Assasian pvp and Gear Thresholds

Yui_ - Harshlands
Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
edited April 2011 in Mystic
Let me start off by saying Mystic pvp is awesome! It's dynamic and exciting and have already had countless epic battles with numerous other players.

But one thing still seems to plague me often. The Assassin.

Now I know assassins are a no skill class that is grotesquely OP but that does not stop them from making up 80% of my pvp encounters. (Yesterday in Silver pool I ran out of safe zone to see myself and 9 other sins fighting amongst each other, needless to say I stuck outb:chuckle)

Now my question is at what gear level should I be at to start being able to fight back against the ones with the higher + r8? (Which is a lot of them)

As it stands no I die so quickly I don't even see any damage in my log before I fall over dead.

I have about 5k hp and 4.5k Physical defense unbuffed. At what gear threshold should I start being able to fight back against them?

Are there any pieces of gear I should consecrate on acquiring 1st to more greatly increase my survivability?

And to my other Mystic friends, what tactics do you find best to counter a sin in waiting?
i.e. using Salvation or having Chihyu out with auto stun on.

Thank you everyone for your input and help and look forward to your experiences and responses. b:victory
YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
Post edited by Yui_ - Harshlands on

Comments

  • Asthariel - Dreamweaver
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Salvation Leech ftw ! Then knockback + thicket, or thicket + knockback works too xD If you can throw in Rapid Growth it's nice too. But alone agaisnt 9 sins, there's nothing anyone could do xD If you leech Sally asap, they won't be able to do their tele-stun move which is the most annoying thing a sin is able to do (except stealth ofc). The shield she will give you will buy you enough time during which you won't take damage, to knockback+ thicket them.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8149449007&dateline=1299646202[/SIGPIC]
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Well if they tele+stun, you will not have time to leech, so I recommend you get a anti-stun skill from your genie first, or maybe absolute domain to keep you alive for a few seconds until you get out off stun, them knockback>leech>NV>knockback.... maybe throw a gale force or thicket in between to try to silence them.
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Salvation Leech ftw ! Then knockback + thicket, or thicket + knockback works too xD If you can throw in Rapid Growth it's nice too. But alone agaisnt 9 sins, there's nothing anyone could do xD If you leech Sally asap, they won't be able to do their tele-stun move which is the most annoying thing a sin is able to do (except stealth ofc). The shield she will give you will buy you enough time during which you won't take damage, to knockback+ thicket them.

    Sounds like an awsome plan. How much phy. Defense do you have though? Because it seems a lot of the sins can kill me before I even tap the skill. How much should I be shooting for?
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • Mysticarella - Lost City
    Mysticarella - Lost City Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I dont think that any + pdef will make you survive a sin attacking from stealth, sin are OP and thats what it is. We are an arcane class and theres not much we can do about it. The best thing against any PvP is to be the first to hit, against sins you can get some detection potions and surprise attack them.

    I say: get some good genie skills, detection potions and always have rez buff especially demon rez b:victory
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Mysticarella - Lost City wrote: »
    I dont think that any + pdef will make you survive a sin attacking from stealth, sin are OP and thats what it is. We are an arcane class and theres not much we can do about it. The best thing against any PvP is to be the first to hit, against sins you can get some detection potions and surprise attack them.

    I say: get some good genie skills, detection potions and always have rez buff especially demon rez b:victory

    Gottchya. So gear up all you want but it won't help at all.

    And just try and 1 shot the sin before they get you.

    I gotta say it all sounds rather depressing, but I suppose we'll have to do what we can.

    I've been playing with the idea of keeping the energy leech Salvation buff on yourself at all times since it lasts for 30 seconds. The only problem with this is that it will be very mana cost heavy and will require you to generate a spark every 30 seconds.

    But it would make sure you have a stronger buff on yourself to try and survive the sins 1st onslaught.
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • ResMePls - Heavens Tear
    ResMePls - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,349 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Wings of cloud charger definately would help.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.
  • RouxLouka - Dreamweaver
    RouxLouka - Dreamweaver Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Chihyu stun would make more sense. If they stealth and stun you, you won't be able to leech at all. Same with tele-stun. Salvation buff would also be useless if they stun you again. Sin/5aps damage is just too broken.

    Best I can think of is Stun>Barrier>Knockback>Thicket/Gale Force>Hope it sticks>Sleep>Eruption>Extreme Poison>One shot them. If they try to use AD, keep nuking them since they won't wake up if they don't take damage.

    Just because you knockback, doesn't mean they can't go back to you in an instant. If they start at stealth, they have 2 + force stealth. If they start with telestun, they still have 1 + force steatlh. Thicket channeling is still slow enough for them to use either one.
    /quit.

    </3 All packs/Awful community.
  • Asthariel - Dreamweaver
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Thicket channeling isn't slow at all when you have -42% chan and -62% with Rapid.
    As for the spark problem with Leech, the fact I'm sage helps me alot, withe chi skill (well, there's Cloud Eruption on genie, and I also have it, but combined with the sage chi skills, it's much chi at once in no time).
    And the 9 sec stun immunity I get from sage Leech does helps alot too. If you have a good wep and the sin isn't over geared, 9 secs is so enough to kill it. Well Deaden IS annoying, I admit. But during the time you don't have the Leech immunity, you still have the genie and apoths. Also, if you have Expel, it may be a great life saver in the case they manage to land a stun on you before you can Leech or use whatever to prevent being stunned.
    I don't like using the three first summons alot for something else than leeching in pvp. They do need to reach the target, plus they are a very easy and quick one shot (especially if it stands next to you and the person use an aoe. I had that once, it didn't do much damage to me, and it OSed the summon xD). Their buffs are so much more useful !
    Concerning pdef, I have around 5k self buffed only (don't have sage version yet though) and 4.5k hp (493 magic here... so even with decent refines still got fairly low hp). I also have 10k-11k mag atk unbuffed (can reach something like ~35k with Rapid, Spark and SM leech).
    As for the cape I don't have a Cloudcharger but I have the Lunar Cape with pdef (Glorious Robe:Torment) with 3 immac garnets in it.
    I don't think adding a crapton of pdef from your gear would be that much useful since at around 5k+ it gets diminishing returns. You would need to have severe bonuses stacked on you to decrease the damage you take from sins that much.
    I can reach 10.5k pdef with buffs and Devil's leech, but I never tested that in pvp to see the damage difference, cause like I said I mostly use Sally's leech and Nature's Barrier as defensive measures in pvp (just soloed Krimson "tanking" with myself with this combo :p So you get an idea how those defenses are quite powerful)
    To me, your chances against a sin depend mostly on your abilities and specially if you can react before you get tele-stunned. Usually, when any arcane person gets tele-stunned-ganked, their only chance is reacting fast and hitting Expel. Otherwise no amount of pdef from gear will save you since their stun lasts long enough for them to stab you to death, specially if they spark and/or have high aps.
    Just a guess, but beside your defensive skills, genie and apoths, the only thing from gear that could make quite a difference would be defense lvls.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8149449007&dateline=1299646202[/SIGPIC]
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Thicket channeling isn't slow at all when you have -42% chan and -62% with Rapid.
    As for the spark problem with Leech, the fact I'm sage helps me alot, withe chi skill (well, there's Cloud Eruption on genie, and I also have it, but combined with the sage chi skills, it's much chi at once in no time).
    And the 9 sec stun immunity I get from sage Leech does helps alot too. If you have a good wep and the sin isn't over geared, 9 secs is so enough to kill it. Well Deaden IS annoying, I admit. But during the time you don't have the Leech immunity, you still have the genie and apoths. Also, if you have Expel, it may be a great life saver in the case they manage to land a stun on you before you can Leech or use whatever to prevent being stunned.
    I don't like using the three first summons alot for something else than leeching in pvp. They do need to reach the target, plus they are a very easy and quick one shot (especially if it stands next to you and the person use an aoe. I had that once, it didn't do much damage to me, and it OSed the summon xD). Their buffs are so much more useful !
    Concerning pdef, I have around 5k self buffed only (don't have sage version yet though) and 4.5k hp (493 magic here... so even with decent refines still got fairly low hp). I also have 10k-11k mag atk unbuffed (can reach something like ~35k with Rapid, Spark and SM leech).
    As for the cape I don't have a Cloudcharger but I have the Lunar Cape with pdef (Glorious Robe:Torment) with 3 immac garnets in it.
    I don't think adding a crapton of pdef from your gear would be that much useful since at around 5k+ it gets diminishing returns. You would need to have severe bonuses stacked on you to decrease the damage you take from sins that much.
    I can reach 10.5k pdef with buffs and Devil's leech, but I never tested that in pvp to see the damage difference, cause like I said I mostly use Sally's leech and Nature's Barrier as defensive measures in pvp (just soloed Krimson "tanking" with myself with this combo :p So you get an idea how those defenses are quite powerful)
    To me, your chances against a sin depend mostly on your abilities and specially if you can react before you get tele-stunned. Usually, when any arcane person gets tele-stunned-ganked, their only chance is reacting fast and hitting Expel. Otherwise no amount of pdef from gear will save you since their stun lasts long enough for them to stab you to death, specially if they spark and/or have high aps.
    Just a guess, but beside your defensive skills, genie and apoths, the only thing from gear that could make quite a difference would be defense lvls.

    I agree with most of this. I've been testing Using Chiyu and Salvation and have found salivations buff to be much more helpful against sins. The stun from Chiyu is nice but the fact of the matter is that you will actually die before the stun hits the sin even though he will cast it instantly, sins just hit that hard. Even with sub par gear.

    I've found that with bolth of Salvations buffs on myself I can absorb the 1st few hits of the sin, which gives me enough time to pop expel or Absolute Domain followed by Bramble tornado and Thicket for the win.

    I just spent an hour pking at west and only 1 sin managed to kill me in that time out of the many that were out there.
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    If the sin is R9, no amount of defense you get will help you, short of getting all your gears +10/11 or higher.

    Most sins have R8 +5 or so; my mystic has 6.4k hp and 7.2k p. def atm, and with expel I can usually survive most encounters with the typical sin. Anything +10 or higher and I start dying before I can react.

    If I'm fully buffed barb/cleric I can usually handle +10 R8 sins.

    Refined endgame Sins absolutely destroy clerics, wizzies, and mystics, unless you are extremely well-geared unfortunately.

    GOOD thing though is that the majority of sins have mediocre gears and mediocre pvp skills
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Dalesr - Harshlands
    Dalesr - Harshlands Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    how about get buffed before you go out? my mystic is at 10k pdef fully buffed atm and I think I have less pdef unbuffed than you. I haven't really had much trouble against sins. You should aim for 12-15k pdef fully buffed endgame. Get rid of that sky demons pearl ur using and get Cube Neck +10. Refine your Warsong belt (made by Szol) to +10 in the meantime.

    Uhm... mystics for solo PVP??? uhmmm I don't think so, not with sins around. World PvP is filled with random scrubs in stealth waitin for you to be busy and hit. in TW it aint that easy to do so.
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Dalesr - Harshlands wrote: »
    how about get buffed before you go out? my mystic is at 10k pdef fully buffed atm and I think I have less pdef unbuffed than you. I haven't really had much trouble against sins. You should aim for 12-15k pdef fully buffed endgame. Get rid of that sky demons pearl ur using and get Cube Neck +10. Refine your Warsong belt (made by Szol) to +10 in the meantime.

    Uhm... mystics for solo PVP??? uhmmm I don't think so, not with sins around. World PvP is filled with random scrubs in stealth waitin for you to be busy and hit. in TW it aint that easy to do so.

    Of course Sneakyheals this would be best if you could always be buffed. But unfortunately there isn't always spare BM's and Clerics nearby for your disposal.

    But those buffs are way sexy. b:dirty
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • RouxLouka - Dreamweaver
    RouxLouka - Dreamweaver Posts: 511 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Yui_ - Harshlands wrote: »
    Of course Sneakyheals this would be best if you could always be buffed. But unfortunately there isn't always spare BM's and Clerics nearby for your disposal.

    Sure they are. Everyone is allowed to multi-client 2 characters on one computer. That's more than enough to fully buff yourself. It's not that hard to hyper a character to 60 to max their buffs.
    /quit.

    </3 All packs/Awful community.
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    You could always halt your pet (devil) a few meters from you. Leave him on defend with stun default skill. That may save you after initial attack which is probably a stun. Barring a one shot. I do that in cube bored rooms etc. If someone attacks me, my pet immediately stuns them.
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You could always halt your pet (devil) a few meters from you. Leave him on defend with stun default skill. That may save you after initial attack which is probably a stun. Barring a one shot. I do that in cube bored rooms etc. If someone attacks me, my pet immediately stuns them.

    I always do that. But smart sins can use Maze steps before hand to negate it or simply just glitch you out and kill you in the same second they would have been stunned. (It's happened to me.)

    But as my Phy defense has been rising lately I've been noticing a very nice increase in survivability against sins. There's still some that can glitch my charm out but I've definitely been noticing an increased success rate tanks to my Verdant shell modifier buff.

    I'm not there yet. But I can definitely see a ray of hope for the class at endgame against sins.

    And to the above poster about multi clienting for buffs that's simply brilliant and I will do that for sure. (My cat shop will have to wait)
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • Nyxyo - Harshlands
    Nyxyo - Harshlands Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    stop make up things..weren't 9 sins ..maybe 3 or so only one against you rank9 was me... only time you hit/kill me was when i was already fighting 1 or 2 other ppls... that is your answer....

    rank9 broke game ..is meant to be Op so is nothing you can do against it 1 on 1 specially vs sins ..... pure dex+40%critical+GoF that activates so much is reliable...makes you 1-2 hits 3 if you are extremely lucky...

    yap rank9 broke game and i still got it because... i like to winb:surrender
  • Asthariel - Dreamweaver
    Asthariel - Dreamweaver Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »
    stop make up things..weren't 9 sins ..maybe 3 or so only one against you rank9 was me... only time you hit/kill me was when i was already fighting 1 or 2 other ppls... that is your answer....

    rank9 broke game ..is meant to be Op so is nothing you can do against it 1 on 1 specially vs sins ..... pure dex+40%critical+GoF that activates so much is reliable...makes you 1-2 hits 3 if you are extremely lucky...

    yap rank9 broke game and i still got it because... i like to winb:surrender

    Well, 9 sins or not, when you're alone facing several sin, I don't think you take your time to count them, you just try to save your butt asap b:surrender
    I love to win too you know, I freaking hate losing to be honest. But even if I had the money I'm not even sure I'd be R9 with everything +12'd... It would so feel with when you used the actionreplay in a game and you have everything x999 and OP that can wtfpwn even the ultimate bosses supposed to be extremely hard to kill. I've already done that, and I was soooo bored -.- It's so unfun that I had nerfed myself a bit so it wasn't that easy anymore. What's the fun in facerolling anything and anyone in half a sec ?

    And yeah I agree about the glitch they can do :S Two days ago I was in TW against the most powerful faction of my server. They were so numerous that I lagged like I never did in a TW. They were at our base in less than a minute. So all of us at our base... I managed to gank a bm in 2 shots and there a sin got on me so fast that I had barely any time to try to hit AD that I was already dead xD It really felt like a OS, and my charm didn't even ticked. I looked at the damage log and saw 5 hits -.- and those hits weren't too hard. If he didn't have 5 aps, I so could have survived between AD, heal, Sally leech (I always keep her out in case), and knockback... b:surrender
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8149449007&dateline=1299646202[/SIGPIC]
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »
    stop make up things..weren't 9 sins ..maybe 3 or so only one against you rank9 was me... only time you hit/kill me was when i was already fighting 1 or 2 other ppls... that is your answer....

    rank9 broke game ..is meant to be Op so is nothing you can do against it 1 on 1 specially vs sins ..... pure dex+40%critical+GoF that activates so much is reliable...makes you 1-2 hits 3 if you are extremely lucky...

    yap rank9 broke game and i still got it because... i like to winb:surrender


    Of course rank 9 is OP lol, why else would you spend all that money on your character.

    And sorry I only killed you that one time sport, my stealth button is still broken atm.
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • Nyxyo - Harshlands
    Nyxyo - Harshlands Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    you no need be sorry lmao.. i answer your question...how to kill a rank9 sin?
    answer : when he fight other pplsb:laugh

    on a side note spells from earthguard are horrible laggy ...my video card cant really that animations...i need close all effects to be able to move aroundb:angry
  • Iseria - Harshlands
    Iseria - Harshlands Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Yui_ - Harshlands wrote: »
    why else would you spend all that money on your character

    You speak as if you haven't spent as much money as him already lol
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Iseria - Harshlands wrote: »
    You speak as if you haven't spent as much money as him already lol

    There's just a "slight" difference in the cost of rank 8 and rank 9. b:chuckle
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    "slight" ??? srsly??? -.-
  • Yui_ - Harshlands
    Yui_ - Harshlands Posts: 151 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands wrote: »
    "slight" ??? srsly??? -.-

    I was trying to be gentle. ;P
    YuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYuiYui

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