool is kinda low)?

    I've been able to maintain vortex on the Contract MP Pots (Chi poltice of death) pretty effectively. It takes some timing, and an arcane hat; but in my opinion, a slight alteration from the pages of an archer's hand book, is a better option to eating mass mp food, or devouring MP charms. I only sacrifice a small amount of hp, which can easily be made up for with Cits if I so see fit, but I guess it could be said that I could get a similar effect if I use MP gems in an HP helm too, but would rather not.

    As far as leveling it, I fully intend to leave it at level 1 until my mp gets high enough to maintain it effectively without a charm. Its damage is impressive enough to tear aggro, and hold it until I stop spinning from a lvl 95 veno, so currently I'm satisfied.
  • vristion
    vristion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So if am understanding right, Vortex is probably a must if you want to hold aggro or actually go through PQ mobs quickly or to even compare with the other traditional DDs. But this also means, unlike your mage/BMs/other DDs you will be drinking mana charms instead of mana pots? Is this correct?

    So what sort of level progression is recommended for Vortex? Just max it out asap or level it gradually? Do MP foods keep it up forever or is a mana charm absolutely necessary (seeing as how the mana pool is kinda low)?

    Vortex would cost you alot if you sit in a constant spin, say in a PQ zhen... but in later levels, say in FC, or other instance where you could pull many at once, it is your forte...well all of you AoEs are.. But for an average FC or BH, i could go the entire day and never tick my charm, as long as I use mana food. which i by far cheaper.


    With lvl 9 vortex, we are effectivelly able to do large pulls without a BM, or in some cases the need of a cleric (ive done pulls where the mobs were dead before the cleric even caught up to us... )

    You won't be just stuck as a Vortex bot tho, keep in mind all of our AoEs can do considerable damage, been a few times I would edge blur + spam AoEs, or even edge blur + cloud + vortex...
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    i hate it when the bosses stun or sleep you out of vortex =/ Looking forward to be in more BH100 squads to test myself soon. Hard to say atm with lower BHs since everyone kills them so fast
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • Sverdet - Heavens Tear
    Sverdet - Heavens Tear Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Believe it or not, with the help of Vortex, a lvl 80 Seeker can tank Pole in Wraithgate as long as Cleric heals, and there's a 2nd Cleric/Mystic to heal rest of the squad (or if rest of squad has HP Pots for his AoE).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sverdet ~ Lvl 100 Seeker; Rank 8
  • vristion
    vristion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Actually for pole/nob i like to CC quid, and just do some straight up DD... I did all my BH69s with just my cleric on auto piolot.. And would quid the debuffs right back to em... I do that now on full FC runs on that debuffing bosses.
  • ACLucius - Archosaur
    ACLucius - Archosaur Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Vortex is very easy to maintain with Herb Yuanxiao. My seeker currently has only 1449 MP and I don't even need to use them right after the cooldown at level 3 Vortex. Luckily 60-80 is fairly quick if you just do zhen. After you get to doing FC, you only really need to use Vortex if either you are the tank in the pulls or in the exp room. Aside from either zhen or big mob pulls that you need to drop quickly, or for use to keep aggro on bosses, I don't see any need to really use it in PvE. Still, after 75 it is easy to maintain with Herb Yuanxiao. Just keep your finger down on your Herb hotkey and you won't ever have problems with it until you run out of them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Didn't get the rest of it, but apparently I am the "destroyer of sin haters" as well.
  • Shadane - Heavens Tear
    Shadane - Heavens Tear Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Spamming skills and vortex will help you keep agro alright, but look out for the more aggressive DD who cluelessly blast off their highest DD skills one right after another; sins for example are "masters" at wrenching agro off even the best barbs sometimes. When I'm tanking with my seeker I usually ask the squad to hang on until I can get my debuffs off and launch vortex. Also, to help with agro; get a good genie that can regen fast and slap Alpha Male on it; I've had to blast that off to keep an overeager sin or archer alive lol. So yes, we can tank, but rest of squad has to bear in mind that unlike barbs, we do not have any agro skills per se (that is, ones that deliberatly draw aggression onto you), and must rely on damage to hoard a boss's attention.

    That being said, to give you an idea of what seekers can do, my seeker just hit 80 and tanked her first FF. We had a cleric, a mystic, two sins, and a psy. Great for healing, but minus some critical buffs. Still, I ate more mp pots than I did hp, mainly due to vortexing gangs of mobs. So yes, build yourself right, get good gear, keep some pots (and maybe charm) on hand, and you'll find yourself tanking stuff even without bm or barb buffs lol (although they do help XD). Finding I can tank FF now has me wanting to see if I can tank Pole for my bh, as I've heard some seekers can.
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Been running FF with Seekers for a while now and I can say that they are GODS when it comes mob pulls. LOL... sometimes I find myself wondering what I'm even doing here since 95% of the time, a similar lvl Seeker kills everything before I can even lock on for a aoe stun. b:surrender

    Against bosses... well the jury is still out (IMO) on their aggro holding skills... particularly vs the aps classes out there. I'm currently only a measly 2.86 aps and when I spark, no Seeker regardless of their level has thus far been able to take aggro from me.... vortex or no vortex. Also, Seekers seem to run into the same problems that most BMs do when it comes to dealing with magic mobs such as the big hall pull. Not surprising really as they are the bane of the HA classes in general. Seekers do have the advantage over BMs in the HP department though since their builds allow them to stat more for vitality than us.

    Once Seekers become more common and squads get more accustomed to what the class can do, I can't think of any instances/dungeons where people would say no to a seeker.
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Shadane - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Finding I can tank FF now has me wanting to see if I can tank Pole for my bh, as I've heard some seekers can.

    The challenges in tanking bosses in FF where you really only have to worry about special attacks (MIGHTY WHIRLING SLASH !!) which are easy enough to avoid, compared to tanking Pole... is worlds apart. Barbs have skills which interrupts Pole's aoes and so on but I guess you tanking Pole will depend heavily on how pro the cleric is with the heals and (especially) purify. Or else you're just one debuff away from being 2-shot road kill.

    I know that as a BM I avoided tanking Pole in my 80s (I could solo him now though), so perhaps you could try it and let us know how you did. b:victory
  • So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The challenges in tanking bosses in FF where you really only have to worry about special attacks (MIGHTY WHIRLING SLASH !!) which are easy enough to avoid, compared to tanking Pole... is worlds apart. Barbs have skills which interrupts Pole's aoes and so on but I guess you tanking Pole will depend heavily on how pro the cleric is with the heals and (especially) purify. Or else you're just one debuff away from being 2-shot road kill.

    I know that as a BM I avoided tanking Pole in my 80s (I could solo him now though), so perhaps you could try it and let us know how you did. b:victory

    When polearm or any boss debuffs u for tht matter, as a seeker, use quid pro quo to transfer the debuff bk to em..
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    So_Sick_Er - Raging Tide wrote: »
    When polearm or any boss debuffs u for tht matter, as a seeker, use quid pro quo to transfer the debuff bk to em..

    True... but with the near 3 minute cool down for that skill, you better be able to kill him fast after that.
  • brent40
    brent40 Posts: 49
    edited April 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    True... but with the near 3 minute cool down for that skill, you better be able to kill him fast after that.


    As a BM, I hope you know what CC means, there are a couple of skills a seeker can do like a BM in this regard.
  • Hexalot - Dreamweaver
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    brent40 wrote: »
    As a BM, I hope you know what CC means, there are a couple of skills a seeker can do like a BM in this regard.

    The canceling glitch ?

    I've never heard of Seekers having a similar ability.
  • brent40
    brent40 Posts: 49
    edited April 2011
    Hexalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The canceling glitch ?

    I've never heard of Seekers having a similar ability.

    They do for quid, is nice at bosses that send negative effects regularlly... also once in TW I sat through a three way veno gank, every effect they sent id transfer it to one of the other venos, so in the end, two venos killed one of their own. (eventually my CDs on every thing cought up an i was wtfpwnd by the other two)


    also for void (minus) the stun effect... works well in FC at the bishop mobs in the hall...where you usually use to need a BM b:surrender And ive used it to escape close combat encounters from BM/sin ganks (like a BM leap)
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Shadane - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Spamming skills and vortex will help you keep agro alright, but look out for the more aggressive DD who cluelessly blast off their highest DD skills one right after another; sins for example are "masters" at wrenching agro off even the best barbs sometimes. When I'm tanking with my seeker I usually ask the squad to hang on until I can get my debuffs off and launch vortex. Also, to help with agro; get a good genie that can regen fast and slap Alpha Male on it; I've had to blast that off to keep an overeager sin or archer alive lol. So yes, we can tank, but rest of squad has to bear in mind that unlike barbs, we do not have any agro skills per se (that is, ones that deliberatly draw aggression onto you), and must rely on damage to hoard a boss's attention.

    That being said, to give you an idea of what seekers can do, my seeker just hit 80 and tanked her first FF. We had a cleric, a mystic, two sins, and a psy. Great for healing, but minus some critical buffs. Still, I ate more mp pots than I did hp, mainly due to vortexing gangs of mobs. So yes, build yourself right, get good gear, keep some pots (and maybe charm) on hand, and you'll find yourself tanking stuff even without bm or barb buffs lol (although they do help XD). Finding I can tank FF now has me wanting to see if I can tank Pole for my bh, as I've heard some seekers can.
    your too nice u know that?
    some pple dont learn till u let them die >_>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • Omea - Lost City
    Omea - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    How to be useful in a squad (any class): save the cleric
    How come, if someone asks a question in a forum, at least 13/20 posts answers the question in the same exact way, 5/20 word the exact same answer differently and 2/20 say something completely unrelated to both life and death?

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